The main issue I see is the isolation, from watching a movie alone to the inability to work on a joint project. I have to believe the 'loneliness' aspect will be addressed. I assume Apple plans to include a collaborative environment in future updates.
Maybe you should not assume it’s not shipping with it.
from the Verge review
Sadly, visionOS doesn’t have any ability to share these windows or experiences with anyone else: two people in Vision Pro headsets sitting in the same room can’t see the same things floating in space at the same time. Apple tells me some enterprise developers are working on experiences with shared views, and you can mirror the view from one Vision Pro to another over FaceTime, but in the end, my big Safari art gallery only ever had one patron: me. It’s amazing you can do all of this, but it is also quite lonely to put things all over a space knowing no one else will ever really experience it.
?????? Share info online like any other computer, share with one guest user with you..... I'm afraid it's not the Holodeck.
Sadly, visionOS doesn’t have any ability to share these windows or experiences with anyone else
While there's a mechanism for streaming the VP to an Apple TV, I'd guess the worst feeling by far will be felt by people who can't experience it. But time will tell!
The main issue I see is the isolation, from watching a movie alone to the inability to work on a joint project. I have to believe the 'loneliness' aspect will be addressed. I assume Apple plans to include a collaborative environment in future updates.
The less I have to interact with people the better! Lol You really think people feel isolated because they no longer have to go into the office everyday?
C'mon Tim. Wouldn't you buy these if they had googly eyes on the external display?
It will be interesting to see if Tim and the other execs who do the product and keynote videos and live events are seen standing around wearing the vision pro. Look at how everyone one of them has an Apple watch on during presentations. Is it a requirement? Must everyone seen wear an Apple watch? What would happen if they want to wear a different brand watch or even no watch? That would be forbidden? I’m an Apple user and fan for many years but have to notice this constant marketing at every turn they get.
The main issue I see is the isolation, from watching a movie alone to the inability to work on a joint project. I have to believe the 'loneliness' aspect will be addressed. I assume Apple plans to include a collaborative environment in future updates.
Maybe you should not assume it’s not shipping with it.
from the Verge review
Sadly, visionOS doesn’t have any ability to share these windows or experiences with anyone else: two people in Vision Pro headsets sitting in the same room can’t see the same things floating in space at the same time. Apple tells me some enterprise developers are working on experiences with shared views, and you can mirror the view from one Vision Pro to another over FaceTime, but in the end, my big Safari art gallery only ever had one patron: me. It’s amazing you can do all of this, but it is also quite lonely to put things all over a space knowing no one else will ever really experience it.
I bet both telepresence and shared views are coming. Probably not in visionOS 2, but maybe 3 or 4, and perhaps require WiFi 7 and an M3. You will need a fat wireless pipe and stronger GPU performance.
Telepresence will be easier as that is just SharePlay at proper bitrates. This is where you are seeing what the other person is seeing through their eyes. Not sure if the view can be offset by where the other VP is, but it's basically telepresence with rendering information set at a different location from the source VP.
For shared spaces, that is one of the developer frameworks, where multiple VP users are seeing the same virtual object. Like, that JigSpace app can eventually have multiple VP wearers look at the virtual object.
The multi-persona immersive space is coming. FaceTime with personas is semi-3D. I think eventually multiple personas, from all over the world, will be able to be together and see a movie. Like, one persona will be able look at the side of another persona, and see whether they are smiling, happy, side, etc.
I’m sure it’s an impressive experience, but I can’t see myself buying one for quite a while.
From gruber’s review, it sounds like a heavy, fussy device that *currently* is best suited to watching movies alone on a couch.
I must have read a different Gruber review. He said they nailed it, and all other products in this category will copy their UX.
Yep he said he ran into some minor bugs but that didn’t damper his enthusiasm whatsoever:
This is not confusing or complex, but it feels profound. […]
But the conceptual design of VisionOS lays the foundation for an entirely new direction of interaction design. Just like how the basic concepts of the original Mac interface were exactly right, and remain true to this day. Just like how the original iPhone defined the way every phone in the world now works. […]
The fundamental interaction model in VisionOS feels like it will be copied by all future VR/AR headsets, in the same way that all desktop computers work like the Mac, and all phones and tablets now work like the iPhone. And when that happens, some will argue that of course they all work that way, because how else could they work? But personal computers didn’t have point-and-click GUIs before the Mac, and phones didn’t have “it’s all just a big touchscreen” interfaces before the iPhone. No other headset today has a “just look at a target, and tap your finger and thumb” interface today. I suspect in a few years they all will. […]
Spatial computing in VisionOS is the real deal. It’s a legit productivity computing platform right now, and it’s only going to get better. It sounds like hype, but I truly believe this is a landmark breakthrough like the 1984 Macintosh and the 2007 iPhone.
Yeah, like I said -- I'm sure it's an impressive experience. That's consistent with what you quoted from his review.
Also, you apparently are skipping over parts of the review. He said:
Second is the fact that Vision Pro is heavy. I’ve used it for hours at a time without any discomfort, but fatigue does set in, from the weight alone. You never forget that you’re wearing it. Related to Vision Pro’s weight is the fact that it’s quite large. It’s a big-ass pair of heavy goggles on your face. There’s nothing subtle about it — either from your first-person perspective wearing it, or from the third-person perspective of someone else looking at you while you wear it.
And:
If it all sounds a little fussy, that’s because it is. But there’s no way around it: it requires a precise fit both for comfort and optical alignment.
Also:
I’ve saved the best for last. Vision Pro is simply a phenomenal way to watch movies, and 3D immersive experiences are astonishing. There are 3D immersive experiences in Vision Pro that are more compelling than Disney World attractions that people wait in line for hours to see.
So, like I said, it's an impressive experience. But it's a heavy, fussy device that *currently* is best suited to watching movies alone on a couch.
Nah I didn’t skip a thing. Gruber’s comment about fussy was the light seal until he got it right, but not that the entire device or experience is fussy. He believes it’s a fundamentally successful and impactful user experience, on par with the Macintosh and iPhone.
The main issue I see is the isolation, from watching a movie alone to the inability to work on a joint project. I have to believe the 'loneliness' aspect will be addressed. I assume Apple plans to include a collaborative environment in future updates.
Maybe you should not assume it’s not shipping with it.
from the Verge review
Sadly, visionOS doesn’t have any ability to share these windows or experiences with anyone else: two people in Vision Pro headsets sitting in the same room can’t see the same things floating in space at the same time. Apple tells me some enterprise developers are working on experiences with shared views, and you can mirror the view from one Vision Pro to another over FaceTime, but in the end, my big Safari art gallery only ever had one patron: me. It’s amazing you can do all of this, but it is also quite lonely to put things all over a space knowing no one else will ever really experience it.
Original iPhone didn’t ship with copy & paste. Or a video camera.
Seriously folks. Products don’t hop out of clam shells fully formed like Aphrodite. They get refined over time…this is v1 lol
It amazes me the lengths these guys will go to build a fantasy around something in hopes that people believe they are committed to it. In truth Apple will drop Vision Pro entirely if it doesn't sell well enough. Presale data isn't good, and Tim's continued experiment to see how much he can convince people to pay for something is starting to unravel. Apple simply does not do low volume products. They either cancel them entirely, or they let them die on the vine for ages while the 8 customers who bought into the idea are left hanging in the wind. Given the general feeling toward VR headsets on the market, the presale numbers most likely reflect a huge chunk of the people even interested in buying a Vision Pro, leaving day to day sales from here out to be scarce. If Apple can't even sell half a million units in the first year, their interest in the category will quickly diminish. Everyone assumes that version 2 is a given, but that's a bad assumption. Apple does not throw good money after bad, and they've already spent exorbitant amounts of money on the development of something that has amounted to an iPad for your face that costs $3,500, and requires wearing an objectionable piece hardware that is heavy, uncomfortable for any length time, nausea-inducing for most people, tethered to the wall, and completely world-isolating. What other Apple product even comes close to having that many negative tradeoffs? There is almost nothing good that you can say about this product that isn't outweighed but its downsides.
Apple has said that AR is the future, and I agree. So they go and build a VR headset, something no one anywhere thinks is the future, and try to do AR with it.
AR is all about the view finder. We already have the ability in software to do amazing things with AR, but they're nothing more than a tech demo until we get the view finder right. And a VR headset is not it. No more closer than holding an iPhone up to your face and looking through the lens of the camera. Apple knows this, and knows that glasses are the wearable of the future, and that everyday glasses that can be powered by iPhone to project AR into your world are a game changer. They also know that the technology to do this well is still several years away, and Tim Cook knows he won't be CEO by the time that comes around. He wanted spatial computing to be part of his legacy so badly that he pushed a product onto market years before it was ready, bolstered by his successes with overcharging customers in the last several years. Things like raising the price of products every time a new feature is added is a Tim Cook invention that customers have rewarded him for, and it has led to some poor decisions...Vision Pro's release being the pinnacle.
I’m afraid your post won’t age well! This is a first gen. product. You know… like Mac (Macintosh), iPhone or Apple Watch. They evolved over time and became huge successes. They sure didn’t start that way. The same will be true for the Apple Vision Pro. As this product gets smaller and smaller and features and Apps develop over time you’ll see people flock to the platform! It’s really well thought out. Spatial computing that is. Down the line you won’t need ANY of the accompanying Apple devices (Mac, iPad, iPhone, Apple Watch) in your travel bag. Just a couple of “sunglasses” (The downsized Apple Vision Pro / Apple Vision Light). Of course there’ll be a big “Work/Home” version and a smaller “Street vise” version. They started with the bigger guy! This first version we see today is about laying the foundation. It might be clunky and a little buggy… BUT the course sure is set. The input method alone is what truly sets this product/platform apart from the competition and ANY other product. The most natural way of interaction you can think of… hands, eyes and voice… and you’re a “productivity god”. Especially with the Apps and hardware that this platform is begging for down the line. I really don’t think you realize Apple’s vision here! No pun intended.
"I’m afraid your post won’t age well! This is a first gen. product. You know… like Mac (Macintosh), iPhone or Apple Watch. They evolved over time and became huge successes. They sure didn’t start that way. The same will be true for the Apple Vision Pro"
That's an assumption that the Vision Pro will evolve over time and become a huge success. it might end up like MS' HoloLens and become a masterful flop.
It amazes me the lengths these guys will go to build a fantasy around something in hopes that people believe they are committed to it. In truth Apple will drop Vision Pro entirely if it doesn't sell well enough. Presale data isn't good, and Tim's continued experiment to see how much he can convince people to pay for something is starting to unravel. Apple simply does not do low volume products. They either cancel them entirely, or they let them die on the vine for ages while the 8 customers who bought into the idea are left hanging in the wind. Given the general feeling toward VR headsets on the market, the presale numbers most likely reflect a huge chunk of the people even interested in buying a Vision Pro, leaving day to day sales from here out to be scarce. If Apple can't even sell half a million units in the first year, their interest in the category will quickly diminish. Everyone assumes that version 2 is a given, but that's a bad assumption. Apple does not throw good money after bad, and they've already spent exorbitant amounts of money on the development of something that has amounted to an iPad for your face that costs $3,500, and requires wearing an objectionable piece hardware that is heavy, uncomfortable for any length time, nausea-inducing for most people, tethered to the wall, and completely world-isolating. What other Apple product even comes close to having that many negative tradeoffs? There is almost nothing good that you can say about this product that isn't outweighed but its downsides.
Apple has said that AR is the future, and I agree. So they go and build a VR headset, something no one anywhere thinks is the future, and try to do AR with it.
AR is all about the view finder. We already have the ability in software to do amazing things with AR, but they're nothing more than a tech demo until we get the view finder right. And a VR headset is not it. No more closer than holding an iPhone up to your face and looking through the lens of the camera. Apple knows this, and knows that glasses are the wearable of the future, and that everyday glasses that can be powered by iPhone to project AR into your world are a game changer. They also know that the technology to do this well is still several years away, and Tim Cook knows he won't be CEO by the time that comes around. He wanted spatial computing to be part of his legacy so badly that he pushed a product onto market years before it was ready, bolstered by his successes with overcharging customers in the last several years. Things like raising the price of products every time a new feature is added is a Tim Cook invention that customers have rewarded him for, and it has led to some poor decisions...Vision Pro's release being the pinnacle.
It amazes me the lengths these guys will go to build a fantasy around something in hopes that people believe they are committed to it. In truth Apple will drop Vision Pro entirely if it doesn't sell well enough. Presale data isn't good, and Tim's continued experiment to see how much he can convince people to pay for something is starting to unravel. Apple simply does not do low volume products. They either cancel them entirely, or they let them die on the vine for ages while the 8 customers who bought into the idea are left hanging in the wind. Given the general feeling toward VR headsets on the market, the presale numbers most likely reflect a huge chunk of the people even interested in buying a Vision Pro, leaving day to day sales from here out to be scarce. If Apple can't even sell half a million units in the first year, their interest in the category will quickly diminish. Everyone assumes that version 2 is a given, but that's a bad assumption. Apple does not throw good money after bad, and they've already spent exorbitant amounts of money on the development of something that has amounted to an iPad for your face that costs $3,500, and requires wearing an objectionable piece hardware that is heavy, uncomfortable for any length time, nausea-inducing for most people, tethered to the wall, and completely world-isolating. What other Apple product even comes close to having that many negative tradeoffs? There is almost nothing good that you can say about this product that isn't outweighed but its downsides.
Apple has said that AR is the future, and I agree. So they go and build a VR headset, something no one anywhere thinks is the future, and try to do AR with it.
AR is all about the view finder. We already have the ability in software to do amazing things with AR, but they're nothing more than a tech demo until we get the view finder right. And a VR headset is not it. No more closer than holding an iPhone up to your face and looking through the lens of the camera. Apple knows this, and knows that glasses are the wearable of the future, and that everyday glasses that can be powered by iPhone to project AR into your world are a game changer. They also know that the technology to do this well is still several years away, and Tim Cook knows he won't be CEO by the time that comes around. He wanted spatial computing to be part of his legacy so badly that he pushed a product onto market years before it was ready, bolstered by his successes with overcharging customers in the last several years. Things like raising the price of products every time a new feature is added is a Tim Cook invention that customers have rewarded him for, and it has led to some poor decisions...Vision Pro's release being the pinnacle.
I’m afraid your post won’t age well! This is a first gen. product. You know… like Mac (Macintosh), iPhone or Apple Watch. They evolved over time and became huge successes. They sure didn’t start that way. The same will be true for the Apple Vision Pro. As this product gets smaller and smaller and features and Apps develop over time you’ll see people flock to the platform! It’s really well thought out. Spatial computing that is. Down the line you won’t need ANY of the accompanying Apple devices (Mac, iPad, iPhone, Apple Watch) in your travel bag. Just a couple of “sunglasses” (The downsized Apple Vision Pro / Apple Vision Light). Of course there’ll be a big “Work/Home” version and a smaller “Street vise” version. They started with the bigger guy! This first version we see today is about laying the foundation. It might be clunky and a little buggy… BUT the course sure is set. The input method alone is what truly sets this product/platform apart from the competition and ANY other product. The most natural way of interaction you can think of… hands, eyes and voice… and you’re a “productivity god”. Especially with the Apps and hardware that this platform is begging for down the line. I really don’t think you realize Apple’s vision here! No pun intended.
So, like you, Apple wants to have the vision pro and future versions wipe out their Mac, ipad, iphone and watch? That could really decrease revenue having 1 product instead of 4. Okay, got it.
Yeah, in your future world nearly everybody will wear goggles or special sunglasses everywhere LOL.
The Mac, ipad, iphone and watch are very different for one reason, they are not anti social. However, covering a lot of your face with goggles does make the wearer look out of touch with others.
To me, it’s a niche product for training sessions and probably games. There is a chance that this product was given a green light at Apple because they may be working on a secret use for it.
You assume the general public wants to have this kind of thing on their head. i don’t share your views.
It surprises me that since the battery was put into a separate unit more of the electronics involved hasn’t been incorporated into the external supplemental unit. Doing so would, I would imagine, result in a lighter headset and that would improve the comfort in long-term use.
Of course, I’m no engineer, so maybe I’m way off base here, but it sure seems to me that the less electronics a user is expected to put on one’s head, the better the experience all around.
Yep, the weight is not in the M2 chip or the R1 chip. The weight is in the case/lenses/cameras. We might see some of the camera tech being paired back for example as the optimal and most important use-case scenarios emerge.
When using the AVP such as being sat at a desk using a MBP and with AVP screens to supplement is realistically no different to someone sat at a desk with 3 or 4 physical monitors - for the AVP wearer.
For other people in the room the eyesight feature will be essential to overcome the perceived social isolation. So I think this is a very important feature that will need to improve over time. Gradually making more parts of AVP transparent, or making the AVP device smaller, will help with this issue too.
Funnily enough, when in film school in the 90s I made a short film called “The Drug of the Future” - which was about the potential negatives of VR, so this tech has been a long time coming for me and I’ve long foreseen and looked forward to the pros and cons.
That said, many thought that people would look stupid with Airpods in their ears - if the use case for AVP gets established then it will quickly become normal to see people wearing them imho. I say this as someone who still gets laughed at when I’m playing a game in a PSVR2 and that would still be the same for someone playing a game on AVP - but someone watching movies or working with one of these on I think will become normal quite quickly.
That leads me to say that the AVP is priced around the price of 2x Apple Studio Displays so the price of entry isn’t too bad - if it is a device you will use - which is pretty much true for all tech? It’s only over-priced to you if it provides you personally with no value. My Macs and Apple monitors are tools that I use to make money, same could be true for AVP, eventually. I see a future where 3D sculpting in ZBrush with Mac/AVP would be amazing; but we are at version 1, there’s a road ahead to travel.
Comments
?????? Share info online like any other computer, share with one guest user with you..... I'm afraid it's not the Holodeck.
Telepresence will be easier as that is just SharePlay at proper bitrates. This is where you are seeing what the other person is seeing through their eyes. Not sure if the view can be offset by where the other VP is, but it's basically telepresence with rendering information set at a different location from the source VP.
For shared spaces, that is one of the developer frameworks, where multiple VP users are seeing the same virtual object. Like, that JigSpace app can eventually have multiple VP wearers look at the virtual object.
The multi-persona immersive space is coming. FaceTime with personas is semi-3D. I think eventually multiple personas, from all over the world, will be able to be together and see a movie. Like, one persona will be able look at the side of another persona, and see whether they are smiling, happy, side, etc.
Original iPhone didn’t ship with copy & paste. Or a video camera.
Seriously folks. Products don’t hop out of clam shells fully formed like Aphrodite. They get refined over time…this is v1 lol
That's an assumption that the Vision Pro will evolve over time and become a huge success. it might end up like MS' HoloLens and become a masterful flop.
Yeah, in your future world nearly everybody will wear goggles or special sunglasses everywhere LOL.
The Mac, ipad, iphone and watch are very different for one reason, they are not anti social. However, covering a lot of your face with goggles does make the wearer look out of touch with others.
You assume the general public wants to have this kind of thing on their head. i don’t share your views.
When using the AVP such as being sat at a desk using a MBP and with AVP screens to supplement is realistically no different to someone sat at a desk with 3 or 4 physical monitors - for the AVP wearer.
For other people in the room the eyesight feature will be essential to overcome the perceived social isolation. So I think this is a very important feature that will need to improve over time. Gradually making more parts of AVP transparent, or making the AVP device smaller, will help with this issue too.
Funnily enough, when in film school in the 90s I made a short film called “The Drug of the Future” - which was about the potential negatives of VR, so this tech has been a long time coming for me and I’ve long foreseen and looked forward to the pros and cons.
That said, many thought that people would look stupid with Airpods in their ears - if the use case for AVP gets established then it will quickly become normal to see people wearing them imho. I say this as someone who still gets laughed at when I’m playing a game in a PSVR2 and that would still be the same for someone playing a game on AVP - but someone watching movies or working with one of these on I think will become normal quite quickly.
That leads me to say that the AVP is priced around the price of 2x Apple Studio Displays so the price of entry isn’t too bad - if it is a device you will use - which is pretty much true for all tech? It’s only over-priced to you if it provides you personally with no value. My Macs and Apple monitors are tools that I use to make money, same could be true for AVP, eventually. I see a future where 3D sculpting in ZBrush with Mac/AVP would be amazing; but we are at version 1, there’s a road ahead to travel.