The best Apple Vision Pro productivity apps at launch

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    thttht Posts: 5,599member
    danox said:
    tht said:
    It needs to have:

    Full fledged set of web browsers (Chrome, Safari, et al)
    MS Office that is feature equivalent to MS Office for Mac (Excel, Word, Powerpoint and Teams)
    Suite of comms apps (Teams, Slack, Zoom, Webex)
    Terminal.app and installable CLI packages

    They really didn't push to do this for iPad, but for Vision Pro? They really need to push to get as many PC apps as they can onto the platform. And iPads could ride its tail as it should be simple to get apps on  both platforms once you get one.


    None of those Apps will sell any Apple device let alone a Apple Vision Pro, that is a laundry list for a weak HP or Dell laptop and Safari can't run on it.
    Oh, you are sorely mistaken, or I just don't understand what you are saying.

    Without those, Macs would have died in 2002 or so. There was a field of 6 to 8 platforms in the 90s competing in the PC space, and the only non-MS survivor was Apple. The only reason it survived was because Microsoft Office made it to Mac OS X. OS/2, BeOS, NeXTSTEP, all the workstation Unixen, Amiga, Atari, so on and so forth, all died and MS Office not being on the platform was a big reason.

    Microsoft Office's dominance hasn't changed. You want to do office automation work in VisionOS, and have you company buy one for you, you need to have the IT required set of office apps. That's MS Office. If you don't have it, you will be regulated to a niche or specialist device, a device that doesn't serve the function of a PC. That is a fraught position to be in for a PC platform.

    Today, no new PC platform will be successful without the top 3, and I'd argue VP really needs the 4th. The VP is definitely a PC platform, designed to be used as a computer for the office, for home, and on the go. As such, it needs a minimum set of PC applications which major portions of the PC market uses.

    The XR apps are really for niche portions of the market, and mayhap there will be some app there that can drive sales of the VP, but if the dominant PC apps aren't there with it, it's a dangerous position to be in. There's a network effect of needing the apps and features everyone else is using, and all it takes is for a competitor to have those features plus the XR apps that drives the sales of the VP to starts eroding sales.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 38
    eriamjh said:
    I’m really not impressed with PCalc, OmniPlan, chat,  movie watching on VP, or any other app that just is gonna float in front of me on a. Ritual iPad.   I have an iPad for that.   

    It’s a spatial computing device.   We need spatial computing apps (3D).   We need Iron Man’s UI for whatever the heck he does.   

    New fangled 3D design app?  Video game environments that surround you?  

    Something to take advantage of the huge surround canvas (or 180 degrees of it).   Apple said not to use the terms AR or VR to its developers, but why am I wearing goggles if I can’t get up and walk around something?

    Without a new killer app, it will be essentially useless.   No one wants to relearn how to do the same thing on a different tool.   They want a new way to do something new.  

    Home designer/ Interior decorator apps?   Just throwing ideas out.  I know nothing.   
    "We need Iron Man’s UI for whatever the heck he does." that's what I have been telling people. I'd buy a Tony Stark computer, but putting on googles seems to me more like some theme park ride. How many of you still see 3D movies. After you are used to viewing them for more than 10 minutes you forget about the 3D experience. I will no longer pay extra for 3D. Do I really need to word docs in 3D let along the fact I can't all call someone over to see what I see. These will end up on the vertical market trash heap for gamers and people that want watch movies or TV by themselves.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 23 of 38
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,686member
    Rogue01 said:
    According to the first picture, they claim PCalc is going to make Vision Pro worth buying???  A $3500 calculator?  Really?

    There is no such thing as spatial computing.  That is Apple's marketing spin for AR.  Look up the definition of AR and that is exactly what Vision Pro is.  Apple will really have a hard time claiming their device is not AR, when it actually is AR.  "Augmented reality is an interactive experience that enhances the real world with computer-generated perceptual information."  That is exactly what Vision Pro does.  Another article had the best description for Vision Pro - It is an answer looking for a question.  The AR space is dead, always has been.  Plenty of surveys have been done and once the novelty wears off, the goggles sit in a bookshelf.  No one wants to wear goggles for hours.  No one wants to spend $3500 for a pair of goggles to run iPadOS apps, or PCalc.  No one will put on goggles to create a Word or PowerPoint document.  This is a product that doesn't solve any problems because no one has any interest in AR.  And that is Apple's marketing problem.  They won't be able to convince anyone that it is a 'needed' product.  It is not an iPhone solving a problem with bad smartphones.  For $3500, I would rather buy a Mac Studio and a Display and do so much more with it.

    The killer tech at CES was the transparent Micro LED TVs.  Those demos were incredible.

    So you want us to look up the definition of AR, but you can’t be bothered to look up spatial computing? Right.

    https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/what-is-spatial-computing-a-basic-explainer
    https://www.coursera.org/articles/what-is-spatial-computing
    https://www.uctoday.com/unified-communications/what-is-spatial-computing-the-basics/
    https://www.ptc.com/en/blogs/corporate/what-is-spatial-computing
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_computing

    Sorry, this is not some Apple marketing naming ploy to get people interested in something [not] new. Apple has used the term AR for years, there’s no reason they wouldn’t continue to do so if that’s all they were doing and, they actually still do use “AR”, but their headset is more than just an AR headset, it’s a general purpose computing device that has an intereface that exists in an AR environment.
    edited January 13 williamlondonForumPostwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 38

    When it comes to Vision Pro, I hope most reviewers won’t fall into the trap of expecting ever new tech device as the “one device to rule them all” and knock that product for not being able to accomplish that. For example, a tech device doesn’t need to do everything that other tech devices can accomplish. Case in point, the Apple Watch. Yes, the Apple Watch can perform most, if not all, the features of an iPhone but the Apple Watch came into its own by being good at just a few things that it could do - but do those few things exceptionally well. Likewise, the Apple Vision Pro can do productivity - so can a laptop - but productivity will never be Vision Pro’s defining feature nor its main reason for market success.

    ForumPostdanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 38
    thttht Posts: 5,599member
    eriamjh said:
    I’m really not impressed with PCalc, OmniPlan, chat,  movie watching on VP, or any other app that just is gonna float in front of me on a. Ritual iPad.   I have an iPad for that.   

    It’s a spatial computing device.   We need spatial computing apps (3D).   We need Iron Man’s UI for whatever the heck he does.   

    New fangled 3D design app?  Video game environments that surround you?  

    Something to take advantage of the huge surround canvas (or 180 degrees of it).   Apple said not to use the terms AR or VR to its developers, but why am I wearing goggles if I can’t get up and walk around something?

    Without a new killer app, it will be essentially useless.   No one wants to relearn how to do the same thing on a different tool.   They want a new way to do something new.  

    Home designer/ Interior decorator apps?   Just throwing ideas out.  I know nothing.   
    "We need Iron Man’s UI for whatever the heck he does." that's what I have been telling people. I'd buy a Tony Stark computer, but putting on googles seems to me more like some theme park ride. How many of you still see 3D movies. After you are used to viewing them for more than 10 minutes you forget about the 3D experience. I will no longer pay extra for 3D. Do I really need to word docs in 3D let along the fact I can't all call someone over to see what I see. These will end up on the vertical market trash heap for gamers and people that want watch movies or TV by themselves.
    Don't think of Vision OS as like a 3D movie. 3D movies are a feature of the platform, yes, but users will primarily interact with applications in Vision OS through 2D planes, basically like they do with current monitors today.

    If you look at some of the scenes in Ironman, they have 2 or 3 monitors on them. That's rather pedestrian for many a desk jockey today, especially with the monitor sizes from 15 years ago. People like to have a lot of display space because productivity scales with display space. The more you have, the more applications you can have in front of you, the more things you can do, and do it better.

    I don't think we've reached the point of diminishing returns yet on display space. I have a 27" and MBP16 display in front of me, and I want another 16" display at least so that I can have Outlook, Teams, and my working space (4 terminal windows, 10s of open Keynote, Preview, and Finder windows open) in front of me. My spouse has two 27" monitors and a Dell 13" in front of her, and she could use more, as we have the same type of issues. Outlook and Teams/Slack need their own 15" worth of display space.

    We really don't have the room to add more monitors. 60" by 20" of combined display space is about the practical, physical maximum amount of displays that can be placed on your typical 60* wide desk. I've seen people place three 27" monitors, one in portrait and 2 stacked in landscape or use a 45" 4K monitor, and there just isn't enough physical room.

    So, the promise of the Vision Pro is it allows more display space. Your display space is wherever you look. You can have 4, 5, 6 application views in front of you at a desk. So, the VP could be a productivity enhancer, and people pay a lot for that. An Outlook window, a Teams window, spreadsheet/word processor/chart windows, tens of web browser windows/tabs, shell windows, all in front of you. That's the big promise.

    There is still the question of whether the VP has enough pixels per degree to make small font sizes legible. At 30" focal distances with your average eyesight, probably. But at 20", which is basically an arm length away, maybe not? So, they probably need to have 40m pixels with variable focus lens eventually to capture all the use cases well.

    Lastly, the VP is something you wear. You can get up, walk past your virtual displays on the desk, go into the kitchen and look at the virtual displays there. Timers, shopping lists, oven temperatures, etc. Or, see a TV and stereo display in the living room playing stuff, etc. It's a mobile device, and your desk setup can be replicable anywhere you go.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 38
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,128member
    pslice said:
    I’ve used Mac since the 1st 128K Macintosh. I’ve purchased and used several iterations of Apple products.. But this latest is something I just cannot see myself using this latest product. I just cannot see the usefulness or the expense. Maybe I will regret saying this, but I seriously think Apple has created a beyond useful tool. Sorry, Apple.
    "I just cannot see the usefulness or the expense" is something that rings true for me as well...for now. I will need to actually try the thing to decide further. I too have used Apple products for a very long time, and my recollection is I had the same sort of "meh" reaction to...the iPhone. I waited a bit, and now can't imagine being without it in some form.  I've also made huge mistakes (looking at you Apple Newton) but other than knowing i'm not a launch day customer for the AVP is for now OK. Unlike the iPad and  Apple Watch where I *was* a launch day customer for each, the only difference here is that I can't yet tell what thing actually does *for me*. YMMV.

    Excited to see it for myself though. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 38
    If I am buying this, it will primarily for consumptions and not productions. Period. Immersive video/screen + spatial audio 🤌🏼
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 38
    eriamjh said:
    I’m really not impressed with PCalc, OmniPlan, chat,  movie watching on VP, or any other app that just is gonna float in front of me on a. Ritual iPad.   I have an iPad for that.   

    It’s a spatial computing device.   We need spatial computing apps (3D).   We need Iron Man’s UI for whatever the heck he does.   

    New fangled 3D design app?  Video game environments that surround you?  

    Something to take advantage of the huge surround canvas (or 180 degrees of it).   Apple said not to use the terms AR or VR to its developers, but why am I wearing goggles if I can’t get up and walk around something?

    Without a new killer app, it will be essentially useless.   No one wants to relearn how to do the same thing on a different tool.   They want a new way to do something new.  

    Home designer/ Interior decorator apps?   Just throwing ideas out.  I know nothing.   

    Watching movies is a killer app. Vision Pro image and sound should rival going to the best movie theaters, including 3D movies. Some content that would be great in a movie theater isn't released in theaters. Other content you can only see in theaters if you go during a short window. Vision Pro can give you that experience from home any time for any content.

    That said, it's a big mystery to me why Apple is completely downplaying or ignoring VR/Mixed reality gaming. To the point where I wonder if it even will allow apps like that. They show trailers of playing games on a virtual screen, but nothing where you are inside the game and your body is the controller.

    Same thing with fitness. VR/AR is great for fitness. Fitness is big for Apple. But nothing for that in Vision Pro.

    I did just see something that said Apple's full body tracking isn't finished. Which explains a lot. If true, it's really strange they couldn't get that working yet as long as they've been working on Vision Pro.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 38
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,254member
    MS office performance will be the make or break app suite. Sad but true.
  • Reply 30 of 38
    For general work I just don't see the utility of Vision Pro over a physical keyboard and ergonomic workstation. For an immersive experience I commend Apple for what they appear to have achieved, but the fact remains that most of what we do does not require immersion. Vision Pro is not going to be a productivity platform at all, not in the way that iPad has become. I believe as advanced as it is, the novelty of the 'headset experience' is going to wear-off extremely quickly. The average user will either NEED or WANT to remove-and-replace the headset constantly throughout the day to interact with others, negotiate their environment and just gain relief from wearing it.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 31 of 38
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,520member
    eriamjh said:
    I’m really not impressed with PCalc, OmniPlan, chat,  movie watching on VP, or any other app that just is gonna float in front of me on a. Ritual iPad.   I have an iPad for that.   

    It’s a spatial computing device.   We need spatial computing apps (3D).   We need Iron Man’s UI for whatever the heck he does.   

    New fangled 3D design app?  Video game environments that surround you?  

    Something to take advantage of the huge surround canvas (or 180 degrees of it).   Apple said not to use the terms AR or VR to its developers, but why am I wearing goggles if I can’t get up and walk around something?

    Without a new killer app, it will be essentially useless.   No one wants to relearn how to do the same thing on a different tool.   They want a new way to do something new.  

    Home designer/ Interior decorator apps?   Just throwing ideas out.  I know nothing.   
    I agree. Maybe an app that provides context specific advice to help people with whatever they are doing. Cooking, repairing or assembling something, etc. 
  • Reply 32 of 38
    red oakred oak Posts: 1,104member
    This is getting real.  Very exciting to hear all the app development going on, plus access to all iPad apps 

    Starting to get the feeling this is going to be much bigger than we all imagined
  • Reply 33 of 38
    abriden said:
    For general work I just don't see the utility of Vision Pro over a physical keyboard and ergonomic workstation. For an immersive experience I commend Apple for what they appear to have achieved, but the fact remains that most of what we do does not require immersion. Vision Pro is not going to be a productivity platform at all, not in the way that iPad has become. I believe as advanced as it is, the novelty of the 'headset experience' is going to wear-off extremely quickly. The average user will either NEED or WANT to remove-and-replace the headset constantly throughout the day to interact with others, negotiate their environment and just gain relief from wearing it.
    Just like with the iPad, you can use a physical keyboard, trackpad, etc. Just like with AirPods Pro transparency mode, you can interact with others and negotiate the environment. It remains to be seen if needing relief from wearing it is better or worse than needing relief from looking down at an iPad or iPhone screen. because of transparency. One reason Apple took so long to release Vision Pro is they needed displays to make visual transparency work as well as audio transparency.

    iPad has 1 smallish screen big enough to run 1 or maybe 2 apps on an 8 to 13 inch screen. Vision Pro can run many apps at once, each with their own large display. Watch a movie on an iPad, say on an airplane, and you have an 8 to 13 inch screen to watch it on. Watch the same movie on Vision Pro and you have a full movie theater.  Same thing working or playing games on an airplane.

    Travel is a big use case. You aren't going to bring your Mac's 27 or 35" displays when you travel. Anyone who doesn't program shouldn't need to bring their Mac when they travel. Anyone who does program can bring their MacBook and still have a large display like they use at home while traveling. And can mix the Mac display with apps running natively on Vision Pro. So things you leave running like messages, safari, etc, aren't competing for screen space on the single Mac screen. They are instead sitting beside the Mac screen. All in your hotel room.

    tht
  • Reply 34 of 38

    blastdoor said:
    eriamjh said:
    I’m really not impressed with PCalc, OmniPlan, chat,  movie watching on VP, or any other app that just is gonna float in front of me on a. Ritual iPad.   I have an iPad for that.   

    It’s a spatial computing device.   We need spatial computing apps (3D).   We need Iron Man’s UI for whatever the heck he does.   

    New fangled 3D design app?  Video game environments that surround you?  

    Something to take advantage of the huge surround canvas (or 180 degrees of it).   Apple said not to use the terms AR or VR to its developers, but why am I wearing goggles if I can’t get up and walk around something?

    Without a new killer app, it will be essentially useless.   No one wants to relearn how to do the same thing on a different tool.   They want a new way to do something new.  

    Home designer/ Interior decorator apps?   Just throwing ideas out.  I know nothing.   
    I agree. Maybe an app that provides context specific advice to help people with whatever they are doing. Cooking, repairing or assembling something, etc. 
    Apple has been really quiet about AI. Vision Pro certainly makes sense as a place to have an AI personal assistant run.
    blastdoor
  • Reply 35 of 38
    thttht Posts: 5,599member
    entropys said:
    MS office performance will be the make or break app suite. Sad but true.
    For Enterprise and Education markets most definitely.

    Microsoft conveniently segments the Office suite so that the Windows version of Office is always best, thusly always protecting both their Windows and Office share. It's been going on for 30 years, and will continue on until, I don't know, PDF can be extended to natively support editing of spreadsheets, layout and word processor programs? Or Latex is extended to be interchangeably both a WYSIWYG app and a layout processing app? This doesn't include the app suite segmentation where Project, Visio, Access et al are not in the Windows versions.

    Unfortunately, MS will likely use the iPad version of Office instead of the macOS version of Office, which has less features than than Office for Mac, less than Office for Web, and obviously less features than Office for Windows. And then there is the rather frustrating file incompatibilities between platform versions, also a nice moat for Office for Windows.

    It's been nearly 40 years, and it should not be that case that an Powerpoint file opened in Powerpoint for Mac looks different than Powerpoint for Windows. It's not even an issue with different features being implemented. Just plain vanilla features of Powerpoint, or Word, or even Excel. MS has been playing the game of using file incompatibility to get users to alway upgrade to the latest versions of Office, and to always favor the Windows version of Office for decades now. It's been going on so long now, it's been institutionalized and they probably aren't even aware they are doing it.

    If they actually use the Mac version of Office for iPadOS, it will be a big victory for the Vision Pro, but as such, MS will be strategizing on whether they want to do that.
  • Reply 36 of 38

    alandail said:
    abriden said:
    For general work I just don't see the utility of Vision Pro over a physical keyboard and ergonomic workstation. For an immersive experience I commend Apple for what they appear to have achieved, but the fact remains that most of what we do does not require immersion. Vision Pro is not going to be a productivity platform at all, not in the way that iPad has become. I believe as advanced as it is, the novelty of the 'headset experience' is going to wear-off extremely quickly. The average user will either NEED or WANT to remove-and-replace the headset constantly throughout the day to interact with others, negotiate their environment and just gain relief from wearing it.
    Just like with the iPad, you can use a physical keyboard, trackpad, etc. Just like with AirPods Pro transparency mode, you can interact with others and negotiate the environment. It remains to be seen if needing relief from wearing it is better or worse than needing relief from looking down at an iPad or iPhone screen. because of transparency...

    Anyone who doesn't program shouldn't need to bring their Mac when they travel.


    Using an over-the-face device is fundamentally different from looking at an object unencumbered, whether it's an iPad or another device. So wearing it will feel different and interacting with people whilst using it WILL depend upon their perception of Vision Pro not the user. The moment one has to explain to a third-party the relative limitations of the device with respect to interaction, it's already creating difficulty where there was none. Then there is the re-visiting of privacy concerns with regard to recording with it.

    Suggesting that Vision Pro will do the job for everyone but coders when travelling ...that's absurd. And how do you share your screen momentarily with those around you?
  • Reply 37 of 38
    thttht Posts: 5,599member
    abriden said:

    alandail said:
    abriden said:
    For general work I just don't see the utility of Vision Pro over a physical keyboard and ergonomic workstation. For an immersive experience I commend Apple for what they appear to have achieved, but the fact remains that most of what we do does not require immersion. Vision Pro is not going to be a productivity platform at all, not in the way that iPad has become. I believe as advanced as it is, the novelty of the 'headset experience' is going to wear-off extremely quickly. The average user will either NEED or WANT to remove-and-replace the headset constantly throughout the day to interact with others, negotiate their environment and just gain relief from wearing it.
    Just like with the iPad, you can use a physical keyboard, trackpad, etc. Just like with AirPods Pro transparency mode, you can interact with others and negotiate the environment. It remains to be seen if needing relief from wearing it is better or worse than needing relief from looking down at an iPad or iPhone screen. because of transparency...

    Anyone who doesn't program shouldn't need to bring their Mac when they travel.


    Using an over-the-face device is fundamentally different from looking at an object unencumbered, whether it's an iPad or another device. So wearing it will feel different and interacting with people whilst using it WILL depend upon their perception of Vision Pro not the user. The moment one has to explain to a third-party the relative limitations of the device with respect to interaction, it's already creating difficulty where there was none. Then there is the re-visiting of privacy concerns with regard to recording with it.

    Suggesting that Vision Pro will do the job for everyone but coders when travelling ...that's absurd. And how do you share your screen momentarily with those around you?
    People will just adjust like they always do.

    First and foremost is that the productivity apps have to be there. Like I said before, the standard set of productivity apps is basically a feature competitive web browser, Microsoft Office (Office for Mac or better), the usual communications apps, and shell access. I assume file management will be like Finder or equivalent as it is an overlapping multi-windowing environment.

    The problem remains is that Apple is rather focused or opinionated. They remain intransigent on iPadOS, only dragging their feet on getting complicated apps onto the platform. Stage Manager remains limited. They finally release FCP and LP on iPadOS last year. Xcode? Not yet. Terminal.app is not to be seen. With visionOS, since they prefer developers use iPadOS apps as the starting point, it likely means some frustrating app experiences until they open everything up.

    Another complication is the App Store model. Expensive apps and services aren't going to be using it. So, it will be interesting to see if Apple will enable sideloading or have Gatekeeper on visionOS.

    As long as the PPD is good enough for small font sizes, like 8pt font, visionOS and the Vision Pro will be fine for programmers as long as the apps and system access are there. It would be great imo, and better for users on the go than a laptop.

    For sharing what a user sees inside the Vision Pro, Apple's answer is going to be screen sharing. That's how the Vision Pro demos have been run. An Apple person sees everything the Vision Pro user sees inside, and tells them how to proceed during the demo. That's just a screen sharing app. If a Vision Pro user wants to share what they are seeing with someone who doesn't have a Vision Pro, it's going to be screen sharing to an iPad or Mac or iPhone.

    For screen sharing to another user using a Vision Pro, that's basically telepresence where one user is seeing through the eyes of another user. That's the exciting solution. A more mundane solution is just sharing the other user's view on a 2D plane just like you would on an iPad or Mac.
  • Reply 38 of 38
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,254member
    tht said:
    entropys said:
    MS office performance will be the make or break app suite. Sad but true.
    For Enterprise and Education markets most definitely.

    Microsoft conveniently segments the Office suite so that the Windows version of Office is always best, thusly always protecting both their Windows and Office share. It's been going on for 30 years, and will continue on until, I don't know, PDF can be extended to natively support editing of spreadsheets, layout and word processor programs? Or Latex is extended to be interchangeably both a WYSIWYG app and a layout processing app? This doesn't include the app suite segmentation where Project, Visio, Access et al are not in the Windows versions.

    Unfortunately, MS will likely use the iPad version of Office instead of the macOS version of Office, which has less features than than Office for Mac, less than Office for Web, and obviously less features than Office for Windows. And then there is the rather frustrating file incompatibilities between platform versions, also a nice moat for Office for Windows.

    It's been nearly 40 years, and it should not be that case that an Powerpoint file opened in Powerpoint for Mac looks different than Powerpoint for Windows. It's not even an issue with different features being implemented. Just plain vanilla features of Powerpoint, or Word, or even Excel. MS has been playing the game of using file incompatibility to get users to alway upgrade to the latest versions of Office, and to always favor the Windows version of Office for decades now. It's been going on so long now, it's been institutionalized and they probably aren't even aware they are doing it.

    If they actually use the Mac version of Office for iPadOS, it will be a big victory for the Vision Pro, but as such, MS will be strategizing on whether they want to do that.
    Have to agree with all of that. It will be the iPad version no doubt..

    the other opportunity is if Apple substantially (and it would have to be substantial) bribed CAD software companies to support.  That would help Macs too.
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