iPhone sales drop in China's annual Singles Day sales

AppleInsider

Figures for November 11's Singles Day in China show that sales of the iPhone dropped 4% year over year -- while Huawei smartphones grew 66% in the same period.

iPhone 15 Pro colorful lineup

Apple has often done well on Singles Day -- also known as Double 11 because of the 11/11 date -- and according to Reuters, retailer JD.com reported selling $1.39 billion of Apple products in this year's event.

The sales data plus both Apple's percentage drop and Huawei's percentage increase were reported to Reuters by Counterpoint Research. Percentage comparisons are not especially useful without the full figures and JD.com did not break down its figures into even what were iPhones or other Apple devices.

Plus China's other main retailers have ceased reporting Singles Day sales figures, so it's not possible to compare this year and previous ones.

However, as well as Apple's iPhone having a 4% drop and Huawei seeing a 66% increase, Xiaomi also grew 28% year over year. So Chinese brands are at the very least ascending in the country, and it appears their sales are taking market share from Apple.

Xiaomi has reported that it sold $3.14 billion of what it described to Reuters as cumulative gross merchandise value. Neither Huawei nor Apple have commented.

Separately, Counterpoint Research has also reported that the iPhone 15 has helped global smartphone sales break their 27-month series of declines.

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Kierkegaarden

So this wasn’t an “iPhone” sales decrease, but rather a decrease throughout all products?  Was this also true for the other companies listed, and what was the increase from?  For example, if 66% is an increase from $1000, the number doesn’t seem as exciting.  Also, what did these increases cost?  If they slashed prices by 50%, they need 2x or more extra volume to maintain profit levels.  Reports like this are garbage because they only focus on a small less important part of the story.

gatorguy

Kierkegaarden said:

So this wasn’t an “iPhone” sales decrease, but rather a decrease throughout all products?  Was this also true for the other companies listed, and what was the increase from?  For example, if 66% is an increase from $1000, the number doesn’t seem as exciting.  Also, what did these increases cost?  If they slashed prices by 50%, they need 2x or more extra volume to maintain profit levels.  Reports like this are garbage because they only focus on a small less important part of the story.

https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idsIgG?now=true

Kierkegaarden

gatorguy said:

Kierkegaarden said:

So this wasn’t an “iPhone” sales decrease, but rather a decrease throughout all products?  Was this also true for the other companies listed, and what was the increase from?  For example, if 66% is an increase from $1000, the number doesn’t seem as exciting.  Also, what did these increases cost?  If they slashed prices by 50%, they need 2x or more extra volume to maintain profit levels.  Reports like this are garbage because they only focus on a small less important part of the story.

https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idsIgG?now=true

This doesn’t clarify anything — a third party research company (based in Hong Kong) is claiming yoy increases or decreases based on what exactly?  And discounting wasn’t discussed, which could have an impact on revenue.  The numbers don’t make sense because they’re not comparing the same things and they’re still just guessing in the end.

danox

Apple is doomed again?......

chasm

Kierkegaarden said:

This doesn’t clarify anything — a third party research company (based in Hong Kong) is claiming yoy increases or decreases based on what exactly?  And discounting wasn’t discussed, which could have an impact on revenue.  The numbers don’t make sense because they’re not comparing the same things and they’re still just guessing in the end.

I'm sorry you were unable to understand the story. This is about a particular social event/holiday in China where smartphones are traditionally sold as gifts. In previous years, the retailers told analysts like Counterpoint Research that Apple was the dominant brand customers wanted.

This year, according to that same system, it appears that Chinese-made brands have swung back into fashion among buyers. Why that happened isn't explained or theorized, it's just a report of which brands were most in demand based on retailer reports. There are lots of possible theories about why this happened, but that's not really covered in the story -- just reports of higher demand this time around from Chinese-made iPhone knockoffs rather than actual iPhones.

Apple sold a billion dollars' worth of iPhones during the period before the big day. Xiaomi says they sold $3 billion, but that's cumulative across all their products. The point of this article is not to say "Apple is doomed (in China)," it's an observation of changing trends in consumer buying of smartphones there. That's literally it.

Kierkegaarden

chasm said:

Kierkegaarden said:

This doesn’t clarify anything — a third party research company (based in Hong Kong) is claiming yoy increases or decreases based on what exactly?  And discounting wasn’t discussed, which could have an impact on revenue.  The numbers don’t make sense because they’re not comparing the same things and they’re still just guessing in the end.

I'm sorry you were unable to understand the story. This is about a particular social event/holiday in China where smartphones are traditionally sold as gifts. In previous years, the retailers told analysts like Counterpoint Research that Apple was the dominant brand customers wanted.

This year, according to that same system, it appears that Chinese-made brands have swung back into fashion among buyers. Why that happened isn't explained or theorized, it's just a report of which brands were most in demand based on retailer reports. There are lots of possible theories about why this happened, but that's not really covered in the story -- just reports of higher demand this time around from Chinese-made iPhone knockoffs rather than actual iPhones.

Apple sold a billion dollars' worth of iPhones during the period before the big day. Xiaomi says they sold $3 billion, but that's cumulative across all their products. The point of this article is not to say "Apple is doomed (in China)," it's an observation of changing trends in consumer buying of smartphones there. That's literally it.

I understand what the report is saying, but it doesn’t make sense.  You obviously don’t understand my point.  They are comparing other brand sales across all of their product lines and Apple with just their iPhone — don’t you think that would favor the other brands?

And they state one brand showing a 66% increase and another at 28% — an increase from what?  And were discounts offered that contributed to these increases?

If the goal was to report on changing trends, they failed miserably — you can’t determine trends without more data points than what they’re presenting.

And how exactly does Counterpoint get sales data, and how can it be verified that it is correct?  Can’t you see how easily this can be manipulated to make a brand look good or bad?  

danox

chasm said:

Kierkegaarden said:

This doesn’t clarify anything — a third party research company (based in Hong Kong) is claiming yoy increases or decreases based on what exactly?  And discounting wasn’t discussed, which could have an impact on revenue.  The numbers don’t make sense because they’re not comparing the same things and they’re still just guessing in the end.

I'm sorry you were unable to understand the story. This is about a particular social event/holiday in China where smartphones are traditionally sold as gifts. In previous years, the retailers told analysts like Counterpoint Research that Apple was the dominant brand customers wanted.

This year, according to that same system, it appears that Chinese-made brands have swung back into fashion among buyers. Why that happened isn't explained or theorized, it's just a report of which brands were most in demand based on retailer reports. There are lots of possible theories about why this happened, but that's not really covered in the story -- just reports of higher demand this time around from Chinese-made iPhone knockoffs rather than actual iPhones.

Apple sold a billion dollars' worth of iPhones during the period before the big day. Xiaomi says they sold $3 billion, but that's cumulative across all their products. The point of this article is not to say "Apple is doomed (in China)," it's an observation of changing trends in consumer buying of smartphones there. That's literally it.

A variation of this article has been repeated for the last 10 years, and next month, and the month after it will be repeated again, and again like clockwork by Bloomberg and the Wall Street Journal, the east Asians have shown that they will buy the top-of-the-line products from the west what they won’t buy is the second, third and fourth tier products, in that case, they will buy cheaper local products.

Madbum

Apple drop 4 percent but still sold 20 million phones

Huawei surged 66 percent and sold 800k phones…

notice how they don’t give the actual numbers?

avon b7

Madbum said:

Apple drop 4 percent but still sold 20 million phones

Huawei surged 66 percent and sold 800k phones…

notice how they don’t give the actual numbers?

Yes. That's clear. FTA:

"Percentage comparisons are not especially useful without the full figures and JD.com did not break down its figures into even what were iPhones or other Apple devices.

Plus China's other main retailers have ceased reporting Singles Day sales figures, so it's not possible to compare this year and previous ones."

Not to mention that we are talking about sales for one day here. 

Taken 'as is' there is little to see. It's like when, every year, we see the 'iPhone is the world's top selling model even though other companies could be selling more handsets.

In this case, things only start to have some significance when you try to tie things in with other, similarly sketchy (in terms of absolute numbers) reports and what manufacturers are actually reporting.

Consensus seems to be that since late August, Huawei has been impacting iPhone sales in the region. 

danox

avon b7 said:

Madbum said:

Apple drop 4 percent but still sold 20 million phones

Huawei surged 66 percent and sold 800k phones…

notice how they don’t give the actual numbers?

Yes. That's clear. FTA:

"Percentage comparisons are not especially useful without the full figures and JD.com did not break down its figures into even what were iPhones or other Apple devices.

Plus China's other main retailers have ceased reporting Singles Day sales figures, so it's not possible to compare this year and previous ones."

Not to mention that we are talking about sales for one day here. 

Taken 'as is' there is little to see. It's like when, every year, we see the 'iPhone is the world's top selling model even though other companies could be selling more handsets.

In this case, things only start to have some significance when you try to tie things in with other, similarly sketchy (in terms of absolute numbers) reports and what manufacturers are actually reporting.

Consensus seems to be that since late August, Huawei has been impacting iPhone sales in the region. 

That consensus has been true for the last 10 years, and it will be true for the next 10. Apple doesn’t need to be number one or two in China, Japan or South Korea. All they need to do is sell into the upper end of the market at a higher profit margin, overall marketshare, like Microsoft isn’t part of the game and never has been.

Apple has been able to sell into China, Japan and South Korea, because those countries are so competitive with each other no one wants to be seen with a product from one of the other countries if you’re from that country, Apple is that second go to device/devices in each one of those countries. Not many Japanese wanna be seen with the Samsung or a Chinese smartphone if they can help it, guess which brand they’re buying? And the same as happening in reverse in China and South Korea, the market in East Asia, among those three countries for Apple is bigger than all Europe put together.

avon b7

AFAIK, China is one of few markets where Apple allows retailers to heavily discount iPhones. Some reports claim that the iPhone 15 line has basically been discounted since launch. 

gatorguy

avon b7 said:

AFAIK, China is one of few markets where Apple allows retailers to heavily discount iPhones. Some reports claim that the iPhone 15 line has basically been discounted since launch. 

https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinese-retailers-offer-deep-iphone-15-discounts-2023-10-23/

avon b7

gatorguy said:

Kierkegaarden said:

So this wasn’t an “iPhone” sales decrease, but rather a decrease throughout all products?  Was this also true for the other companies listed, and what was the increase from?  For example, if 66% is an increase from $1000, the number doesn’t seem as exciting.  Also, what did these increases cost?  If they slashed prices by 50%, they need 2x or more extra volume to maintain profit levels.  Reports like this are garbage because they only focus on a small less important part of the story.

https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/idsIgG?now=true

Yes. That's the trend I've been reading about for a few years now. China is allowed to discount far more than markets like the EU. 

I'll take advantage of the moment to clarify something I wrote earlier. It seems (at least with the Counterpoint data) that the Singles Day numbers refer to a two-week period rather than the day itself (11/11).

tmay

avon b7 said:

Madbum said:

Apple drop 4 percent but still sold 20 million phones

Huawei surged 66 percent and sold 800k phones…

notice how they don’t give the actual numbers?

Yes. That's clear. FTA:

"Percentage comparisons are not especially useful without the full figures and JD.com did not break down its figures into even what were iPhones or other Apple devices.

Plus China's other main retailers have ceased reporting Singles Day sales figures, so it's not possible to compare this year and previous ones."

Not to mention that we are talking about sales for one day here. 

Taken 'as is' there is little to see. It's like when, every year, we see the 'iPhone is the world's top selling model even though other companies could be selling more handsets.

In this case, things only start to have some significance when you try to tie things in with other, similarly sketchy (in terms of absolute numbers) reports and what manufacturers are actually reporting.

Consensus seems to be that since late August, Huawei has been impacting iPhone sales in the region. 

In fact, Apple is number two in "handset sales" after Samsung, and given Apple's small mix of models for sale each year, currently only eight, it isn't much of a stretch to understand why "iPhone is the world's top selling model". Naturally, there is the profitability aspect of Apple's lineup as well.

I'm sure that Huawei "surged", given it's almost lifeless status in the handset market, and while it is likely taking some sales from Apple in China, it is more likely taking sales from other Android OS handsets. Given how poorly China's economy is doing currently, I wouldn't expect handset sales to make much headway.