Apple's in-house Wi-Fi chips probably won't make it into the iPhone 17

AppleInsider

Apple probably won't be using in-house Wi-Fi chip designs in its 2025 iPhone lineup, with industry sources claiming it will too hard to reach the goal in the next two years.

Wi-Fi chips for the iPhone 17 may still be supplied by a third-party source

Apple has steadily been bringing the designs of various components in-house, providing it with ways to dictate the capabilities and features of the parts used in iPhone, iPad, and other hardware. However, despite investing in the creation of Wi-Fi chips, it is doubted that it will appear within the next two generations of iPhone.

Sources of DigiTimes say that Apple has invested heavily into Wi-Fi chip development, in a similar manner to its 5G modem chip work. But, just like the 5G chip struggles forcing Apple to extend its work with Qualcomm, the iPhone maker's apparently running into bottlenecks on Wi-Fi too.

Reports of the Wi-Fi project being paused in January and a team reorganization apparently didn't help with the schedule.

The sources added that Wi-Fi chip supplier Broadcom and 5G modem producer Qualcomm have "substantial experience and patented technologies" in the wireless sector, making the barrier to entry to the fields very high, even for Apple.

The difficulty in production means there's less confidence in Apple meeting market speculation that a switch to its own Wi-Fi chips in 2025. To catch up with market heavyweight Broadcom in such a short timeframe would be a considerable challenge to meet.

Though an introduction in the 2025 iPhone lineup doesn't seem plausible to the sources, they added it would be more reasonable for Apple to initially bring the chips out in non-mainstream applications.

While there's the intention of using them in the iPhone at some point, there's a need for Apple to avoid making mistakes with the component. But, as they also need to have the same level of connectivity and power consumption as Broadcom's chips, doing so quickly will be a tall order.

The report's sources add that, short of recruiting elite teams and putting significantly more investment into the project, it's unlikely that Apple will achieve what it needs to in the short timespan.

A better plan, the report offers, would be to delay the introduction of Wi-Fi chips and to use third-party sources like Broadcom for a while longer, rather than excessively spend on the project to get it done faster. The sources also believe that maintaining a main focus on the processing chips in its A-series, would be a better option.

Rumor Score: Possible

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eriamjh

Even if Apple is late, their own chips will ultimately save them money in the long run.   Investment is exactly that.

nubus

eriamjh said:

Even if Apple is late, their own chips will ultimately save them money in the long run.   Investment is exactly that.

Not so sure. It is a legal quagmire. Broadcom and Qualcomm have mined the area with patents. Watch can't be repaired or sold due to patents. Why would Apple put the entire portfolio at risk? And is this really margin only? Apple could probably improve margins by taking business from Foxconn, TSMC, and Sony (cameras). That isn't happening. Why do it on something that isn't super important? Apple could do it on cameras or displays or batteries... but Wifi?

tht

These wireless network chip rumors suggests Apple is taking the wrong development track, and something they normally don’t do, or anyone in project management would do. 

Just all kinds of strange. 

They should not be designing and making chips for their top end products first, but for their low end products first. If they are making a WiFi chip, it should be a WiFi 6 chip, not a 6E nor 7, and put it into Mac minis, Apple TVs, MacBook Airs, etc. 

If they are making a cellular modem, it should just be a plain 5G modem that can go into Macs, iPads and low end iPhones. 

It’s hugely important to ship, refine designs, and ship. It just is strange to hear they want to be first out of the gate with leading edge modems and WiFi chips. Tough to believe that is the plan. 

Would love to hear the story on this. It could just be not willing to pay for the patents, Broadcom and Qualcomm offering better deals versus paying for the patents, designing around patents has been difficult, to just bad management. 

StrangeDays

tht said:

These wireless network chip rumors suggests Apple is taking the wrong development track, and something they normally don’t do, or anyone in project management would do. 

Just all kinds of strange. 

They should not be designing and making chips for their top end products first, but for their low end products first. If they are making a WiFi chip, it should be a WiFi 6 chip, not a 6E nor 7, and put it into Mac minis, Apple TVs, MacBook Airs, etc. 

If they are making a cellular modem, it should just be a plain 5G modem that can go into Macs, iPads and low end iPhones. 

It’s hugely important to ship, refine designs, and ship. It just is strange to hear they want to be first out of the gate with leading edge modems and WiFi chips. Tough to believe that is the plan. 

Would love to hear the story on this. It could just be not willing to pay for the patents, Broadcom and Qualcomm offering better deals versus paying for the patents, designing around patents has been difficult, to just bad management. 

By that logic the M1 should have aimed for crummy Intel performance rather than kickass with the M1. Hmmm. 

tht

StrangeDays said:

tht said:

These wireless network chip rumors suggests Apple is taking the wrong development track, and something they normally don’t do, or anyone in project management would do. 

Just all kinds of strange. 

They should not be designing and making chips for their top end products first, but for their low end products first. If they are making a WiFi chip, it should be a WiFi 6 chip, not a 6E nor 7, and put it into Mac minis, Apple TVs, MacBook Airs, etc. 

If they are making a cellular modem, it should just be a plain 5G modem that can go into Macs, iPads and low end iPhones. 

It’s hugely important to ship, refine designs, and ship. It just is strange to hear they want to be first out of the gate with leading edge modems and WiFi chips. Tough to believe that is the plan. 

Would love to hear the story on this. It could just be not willing to pay for the patents, Broadcom and Qualcomm offering better deals versus paying for the patents, designing around patents has been difficult, to just bad management. 

By that logic the M1 should have aimed for crummy Intel performance rather than kickass with the M1. Hmmm. 

No, you are thinking about this in the wrong time frame. 

The first Apple silicon chip was the A4 in 2010, which was a plain design using CPU cores designed by ARMH. It was basically a selection on existing ASICs from various vendors. 

Their second Apple silicon chip was the A5, a dual core design using ARMH cores. 

Their first custom designed Apple silicon was in the A6 SoC, which had an Apple designed dual core 32 bit CPU. After that, it was the A7, an SoC with a custom designed dual core 64 bit CPU. 

Their first iPad specific design was the A5X, where they increased the GPU and memory performance over the A5. The continued to refine it with the A6X, A8X, A9X, A10X, A12X.

They continued to refine both to this day, where the GPU went from PowerVR to their own custom designs. They added motion and NPU coprocessors, Secure Enclaves, so on and so forth. 

The M1 is a A13X or A14X chip, branded as M1 for the Macs, with refinements suited for lower end Macs. The M1 ships in iPad Air, serving the same role the AnX SoCs did for 6 generations, built off the success of shipping those SoCs for that long.  

The M Pro/Max/Ultra SoCs are all refinements that have their roots in the iPhone SoCs, just more of everything. 

So, Apple indeed started small and unassuming with Apple silicon. The M1 had a history of about 6 SoCs before it, slowly being refined and shipped. 

Apple knows how to do project management. It is strange to hear the rumor that they want to be leading edge out the gate. I can understand the iPhone SE as a good target for the cellular modem per earlier rumors. If they are finding that hard, they need to target iPads with cellular or laptops. Same kind of thought for WiFi chips.

And like I said, the rumor is probably not revealing the complete story here. 

gatorguy

tht said:

StrangeDays said:

tht said:

These wireless network chip rumors suggests Apple is taking the wrong development track, and something they normally don’t do, or anyone in project management would do. 

Just all kinds of strange. 

They should not be designing and making chips for their top end products first, but for their low end products first. If they are making a WiFi chip, it should be a WiFi 6 chip, not a 6E nor 7, and put it into Mac minis, Apple TVs, MacBook Airs, etc. 

If they are making a cellular modem, it should just be a plain 5G modem that can go into Macs, iPads and low end iPhones. 

It’s hugely important to ship, refine designs, and ship. It just is strange to hear they want to be first out of the gate with leading edge modems and WiFi chips. Tough to believe that is the plan. 

Would love to hear the story on this. It could just be not willing to pay for the patents, Broadcom and Qualcomm offering better deals versus paying for the patents, designing around patents has been difficult, to just bad management. 

By that logic the M1 should have aimed for crummy Intel performance rather than kickass with the M1. Hmmm. 

No, you are thinking about this in the wrong time frame. 

The first Apple silicon chip was the A4 in 2010, which was a plain design using CPU cores designed by ARMH. It was basically a selection on existing ASICs from various vendors. 

Their second Apple silicon chip was the A5, a dual core design using ARMH cores. 

Their first custom designed Apple silicon was in the A6 SoC, which had an Apple designed dual core 32 bit CPU. After that, it was the A7, an SoC with a custom designed dual core 64 bit CPU. 

Their first iPad specific design was the A5X, where they increased the GPU and memory performance over the A5. The continued to refine it with the A6X, A8X, A9X, A10X, A12X.

They continued to refine both to this day, where the GPU went from PowerVR to their own custom designs. They added motion and NPU coprocessors, Secure Enclaves, so on and so forth. 

The M1 is a A13X or A14X chip, branded as M1 for the Macs, with refinements suited for lower end Macs. The M1 ships in iPad Air, serving the same role the AnX SoCs did for 6 generations, built off the success of shipping those SoCs for that long.  

The M Pro/Max/Ultra SoCs are all refinements that have their roots in the iPhone SoCs, just more of everything. 

So, Apple indeed started small and unassuming with Apple silicon. The M1 had a history of about 6 SoCs before it, slowly being refined and shipped. 

Apple knows how to do project management. It is strange to hear the rumor that they want to be leading edge out the gate. I can understand the iPhone SE as a good target for the cellular modem per earlier rumors. If they are finding that hard, they need to target iPads with cellular or laptops. Same kind of thought for WiFi chips.

And like I said, the rumor is probably not revealing the complete story here. 

Very well-reasoned. 

danox

tht said:

These wireless network chip rumors suggests Apple is taking the wrong development track, and something they normally don’t do, or anyone in project management would do. 

Just all kinds of strange. 

They should not be designing and making chips for their top end products first, but for their low end products first. If they are making a WiFi chip, it should be a WiFi 6 chip, not a 6E nor 7, and put it into Mac minis, Apple TVs, MacBook Airs, etc. 

If they are making a cellular modem, it should just be a plain 5G modem that can go into Macs, iPads and low end iPhones. 

It’s hugely important to ship, refine designs, and ship. It just is strange to hear they want to be first out of the gate with leading edge modems and WiFi chips. Tough to believe that is the plan. 

Would love to hear the story on this. It could just be not willing to pay for the patents, Broadcom and Qualcomm offering better deals versus paying for the patents, designing around patents has been difficult, to just bad management. 

Intel and AMD are untouchable what is Apple doing, they won't ever be able to get around Qualcomm, Broadcom or Nvidia But they will. (Apple took 13 years to git around Intel/AMD I think they will find a way). Apple isn't Google or Microsoft, Apple learned something after the three stooges Motorola, IBM, and Intel.

https://creativestrategies.com/apple-silicon-and-the-mac-in-the-age-of-ai/ Apple is actually in a very good position.

avon b7

danox said:

tht said:

These wireless network chip rumors suggests Apple is taking the wrong development track, and something they normally don’t do, or anyone in project management would do. 

Just all kinds of strange. 

They should not be designing and making chips for their top end products first, but for their low end products first. If they are making a WiFi chip, it should be a WiFi 6 chip, not a 6E nor 7, and put it into Mac minis, Apple TVs, MacBook Airs, etc. 

If they are making a cellular modem, it should just be a plain 5G modem that can go into Macs, iPads and low end iPhones. 

It’s hugely important to ship, refine designs, and ship. It just is strange to hear they want to be first out of the gate with leading edge modems and WiFi chips. Tough to believe that is the plan. 

Would love to hear the story on this. It could just be not willing to pay for the patents, Broadcom and Qualcomm offering better deals versus paying for the patents, designing around patents has been difficult, to just bad management. 

Intel and AMD are untouchable what is Apple doing, they won't ever be able to get around Qualcomm, Broadcom or Nvidia But they will. (Apple took 13 years to git around Intel/AMD I think they will find a way). Apple isn't Google or Microsoft, Apple learned something after the three stooges Motorola, IBM, and Intel.

https://creativestrategies.com/apple-silicon-and-the-mac-in-the-age-of-ai/ Apple is actually in a very good position.

I don't see anything relevant in that article. 

End user Apple devices running smaller sized LLMs in the future. Maybe 2024. The article paints a 'wait and see' picture. 

That's fine but competing local devices are already doing that - today. 

That surely means others are in an even better situation. 

All AI purposed silicon is good for those goals. 

It will make sense for some models to run locally. It will also make sense for some to run in the cloud, edge or on-site clusters. 

Take a look at the date of this article:

https://siliconangle.com/2020/03/30/huawei-open-sourced-ai-framework-called-mindspore-rival-googles-tensorflow/

Personally, I think Apple is taking the correct steps in trying to produce its own Wi-Fi silicon and better cater to AI (anywhere in its silicon roadmap). 

It is far from easy though and there are no guarantees of success and we should not shy away from admitting that the moves are a little late. But better late than never. 

The steps are the right steps (so far) IMO.