Apple Car is delayed -- again

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 24

Apple has changed its strategy to develop an electric vehicle and aims for a more basic EV with limited features designed to compete with currently available Tesla models.

Apple Car won't make an appearance until 2028 -- or later
Apple Car won't make an appearance until 2028 -- or later



The company had previously planned a fully autonomous vehicle but has now opted for a less ambitious design. The new plan for the car involves a Level 2+ system that offers limited autonomous features, such as lane centering and adaptive cruise control.

This is a significant change from the previous plan, which included Level 4 automation, allowing the car to be driven autonomously under specific circumstances, such as a local driverless taxi.

Originally aimed for a 2026 release with advanced self-driving capabilities, Apple has now adjusted its approach to focus on more basic driver-assistance features.

According to Bloomberg the latest adjustments have impacted the release timeline, pushing it to 2028 at the earliest, approximately two years later than previously projected.

Apple's car project, codenamed Titan and T172, has been a tumultuous journey since 2014. The project has faced leadership changes, strategic shifts, hiring freezes, layoffs, and delays.

Internally, this shift is considered a pivotal moment, where Apple must either deliver the product with reduced expectations or reconsider the project's existence altogether. The company has engaged in discussions with potential European manufacturing partners to implement the new strategy, with plans to release an upgraded system supporting Level 4 autonomy post the initial launch.

After prolonged discussions involving Apple's board, project head Kevin Lynch, and CEO Tim Cook, it was decided to reduce the scale of the project. The car project has been a significant investment for Apple, with hundreds of millions of dollars spent annually on research and development, including powertrains, self-driving hardware and software, and vehicle components.

If the project is yet again delayed, this projection is in line with a recent prediction from Ming-Chi Kuo in late September. According to the analyst, he had "lost all visibility" on the project and had doubts "that the Apple Car could go into mass production within the next few years."

After Kuo's March prediction of a dissolved Apple Car team, Wedbush analyst Daniel Ives asserted that it was a matter of "when, not if" the product would arrive, and he expected it by 2026.

For a decade, the Apple Car project has always seemed three years away, yet inevitable at the same time, making it unclear whose predictions about the product are correct.

Rumor Score: Likely

Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    As a long time (since 1977) Apple enthusiast I just don't see Apple ever coming out with a "car".   Tesla has already done everything that Apple had initially envisioned and they are in the lead (IMHO) to eventually get to Level  3, 4 and 5 autonomous driving.  

    The best Apple can hope for is to partner (note Apple doesn't do this well) with existing transportation companies to embed CarPlay (or some iteration of that) in the hopes of expanding the Apple ecosystem.   This is even a stretch as this erodes the transportation company's marketing.  But folks don't want to learn new systems and would prefer to stay within an Apple (or Google or ???) standardized platform.   

    My Porsche software is a mess and I would pay to have an Apple Car platform  if it were available as an example.  

    I'm super excited about Apple's VisionPro as I see this as an exciting new platform which Apple can build out into many new markets and experiences.   But for companies the size of Apple, these opportunities to scale are few and far between.  
    gatorguybyronlAfarstarwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 32
    thttht Posts: 5,452member
    Still no answers on who is going to fab and assemble the car? Foxconn or bust?

    And the value chain for EVs are going to be charging infrastructure and service infrastructure. The car itself is somewhere in 3rd or 4th on the priority list. And automated driving would be 5th or 6th at best. They bought into the self driving bubble in the 2015 time frame and wasted a lot of resources.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 32
    mimsmims Posts: 24member
    Whew. I need to save up after buying the Vision Pro. 
    ForumPostwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 32
    Pleeeease offer a PHEV option! Even by 2028 charger anxiety will make road trips less fun. 90% of my driving is local so will burn gas less than 10% of the time overall. Someday, when a full charge takes 15 minutes we can say EV’s have truly replaced the convenience of ICEs. 
    Hillsish1beowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 32
    I think Apple has lost its focus.  They can't even build a modem, but sure, let's build a car!  Siri is a mess, the Swift compiler has a lot of problems, all sorts of software is buggy, they still can't figure out what to do with the iPad, and now there is the Vision Pro which has no clear reason to exist.  
    RoderikusM68000Dibiaseflashfan207
  • Reply 6 of 32
    mathpunk said:
    I think Apple has lost its focus.  They can't even build a modem, but sure, let's build a car!  Siri is a mess, the Swift compiler has a lot of problems, all sorts of software is buggy, they still can't figure out what to do with the iPad, and now there is the Vision Pro which has no clear reason to exist.  
    So much truth in this.
    Cook is a replicator, not a creator. Let alone a visionary. He’s good at driving prices up while milking Steve’s heritage, sadly…
    edited January 23 M68000Dibiase
  • Reply 7 of 32
    mathpunk said:
    I think Apple has lost its focus.  They can't even build a modem, but sure, let's build a car!  Siri is a mess, the Swift compiler has a lot of problems, all sorts of software is buggy, they still can't figure out what to do with the iPad, and now there is the Vision Pro which has no clear reason to exist.  
    Not even a pro-Apple guy but let's go.
    1. Apple can build a modem. But why should they? It would provide no benefit at all over cheaper products available from other companies. There is a list of products that Apple should make - general purpose monitor, smart TV, printer, home audio, home security - but generic stuff like networking and storage equipment aren't among them.
    2. Siri is a mess ... when compared to Amazon Alexa, Google Assistant and Samsung Bixby? The former two are losing BILLIONS for their owners and the latter is an embarrassment. 
    3. All right maybe this is legitimate.
    4. In isolation? Sure. In comparison with software provided by literally everybody else? Not a chance.
    5. They sold 46 million of them in 2023 which was a down year. Creative professionals love it and thanks to Apple Arcade it is actually getting traction with serious gaming. The only real threat to the iPad on the horizon is the possibility that Windows tablets are going to take off once Intel reaches 5nm this year: https://liliputing.com/onexplayer-x1-gaming-tablet-with-detachable-controllers-and-intel-meteor-lake-launches-in-china-global-launch-coming-soon. And if you are one of those people who keeps insisting that iPads should have beaten Windows laptops by now ... well let's just say that you aren't someone who actually uses Windows and leave it at that. That was never going to happen, especially considering that an iPad Pro actually costs as much as an entry level productivity or gaming Windows laptop and that is without the Magic keyboard and trackpad.
    6. My prediction is that 5 years from now the Vision Pro is going to be radically different from the dev kit that they are pushing now. If you were to listen to what Apple's management has been saying about AR and VR the past 3 years you would understand why I think this way. The final version of the Vision Pro is going to be a lot closer to Google Glass - except actually good this time - than the face huggers from Aliens.

    So you are 1 for 6. Aim for a better ratio next time. 
    thtlolliverStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 32
    tht said:
    Still no answers on who is going to fab and assemble the car? Foxconn or bust?

    And the value chain for EVs are going to be charging infrastructure and service infrastructure. The car itself is somewhere in 3rd or 4th on the priority list. And automated driving would be 5th or 6th at best. They bought into the self driving bubble in the 2015 time frame and wasted a lot of resources.
    Foxconn building the car is one thing. Foxconn building the car without an automobile manufacturer to provide a lot of what is necessary is another. The only way that this gets done is if Apple moves off the "terms that make us billions while losing you billions" that they normally impose on their "partners" and suppliers. Apple is able to do this in other industries because they have been able to find companies that are some combination of desperate, star-struck or naive. That's not going to happen in the automobile industry.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 32
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    Apple never said they were building a car. 
    chasmkiltedgreenradarthekatlolliveranomeStrangeDayswonkothesanewatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 32
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,010member
    Somewhere in-between, and including, 100% true to 100% false

    Go nosh on it....

    termsofuseStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 32
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,703member
    It's true that the rumours are all over the place but I'd be quite surprised if this summary of the latest rumours proves to be correct.

    It sounds like they're lowering the bar across the board on what a smart car in 2028 should be and that makes it hard to believe. 

    Anything is possible and the 5G modem fiasco (strategically and technically) is proof of that but this idea was hatched at Apple years ago now. It wasn't lumped on them in a 'Yikes!' moment like the 5G modem was. 

    It is true that they've never confirmed an Apple car plan exists but there is enough evidence out there to say a major car effort is underway. The only question is what type of effort.

    At the moment I think things aren't as bad as they read. 
    13485
  • Reply 12 of 32
    thttht Posts: 5,452member
    thadec said:
    tht said:
    Still no answers on who is going to fab and assemble the car? Foxconn or bust?

    And the value chain for EVs are going to be charging infrastructure and service infrastructure. The car itself is somewhere in 3rd or 4th on the priority list. And automated driving would be 5th or 6th at best. They bought into the self driving bubble in the 2015 time frame and wasted a lot of resources.
    Foxconn building the car is one thing. Foxconn building the car without an automobile manufacturer to provide a lot of what is necessary is another. The only way that this gets done is if Apple moves off the "terms that make us billions while losing you billions" that they normally impose on their "partners" and suppliers. Apple is able to do this in other industries because they have been able to find companies that are some combination of desperate, star-struck or naive. That's not going to happen in the automobile industry.
    Yeah, that's why I was thinking Foxconn or bust. No existing auto manufacturers will be willing to work with them. Like with everyone else in any industry that Apple may want to enter, the incumbents are naturally inclined to not partner with Apple anymore. The risks are too high after iTunes and iPhone provided multiple case studies on how well Apple can perform.

    Foxconn however, appears to have no desire to build their own branded cars, prefers to be a merchant manufacturer and is just beginning to build their infrastructure. That's actually a very interesting tact to go with. With EVs, it frees vehicles and vehicle designs to break out of current industry norms, and in such a new world, more flexible manufacturing plants are needed. A merchant manufacturer would have plants that are more agile.

    Like with computer chip manufacturers in the past, where many of them owned their own foundries only to abandon them and go fabless, being a merchant vehicle manufacturer in an EV world is going to be interesting. Will be interesting if more and more car brands go fabless and hire merchant manufacturers.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 32
    larryjw said:
    Apple never said they were building a car. 
    This!!!

    It’s a sign of the demented world in which we live that Apple is in effect reprimanded, yet again, for delaying a product whose existence they have never acknowledged and whose release date therefore is non-existent.
    termsofuseAfarstarlolliveranomeStrangeDaysmattinozwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 32
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,843moderator
    larryjw said:
    Apple never said they were building a car. 
    This!!!

    It’s a sign of the demented world in which we live that Apple is in effect reprimanded, yet again, for delaying a product whose existence they have never acknowledged and whose release date therefore is non-existent.
    Exactly.  The great thing about Apple is that they don't owe us a car.  Here they are launching a telepresence headset that aligns with Apple's mission to reduce our carbon footprint.  Maybe that's better for the world than even an ICE-replacing EV.  
    lolliveranomewatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 32
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,069member
    I have always considered the rumors of Apple Inc. making a full production bumper to bumper automobile specious. What I do think this codenamed project might really be about is what Emoter (above) alludes to: an integrated car electronics system that automobile manufacturers can purchase for inclusion in their production vehicles. 

    Recall that GM famously claimed they would stop making their cars CarPlay compatible, and the derision that greeted that announcement. People *want* to bring their phones to the car; and they *want* quality that a longtime tech manufacturer can bring in their cars. The idea that GM (or other car company) can do better is absurd. I've seen the Tesla version of this, and it is mediocre at best. Is CarPlay perfect? No. But it is what I asked for when I shopped cars. And when I rent them.

    A company like Apple brings much to the table. Car companies can get out of the infotainment system and the necessary tech support that can be required for decades. 

    Done correctly, imagine an Apple Car on board electronic system being available in a rental car fleet. Nothing is more annoying than arriving at a destination airport and having to stand in a line to pick up a rental car. Sure, there are alternatives, and none of them insanely great. Imagine an Apple Car "rental services" division.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 32
    This news means the timetable for the iFlying Saucer is being pushed back five years. 
    Grizzmickwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 32
    M68000M68000 Posts: 728member
    Maybe we’ll be watching Hydrogen vehicles really get some market share by then.  A really amazing time in the transportation industry with several competing options.  Porsche is supposed to have been working on E-fuel now for 5 years,  if that works and happens that could be huge.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 32
    larryjw said:
    Apple never said they were building a car. 
    Is this before or after the touchscreen 4K TV everyone said Apple was making? Maybe the car will come equipped with that tv. 
    StrangeDaysMplsPwatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 32
    Why can’t Apple be more like Tesla and deliver products on time? </s>
    watto_cobra
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