Phones are just vending machines for services right now. Obviously there’s not much that can be innovated with a phone right now. It’s al evolution and not revolution.
How is that a surprise?
Incorrect. I’d wager the camera is among the top jobs to be done, and it just keeps getting better. My 15 Pro takes amazing photos with the advances in computational photography. Back in the day low light via high ISO incurred quite a noise penalty, which is almost nonexistent now. My 15 takes much better photos than my 14.
If you are playing the market short term maybe, but in that case why would it matter in January when the model in question isn't due to ship until September/October?
If you are looking at a long term investment, one model is just a blip on your screen.
Most iPhone users will want to upgrade to a new iPhone. Most, would simply put off upgrading until something better comes along or bite the bullet if waiting isn't an option. Their options are few and far between.
Either way, Apple is likely to get the sale eventually.
A smaller number would probably consider switching but would that dramatically impact sales?
A recent report said Apple had been impacted and seen a sales decline as a result of not offering a folding option but the decline in that report was estimated at less than 10%.
Is it relevant? Yes, because those sales were lost from the most premium segment but overall I doubt it worries Apple too much.
Obviously, some markets will be more fickle than others. It is far more likely that a Spanish iPhone user will switch than a US iPhone user.
Another point is that there is currently a massive push into intelligent cars in China and a lot of that intelligence is coming from external players who also manufacture phones.
If you can get folding phone that integrates deeply with your car and everything else in your ecosystem, that will obviously appeal to some users. If Apple isn't offering a comparable feature set that might work against sales.
But that is the bigger picture and has little to do with whether the next iPhone model will be compelling or not.
For new potential features look no further than current Android phones:
New image sensors for cameras. Variable physical aperture. Ultra fast charging (wired and wireless) Improved lenses More options on finish Two way voice satellite communication. Ehem, AI. Flip and folding options.
There is still a lot that can be offered. Would some of that be compelling?
We would only look to the crummy knockoffs to see specs-as-features and poorly implemented “features” racing to be first. They’re adopting MagSafe into Qi. Their finishes are copies of Apple’s, often hilariously identically (tho can we ever forget your favorite Chinese knockoff for their KFC-branded red finish? lol). Apple’s sensors and lenses + computation still result in a better camera, despite the clones aping iOS Camera’s interface 100%.
If you are playing the market short term maybe, but in that case why would it matter in January when the model in question isn't due to ship until September/October?
If you are looking at a long term investment, one model is just a blip on your screen.
Most iPhone users will want to upgrade to a new iPhone. Most, would simply put off upgrading until something better comes along or bite the bullet if waiting isn't an option. Their options are few and far between.
Either way, Apple is likely to get the sale eventually.
A smaller number would probably consider switching but would that dramatically impact sales?
A recent report said Apple had been impacted and seen a sales decline as a result of not offering a folding option but the decline in that report was estimated at less than 10%.
Is it relevant? Yes, because those sales were lost from the most premium segment but overall I doubt it worries Apple too much.
Obviously, some markets will be more fickle than others. It is far more likely that a Spanish iPhone user will switch than a US iPhone user.
Another point is that there is currently a massive push into intelligent cars in China and a lot of that intelligence is coming from external players who also manufacture phones.
If you can get folding phone that integrates deeply with your car and everything else in your ecosystem, that will obviously appeal to some users. If Apple isn't offering a comparable feature set that might work against sales.
But that is the bigger picture and has little to do with whether the next iPhone model will be compelling or not.
For new potential features look no further than current Android phones:
New image sensors for cameras. Variable physical aperture. Ultra fast charging (wired and wireless) Improved lenses More options on finish Two way voice satellite communication. Ehem, AI. Flip and folding options.
There is still a lot that can be offered. Would some of that be compelling?
We would only look to the crummy knockoffs to see specs-as-features and poorly implemented “features” racing to be first. They’re adopting MagSafe into Qi. Their finishes are copies of Apple’s, often hilariously identically (tho can we ever forget your favorite Chinese knockoff for their KFC-branded red finish? lol). Apple’s sensors and lenses + computation still result in a better camera, despite the clones aping iOS Camera’s interface 100%.
Oooh AI! Yeah man, the new 3D tv set.
You are obviously on a roll of getting things completely backwards.
Let's run through some of them.
Specs as features and poorly implemented.
This is laughable in the extreme.
When two way voice satellite calls reached Android, surely the point was being able to have a real time two way conversion via satellite. Pitted against an iPhone that does not have that feature, which option would you prefer to have? Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't like that option or that it's just a spec as a feature?
It isn't and the implementation is just fine.
Finish. Copies of Apple?
Please get real. Apple is probably the worst proponent of decent finishes although in recent years it has taken to offering more options, but none of them anywhere near the sophistication of some Android phones. My favourite finish of 2023. Please let me know which iPhone it was copied from?
Lenses and computational photography. 'The better camera'.
Sorry. No. Until relatively recently, Apple was so far behind in certain photographic areas that you couldn't even take the photo because it didn't have the hardware to do it. Low light and noise (especially on UW) were particular problems on iPhones. Back in the day (even after a year in beta) Portlait Mode wouldn't even let you press the shutter button if it deemed there wasn't enough light! Lack of a periscope option (until a few months ago and one model and limited functionality). Apple had a lead in video. iPhone 14 (or was is 13?) were criticised because the software was behind the new hardware in terms of tuning. Apple had finally increased the pixel count. So much for your 'implementation' claims. Anyway, for as great as iPhone photos can look (all flagship photography oriented phones offer great output) it can only take certain photos if the hardware is on board. It's been catching up over the last few years. Apple isn't the only company doing 'computational' photography either.
If I mentioned some existing features from Android it is because there is room for them on iPhones. Wouldn't you like them? The problem is Apple likes to drip feed them to users.
MagSafe? You mean magnets? Is that what they offered Qi? AFAIK Qi has its roadmap. Perhaps more interesting is precisely why Apple offered it in the first place. I'm sure the EU had something to do with it if only indirectly.
Apple has lagged far behind rivals in all aspects of charging, and shipping 5W chargers with iPhones for a decade was more of an insult than anything else.
Ten years of Lightning (with basically zero improvements to transfer speeds) wasn't anything to write home about either.
Your typical 'put down' reply was unnecessary so I've dunked it into a bucket of reality.
It went right over your head but my points (listed) were about exactly where Apple could improve things on the iPhone. There is a lot of room for improvement. I mean a LOT, and a lot of it is already on the market. Whether compelling or not is a different story.
You love to band around terms like 'knock off', 'copy' and 'clone' without stopping even for a moment to realise that for a few years now Apple has been implementing major features from rivals but no one is telling you that it's Apple doing the 'knocking off' are they? Reflect on that for a second.
Phones progress and blindly thinking everyone is out copying Apple is utterly absurd. Ludicrous. Nonsense as you often say.
Next you'll be telling me that a hole punch replacing the notch was really Android phones implementing Apple patents ahead of time.
Like I said, and I really want to drive this home to you. If you don't have the hardware, you are going to have a hard time producing certain features. I've given you a couple of examples in photography. It's the same with batteries and charging.
Let's look at cars. There is no possible way CarPlay can get anywhere near the Chinese on software/hardware integration because it doesn't have a role in the development of the hardware itself. Can you see that?
Is that reasonable to you?
That, potentially, is a major hurdle in one of Apple's key markets because if people here claim 'I'm not buying a car if it doesn't have CarPlay', it is not impossible to imagine that competitors offering both hardware and deep software integration into it, will end up offering a far superior experience because their phones actually take full advantage of what's on offer and extend back into their homes.
Your '3D TV' quip was incredibly ironic seeing how some cars can seamlessly video call among themselves and back home to the living room TV. Or that cars like the new AITO M9 actually have more screens than seats. And 2000W, 25 speaker sound systems with segmented AI voice integration.
The 'experience' is real and has been shipping for years now already and is only getting better while the only thing Apple has brought (and late) to market is a revamped CarPlay.
'Knock offs' , you say?
Instead of misplaced disdain for competing products you should at least be aware of what's happening outside the Apple world.
If you are playing the market short term maybe, but in that case why would it matter in January when the model in question isn't due to ship until September/October?
If you are looking at a long term investment, one model is just a blip on your screen.
Most iPhone users will want to upgrade to a new iPhone. Most, would simply put off upgrading until something better comes along or bite the bullet if waiting isn't an option. Their options are few and far between.
Either way, Apple is likely to get the sale eventually.
A smaller number would probably consider switching but would that dramatically impact sales?
A recent report said Apple had been impacted and seen a sales decline as a result of not offering a folding option but the decline in that report was estimated at less than 10%.
Is it relevant? Yes, because those sales were lost from the most premium segment but overall I doubt it worries Apple too much.
Obviously, some markets will be more fickle than others. It is far more likely that a Spanish iPhone user will switch than a US iPhone user.
Another point is that there is currently a massive push into intelligent cars in China and a lot of that intelligence is coming from external players who also manufacture phones.
If you can get folding phone that integrates deeply with your car and everything else in your ecosystem, that will obviously appeal to some users. If Apple isn't offering a comparable feature set that might work against sales.
But that is the bigger picture and has little to do with whether the next iPhone model will be compelling or not.
For new potential features look no further than current Android phones:
New image sensors for cameras. Variable physical aperture. Ultra fast charging (wired and wireless) Improved lenses More options on finish Two way voice satellite communication. Ehem, AI. Flip and folding options.
There is still a lot that can be offered. Would some of that be compelling?
We would only look to the crummy knockoffs to see specs-as-features and poorly implemented “features” racing to be first. They’re adopting MagSafe into Qi. Their finishes are copies of Apple’s, often hilariously identically (tho can we ever forget your favorite Chinese knockoff for their KFC-branded red finish? lol). Apple’s sensors and lenses + computation still result in a better camera, despite the clones aping iOS Camera’s interface 100%.
Oooh AI! Yeah man, the new 3D tv set.
You are obviously on a roll of getting things completely backwards.
Let's run through some of them.
Specs as features and poorly implemented.
This is laughable in the extreme.
When two way voice satellite calls reached Android, surely the point was being able to have a real time two way conversion via satellite. Pitted against an iPhone that does not have that feature, which option would you prefer to have? Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't like that option or that it's just a spec as a feature?
It isn't and the implementation is just fine.
Finish. Copies of Apple?
Please get real. Apple is probably the worst proponent of decent finishes although in recent years it has taken to offering more options, but none of them anywhere near the sophistication of some Android phones. My favourite finish of 2023. Please let me know which iPhone it was copied from?
Lenses and computational photography. 'The better camera'.
Sorry. No. Until relatively recently, Apple was so far behind in certain photographic areas that you couldn't even take the photo because it didn't have the hardware to do it. Low light and noise (especially on UW) were particular problems on iPhones. Back in the day (even after a year in beta) Portlait Mode wouldn't even let you press the shutter button if it deemed there wasn't enough light! Lack of a periscope option (until a few months ago and one model and limited functionality). Apple had a lead in video. iPhone 14 (or was is 13?) were criticised because the software was behind the new hardware in terms of tuning. Apple had finally increased the pixel count. So much for your 'implementation' claims. Anyway, for as great as iPhone photos can look (all flagship photography oriented phones offer great output) it can only take certain photos if the hardware is on board. It's been catching up over the last few years. Apple isn't the only company doing 'computational' photography either.
If I mentioned some existing features from Android it is because there is room for them on iPhones. Wouldn't you like them? The problem is Apple likes to drip feed them to users.
MagSafe? You mean magnets? Is that what they offered Qi? AFAIK Qi has its roadmap. Perhaps more interesting is precisely why Apple offered it in the first place. I'm sure the EU had something to do with it if only indirectly.
Apple has lagged far behind rivals in all aspects of charging, and shipping 5W chargers with iPhones for a decade was more of an insult than anything else.
Ten years of Lightning (with basically zero improvements to transfer speeds) wasn't anything to write home about either.
Your typical 'put down' reply was unnecessary so I've dunked it into a bucket of reality.
It went right over your head but my points (listed) were about exactly where Apple could improve things on the iPhone. There is a lot of room for improvement. I mean a LOT, and a lot of it is already on the market. Whether compelling or not is a different story.
You love to band around terms like 'knock off', 'copy' and 'clone' without stopping even for a moment to realise that for a few years now Apple has been implementing major features from rivals but no one is telling you that it's Apple doing the 'knocking off' are they? Reflect on that for a second.
Phones progress and blindly thinking everyone is out copying Apple is utterly absurd. Ludicrous. Nonsense as you often say.
Next you'll be telling me that a hole punch replacing the notch was really Android phones implementing Apple patents ahead of time.
Like I said, and I really want to drive this home to you. If you don't have the hardware, you are going to have a hard time producing certain features. I've given you a couple of examples in photography. It's the same with batteries and charging.
Let's look at cars. There is no possible way CarPlay can get anywhere near the Chinese on software/hardware integration because it doesn't have a role in the development of the hardware itself. Can you see that?
Is that reasonable to you?
That, potentially, is a major hurdle in one of Apple's key markets because if people here claim 'I'm not buying a car if it doesn't have CarPlay', it is not impossible to imagine that competitors offering both hardware and deep software integration into it, will end up offering a far superior experience because their phones actually take full advantage of what's on offer and extend back into their homes.
Your '3D TV' quip was incredibly ironic seeing how some cars can seamlessly video call among themselves and back home to the living room TV. Or that cars like the new AITO M9 actually have more screens than seats. And 2000W, 25 speaker sound systems with segmented AI voice integration.
The 'experience' is real and has been shipping for years now already and is only getting better while the only thing Apple has brought (and late) to market is a revamped CarPlay.
'Knock offs' , you say?
Instead of misplaced disdain for competing products you should at least be aware of what's happening outside the Apple world.
So, I actually took the time to look up how many Huawei Mate 60 were sold, in China in the first 8 weeks it has been available;
Eight weeks since its launch in August, the Mate 60 series has recorded 2.4 million units in domestic sales volume, according to earlier Counterpoint data.
Not that it matters, but Apple will still sell north of 200 million iPhones this year, 70% of which, or 140 million, are iPhone 15's. Given that Apple is in business to make a profit, there isn't much incentive to build boutique devices in limited quantity, including folding phones, but sure, works for Huawei given their lack of competitive SOC's.
As for your comment about cars; get back to us when you actually use and own one, as that is a relevant fact in your postulations about cars, because one of the big complaints about the industry, is that it can't deliver what the consumer wants at a price they can afford.
Me, I'm waiting for a hybrid small pickup from Toyota, the Stout, to compete with the Ford Maverick, and the Rampage expected from Stellantis, and no, I'm not looking for a "superior experience" from my iPhone connected to the entertainment system.
If you are playing the market short term maybe, but in that case why would it matter in January when the model in question isn't due to ship until September/October?
If you are looking at a long term investment, one model is just a blip on your screen.
Most iPhone users will want to upgrade to a new iPhone. Most, would simply put off upgrading until something better comes along or bite the bullet if waiting isn't an option. Their options are few and far between.
Either way, Apple is likely to get the sale eventually.
A smaller number would probably consider switching but would that dramatically impact sales?
A recent report said Apple had been impacted and seen a sales decline as a result of not offering a folding option but the decline in that report was estimated at less than 10%.
Is it relevant? Yes, because those sales were lost from the most premium segment but overall I doubt it worries Apple too much.
Obviously, some markets will be more fickle than others. It is far more likely that a Spanish iPhone user will switch than a US iPhone user.
Another point is that there is currently a massive push into intelligent cars in China and a lot of that intelligence is coming from external players who also manufacture phones.
If you can get folding phone that integrates deeply with your car and everything else in your ecosystem, that will obviously appeal to some users. If Apple isn't offering a comparable feature set that might work against sales.
But that is the bigger picture and has little to do with whether the next iPhone model will be compelling or not.
For new potential features look no further than current Android phones:
New image sensors for cameras. Variable physical aperture. Ultra fast charging (wired and wireless) Improved lenses More options on finish Two way voice satellite communication. Ehem, AI. Flip and folding options.
There is still a lot that can be offered. Would some of that be compelling?
We would only look to the crummy knockoffs to see specs-as-features and poorly implemented “features” racing to be first. They’re adopting MagSafe into Qi. Their finishes are copies of Apple’s, often hilariously identically (tho can we ever forget your favorite Chinese knockoff for their KFC-branded red finish? lol). Apple’s sensors and lenses + computation still result in a better camera, despite the clones aping iOS Camera’s interface 100%.
Oooh AI! Yeah man, the new 3D tv set.
You are obviously on a roll of getting things completely backwards.
Let's run through some of them.
Specs as features and poorly implemented.
This is laughable in the extreme.
When two way voice satellite calls reached Android, surely the point was being able to have a real time two way conversion via satellite. Pitted against an iPhone that does not have that feature, which option would you prefer to have? Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't like that option or that it's just a spec as a feature?
It isn't and the implementation is just fine.
Finish. Copies of Apple?
Please get real. Apple is probably the worst proponent of decent finishes although in recent years it has taken to offering more options, but none of them anywhere near the sophistication of some Android phones. My favourite finish of 2023. Please let me know which iPhone it was copied from?
Lenses and computational photography. 'The better camera'.
Sorry. No. Until relatively recently, Apple was so far behind in certain photographic areas that you couldn't even take the photo because it didn't have the hardware to do it. Low light and noise (especially on UW) were particular problems on iPhones. Back in the day (even after a year in beta) Portlait Mode wouldn't even let you press the shutter button if it deemed there wasn't enough light! Lack of a periscope option (until a few months ago and one model and limited functionality). Apple had a lead in video. iPhone 14 (or was is 13?) were criticised because the software was behind the new hardware in terms of tuning. Apple had finally increased the pixel count. So much for your 'implementation' claims. Anyway, for as great as iPhone photos can look (all flagship photography oriented phones offer great output) it can only take certain photos if the hardware is on board. It's been catching up over the last few years. Apple isn't the only company doing 'computational' photography either.
If I mentioned some existing features from Android it is because there is room for them on iPhones. Wouldn't you like them? The problem is Apple likes to drip feed them to users.
MagSafe? You mean magnets? Is that what they offered Qi? AFAIK Qi has its roadmap. Perhaps more interesting is precisely why Apple offered it in the first place. I'm sure the EU had something to do with it if only indirectly.
Apple has lagged far behind rivals in all aspects of charging, and shipping 5W chargers with iPhones for a decade was more of an insult than anything else.
Ten years of Lightning (with basically zero improvements to transfer speeds) wasn't anything to write home about either.
Your typical 'put down' reply was unnecessary so I've dunked it into a bucket of reality.
It went right over your head but my points (listed) were about exactly where Apple could improve things on the iPhone. There is a lot of room for improvement. I mean a LOT, and a lot of it is already on the market. Whether compelling or not is a different story.
You love to band around terms like 'knock off', 'copy' and 'clone' without stopping even for a moment to realise that for a few years now Apple has been implementing major features from rivals but no one is telling you that it's Apple doing the 'knocking off' are they? Reflect on that for a second.
Phones progress and blindly thinking everyone is out copying Apple is utterly absurd. Ludicrous. Nonsense as you often say.
Next you'll be telling me that a hole punch replacing the notch was really Android phones implementing Apple patents ahead of time.
Like I said, and I really want to drive this home to you. If you don't have the hardware, you are going to have a hard time producing certain features. I've given you a couple of examples in photography. It's the same with batteries and charging.
Let's look at cars. There is no possible way CarPlay can get anywhere near the Chinese on software/hardware integration because it doesn't have a role in the development of the hardware itself. Can you see that?
Is that reasonable to you?
That, potentially, is a major hurdle in one of Apple's key markets because if people here claim 'I'm not buying a car if it doesn't have CarPlay', it is not impossible to imagine that competitors offering both hardware and deep software integration into it, will end up offering a far superior experience because their phones actually take full advantage of what's on offer and extend back into their homes.
Your '3D TV' quip was incredibly ironic seeing how some cars can seamlessly video call among themselves and back home to the living room TV. Or that cars like the new AITO M9 actually have more screens than seats. And 2000W, 25 speaker sound systems with segmented AI voice integration.
The 'experience' is real and has been shipping for years now already and is only getting better while the only thing Apple has brought (and late) to market is a revamped CarPlay.
'Knock offs' , you say?
Instead of misplaced disdain for competing products you should at least be aware of what's happening outside the Apple world.
So, I actually took the time to look up how many Huawei Mate 60 were sold, in China in the first 8 weeks it has been available;
Eight weeks since its launch in August, the Mate 60 series has recorded 2.4 million units in domestic sales volume, according to earlier Counterpoint data.
Not that it matters, but Apple will still sell north of 200 million iPhones this year, 70% of which, or 140 million, are iPhone 15's. Given that Apple is in business to make a profit, there isn't much incentive to build boutique devices in limited quantity, including folding phones, but sure, works for Huawei given their lack of competitive SOC's.
As for your comment about cars; get back to us when you actually use and own one, as that is a relevant fact in your postulations about cars, because one of the big complaints about the industry, is that it can't deliver what the consumer wants at a price they can afford.
Me, I'm waiting for a hybrid small pickup from Toyota, the Stout, to compete with the Ford Maverick, and the Rampage expected from Stellantis, and no, I'm not looking for a "superior experience" from my iPhone connected to the entertainment system.
Sales are irrelevant to a topic about compelling features.
As I said, Apple chooses to drip feed features to users. If you decide to buy into that, that's your decision but it in no way changes the facts with regards to what I was replying to.
I don't need to own a car to understand the points I raised and prices in China came down. I regularly travel by car. My sister-in-law has had a 100% electric since 2017. Currently, almost all the Huawei branded options are seeing explosive sales. Not to mention BYD.
The Chinese are now disembarking in Europe. Looks like Chery is even going to open a plant in my neck of the woods.
BYD already has plans for hundreds of outlets across Europe.
If you are playing the market short term maybe, but in that case why would it matter in January when the model in question isn't due to ship until September/October?
If you are looking at a long term investment, one model is just a blip on your screen.
Most iPhone users will want to upgrade to a new iPhone. Most, would simply put off upgrading until something better comes along or bite the bullet if waiting isn't an option. Their options are few and far between.
Either way, Apple is likely to get the sale eventually.
A smaller number would probably consider switching but would that dramatically impact sales?
A recent report said Apple had been impacted and seen a sales decline as a result of not offering a folding option but the decline in that report was estimated at less than 10%.
Is it relevant? Yes, because those sales were lost from the most premium segment but overall I doubt it worries Apple too much.
Obviously, some markets will be more fickle than others. It is far more likely that a Spanish iPhone user will switch than a US iPhone user.
Another point is that there is currently a massive push into intelligent cars in China and a lot of that intelligence is coming from external players who also manufacture phones.
If you can get folding phone that integrates deeply with your car and everything else in your ecosystem, that will obviously appeal to some users. If Apple isn't offering a comparable feature set that might work against sales.
But that is the bigger picture and has little to do with whether the next iPhone model will be compelling or not.
For new potential features look no further than current Android phones:
New image sensors for cameras. Variable physical aperture. Ultra fast charging (wired and wireless) Improved lenses More options on finish Two way voice satellite communication. Ehem, AI. Flip and folding options.
There is still a lot that can be offered. Would some of that be compelling?
We would only look to the crummy knockoffs to see specs-as-features and poorly implemented “features” racing to be first. They’re adopting MagSafe into Qi. Their finishes are copies of Apple’s, often hilariously identically (tho can we ever forget your favorite Chinese knockoff for their KFC-branded red finish? lol). Apple’s sensors and lenses + computation still result in a better camera, despite the clones aping iOS Camera’s interface 100%.
Oooh AI! Yeah man, the new 3D tv set.
You are obviously on a roll of getting things completely backwards.
Let's run through some of them.
Specs as features and poorly implemented.
This is laughable in the extreme.
When two way voice satellite calls reached Android, surely the point was being able to have a real time two way conversion via satellite. Pitted against an iPhone that does not have that feature, which option would you prefer to have? Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't like that option or that it's just a spec as a feature?
It isn't and the implementation is just fine.
Finish. Copies of Apple?
Please get real. Apple is probably the worst proponent of decent finishes although in recent years it has taken to offering more options, but none of them anywhere near the sophistication of some Android phones. My favourite finish of 2023. Please let me know which iPhone it was copied from?
Lenses and computational photography. 'The better camera'.
Sorry. No. Until relatively recently, Apple was so far behind in certain photographic areas that you couldn't even take the photo because it didn't have the hardware to do it. Low light and noise (especially on UW) were particular problems on iPhones. Back in the day (even after a year in beta) Portlait Mode wouldn't even let you press the shutter button if it deemed there wasn't enough light! Lack of a periscope option (until a few months ago and one model and limited functionality). Apple had a lead in video. iPhone 14 (or was is 13?) were criticised because the software was behind the new hardware in terms of tuning. Apple had finally increased the pixel count. So much for your 'implementation' claims. Anyway, for as great as iPhone photos can look (all flagship photography oriented phones offer great output) it can only take certain photos if the hardware is on board. It's been catching up over the last few years. Apple isn't the only company doing 'computational' photography either.
If I mentioned some existing features from Android it is because there is room for them on iPhones. Wouldn't you like them? The problem is Apple likes to drip feed them to users.
MagSafe? You mean magnets? Is that what they offered Qi? AFAIK Qi has its roadmap. Perhaps more interesting is precisely why Apple offered it in the first place. I'm sure the EU had something to do with it if only indirectly.
Apple has lagged far behind rivals in all aspects of charging, and shipping 5W chargers with iPhones for a decade was more of an insult than anything else.
Ten years of Lightning (with basically zero improvements to transfer speeds) wasn't anything to write home about either.
Your typical 'put down' reply was unnecessary so I've dunked it into a bucket of reality.
It went right over your head but my points (listed) were about exactly where Apple could improve things on the iPhone. There is a lot of room for improvement. I mean a LOT, and a lot of it is already on the market. Whether compelling or not is a different story.
You love to band around terms like 'knock off', 'copy' and 'clone' without stopping even for a moment to realise that for a few years now Apple has been implementing major features from rivals but no one is telling you that it's Apple doing the 'knocking off' are they? Reflect on that for a second.
Phones progress and blindly thinking everyone is out copying Apple is utterly absurd. Ludicrous. Nonsense as you often say.
Next you'll be telling me that a hole punch replacing the notch was really Android phones implementing Apple patents ahead of time.
Like I said, and I really want to drive this home to you. If you don't have the hardware, you are going to have a hard time producing certain features. I've given you a couple of examples in photography. It's the same with batteries and charging.
Let's look at cars. There is no possible way CarPlay can get anywhere near the Chinese on software/hardware integration because it doesn't have a role in the development of the hardware itself. Can you see that?
Is that reasonable to you?
That, potentially, is a major hurdle in one of Apple's key markets because if people here claim 'I'm not buying a car if it doesn't have CarPlay', it is not impossible to imagine that competitors offering both hardware and deep software integration into it, will end up offering a far superior experience because their phones actually take full advantage of what's on offer and extend back into their homes.
Your '3D TV' quip was incredibly ironic seeing how some cars can seamlessly video call among themselves and back home to the living room TV. Or that cars like the new AITO M9 actually have more screens than seats. And 2000W, 25 speaker sound systems with segmented AI voice integration.
The 'experience' is real and has been shipping for years now already and is only getting better while the only thing Apple has brought (and late) to market is a revamped CarPlay.
'Knock offs' , you say?
Instead of misplaced disdain for competing products you should at least be aware of what's happening outside the Apple world.
So, I actually took the time to look up how many Huawei Mate 60 were sold, in China in the first 8 weeks it has been available;
Eight weeks since its launch in August, the Mate 60 series has recorded 2.4 million units in domestic sales volume, according to earlier Counterpoint data.
Not that it matters, but Apple will still sell north of 200 million iPhones this year, 70% of which, or 140 million, are iPhone 15's. Given that Apple is in business to make a profit, there isn't much incentive to build boutique devices in limited quantity, including folding phones, but sure, works for Huawei given their lack of competitive SOC's.
As for your comment about cars; get back to us when you actually use and own one, as that is a relevant fact in your postulations about cars, because one of the big complaints about the industry, is that it can't deliver what the consumer wants at a price they can afford.
Me, I'm waiting for a hybrid small pickup from Toyota, the Stout, to compete with the Ford Maverick, and the Rampage expected from Stellantis, and no, I'm not looking for a "superior experience" from my iPhone connected to the entertainment system.
Sales are irrelevant to a topic about compelling features.
As I said, Apple chooses to drip feed features to users. If you decide to buy into that, that's your decision but it in no way changes the facts with regards to what I was replying to.
I don't need to own a car to understand the points I raised and prices in China came down. I regularly travel by car. My sister-in-law has had a 100% electric since 2017. Currently, almost all the Huawei branded options are seeing explosive sales. Not to mention BYD.
The Chinese are now disembarking in Europe. Looks like Chery is even going to open a plant in my neck of the woods.
BYD already has plans for hundreds of outlets across Europe.
Sales are always relevant, as you should know, because you always bring it up when it is favorable to Huawei. Well, in this case, Huawei's sales are increasing, but from a very low position in the market, and even with that, Huawei has to compete with other Chinese OEM's, not to mention Apple, in the rest of the world.
So, you aren't a consumer of cars, but you are happy to see China attempt to steamroller EU current manufacturer's. Noted.
In the past, auto manufacturing was a cornerstone of industrial power. I doubt that the EU is going to be friendly to China's industry moving in.
If you are playing the market short term maybe, but in that case why would it matter in January when the model in question isn't due to ship until September/October?
If you are looking at a long term investment, one model is just a blip on your screen.
Most iPhone users will want to upgrade to a new iPhone. Most, would simply put off upgrading until something better comes along or bite the bullet if waiting isn't an option. Their options are few and far between.
Either way, Apple is likely to get the sale eventually.
A smaller number would probably consider switching but would that dramatically impact sales?
A recent report said Apple had been impacted and seen a sales decline as a result of not offering a folding option but the decline in that report was estimated at less than 10%.
Is it relevant? Yes, because those sales were lost from the most premium segment but overall I doubt it worries Apple too much.
Obviously, some markets will be more fickle than others. It is far more likely that a Spanish iPhone user will switch than a US iPhone user.
Another point is that there is currently a massive push into intelligent cars in China and a lot of that intelligence is coming from external players who also manufacture phones.
If you can get folding phone that integrates deeply with your car and everything else in your ecosystem, that will obviously appeal to some users. If Apple isn't offering a comparable feature set that might work against sales.
But that is the bigger picture and has little to do with whether the next iPhone model will be compelling or not.
For new potential features look no further than current Android phones:
New image sensors for cameras. Variable physical aperture. Ultra fast charging (wired and wireless) Improved lenses More options on finish Two way voice satellite communication. Ehem, AI. Flip and folding options.
There is still a lot that can be offered. Would some of that be compelling?
We would only look to the crummy knockoffs to see specs-as-features and poorly implemented “features” racing to be first. They’re adopting MagSafe into Qi. Their finishes are copies of Apple’s, often hilariously identically (tho can we ever forget your favorite Chinese knockoff for their KFC-branded red finish? lol). Apple’s sensors and lenses + computation still result in a better camera, despite the clones aping iOS Camera’s interface 100%.
Oooh AI! Yeah man, the new 3D tv set.
You are obviously on a roll of getting things completely backwards.
Let's run through some of them.
Specs as features and poorly implemented.
This is laughable in the extreme.
When two way voice satellite calls reached Android, surely the point was being able to have a real time two way conversion via satellite. Pitted against an iPhone that does not have that feature, which option would you prefer to have? Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't like that option or that it's just a spec as a feature?
It isn't and the implementation is just fine.
Finish. Copies of Apple?
Please get real. Apple is probably the worst proponent of decent finishes although in recent years it has taken to offering more options, but none of them anywhere near the sophistication of some Android phones. My favourite finish of 2023. Please let me know which iPhone it was copied from?
Lenses and computational photography. 'The better camera'.
Sorry. No. Until relatively recently, Apple was so far behind in certain photographic areas that you couldn't even take the photo because it didn't have the hardware to do it. Low light and noise (especially on UW) were particular problems on iPhones. Back in the day (even after a year in beta) Portlait Mode wouldn't even let you press the shutter button if it deemed there wasn't enough light! Lack of a periscope option (until a few months ago and one model and limited functionality). Apple had a lead in video. iPhone 14 (or was is 13?) were criticised because the software was behind the new hardware in terms of tuning. Apple had finally increased the pixel count. So much for your 'implementation' claims. Anyway, for as great as iPhone photos can look (all flagship photography oriented phones offer great output) it can only take certain photos if the hardware is on board. It's been catching up over the last few years. Apple isn't the only company doing 'computational' photography either.
If I mentioned some existing features from Android it is because there is room for them on iPhones. Wouldn't you like them? The problem is Apple likes to drip feed them to users.
MagSafe? You mean magnets? Is that what they offered Qi? AFAIK Qi has its roadmap. Perhaps more interesting is precisely why Apple offered it in the first place. I'm sure the EU had something to do with it if only indirectly.
Apple has lagged far behind rivals in all aspects of charging, and shipping 5W chargers with iPhones for a decade was more of an insult than anything else.
Ten years of Lightning (with basically zero improvements to transfer speeds) wasn't anything to write home about either.
Your typical 'put down' reply was unnecessary so I've dunked it into a bucket of reality.
It went right over your head but my points (listed) were about exactly where Apple could improve things on the iPhone. There is a lot of room for improvement. I mean a LOT, and a lot of it is already on the market. Whether compelling or not is a different story.
You love to band around terms like 'knock off', 'copy' and 'clone' without stopping even for a moment to realise that for a few years now Apple has been implementing major features from rivals but no one is telling you that it's Apple doing the 'knocking off' are they? Reflect on that for a second.
Phones progress and blindly thinking everyone is out copying Apple is utterly absurd. Ludicrous. Nonsense as you often say.
Next you'll be telling me that a hole punch replacing the notch was really Android phones implementing Apple patents ahead of time.
Like I said, and I really want to drive this home to you. If you don't have the hardware, you are going to have a hard time producing certain features. I've given you a couple of examples in photography. It's the same with batteries and charging.
Let's look at cars. There is no possible way CarPlay can get anywhere near the Chinese on software/hardware integration because it doesn't have a role in the development of the hardware itself. Can you see that?
Is that reasonable to you?
That, potentially, is a major hurdle in one of Apple's key markets because if people here claim 'I'm not buying a car if it doesn't have CarPlay', it is not impossible to imagine that competitors offering both hardware and deep software integration into it, will end up offering a far superior experience because their phones actually take full advantage of what's on offer and extend back into their homes.
Your '3D TV' quip was incredibly ironic seeing how some cars can seamlessly video call among themselves and back home to the living room TV. Or that cars like the new AITO M9 actually have more screens than seats. And 2000W, 25 speaker sound systems with segmented AI voice integration.
The 'experience' is real and has been shipping for years now already and is only getting better while the only thing Apple has brought (and late) to market is a revamped CarPlay.
'Knock offs' , you say?
Instead of misplaced disdain for competing products you should at least be aware of what's happening outside the Apple world.
So, I actually took the time to look up how many Huawei Mate 60 were sold, in China in the first 8 weeks it has been available;
Eight weeks since its launch in August, the Mate 60 series has recorded 2.4 million units in domestic sales volume, according to earlier Counterpoint data.
Not that it matters, but Apple will still sell north of 200 million iPhones this year, 70% of which, or 140 million, are iPhone 15's. Given that Apple is in business to make a profit, there isn't much incentive to build boutique devices in limited quantity, including folding phones, but sure, works for Huawei given their lack of competitive SOC's.
As for your comment about cars; get back to us when you actually use and own one, as that is a relevant fact in your postulations about cars, because one of the big complaints about the industry, is that it can't deliver what the consumer wants at a price they can afford.
Me, I'm waiting for a hybrid small pickup from Toyota, the Stout, to compete with the Ford Maverick, and the Rampage expected from Stellantis, and no, I'm not looking for a "superior experience" from my iPhone connected to the entertainment system.
Sales are irrelevant to a topic about compelling features.
As I said, Apple chooses to drip feed features to users. If you decide to buy into that, that's your decision but it in no way changes the facts with regards to what I was replying to.
I don't need to own a car to understand the points I raised and prices in China came down. I regularly travel by car. My sister-in-law has had a 100% electric since 2017. Currently, almost all the Huawei branded options are seeing explosive sales. Not to mention BYD.
The Chinese are now disembarking in Europe. Looks like Chery is even going to open a plant in my neck of the woods.
BYD already has plans for hundreds of outlets across Europe.
Sales are always relevant, as you should know, because you always bring it up when it is favorable to Huawei. Well, in this case, Huawei's sales are increasing, but from a very low position in the market, and even with that, Huawei has to compete with other Chinese OEM's, not to mention Apple, in the rest of the world.
So, you aren't a consumer of cars, but you are happy to see China attempt to steamroller EU current manufacturer's. Noted.
In the past, auto manufacturing was a cornerstone of industrial power. I doubt that the EU is going to be friendly to China's industry moving in.
But this thread is squarely on the 'compelling' features that may or may not lead to sales, and my point was mainly on said features.
Sales in the context here and the bulk of my reply are irrelevant.
Comments
Oooh AI! Yeah man, the new 3D tv set.
Let's run through some of them.
Specs as features and poorly implemented.
This is laughable in the extreme.
When two way voice satellite calls reached Android, surely the point was being able to have a real time two way conversion via satellite. Pitted against an iPhone that does not have that feature, which option would you prefer to have? Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't like that option or that it's just a spec as a feature?
It isn't and the implementation is just fine.
Finish. Copies of Apple?
Please get real. Apple is probably the worst proponent of decent finishes although in recent years it has taken to offering more options, but none of them anywhere near the sophistication of some Android phones. My favourite finish of 2023. Please let me know which iPhone it was copied from?
Lenses and computational photography. 'The better camera'.
Sorry. No. Until relatively recently, Apple was so far behind in certain photographic areas that you couldn't even take the photo because it didn't have the hardware to do it. Low light and noise (especially on UW) were particular problems on iPhones. Back in the day (even after a year in beta) Portlait Mode wouldn't even let you press the shutter button if it deemed there wasn't enough light! Lack of a periscope option (until a few months ago and one model and limited functionality). Apple had a lead in video. iPhone 14 (or was is 13?) were criticised because the software was behind the new hardware in terms of tuning. Apple had finally increased the pixel count. So much for your 'implementation' claims. Anyway, for as great as iPhone photos can look (all flagship photography oriented phones offer great output) it can only take certain photos if the hardware is on board. It's been catching up over the last few years. Apple isn't the only company doing 'computational' photography either.
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/reviews/huawei-p60-pro-review-a-mobile-photography-revelation
If I mentioned some existing features from Android it is because there is room for them on iPhones. Wouldn't you like them? The problem is Apple likes to drip feed them to users.
MagSafe? You mean magnets? Is that what they offered Qi? AFAIK Qi has its roadmap. Perhaps more interesting is precisely why Apple offered it in the first place. I'm sure the EU had something to do with it if only indirectly.
Apple has lagged far behind rivals in all aspects of charging, and shipping 5W chargers with iPhones for a decade was more of an insult than anything else.
Ten years of Lightning (with basically zero improvements to transfer speeds) wasn't anything to write home about either.
Your typical 'put down' reply was unnecessary so I've dunked it into a bucket of reality.
It went right over your head but my points (listed) were about exactly where Apple could improve things on the iPhone. There is a lot of room for improvement. I mean a LOT, and a lot of it is already on the market. Whether compelling or not is a different story.
You love to band around terms like 'knock off', 'copy' and 'clone' without stopping even for a moment to realise that for a few years now Apple has been implementing major features from rivals but no one is telling you that it's Apple doing the 'knocking off' are they? Reflect on that for a second.
Phones progress and blindly thinking everyone is out copying Apple is utterly absurd. Ludicrous. Nonsense as you often say.
Next you'll be telling me that a hole punch replacing the notch was really Android phones implementing Apple patents ahead of time.
Like I said, and I really want to drive this home to you. If you don't have the hardware, you are going to have a hard time producing certain features. I've given you a couple of examples in photography. It's the same with batteries and charging.
Let's look at cars. There is no possible way CarPlay can get anywhere near the Chinese on software/hardware integration because it doesn't have a role in the development of the hardware itself. Can you see that?
Is that reasonable to you?
That, potentially, is a major hurdle in one of Apple's key markets because if people here claim 'I'm not buying a car if it doesn't have CarPlay', it is not impossible to imagine that competitors offering both hardware and deep software integration into it, will end up offering a far superior experience because their phones actually take full advantage of what's on offer and extend back into their homes.
Your '3D TV' quip was incredibly ironic seeing how some cars can seamlessly video call among themselves and back home to the living room TV. Or that cars like the new AITO M9 actually have more screens than seats. And 2000W, 25 speaker sound systems with segmented AI voice integration.
The 'experience' is real and has been shipping for years now already and is only getting better while the only thing Apple has brought (and late) to market is a revamped CarPlay.
'Knock offs' , you say?
Instead of misplaced disdain for competing products you should at least be aware of what's happening outside the Apple world.
Not that it matters, but Apple will still sell north of 200 million iPhones this year, 70% of which, or 140 million, are iPhone 15's. Given that Apple is in business to make a profit, there isn't much incentive to build boutique devices in limited quantity, including folding phones, but sure, works for Huawei given their lack of competitive SOC's.
As for your comment about cars; get back to us when you actually use and own one, as that is a relevant fact in your postulations about cars, because one of the big complaints about the industry, is that it can't deliver what the consumer wants at a price they can afford.
Me, I'm waiting for a hybrid small pickup from Toyota, the Stout, to compete with the Ford Maverick, and the Rampage expected from Stellantis, and no, I'm not looking for a "superior experience" from my iPhone connected to the entertainment system.
https://www.slashgear.com/1480103/what-we-know-about-toyota-stout-pickup-truck/
https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/g44299876/2024-ram-rampage/
As I said, Apple chooses to drip feed features to users. If you decide to buy into that, that's your decision but it in no way changes the facts with regards to what I was replying to.
I don't need to own a car to understand the points I raised and prices in China came down. I regularly travel by car. My sister-in-law has had a 100% electric since 2017. Currently, almost all the Huawei branded options are seeing explosive sales. Not to mention BYD.
The Chinese are now disembarking in Europe. Looks like Chery is even going to open a plant in my neck of the woods.
BYD already has plans for hundreds of outlets across Europe.
So, you aren't a consumer of cars, but you are happy to see China attempt to steamroller EU current manufacturer's. Noted.
In the past, auto manufacturing was a cornerstone of industrial power. I doubt that the EU is going to be friendly to China's industry moving in.
Sales in the context here and the bulk of my reply are irrelevant.