Cook wanted Apple and Google to be 'deep, deep partners'

Posted:
in General Discussion

Apple CEO Tim Cook talked to Google CEO Sundar Pichai about the tech giants working together in 2018, Google's ongoing antitrust trial revealed, with notes revealing a willingness on both sides to make the deal work.

Google pays to be the default search in Safari for iOS
Google pays to be the default search in Safari for iOS



Google has paid Apple billions of dollars to be the default search in Safari, and the Justice Department's antitrust trial against Alphabet has delved deep into the relationship between the two companies. In one piece of evidence shown in court on Monday, it seems the two were very comfortable with the deal, and could've done more.

Multiple passages were briefly shown in court, according to The Verge, with little time to accurately transcribe them completely. The stretches that did get copied down indicate that the two CEOs of Apple and Google intended to deepen the work between the firms.

The notes, stemming from Google, revolved around a two-hour meeting in 2018, with Cook and Pichai in attendance alongside other executives.

In the noted sections, it is said that "Tim's overall message to Google was I imagine us as being able to be deep deep partners; deeply connected where our services end and yours begin and sees no natural impediment to us doing more together."

Cook knew there was a past between the companies but "doesn't feel encumbered by it and wants to figure out how we work more deeply together." Cook also said this would also involve sharing "information better," and apparently stressed this point a few times.

The Apple CEO also apparently told Pichai "we can take this slowly," with "no regrets over how we have handled things to date."

In another note, the Google CEO expressed that the company would "love to see the iPhone numbers grow and will work in good faith to answer the queries you send us."

One last note from an unknown speaker states "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company. There is a reluctance on both parts about sharing things. It would be great to hurdle over that."

"We've been back in a good stead for awhile; build a Google app that really builds a great experience (Sundar). We could extend the terms of the deal," the last of the typed notes reads.

While it is unclear exactly who said what, or whether they are direct quotes from the conversation or summed-up points, the notes do at least show there was a lot of good faith between Apple and Google at that 2018 meeting.

The trial continues.

Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 2 of 35
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,607member
    Evidence of precisely what I've been saying about the relationship between Apple and Google. They haven't been the enemies some here would like to believe they are for years, working together in many areas.

    Some fans might hate, be silly, and be destructive, but the two companies respect each other and have for a long time.  I know that's not what some of us want to hear as it ruins long-time perceptions of Apple vs Google. 
    edited November 2023 muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFellerjony0
  • Reply 3 of 35
    Two large companies with competing products and services, and on friendly terms — is this a bad thing?
    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFellerjony0
  • Reply 4 of 35
    Frankly Google iOS apps are awful. They look way too much like Android apps often using UX that doesn’t make sense on iOS.
    dope_ahminewilliamlondon9secondkox2watto_cobradarkvader
  • Reply 5 of 35
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,754member
    gatorguy said:
    Evidence of precisely what I've been saying about the relationship between Apple and Google. They haven't been the enemies some here would like to believe they are for years, working together in many areas.

    Some fans might hate, be silly, and be destructive, but the two companies respect each other and have for a long time.  
    While I dislike Google's fundamental business model, and think they've put some people with very questionable ethics in charge (e.g. Andy Rubin), which has caused them to choose the low road (cloning + litigation) rather than the high road (licensing/purchasing) to obtain existing technology they need for their products, I certainly respect a lot of technology they've created just as I'm sure people at Apple do. Just like Apple, they hire brilliant people and enable them to do amazing things.

    I just wish that, at a fundamental level, their business was driven by purely that technology advancing humanity and making the world a better place. It would be interesting to count the man hours they've spent analyzing and developing technology to better gather information about people and process it for the purposes of making their advertising business more lucrative. And looking at places where they could have made their services more efficient and easy to use, but didn't because it would mean they get less data from people. Though it's certainly not as bad as social media companies using psychology to keep people locked in and addicted to their services.

    Anyway, nothing is black and white. There are great people at both Google and Apple, I just personally don't believe surveillance Capitalism is a good path forward, and I think the ethics Jobs imparted at Apple have kept it off that path as much as possible.
    Alex1NFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrachasmjony0
  • Reply 6 of 35
    Frankly Google iOS apps are awful. They look way too much like Android apps often using UX that doesn’t make sense on iOS.
    I agree. Only, you probably mean the UI, not UX @InspiredCode ;
    edited November 2023 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 35
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,607member
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    Evidence of precisely what I've been saying about the relationship between Apple and Google. They haven't been the enemies some here would like to believe they are for years, working together in many areas.

    Some fans might hate, be silly, and be destructive, but the two companies respect each other and have for a long time.  
    While I dislike Google's fundamental business model, and think they've put some people with very questionable ethics in charge (e.g. Andy Rubin), which has caused them to choose the low road (cloning + litigation) rather than the high road (licensing/purchasing) to obtain existing technology they need for their products, I certainly respect a lot of technology they've created just as I'm sure people at Apple do. Just like Apple, they hire brilliant people and enable them to do amazing things.

    I just wish that, at a fundamental level, their business was driven by purely that technology advancing humanity and making the world a better place. It would be interesting to count the man hours they've spent analyzing and developing technology to better gather information about people and process it for the purposes of making their advertising business more lucrative. And looking at places where they could have made their services more efficient and easy to use, but didn't because it would mean they get less data from people. Though it's certainly not as bad as social media companies using psychology to keep people locked in and addicted to their services.

    Anyway, nothing is black and white. There are great people at both Google and Apple, I just personally don't believe surveillance Capitalism is a good path forward, and I think the ethics Jobs imparted at Apple have kept it off that path as much as possible.
    In fairness, the income from ad services has funded a lot of technologies and advancements that benefit society at large, more so than Google:

    Health and human longetivity
    Disease research and treatments
    Genomic analysis
    Cancer detection
    Flood forecasting
    Climate and weather prediction
    Research into improving construction and processes
    Wildfire detection and prediction
    Quantum computing
    Robotics,
    Coding languages
    Open-source software development and standards....

    It's a very long list. 

    edited November 2023 muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 8 of 35
  • Reply 9 of 35
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,754member
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    Evidence of precisely what I've been saying about the relationship between Apple and Google. They haven't been the enemies some here would like to believe they are for years, working together in many areas.

    Some fans might hate, be silly, and be destructive, but the two companies respect each other and have for a long time.  
    While I dislike Google's fundamental business model, and think they've put some people with very questionable ethics in charge (e.g. Andy Rubin), which has caused them to choose the low road (cloning + litigation) rather than the high road (licensing/purchasing) to obtain existing technology they need for their products, I certainly respect a lot of technology they've created just as I'm sure people at Apple do. Just like Apple, they hire brilliant people and enable them to do amazing things.

    I just wish that, at a fundamental level, their business was driven by purely that technology advancing humanity and making the world a better place. It would be interesting to count the man hours they've spent analyzing and developing technology to better gather information about people and process it for the purposes of making their advertising business more lucrative. And looking at places where they could have made their services more efficient and easy to use, but didn't because it would mean they get less data from people. Though it's certainly not as bad as social media companies using psychology to keep people locked in and addicted to their services.

    Anyway, nothing is black and white. There are great people at both Google and Apple, I just personally don't believe surveillance Capitalism is a good path forward, and I think the ethics Jobs imparted at Apple have kept it off that path as much as possible.
    In fairness, the income from ad services has funded a lot of technologies and advancements that benefit society at large, more so than Google:

    Health and human longetivity
    Disease research and treatments
    Genomic analysis
    Cancer detection
    Flood forecasting
    Climate and weather prediction
    Research into improving construction and processes
    Wildfire detection and prediction
    Quantum computing
    Robotics,
    Coding languages
    Open-source software development and standards....

    It's a very long list. 

    Apple and many other tech companies (including ones I've worked for) are involved in those same areas too. These technologies aren't developed in a vacuum by any one person or company. Like I said, there are plenty of good people and good work being done by both companies, and I certainly respect that.

    That said, all of the positive work being done doesn't wipe from my mind the negative actions which turned me off Google in the first place. And I still don't believe that people should be surveilled without their consent and understanding of what it's being used for. If there's nothing to hide, just be completely open and honest about everything from the get go.

    9secondkox2FileMakerFellerwatto_cobraAlex1Nchasmjony0
  • Reply 10 of 35
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,607member
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    Evidence of precisely what I've been saying about the relationship between Apple and Google. They haven't been the enemies some here would like to believe they are for years, working together in many areas.

    Some fans might hate, be silly, and be destructive, but the two companies respect each other and have for a long time.  
    While I dislike Google's fundamental business model, and think they've put some people with very questionable ethics in charge (e.g. Andy Rubin), which has caused them to choose the low road (cloning + litigation) rather than the high road (licensing/purchasing) to obtain existing technology they need for their products, I certainly respect a lot of technology they've created just as I'm sure people at Apple do. Just like Apple, they hire brilliant people and enable them to do amazing things.

    I just wish that, at a fundamental level, their business was driven by purely that technology advancing humanity and making the world a better place. It would be interesting to count the man hours they've spent analyzing and developing technology to better gather information about people and process it for the purposes of making their advertising business more lucrative. And looking at places where they could have made their services more efficient and easy to use, but didn't because it would mean they get less data from people. Though it's certainly not as bad as social media companies using psychology to keep people locked in and addicted to their services.

    Anyway, nothing is black and white. There are great people at both Google and Apple, I just personally don't believe surveillance Capitalism is a good path forward, and I think the ethics Jobs imparted at Apple have kept it off that path as much as possible.
    In fairness, the income from ad services has funded a lot of technologies and advancements that benefit society at large, more so than Google:

    Health and human longetivity
    Disease research and treatments
    Genomic analysis
    Cancer detection
    Flood forecasting
    Climate and weather prediction
    Research into improving construction and processes
    Wildfire detection and prediction
    Quantum computing
    Robotics,
    Coding languages
    Open-source software development and standards....

    It's a very long list. 

    Apple and many other tech companies (including ones I've worked for) are involved in those same areas too. These technologies aren't developed in a vacuum by any one person or company. Like I said, there are plenty of good people and good work being done by both companies, and I certainly respect that.

    That said, all of the positive work being done doesn't wipe from my mind the negative actions which turned me off Google in the first place. And I still don't believe that people should be surveilled without their consent and understanding of what it's being used for. If there's nothing to hide, just be completely open and honest about everything from the get go.


    Understood, even if Apple is good with it, no one else is required to be.  Yours is a very valid opinion, and one that's shared by others. 
    edited November 2023 9secondkox2muthuk_vanalingamjony0
  • Reply 11 of 35
    Of course!

    that way Apple gets to look like the good guy, all privacy focused and stuff, while Google gets to keep their shady rep and steal your data. Then Apple can pay back a fraction of google’s default search payment, and squire the data Google stole from Apple customers. It’s a win-win!

    good ol’ Timmy. Always knew he was going places. 
  • Reply 12 of 35
    Frankly Google iOS apps are awful. They look way too much like Android apps often using UX that doesn’t make sense on iOS.
    I agree. Only, you probably mean the UI, not UX @InspiredCode ;
    No. The way it works. The navigating your way around, reward for effort, etc. android UX just sucks. Then there’s that nasty UI…
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 35
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,607member
    Of course!

    that way Apple gets to look like the good guy, all privacy focused and stuff, while Google gets to keep their shady rep and steal your data. Then Apple can pay back a fraction of google’s default search payment, and squire the data Google stole from Apple customers. It’s a win-win!

    good ol’ Timmy. Always knew he was going places. 
    Tim Cook could not make decisions like this without board approval or make it work without the other top executives all-in.  So Apple the company wanted the close partnership and not just Mr Cook operating in a vacuum. 
    edited November 2023 9secondkox2
  • Reply 14 of 35
    Google spies on its users and Apple does the opposite. How would that have worked on a deeper level?
    9secondkox2williamlondonwatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 15 of 35
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,607member
    Google spies on its users and Apple does the opposite. How would that have worked on a deeper level?
    Yeah, I think they had that all worked out, partnering on "deeper levels" for a few years now.   :)

    IMO a lot of the Apple good and Google evil stuff is just zealots being zealots.  The truth is more subtle.
    edited November 2023 muthuk_vanalingamjony0
  • Reply 16 of 35
    This is like hearing parents getting it on.

    Or at least foreplay with Cook’s feely-touchy vernacular. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 35
    auxioauxio Posts: 2,754member
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    auxio said:
    gatorguy said:
    Evidence of precisely what I've been saying about the relationship between Apple and Google. They haven't been the enemies some here would like to believe they are for years, working together in many areas.

    Some fans might hate, be silly, and be destructive, but the two companies respect each other and have for a long time.  
    While I dislike Google's fundamental business model, and think they've put some people with very questionable ethics in charge (e.g. Andy Rubin), which has caused them to choose the low road (cloning + litigation) rather than the high road (licensing/purchasing) to obtain existing technology they need for their products, I certainly respect a lot of technology they've created just as I'm sure people at Apple do. Just like Apple, they hire brilliant people and enable them to do amazing things.

    I just wish that, at a fundamental level, their business was driven by purely that technology advancing humanity and making the world a better place. It would be interesting to count the man hours they've spent analyzing and developing technology to better gather information about people and process it for the purposes of making their advertising business more lucrative. And looking at places where they could have made their services more efficient and easy to use, but didn't because it would mean they get less data from people. Though it's certainly not as bad as social media companies using psychology to keep people locked in and addicted to their services.

    Anyway, nothing is black and white. There are great people at both Google and Apple, I just personally don't believe surveillance Capitalism is a good path forward, and I think the ethics Jobs imparted at Apple have kept it off that path as much as possible.
    In fairness, the income from ad services has funded a lot of technologies and advancements that benefit society at large, more so than Google:

    Health and human longetivity
    Disease research and treatments
    Genomic analysis
    Cancer detection
    Flood forecasting
    Climate and weather prediction
    Research into improving construction and processes
    Wildfire detection and prediction
    Quantum computing
    Robotics,
    Coding languages
    Open-source software development and standards....

    It's a very long list. 

    Apple and many other tech companies (including ones I've worked for) are involved in those same areas too. These technologies aren't developed in a vacuum by any one person or company. Like I said, there are plenty of good people and good work being done by both companies, and I certainly respect that.

    That said, all of the positive work being done doesn't wipe from my mind the negative actions which turned me off Google in the first place. And I still don't believe that people should be surveilled without their consent and understanding of what it's being used for. If there's nothing to hide, just be completely open and honest about everything from the get go.


    Understood, even if Apple is good with it, no one else is required to be.  Yours is a very valid opinion, and one that's shared by others. 
    That's the difficult thing about a business: you can't always take sides in a debate, as much as the people within the company might like to, because you always need to consider whether it's your place to do so and how it could affect your business. For example, the "Android is a giant tracking device" slide from an internal presentation at Apple. I'm sure there are many people at Apple who feel the same way, but because Google is a business partner, they wouldn't officially make that statement.

    For myself personally, I've always been against exploitation of any kind. I feel like many in the tech industry are quite proud of being able to use their knowledge and relative intelligence (relative in the sense of knowing a lot about technology, but not so much about things like empathy and human connection) to pull one over on people who don't understand technology. Or are proud of finding ways of getting things for free using loopholes in the law, or lack of laws, no matter what it costs others. These are things I'll always call out as unfair and unethical because I'm on the side of humanity rather than the mindless pursuit of money (as Jobs put it, "Being the richest man in the cemetery doesn't interest me"). Building connections, respecting the work of, and being fair to others rather than trying to find ways to scam or exploit them. Setting good examples for future generations, and trying to leave the world in a better state than when you came into it.
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 18 of 35
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,296member
    Two large companies with competing products and services, and on friendly terms — is this a bad thing?
    Yes, like Google and Spotify?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 35
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,531member
    Back in 2007, when Microsoft was the 800 pound rabid squirrel in the room threatening (at least in the minds of analysts) to take over the smartphone business from the likes of Palm and blackberry, a deep^2 partnership between Apple and google seemed like salvation. Then yadda, yadda, yadda, and a deep^2 partnership is collusion between duopolists. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 35
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,305member
    Apple goes on and on about protecting our privacy, yet wants to deepen the ties to a company that completely disregards privacy. 
    williamlondondarkvader
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