Apple has started the assault on gaming with their first step - an actually great. GPU.
The base A17 Pro/M3 will be the baseline for AAA games. So the hardware effort has been launched.
Logically, if Apple is truly going to make a go of it, the. next step will be developer tools - oh... That's already done?
Gee, sounds like it's a real thing then.
The next step will be the founding of a first-party game studio/purchase of an existing AAA studio - or three. Even one exclusive/timed exclusive/semi-exclusive game per year would be huge. And third parties adding to that would be a good start. But Apple actively recruiting third-party contracts would be the way to go. They have made some baby steps in this regard, but a serious effort would be massive. With Apple's fan base combined with gaming fans, Apple wouldn't know what hit them with the financial additions and fan growth.
Getting the M3 into an affordable hardware "Apple Arcade" would be a great move. in addition to the computer/device ecosystem.
I expect to see more news on this front at WWDC.
Nintendo has the weakest console in the market, and the sales has been amazing because the innovation and the games. A device with an A17 / M3 is not enough to be successful in gaming. And I don't think and affordable device for Apple Arcade will do something when you have a better console, service and ecosystem in Xbox Series S + GamePass.
Pushing hard? The new ARM based Mac Pros don't even support GPUs.
All Macs have GPUs.
I’m assuming they meant External GPU’s.
That ship has sailed, which is why Apple has to be more proactive as usual they simply can't put their future in gaming in the hands of Unity and Epic (who are flaking out) they need to make the tools needed better than what they are today, and one or two really good games showcasing the built in abilities won't hurt.
If I were Apple I wouldn't pay any of these flaky game companies, this being Apple anything done aside from software gaming infrastructure needs to fly under the radar until ready. Could be in motion already?
And what built-in abilities will Apple showcase that could be better than what we have with Intel, Nvidia and AMD? Apart from efficiency, the other companies are ahead of Apple.
From hardware standpoint Apple has a long way to go when it comes to gaming. Sure Apple is putting lots of GPUs in their silicon, but Apple's GPU are puny compared to the GPU cards PC gamers are using. Apple has a long way to go before serious gamers are going to take them seriously.
Well the M3 GPU chip seems to give the GTX 4090 a run in some tested instances I believe I saw. So, they are on their way...
Apple has started the assault on gaming with their first step - an actually great. GPU.
The base A17 Pro/M3 will be the baseline for AAA games. So the hardware effort has been launched.
Logically, if Apple is truly going to make a go of it, the. next step will be developer tools - oh... That's already done?
Gee, sounds like it's a real thing then.
The next step will be the founding of a first-party game studio/purchase of an existing AAA studio - or three. Even one exclusive/timed exclusive/semi-exclusive game per year would be huge. And third parties adding to that would be a good start. But Apple actively recruiting third-party contracts would be the way to go. They have made some baby steps in this regard, but a serious effort would be massive. With Apple's fan base combined with gaming fans, Apple wouldn't know what hit them with the financial additions and fan growth.
Getting the M3 into an affordable hardware "Apple Arcade" would be a great move. in addition to the computer/device ecosystem.
I expect to see more news on this front at WWDC.
Nintendo has the weakest console in the market, and the sales has been amazing because the innovation and the games. A device with an A17 / M3 is not enough to be successful in gaming. And I don't think and affordable device for Apple Arcade will do something when you have a better console, service and ecosystem in Xbox Series S + GamePass.
Pushing hard? The new ARM based Mac Pros don't even support GPUs.
All Macs have GPUs.
I’m assuming they meant External GPU’s.
That ship has sailed, which is why Apple has to be more proactive as usual they simply can't put their future in gaming in the hands of Unity and Epic (who are flaking out) they need to make the tools needed better than what they are today, and one or two really good games showcasing the built in abilities won't hurt.
If I were Apple I wouldn't pay any of these flaky game companies, this being Apple anything done aside from software gaming infrastructure needs to fly under the radar until ready. Could be in motion already?
And what built-in abilities will Apple showcase that could be better than what we have with Intel, Nvidia and AMD? Apart from efficiency, the other companies are ahead of Apple.
In one post you comment that it's not about the HW, but the games, and in the next you say it's about the HW, while dismissing power efficiency of a laptop which is already meeting and beating the performance of most discrete GPUs sold. Eesh.
I understand Apple’s efforts to get into gaming in a bigger way, but I have never understood why they didn’t go after the CAD/solid modelling market as well. I’m retired now, but in 2001 when Apple built their OS on Unix, I thought for sure they would wipe Microsoft out of the business. Unix (Solaris, Irix, etc…) was far and away a bettef platform than Windows NT. However, Apple never seemed to lift a finger to encourage it. There still isn’t a top end CAD app on Mac OS to this day. Headscratcher to me.
Apple has started the assault on gaming with their first step - an actually great. GPU.
The base A17 Pro/M3 will be the baseline for AAA games. So the hardware effort has been launched.
Logically, if Apple is truly going to make a go of it, the. next step will be developer tools - oh... That's already done?
Gee, sounds like it's a real thing then.
The next step will be the founding of a first-party game studio/purchase of an existing AAA studio - or three. Even one exclusive/timed exclusive/semi-exclusive game per year would be huge. And third parties adding to that would be a good start. But Apple actively recruiting third-party contracts would be the way to go. They have made some baby steps in this regard, but a serious effort would be massive. With Apple's fan base combined with gaming fans, Apple wouldn't know what hit them with the financial additions and fan growth.
Getting the M3 into an affordable hardware "Apple Arcade" would be a great move. in addition to the computer/device ecosystem.
I expect to see more news on this front at WWDC.
Nintendo has the weakest console in the market, and the sales has been amazing because the innovation and the games. A device with an A17 / M3 is not enough to be successful in gaming. And I don't think and affordable device for Apple Arcade will do something when you have a better console, service and ecosystem in Xbox Series S + GamePass.
Pushing hard? The new ARM based Mac Pros don't even support GPUs.
All Macs have GPUs.
I’m assuming they meant External GPU’s.
That ship has sailed, which is why Apple has to be more proactive as usual they simply can't put their future in gaming in the hands of Unity and Epic (who are flaking out) they need to make the tools needed better than what they are today, and one or two really good games showcasing the built in abilities won't hurt.
If I were Apple I wouldn't pay any of these flaky game companies, this being Apple anything done aside from software gaming infrastructure needs to fly under the radar until ready. Could be in motion already?
And what built-in abilities will Apple showcase that could be better than what we have with Intel, Nvidia and AMD? Apart from efficiency, the other companies are ahead of Apple.
In one post you comment that it's not about the HW, but the games, and in the next you say it's about the HW, while dismissing power efficiency of a laptop which is already meeting and beating the performance of most discrete GPUs sold. Eesh.
My responses were to two different comments.
My first comment was about how Nintendo succeed by releasing excellent games, and not focusing on hardware performance. Am I wrong?
In my second comment I said "Apart from efficiency, the other companies are ahead of Apple". How did I dismiss Apple power efficiency? At the same time, I mentioned that Nvidia, Intel and AMD are ahead of Apple in performance. Isn't that true? And Apple could have some performance advantage compared to some dGPU's, but still behind the best from Nvidia.
The other thing that I would like to see from Apple that I think would help with this transition is a version of the Apple TV with the power level closer to a Mac than an iPhone.
This seems like it would be good thing. Or maybe a Mini with enhanced gaming specs AND an Apple TV built in.
Pushing hard? The new ARM-based Mac Pros don't even support GPUs. Even Steam gave up on macOS and CS:GO is no longer supported. People who have time to play games the whole day are kids. Their parents ain't buying them a $2K Mac to game. If Apple seriously wants to get into gaming, either they need to target the kid segment or the tech enthusiast. The current Macs target a working professional and so that is where they sell
um... they DO in fact. support GPUs. Apple silicon GPUs. not third-party hardware. The fact that Apple makes them doesn't somehow magically, in an alternate universe, all of a sudden "not GPUs."
You don't have to support AMD/Nvidia, etc. to do gaming. You. just need a capable GPU period. Apple finally has one. And this will likely only get better.
Your mention of only kids playing games and expensive computers is somehow a barrier - is hilarious. You DO know that people may more money for a gaming GPU on the PC side than they would pay for an entire Mac, right? The only GPUs that beat out the M3 Max right now are hugely expensive - considering all you get is the GPu itself.
People upgrade. their PCs all. the time just to get better performance in... gaming.
Apple has a much better standing to move forward since it will be more like a console in that you have your baseline spec and then the "pro" spec as seen in the PS4/PS4 Pro era.
With the advent of M3, Apple is ready. to make its mark in AAA. high-end gaming. As. their hardware continues to improve and more developers get on board, the future is looking pretty good.
There is no barrier. Apple has even created tools to make it easy to port games to Mac.
If Apple wants to come out with an M powered Apple Arcade hardware gaming/entertainment console, they'll make a killing. People are willing to pay good money. for an Xbox or Playstation. They will be willing to pay at least as much for an Apple Arcade. Especially if Apple does something bold like purchasing Star Citizen and other AAA games.
I really wish Apple would focus more on their mobile games rather than try and compete with the console and PC platforms. They’re never going to be competitive with either of those platforms but the mobile market is a whole other story. Some of the most lucrative games in the industry can be played on Apple hardware. All Apple has to do is make it easier to port games from the iOS/ipadOS to tvOS and Mac OS. Imagine playing Genshin Impact on your iMac at work while you’re on your break then on your iPad (that’s what I use) while you commute back home then on the Apple TV (they just need to bump up the specs to be at least as powerful as an iPhone) that is in your living room. They have a golden opportunity to become the premier platform for mobile gaming and sell a lot more hardware by marketing the Apple TV and Macs as legitimate gaming devices.
From hardware standpoint Apple has a long way to go when it comes to gaming. Sure Apple is putting lots of GPUs in their silicon, but Apple's GPU are puny compared to the GPU cards PC gamers are using. Apple has a long way to go before serious gamers are going to take them seriously.
Well the M3 GPU chip seems to give the GTX 4090 a run in some tested instances I believe I saw. So, they are on their way...
Not even close, and that test was only on LLM computation, which is usually highly optimised for Nvidia cards, like most games. Apple scores fairly well there, but the 4090 still blows it out of the water. But Apple doesn't need to be in the top spot for gaming, 3rd or 4th would already be quite the accomplishment when they get there.
But with gaming, you need development software, and those parties have left Apple a long time ago. Maybe they will return now that there is a somewhat decent GPU on Macs. Time will tell. Also, while Apple has Metal, most games are made with DirectX or Vulkan, and while there are translation layers for that, it's not great, and only a piece of the total puzzle. I've managed to run some simple games in emulation with Whisky, so there are possibilities. For games to succeed, they also need to sell well, which is already a problem on the PC, and that is why a lot of games are low-effort console ports.
I think the best-running native game is World of Warcraft, for which Apple wrote the Metal code themselves. I don't see that happening for many games.
Yet Windows systems don’t seem to have any problems with “complexity” given the widespread availability of games on that system.
Well, Windows systems do have problems with complexity. Given that Windows will support, without modifying the OS itself, almost any consumer grade hardware on the market with a well designed driver, there will be problems. And face it, lots of hardware does not have well designed drivers, or drivers that conflict.
Pushing hard? The new ARM based Mac Pros don't even support GPUs. Even Steam gave up on macOS and CS:GO is no longer supported. People who have time to play games the whole day are kids. Their parents ain't buying them a $2K Mac to game. If Apple seriously wants to get into gaming, either they need to target the kid segment or the tech enthusiast. The current Macs target a working professional and so that is where they sell
Gaming is a brain killer for both kids and adults, Apple in my opinion should have nothing to do with it! What they should do is work on Mac to be the best not only for film and music editors, but also 3G & Coding and the best General computer!
I wonder, once Apple makes the Mac relevant in gaming, if they also intend to make the Mac App Store relevant in gaming. Or if they are just going all-in on Steam.
Yet Windows systems don’t seem to have any problems with “complexity” given the widespread availability of games on that system.
Well, Windows systems do have problems with complexity. Given that Windows will support, without modifying the OS itself, almost any consumer grade hardware on the market with a well designed driver, there will be problems. And face it, lots of hardware does not have well designed drivers, or drivers that conflict.
I don't think you'll have driver issues with devices from major vendors, HP, Dell and Lenovo. This could extend to parts, just make sure it's a reliable vendor.
Pushing hard? The new ARM based Mac Pros don't even support GPUs. Even Steam gave up on macOS and CS:GO is no longer supported. People who have time to play games the whole day are kids. Their parents ain't buying them a $2K Mac to game. If Apple seriously wants to get into gaming, either they need to target the kid segment or the tech enthusiast. The current Macs target a working professional and so that is where they sell
Gaming is a brain killer for both kids and adults, Apple in my opinion should have nothing to do with it! What they should do is work on Mac to be the best not only for film and music editors, but also 3G & Coding and the best General computer!
Apple Vision Pro will serve as a platform for gaming. Apple Vision is built with optimizations where your eyes track, the resolution of that spot increases thus appearing more smooth. Future displays will increase its refresh rate and will be brighter and more fluid. There is no point of adding more GPU when your vision is much around 6K and the dedicated computer like Apple Pro can track where your eyes are looking at and immediately increase resolution there making it imperceptible to see any degradation in resolution while gaming.
It's much "reality only appears when you observe" computing.
Pushing hard? The new ARM based Mac Pros don't even support GPUs. Even Steam gave up on macOS and CS:GO is no longer supported. People who have time to play games the whole day are kids. Their parents ain't buying them a $2K Mac to game. If Apple seriously wants to get into gaming, either they need to target the kid segment or the tech enthusiast. The current Macs target a working professional and so that is where they sell
Gaming is a brain killer for both kids and adults, Apple in my opinion should have nothing to do with it! What they should do is work on Mac to be the best not only for film and music editors, but also 3G & Coding and the best General computer!
Why is “gaming” an absolute brain killer? Mental health and education are very much apart of games and all entertainment as a whole.
What Apple really needs is for major gaming studios to start making their games for the Mac on Metal. Once a game gets on Metal it seems to do quite well with Apple Silicon. I think this will be the hardest part for Apple to succeed with gaming. They have the hardware that is good enough and only keeps getting better and better year after year.
I think eventually NVIDIA will hit a wall. The 4090 card is huge and there's only so much cooling and power draw you can have before you hit the end. This could be where Apple succeeds long term...that's maybe not today but 2yrs down the road we'll see where Apple is in terms of GPU versus NVIDIA.
The other thing that's great for Apple is they can have kick ass graphics in a laptop on battery whereas a similar spec'd Windows laptop may beat it today, but has to be plugged in or else it runs out of battery much much faster and throttles like hell as well. Or shit, even on a $800 Mac mini or a $1200-1400 iMac they can have decent graphics. It seems like everyone only compares things to the latest and greatest which is good yes just to see where they are, but how many on average actually have a 4090 today versus something from 2-3 yrs ago, possibly longer?
Pushing hard? The new ARM based Mac Pros don't even support GPUs. Even Steam gave up on macOS and CS:GO is no longer supported. People who have time to play games the whole day are kids. Their parents ain't buying them a $2K Mac to game. If Apple seriously wants to get into gaming, either they need to target the kid segment or the tech enthusiast. The current Macs target a working professional and so that is where they sell
Gaming is a brain killer for both kids and adults, Apple in my opinion should have nothing to do with it! What they should do is work on Mac to be the best not only for film and music editors, but also 3G & Coding and the best General computer!
Comments
Well the M3 GPU chip seems to give the GTX 4090 a run in some tested instances I believe I saw. So, they are on their way...
My first comment was about how Nintendo succeed by releasing excellent games, and not focusing on hardware performance. Am I wrong?
In my second comment I said "Apart from efficiency, the other companies are ahead of Apple". How did I dismiss Apple power efficiency? At the same time, I mentioned that Nvidia, Intel and AMD are ahead of Apple in performance. Isn't that true? And Apple could have some performance advantage compared to some dGPU's, but still behind the best from Nvidia.
This seems like it would be good thing.
Or maybe a Mini with enhanced gaming specs AND an Apple TV built in.
But with gaming, you need development software, and those parties have left Apple a long time ago. Maybe they will return now that there is a somewhat decent GPU on Macs. Time will tell. Also, while Apple has Metal, most games are made with DirectX or Vulkan, and while there are translation layers for that, it's not great, and only a piece of the total puzzle. I've managed to run some simple games in emulation with Whisky, so there are possibilities. For games to succeed, they also need to sell well, which is already a problem on the PC, and that is why a lot of games are low-effort console ports.
I think the best-running native game is World of Warcraft, for which Apple wrote the Metal code themselves. I don't see that happening for many games.
Now the only way anyone will take them seriously is if they bend over backwards for developers and make a public, long term commitment to gaming.
Without that there would be nothing to think it is just marketing pie in the sky.
I agree that they will also need to start producing their own top notch titles and find a way for them to be playable for years.
What they should do is work on Mac to be the best not only for film and music editors, but also 3G & Coding and the best General computer!
'Super Mario Odyssey' Helps Treat Depression, Study Finds - Men's Journal (mensjournal.com)
Apple Vision Pro will serve as a platform for gaming. Apple Vision is built with optimizations where your eyes track, the resolution of that spot increases thus appearing more smooth. Future displays will increase its refresh rate and will be brighter and more fluid. There is no point of adding more GPU when your vision is much around 6K and the dedicated computer like Apple Pro can track where your eyes are looking at and immediately increase resolution there making it imperceptible to see any degradation in resolution while gaming.
It's much "reality only appears when you observe" computing.
I think eventually NVIDIA will hit a wall. The 4090 card is huge and there's only so much cooling and power draw you can have before you hit the end. This could be where Apple succeeds long term...that's maybe not today but 2yrs down the road we'll see where Apple is in terms of GPU versus NVIDIA.
The other thing that's great for Apple is they can have kick ass graphics in a laptop on battery whereas a similar spec'd Windows laptop may beat it today, but has to be plugged in or else it runs out of battery much much faster and throttles like hell as well. Or shit, even on a $800 Mac mini or a $1200-1400 iMac they can have decent graphics. It seems like everyone only compares things to the latest and greatest which is good yes just to see where they are, but how many on average actually have a 4090 today versus something from 2-3 yrs ago, possibly longer?
Okay boomer...
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!