Department of Justice antitrust filing against Apple said to be imminent, for the fourth c...

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 5

A new report claims that the US Department of Justice is in the "late stages" of investigating Apple and a wide-ranging complaint will be filed soon, but how -- or if -- it will all play out isn't actually clear.




Apple has reportedly been under investigation by the Department of Justice for about four years, and to date, nothing has happened. A report on Friday afternoon claims that a filing may happen soon -- or it may not.

The report, by the New York Times on Friday, citing three people familiar with the matter, say that a case may be filed as soon as the first half of this year. This "case filing soon" refrain has been common across similar reports for over five years, however.

Two of the unnamed sources say that senior leaders in the Justice Department are reviewing the investigation materials. The same sources say agency officials have met with Apple officials as recently as December as part of the investigative process.

The December meeting was likely about the tail-end of the Beeper saga, where Apple chose to limit a third party's access to iMessage servers. Ultimately, Beeper took one final action to provide as much bridged access as possible but took no further action.

The report on Friday even claims an imminent filing some escape room.

"No final decision has been made about whether a lawsuit should be filed or what it should include, and Apple has not had a final meeting with the Justice Department in which it can make its case to the government before a lawsuit is filed," the report says.

The report also says that if the Department of Justice decides to take action, it will be determined after it sees how Apple responds to European Union regulations and mandates. So far, it has already complied with the USB-C universal charger mandate, and a deadline for allowing third-party App Stores is approaching in 2024.

Four and a half years of imminent anti-trust action



It's unclear why this report is different than the last several times decisive action by the Department of Justice was said to happen soon.

In early 2023, it was claimed that the Justice Department was drafting an antitrust complaint against Apple. That complaint was reportedly about anti-competitive behavior by as it pertained to the App Store.

In August 2022, a complaint was said to be focused on complaints from tracker manufacturer Tile. That, too, has appeared to go nowhere as of yet, despite sources at the time saying that Department of Justice action was imminent.

Going back to 2021, the Department of Justice was examining how Apple was treating the Roblox developers. The complaint there was similar to Epic's and Apple's commission on in-app purchases and the inability to spin up a third-party App Store. This complaint was also said to be nearing completion, at this point, more than two years ago.

In June 2020, Department of Justice members and a coalition of state attorneys general spoke to several companies who believed Apple engages in anti-competitive behavior. It's unclear where that particular matter went or if it will be folded into a different complaint.

The originating event for this entire saga was in 2019. In October of 2019, the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee had asked Spotify to provide information on Apple's alleged anti-competitive behavior, and specifically how it pertains to Spotify's business. Spotify had alleged that Apple "gives themselves unfair advantages at every turn."



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 72
    We all know the DOJ was waiting for the outcome in the Epic vs Apple case. Now that Apple has won their case and the appeal the DOJ won’t move forward. 
    thtdanoxred oakwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 72
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,385member
    I wish the DOJ would leave Apple alone.  Apple is NOT a monopoly.  If you add up the market share of all of their "computing" devices (if you added up all macOS, iOS, iPadOS devices as a total), they are hovering in the  20% to 30%  range, as is Microsoft and Google in terms of OS's.  But in terms of market share of desktops/laptops, or just the smartphones, or just the tablets, then Apple has a much small market share.   Apple just has MANY different OSs due to the various products they make and their differentiation between them.

    Yeah, why would a computer company have to sell their OS to OEMs?  There's no law about that.  that's like telling a car company, you have to sell your drive train to OEMs, because you're selling too many cars under your own brand.

    People are not held to only being able to use Apple devices.  I know people that have an Android, Apple and Windows based products and they don't have a problem using it.  Sure, we might get certain features, but the main attraction to all devices by one company is usability/ease of use and support.  

    If a customer wants to switch to another smartphone brand, they can, anytime they want to. no one is forcing them to stick with Apple.

    As far as the App Store, it just makes sense for Apple to have their App Store, Microsoft has theirs that serves THEIR platforms, and Google has theirs to serve THEIR platform.  That's what customers want.  They want EASE of getting, managing the apps they use. The only issue is just battling between the App developers on how much they have to give up for one company to manage the App Store.
    williamlondondanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 72
    thttht Posts: 5,452member
    Every few months, the DOJ anti-trust division managers surely come together and game out if they can win an antitrust court case against Apple. And after each get together, the answer is no. Why they want to talk about this in public, who knows.

    They are surely just tracking that iPhone marketshare number. If it rises above a certain number, they will launch the suit. What that number is, is anyone's guess? 65%? Apple is also watching that number and gaming out what policies they should have as well.

    Everyone appears quite comfortable with MS owning the office automation and operating systems to the tune of 80 to 90% share. And MS segments Office features such that it pushes and maintains their operating system share, basically since the 1980s.
    danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 72
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,913member
    I wish we as a people of United States of America file law suit against DOJ for wasting tax dollars.
    watto_cobramacminion
  • Reply 5 of 72
    This continues to not make sense to many of course. Once again, Apple is not a utility or a charity or an NGO... it is a for profit company. People have other choices. Apple does not have a market monopoly. Android has a market monopoly. Google has a market monopoly. These complaints are mostly coming from companies that want Apple's customers on their terms so that their profits can go up. Not because they are protecting Apple users who have chosen to buy Apple products. We do not need their sham protests. If we were not happy with Apple, we could vote with our wallets. Many developers (but not Beeper LOL) bring huge value to Apple and should be recognized 'fairly' but I honestly do not know that formula should be. Again these software developers are interested in getting Apple's customers on terms that increase their profit. Understandable but seriously some of the demands are just ludicrous (side load with no cost?). They are not providing an unpaid public service by writing for iOS.

    And the DOJ working for justice and the consumer? How's the eBook market going after Bezos triggered the sham collusion investigation, sham court case, a huge Apple fine and leaving eBook market to Amazon? Amazon now has a protected monopoly, yet prices have not gone down, and authors are underpaid for their work, ... nicely done DOJ.
    thtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 72
    DOJ “What!? There’s an American company that’s not willing to destroy the rights to privacy of our citizens?! Let’s bankrupt them!”

    thtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 72
    thttht Posts: 5,452member
    designr said:
    According to another article these are the things they've been looking into:
    1. How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
    2. How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
    3. How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
    4. Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
    5. How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
    6. How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
    7. How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
    8. In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
    (Numbered only so I can address them specifically here.)
    1. Is probably just because Apple has great engineers.
    2. Totally Apple's prerogative.
    3. Might be a bit sketchy of Apple—and a legitimate reason for consumer/owner/user complaints.
    4. Not sure exactly what number 4 means.
    5. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    6. Might be sketchy of Apple too.
    7. Not sure about this one.
    8. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    All and all, of the various claims, complaints, and concerns leveled against Apple I would say that not allowing users to load apps from sources other than the Apple App Store perhaps carries the most legitimate weight. This is a bone that Apple can—and should—throw the regulators and anti-trust litigators before it's too late. What's more, Apple should seriously leave even more heavily into enabling a gold-standard platform for web apps (i.e., Progressive Web Apps). Surely they can't be making so much money from the App Store to risk bringing the rest of their profit and revenue structure come tumbling down. Just build the best damn phone (or tablet or computer) for running almost any kind of app (i.e., native, web, etc.) and loaded from anywhere. Do this and much of this brouhaha ends overnight.

    P.S. Apple just pulled another bone-head move of rejecting the 37 Signals Hey Calendar app: https://x.com/dhh/status/1743341929675493806 (here's a summary: https://world.hey.com/dhh/apple-rejects-the-hey-calendar-from-their-app-store-4316dc03)
    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.
    Apple owns their platform: 1st party devices only, the OS and platform only goes on their devices, and as such, every item on the list you have is up to them and them only. The DOJ is going to have a very difficult time winning a case at current marketshare numbers imo, and new laws have to be enacted for a DOJ case to work at Apple's current marketshare.

    The only recourse for the DOJ is for the marketshare number to hit some percentage of the market so that Apple could be declared to have monopolistic powers and different rules should apply to them. It's a number they have to convince the court of. Well, the other recourse is legislation.

    If Apple has 15% of the USA phone market, nobody would give a crap about how Apple manages the App Store and what limitations they put on 3rd party developers. So, it's a numbers game. Perhaps the DOJ could convince the court that 60% marketshare is enough? It's all going to boil down to a marketshare number.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 72
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,874member
    wood1208 said:
    I wish we as a people of United States of America file law suit against DOJ for wasting tax dollars.
    The Justice Dept. are doing this because other Corporations who want to make money and are pleading with the government to take action...... All this huffing and puffing isn't coming from nor isn't for the little guy.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 72
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,874member
    designr said:

    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.

    Apple isn't even close to Microsoft and Intel who together managed to git rid of all but one (Apple) of the vertical computer companies from the 1980's, with Apple being last man standing for now.

     Apple is only dominate in smartphones, tablets and watches in the US and Japan, yes they are at the upper 10% of the market in the rest of the world thru making the best hardware/software combo. (and they will never have marketshare like Wintel anywhere).

    Apple beat their competition largely thru building a better product, not withstanding fast copying by Google, Samsung and Qualcomm.


    thtwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 72
    designr said:
    tht said:
    designr said:
    According to another article these are the things they've been looking into:
    1. How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
    2. How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
    3. How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
    4. Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
    5. How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
    6. How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
    7. How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
    8. In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
    (Numbered only so I can address them specifically here.)
    1. Is probably just because Apple has great engineers.
    2. Totally Apple's prerogative.
    3. Might be a bit sketchy of Apple—and a legitimate reason for consumer/owner/user complaints.
    4. Not sure exactly what number 4 means.
    5. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    6. Might be sketchy of Apple too.
    7. Not sure about this one.
    8. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    All and all, of the various claims, complaints, and concerns leveled against Apple I would say that not allowing users to load apps from sources other than the Apple App Store perhaps carries the most legitimate weight. This is a bone that Apple can—and should—throw the regulators and anti-trust litigators before it's too late. What's more, Apple should seriously leave even more heavily into enabling a gold-standard platform for web apps (i.e., Progressive Web Apps). Surely they can't be making so much money from the App Store to risk bringing the rest of their profit and revenue structure come tumbling down. Just build the best damn phone (or tablet or computer) for running almost any kind of app (i.e., native, web, etc.) and loaded from anywhere. Do this and much of this brouhaha ends overnight.

    P.S. Apple just pulled another bone-head move of rejecting the 37 Signals Hey Calendar app: https://x.com/dhh/status/1743341929675493806 (here's a summary: https://world.hey.com/dhh/apple-rejects-the-hey-calendar-from-their-app-store-4316dc03)
    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.
    Apple owns their platform: 1st party devices only, the OS and platform only goes on their devices, and as such, every item on the list you have is up to them and them only.
    Interesting perspective. The implication is that Apple "owns" the devices that I have purchased. :|

    Bottom line is that I should be allowed to install apps from anyone I choose to.

    (NOTE: For some of the other items like Messages, I agree, that's their platform. But there's clearly a line here where Apple is extending its controlling, authoritarian hand into a device that I have paid for—and handsomely I might add.)

    Either way, Apple best be careful here.
    No. You wanting to download from alternate stores does Trump my right to a secure/private device.
    danoxwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 72
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,874member
    designr said:
    tht said:
    designr said:
    According to another article these are the things they've been looking into:
    1. How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
    2. How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
    3. How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
    4. Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
    5. How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
    6. How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
    7. How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
    8. In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
    (Numbered only so I can address them specifically here.)
    1. Is probably just because Apple has great engineers.
    2. Totally Apple's prerogative.
    3. Might be a bit sketchy of Apple—and a legitimate reason for consumer/owner/user complaints.
    4. Not sure exactly what number 4 means.
    5. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    6. Might be sketchy of Apple too.
    7. Not sure about this one.
    8. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    All and all, of the various claims, complaints, and concerns leveled against Apple I would say that not allowing users to load apps from sources other than the Apple App Store perhaps carries the most legitimate weight. This is a bone that Apple can—and should—throw the regulators and anti-trust litigators before it's too late. What's more, Apple should seriously leave even more heavily into enabling a gold-standard platform for web apps (i.e., Progressive Web Apps). Surely they can't be making so much money from the App Store to risk bringing the rest of their profit and revenue structure come tumbling down. Just build the best damn phone (or tablet or computer) for running almost any kind of app (i.e., native, web, etc.) and loaded from anywhere. Do this and much of this brouhaha ends overnight.

    P.S. Apple just pulled another bone-head move of rejecting the 37 Signals Hey Calendar app: https://x.com/dhh/status/1743341929675493806 (here's a summary: https://world.hey.com/dhh/apple-rejects-the-hey-calendar-from-their-app-store-4316dc03)
    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.
    Apple owns their platform: 1st party devices only, the OS and platform only goes on their devices, and as such, every item on the list you have is up to them and them only.
    Interesting perspective. The implication is that Apple "owns" the devices that I have purchased. :|

    Bottom line is that I should be allowed to install apps from anyone I choose to.

    (NOTE: For some of the other items like Messages, I agree, that's their platform. But there's clearly a line here where Apple is extending its controlling, authoritarian hand into a device that I have paid for—and handsomely I might add.)

    Either way, Apple best be careful here.

    Apple owns the Software OS, you own the hardware as is you don't get to copy the software and sell it separately not without the hardware.
    edited January 5 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 72
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,874member
    designr said:

    danox said:
    designr said:
    tht said:
    designr said:
    According to another article these are the things they've been looking into:
    1. How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
    2. How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
    3. How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
    4. Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
    5. How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
    6. How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
    7. How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
    8. In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
    (Numbered only so I can address them specifically here.)
    1. Is probably just because Apple has great engineers.
    2. Totally Apple's prerogative.
    3. Might be a bit sketchy of Apple—and a legitimate reason for consumer/owner/user complaints.
    4. Not sure exactly what number 4 means.
    5. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    6. Might be sketchy of Apple too.
    7. Not sure about this one.
    8. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    All and all, of the various claims, complaints, and concerns leveled against Apple I would say that not allowing users to load apps from sources other than the Apple App Store perhaps carries the most legitimate weight. This is a bone that Apple can—and should—throw the regulators and anti-trust litigators before it's too late. What's more, Apple should seriously leave even more heavily into enabling a gold-standard platform for web apps (i.e., Progressive Web Apps). Surely they can't be making so much money from the App Store to risk bringing the rest of their profit and revenue structure come tumbling down. Just build the best damn phone (or tablet or computer) for running almost any kind of app (i.e., native, web, etc.) and loaded from anywhere. Do this and much of this brouhaha ends overnight.

    P.S. Apple just pulled another bone-head move of rejecting the 37 Signals Hey Calendar app: https://x.com/dhh/status/1743341929675493806 (here's a summary: https://world.hey.com/dhh/apple-rejects-the-hey-calendar-from-their-app-store-4316dc03)
    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.
    Apple owns their platform: 1st party devices only, the OS and platform only goes on their devices, and as such, every item on the list you have is up to them and them only.
    Interesting perspective. The implication is that Apple "owns" the devices that I have purchased. :|

    Bottom line is that I should be allowed to install apps from anyone I choose to.

    (NOTE: For some of the other items like Messages, I agree, that's their platform. But there's clearly a line here where Apple is extending its controlling, authoritarian hand into a device that I have paid for—and handsomely I might add.)

    Either way, Apple best be careful here.

    Apple owns the Software OS, you own the hardware as is you don't get copy or change it and git your money back.
    And downloading software from somewhere else does neither of those. That's crazy talk.
    Apple owns the Software OS, you own the hardware as is you don't get to copy the software and sell it separately not without the hardware.

    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 72
    I've basically been against all these anti-trust actions (vs Microsoft, etc) over the decades.  It's understandable why the EU would pursue them, because they are engaged with economic warfare with the US via such legal actions -- that sounds a little crazy but I'm just boiling the coffee down to the stench at the bottom of the pot.  It makes no sense whatsoever for the US Government to be joining in and trying to destroy the most successful American companies.  I guess this is why some people are Republicans?  (I'm not, just trying to be generous).

    Apple Watch works better with iOS than Android?  Really?  You don't say?  

    I jumped to an Android phone (Samsung) in 2015.  It was magnificent in many ways but it was clearly designed to make your life hell if you were a Mac user, and it was quite successful at that.  I'm a grown-up so I didn't file a lawsuit, I just switched backed to iPhone, where I've been ever since (and will never leave again after being chagrined by that experience).

    It seems like the marching orders for the justice department are: if an American company has its head above water, we have to try and drown it.

    I'm not gonna indulge in any conspiracy theories about why that would be the US government's stance, but it's certainly ripe for examination.  Probably just hatefulness mated with stupidity.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 72
    thttht Posts: 5,452member
    designr said:
    tht said:
    designr said:
    According to another article these are the things they've been looking into:
    1. How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
    2. How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
    3. How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
    4. Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
    5. How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
    6. How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
    7. How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
    8. In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
    (Numbered only so I can address them specifically here.)
    1. Is probably just because Apple has great engineers.
    2. Totally Apple's prerogative.
    3. Might be a bit sketchy of Apple—and a legitimate reason for consumer/owner/user complaints.
    4. Not sure exactly what number 4 means.
    5. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    6. Might be sketchy of Apple too.
    7. Not sure about this one.
    8. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    All and all, of the various claims, complaints, and concerns leveled against Apple I would say that not allowing users to load apps from sources other than the Apple App Store perhaps carries the most legitimate weight. This is a bone that Apple can—and should—throw the regulators and anti-trust litigators before it's too late. What's more, Apple should seriously leave even more heavily into enabling a gold-standard platform for web apps (i.e., Progressive Web Apps). Surely they can't be making so much money from the App Store to risk bringing the rest of their profit and revenue structure come tumbling down. Just build the best damn phone (or tablet or computer) for running almost any kind of app (i.e., native, web, etc.) and loaded from anywhere. Do this and much of this brouhaha ends overnight.

    P.S. Apple just pulled another bone-head move of rejecting the 37 Signals Hey Calendar app: https://x.com/dhh/status/1743341929675493806 (here's a summary: https://world.hey.com/dhh/apple-rejects-the-hey-calendar-from-their-app-store-4316dc03)
    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.
    Apple owns their platform: 1st party devices only, the OS and platform only goes on their devices, and as such, every item on the list you have is up to them and them only.
    Interesting perspective. The implication is that Apple "owns" the devices that I have purchased. :|

    Bottom line is that I should be allowed to install apps from anyone I choose to.

    (NOTE: For some of the other items like Messages, I agree, that's their platform. But there's clearly a line here where Apple is extending its controlling, authoritarian hand into a device that I have paid for—and handsomely I might add.)

    Either way, Apple best be careful here.
    You know what I mean. Apple is the only company selling iPhones. 1st party devices only, and therefore no market for Apple to abuse. Market abuse is the easy way to accuse a company of monopolistic abuse, like Epic vs Google. Since Apple is the only company selling iPhones, there is no market there as you can't have "monopoly" on your own products. It's not a winnable attack vector for the DOJ. Everything cascades from that.

    Yes, Apple is nearing marketshare numbers in the USA that is hard to believe for a premium hardware vendor. They will need to change policies if that marketshare number goes above 60%. 65% is one of those accepted levels for antitrust actions.

    If the USA wants a remedy, they could outlaw subsidies from carriers and have everyone pay for the phone upfront. This in effect rebalances who can buy an iPhone and will increase sales of lower end phones, but it will never pass a court challenge.


    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 72
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,727member
    DOIJ won’t move until the EU does. 

    Since the EU is corrupt, the department of injustice will let them set the fake precedent so that they can feel better about ignoring the real precedent from the Epuc verdicts. 
    edited January 5 watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 72
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,727member
    designr said:
    danox said:
    designr said:

    danox said:
    designr said:
    tht said:
    designr said:
    According to another article these are the things they've been looking into:
    1. How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
    2. How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
    3. How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
    4. Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
    5. How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
    6. How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
    7. How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
    8. In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
    (Numbered only so I can address them specifically here.)
    1. Is probably just because Apple has great engineers.
    2. Totally Apple's prerogative.
    3. Might be a bit sketchy of Apple—and a legitimate reason for consumer/owner/user complaints.
    4. Not sure exactly what number 4 means.
    5. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    6. Might be sketchy of Apple too.
    7. Not sure about this one.
    8. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    All and all, of the various claims, complaints, and concerns leveled against Apple I would say that not allowing users to load apps from sources other than the Apple App Store perhaps carries the most legitimate weight. This is a bone that Apple can—and should—throw the regulators and anti-trust litigators before it's too late. What's more, Apple should seriously leave even more heavily into enabling a gold-standard platform for web apps (i.e., Progressive Web Apps). Surely they can't be making so much money from the App Store to risk bringing the rest of their profit and revenue structure come tumbling down. Just build the best damn phone (or tablet or computer) for running almost any kind of app (i.e., native, web, etc.) and loaded from anywhere. Do this and much of this brouhaha ends overnight.

    P.S. Apple just pulled another bone-head move of rejecting the 37 Signals Hey Calendar app: https://x.com/dhh/status/1743341929675493806 (here's a summary: https://world.hey.com/dhh/apple-rejects-the-hey-calendar-from-their-app-store-4316dc03)
    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.
    Apple owns their platform: 1st party devices only, the OS and platform only goes on their devices, and as such, every item on the list you have is up to them and them only.
    Interesting perspective. The implication is that Apple "owns" the devices that I have purchased. :|

    Bottom line is that I should be allowed to install apps from anyone I choose to.

    (NOTE: For some of the other items like Messages, I agree, that's their platform. But there's clearly a line here where Apple is extending its controlling, authoritarian hand into a device that I have paid for—and handsomely I might add.)

    Either way, Apple best be careful here.

    Apple owns the Software OS, you own the hardware as is you don't get copy or change it and git your money back.
    And downloading software from somewhere else does neither of those. That's crazy talk.
    Apple owns the Software OS, you own the hardware as is you don't get to copy the software and sell it separately not without the hardware.

    Stop it. No one is suggesting doing that. People just want to be able to download apps without (necessarily) getting them from Apple's App Store. This is not complicated or unreasonable. Except for Apple Fanbois I suppose.
    And Nintendo customers want to download games from Steam. When you buy Apple, you buy Apple. If you want the Wild West, you buy android. 

    There is choice. That’s the market. 

    Some folks just enjoy breaking a nice, working system. No real logic. Just to see it broken. 

    There is too much at work for everyone to have everything due to the fact that the world isn’t perfect snd has actual bad actors in it. 

    If apple were to open the iPhone up to everything under the sun, piracy increase, hurting their rep, consumers with malicious downloads, and developers. Who remembers the warez sites that were so problematic in the Wild West days of the internet. Phones are an even better target since they’re so rich with personal data. 

    Next thing, apple is on the wrong end of multiple lawsuits (even from the same DOJ AND EU)  related to bad things happening to customers phones, identity theft, IP theft, etc. 

    if Apple were to open it wide open, it would be bad for everyone. Can buskers lose security protections, apple loses the trust of its customers, developers lose  their profits, and the bad guys win. Again. Better to learn from history than repeat it. 

    What apple has done is provide a solution. In this way, piracy gets crushed, developers get paid, customers get protected, and even the few who want the Wild West again can jailbreak their phones - which also frees apple from being on the hook from the damage done by the malicious code people download. It’s already the best case scenario. 

    What is really at play here is an attempt to take apple down by sabotaging their incredible business structure. As Jobs solved the online music piracy (and associated malware anites) issue with iTunes, Apple has also solved app piracy (and associated malware sources) with the App Store.  

    It’s been fine for over a decade. Then all of a sudden some greedy slimes see a way to poke holes with those grungy fingers and they go for it. Better to break their fingers than let them make the holes bigger. 

    Apple has built a desireable product that is tied to a desireable service that most people want and pay good money ON PURPOSE to have. 

    There is literally nothing wrong. Everything is just right. The idiots trying to “fix” what’s not broken are either totally incompetent, have not done their diligence in understanding things like liability, or just plain corrupt and on the take. 

    These folks shouldn’t be trying to turn utopia into a ghetto. They should be thanking Apple for doing exactly the opposite. 




    libertyandfreeradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 72
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 842member
    Where is the monopoly in the computing and mobile phone marketplaces that are FILLED with choice for the consumer?! How is it helpful to the consumer if the DOJ forces Apple to do things that Apple customers not only don't want them to do, but actually chose Apple because they ddin't do those things? Why don't I get the freedom to choose Apple's walled garden approach to hardware/software integration?  Notice that it's not Apple customers clamoring for side-loading of iOS apps and a third party iOS app marketplace. This would be the most anti-consumer DOJ case ever brought. 
    edited January 6 9secondkox2radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 72
    red oakred oak Posts: 1,089member
    designr said:
    tht said:
    designr said:
    According to another article these are the things they've been looking into:
    1. How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
    2. How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
    3. How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
    4. Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
    5. How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
    6. How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
    7. How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
    8. In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
    (Numbered only so I can address them specifically here.)
    1. Is probably just because Apple has great engineers.
    2. Totally Apple's prerogative.
    3. Might be a bit sketchy of Apple—and a legitimate reason for consumer/owner/user complaints.
    4. Not sure exactly what number 4 means.
    5. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    6. Might be sketchy of Apple too.
    7. Not sure about this one.
    8. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    All and all, of the various claims, complaints, and concerns leveled against Apple I would say that not allowing users to load apps from sources other than the Apple App Store perhaps carries the most legitimate weight. This is a bone that Apple can—and should—throw the regulators and anti-trust litigators before it's too late. What's more, Apple should seriously leave even more heavily into enabling a gold-standard platform for web apps (i.e., Progressive Web Apps). Surely they can't be making so much money from the App Store to risk bringing the rest of their profit and revenue structure come tumbling down. Just build the best damn phone (or tablet or computer) for running almost any kind of app (i.e., native, web, etc.) and loaded from anywhere. Do this and much of this brouhaha ends overnight.

    P.S. Apple just pulled another bone-head move of rejecting the 37 Signals Hey Calendar app: https://x.com/dhh/status/1743341929675493806 (here's a summary: https://world.hey.com/dhh/apple-rejects-the-hey-calendar-from-their-app-store-4316dc03)
    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.
    Apple owns their platform: 1st party devices only, the OS and platform only goes on their devices, and as such, every item on the list you have is up to them and them only.
    Interesting perspective. The implication is that Apple "owns" the devices that I have purchased. :|

    Bottom line is that I should be allowed to install apps from anyone I choose to.

    (NOTE: For some of the other items like Messages, I agree, that's their platform. But there's clearly a line here where Apple is extending its controlling, authoritarian hand into a device that I have paid for—and handsomely I might add.)

    Either way, Apple best be careful here.
    You knew that when you bought your iPhone.  This is not a “surprise” or different from the implied contract of sale.   If you feel this way, you should strongly consider moving to Android 
    williamlondon13485watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 72
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    Whether anyone agrees, there will come a time, and sooner rather than later, when Apple has to face more serious antitrust charges than what they've seen so far. They're way past the point of pretending their services and ecosystem is so small as not to matter when there's no richer or more powerful tech company on the planet.  

    So it will happen, but the final word on those charges is up in the air. I suspect it will be pretty limited when all is said and done, but not entirely a win.
    edited January 6
  • Reply 20 of 72
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,409member
    designr said:
    danox said:
    designr said:

    danox said:
    designr said:
    tht said:
    designr said:
    According to another article these are the things they've been looking into:
    1. How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
    2. How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
    3. How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
    4. Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
    5. How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
    6. How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
    7. How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
    8. In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
    (Numbered only so I can address them specifically here.)
    1. Is probably just because Apple has great engineers.
    2. Totally Apple's prerogative.
    3. Might be a bit sketchy of Apple—and a legitimate reason for consumer/owner/user complaints.
    4. Not sure exactly what number 4 means.
    5. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    6. Might be sketchy of Apple too.
    7. Not sure about this one.
    8. Would be solved by allowing users to load apps from alternative app stores.
    All and all, of the various claims, complaints, and concerns leveled against Apple I would say that not allowing users to load apps from sources other than the Apple App Store perhaps carries the most legitimate weight. This is a bone that Apple can—and should—throw the regulators and anti-trust litigators before it's too late. What's more, Apple should seriously leave even more heavily into enabling a gold-standard platform for web apps (i.e., Progressive Web Apps). Surely they can't be making so much money from the App Store to risk bringing the rest of their profit and revenue structure come tumbling down. Just build the best damn phone (or tablet or computer) for running almost any kind of app (i.e., native, web, etc.) and loaded from anywhere. Do this and much of this brouhaha ends overnight.

    P.S. Apple just pulled another bone-head move of rejecting the 37 Signals Hey Calendar app: https://x.com/dhh/status/1743341929675493806 (here's a summary: https://world.hey.com/dhh/apple-rejects-the-hey-calendar-from-their-app-store-4316dc03)
    P.P.S. Whether anyone here wants to admit it or not, Apple has become like the Microsoft we hated in the past (and IBM before them). Perhaps this is an inevitable outcome of success and size and dominance. But I think we all expected—perhaps quite naively—better from Apple.
    Apple owns their platform: 1st party devices only, the OS and platform only goes on their devices, and as such, every item on the list you have is up to them and them only.
    Interesting perspective. The implication is that Apple "owns" the devices that I have purchased. :|

    Bottom line is that I should be allowed to install apps from anyone I choose to.

    (NOTE: For some of the other items like Messages, I agree, that's their platform. But there's clearly a line here where Apple is extending its controlling, authoritarian hand into a device that I have paid for—and handsomely I might add.)

    Either way, Apple best be careful here.

    Apple owns the Software OS, you own the hardware as is you don't get copy or change it and git your money back.
    And downloading software from somewhere else does neither of those. That's crazy talk.
    Apple owns the Software OS, you own the hardware as is you don't get to copy the software and sell it separately not without the hardware.

    Stop it. No one is suggesting doing that. People just want to be able to download apps without (necessarily) getting them from Apple's App Store. This is not complicated or unreasonable. Except for Apple Fanbois I suppose.
    And Nintendo customers want to download games from Steam. When you buy Apple, you buy Apple. If you want the Wild West, you buy android. 
    Remember that Nintendo customers are not forced to purchase digital games from Nintendo.  They have the option to purchase physical games from many retailers. That option does not exist for iOS / iPadOS customers. 

    Do you have any issues running macOS, that is in the same line of Android and the "Wild West"?
    9secondkox2
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