Apple faces 500M euro fine following EU music probe

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Apple may be the target of a 500 million euro ($538 million) fine from the European Commission, with the regulator expected to impose the charge following its competition probe into how it treats Apple Music's competitors.

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The European Commission has been investigating whether Apple broke antitrust laws following a 2019 complaint from Spotify, which resulted in a 2020 probe launch. Almost four years later, the European Commission is allegedly preparing to hand out punishments.

According to five people with knowledge of the investigation, the Financial Times reports that the Commission is expected to announce a fine against Apple early in March. The fine, thought to be in the ballpark of 500 million euro, will supposedly be accompanied by a ruling that Apple broke EU laws with its App Store anti-steering rules.

As part of the ruling and fine, Apple also faces being banned from preventing music streaming services from advising customers that they could get a better deal elsewhere than the App Store and the In-App Purchases system. These will apparently be referred to by the EU as "unfair trading conditions."

The wording of the report seemingly indicates the ban will be limited only to streaming services, with Apple potentially still able to apply them against other types of apps.

The timing of the ruling coincides with Apple's efforts to abide by the EU Digital Markets Act, which enables sideloading of third-party app stores and other rule changes affecting only EU citizens, including allowing alternative payment services to be used. Long-time courtroom rival Epic Games already plans to take advantage of the changes, with a return of "Fortnite" to the App Store in EU member states.

In the United States, the anti-steering rules are being changed following the Epic-Apple legal fight, but with significant limitations that make it difficult for developers to actually use.



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 64
    foregoneconclusionforegoneconclusion Posts: 2,981member
    The EU is desperate to collect a penalty fee. In the U.S. legal system, Spotify wouldn't have had the standing to complain since they had already moved 99% of their iOS subscribers to web payments WITHOUT needing any kind of in-app communication. Nothing about their financial reality supported the complaint. Not the revenue part of it or the communication part of it. 
    rhbellmorrob53teejay2012williamlondonbaconstangwatto_cobrapulseimagesjbdragonfreeassociate2
     8Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 2 of 64
    rhbellmorrhbellmor Posts: 31member
    As an Apple shareholder I hope Apple has factored this cost of doing business in Europe into their pricing in Europe.  Seems to me Europe looks at large U.S. tech companies like Apple to pay for their bloated national budgets.
    rob53Dracoteejay2012williamlondondanoxwatto_cobrapulseimagesjbdragon
     7Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 3 of 64
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,352member
    rhbellmor said:
    As an Apple shareholder I hope Apple has factored this cost of doing business in Europe into their pricing in Europe.  Seems to me Europe looks at large U.S. tech companies like Apple to pay for their bloated national budgets.
    The US already supports a lot of the EU making these stupid lawsuits revolting. The EU doesn’t make many products used worldwide, especially compared to the USA. I hope Apple starts charging a high tax on everything going to the EU. The USA will continue to support a dying continent and the EU needs to remember that. 
    rhbellmorwilliamlondondanoxwatto_cobrapulseimagesjbdragon
     5Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 4 of 64
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,992member
    Fining Apple is quick becoming a significant revenue source for the EU economy.

    How are all of these impositions and impediments on Apple (and other US technology companies) doing business in the EU improving the competitive situation for EU based smartphone, tablet, computer, headphone, VR/spatial headset, and music/video streaming service producers? Are EU consumers taking advantage of the bludgeoning of the "evil gatekeepers" and suddenly basking in the glory of being able to purchase EU made products and services at more affordable prices? That is the goal, improving choice and driving lower prices, isn't it? 
    danoxwatto_cobrapulseimagesjbdragon
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 64
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,689member
    Regional Apple devices are coming......
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 64
    nubusnubus Posts: 791member
    dewme said:
    Are EU consumers taking advantage of the bludgeoning of the "evil gatekeepers" and suddenly basking in the glory of being able to purchase EU made products and services at more affordable prices? That is the goal, improving choice and driving lower prices, isn't it? 
    Mac-users as a group have gained most from regulation (though from US). At one point 95% of all users were on the Microsoft IE browser with sites demanding ActiveX that only worked on Windows. It forced consumers to Windows as Mac browsers including IE for Mac didn't work with their banks or other basic systems. I had to switch bank to stay on Mac, but most didn't. 

    US regulation forced the unbundling of IE from Windows and it opened the web + made Mac a platform that could be used on the level as Windows for most people. And the fear of regulation forced Microsoft to make a deal with Apple to producing MS Office for "at least 5 years" + made a huge investment (+3% of Apple). At that time Apple was 90 days from going bankrupt. Microsoft needed Apple to stay alive to keep US authorities at bay. Thanks to US regulation we still have Apple and competition.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobramichelb76
     3Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 7 of 64
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,749member
    rob53 said:
    rhbellmor said:
    As an Apple shareholder I hope Apple has factored this cost of doing business in Europe into their pricing in Europe.  Seems to me Europe looks at large U.S. tech companies like Apple to pay for their bloated national budgets.
    The US already supports a lot of the EU making these stupid lawsuits revolting. The EU doesn’t make many products used worldwide, especially compared to the USA. 
    This is literally about Spotify, which is the worldwide market leader, trouncing Apple Music with over 30% market share vs. just under 14%. 
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 64
    Xedxed Posts: 3,115member
    nubus said:
    dewme said:
    Are EU consumers taking advantage of the bludgeoning of the "evil gatekeepers" and suddenly basking in the glory of being able to purchase EU made products and services at more affordable prices? That is the goal, improving choice and driving lower prices, isn't it? 
    Mac-users as a group have gained most from regulation (though from US). At one point 95% of all users were on the Microsoft IE browser with sites demanding ActiveX that only worked on Windows. It forced consumers to Windows as Mac browsers including IE for Mac didn't work with their banks or other basic systems. I had to switch bank to stay on Mac, but most didn't. 

    US regulation forced the unbundling of IE from Windows and it opened the web + made Mac a platform that could be used on the level as Windows for most people. And the fear of regulation forced Microsoft to make a deal with Apple to producing MS Office for "at least 5 years" + made a huge investment (+3% of Apple). At that time Apple was 90 days from going bankrupt. Microsoft needed Apple to stay alive to keep US authorities at bay. Thanks to US regulation we still have Apple and competition.
    This is the first I've heard that most Mac users were forced to switch to WinPCs to use financial websites. I certainly never had this problem. Would you please post some links showing how widespread this was as I am unable to find any sources myself?
    williamlondonSolibaconstangwatto_cobradanoxjbdragon
     6Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 64
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,749member

    rhbellmor said:
    As an Apple shareholder I hope Apple has factored this cost of doing business in Europe into their pricing in Europe.  Seems to me Europe looks at large U.S. tech companies like Apple to pay for their bloated national budgets.
    Apple has been factoring in the higher cost of doing business here for over forty years, rest assured. 

    Social security, mandatory health insurance payments, employment regulations (legal paid vacation, mandatory deadlines for firing people, etc.), mandatory warranty on all products — all those things and a thousand more have always been factored into their pricing schemes. 
    williamlondonbaconstangwatto_cobramichelb76jbdragon
     3Likes 0Dislikes 2Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 64
    nubusnubus Posts: 791member
    danox said:
    Regional Apple devices are coming......
    They already exist. iPhone with 5G mmWave isn't sold outside North America. Wifi and 5G bands differ a lot between countries and regions. eSim-only is limited to North America. Facetime isn't available on devices sold in some countries (UAE) and those living in UK get 5-6 years warranty with their iPhone (https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/).  You're just lucky that all iPhone 15 variants got USB C connectors.
    sphericwilliamlondongatorguywatto_cobrajbdragon
     2Likes 0Dislikes 3Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 64
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,749member

    foregoneconclusion said:
    The EU is desperate to collect a penalty fee. In the U.S. legal system, Spotify wouldn't have had the standing to complain since they had already moved 99% of their iOS subscribers to web payments WITHOUT needing any kind of in-app communication. Nothing about their financial reality supported the complaint. Not the revenue part of it or the communication part of it. 
    Yes, with a nominal GDP of almost US$20 trillion projected for 2024, I'm sure they're desperate to collect 500 million Euro from a company violating existing antitrust laws. 
    baconstangmuthuk_vanalingamblastdoornubusgrandact73michelb76
     6Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 64
    Xedxed Posts: 3,115member
    nubus said:
    danox said:
    Regional Apple devices are coming......
    They already exist. iPhone with 5G mmWave isn't sold outside North America. Wifi and 5G bands differ a lot between countries and regions. eSim-only is limited to North America. Facetime isn't available on devices sold in some countries (UAE) and those living in UK get 5-6 years warranty with their iPhone (https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/).  You're just lucky that all iPhone 15 variants got USB C connectors.
    Dual physical SIMs in China, IIRC.
    Soliwatto_cobranubus
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 64
    Xedxed Posts: 3,115member
    spheric said:

    foregoneconclusion said:
    The EU is desperate to collect a penalty fee. In the U.S. legal system, Spotify wouldn't have had the standing to complain since they had already moved 99% of their iOS subscribers to web payments WITHOUT needing any kind of in-app communication. Nothing about their financial reality supported the complaint. Not the revenue part of it or the communication part of it. 
    Yes, with a nominal GDP of almost US$20 trillion projected for 2024, I'm sure they're desperate to collect 500 million Euro from a company violating existing antitrust laws. 
    GDP isn't the same profit, so 500,000,000 € with very little comparative legal and administrative overhead does sound like a huge boon to me.
    Soliwatto_cobrajbdragon
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 64
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,749member
    Xed said:
    spheric said:

    foregoneconclusion said:
    The EU is desperate to collect a penalty fee. In the U.S. legal system, Spotify wouldn't have had the standing to complain since they had already moved 99% of their iOS subscribers to web payments WITHOUT needing any kind of in-app communication. Nothing about their financial reality supported the complaint. Not the revenue part of it or the communication part of it. 
    Yes, with a nominal GDP of almost US$20 trillion projected for 2024, I'm sure they're desperate to collect 500 million Euro from a company violating existing antitrust laws. 
    GDP isn't the same profit, so 500,000,000 € with very little comparative legal and administrative overhead does sound like a huge boon to me.
    What does that even mean? 

    Since when are governments for-profit organisations?
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamblastdoornubusgrandact73michelb76
     5Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 15 of 64
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,749member
    Xed said:
    nubus said:
    dewme said:
    Are EU consumers taking advantage of the bludgeoning of the "evil gatekeepers" and suddenly basking in the glory of being able to purchase EU made products and services at more affordable prices? That is the goal, improving choice and driving lower prices, isn't it? 
    Mac-users as a group have gained most from regulation (though from US). At one point 95% of all users were on the Microsoft IE browser with sites demanding ActiveX that only worked on Windows. It forced consumers to Windows as Mac browsers including IE for Mac didn't work with their banks or other basic systems. I had to switch bank to stay on Mac, but most didn't. 

    US regulation forced the unbundling of IE from Windows and it opened the web + made Mac a platform that could be used on the level as Windows for most people. And the fear of regulation forced Microsoft to make a deal with Apple to producing MS Office for "at least 5 years" + made a huge investment (+3% of Apple). At that time Apple was 90 days from going bankrupt. Microsoft needed Apple to stay alive to keep US authorities at bay. Thanks to US regulation we still have Apple and competition.
    This is the first I've heard that most Mac users were forced to switch to WinPCs to use financial websites. I certainly never had this problem. Would you please post some links showing how widespread this was as I am unable to find any sources myself?
    Oh, it happened quite a bit back in the day (twenty years ago). 

    And of course, there was this: 

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/due-to-security-law-south-korea-is-stuck-with-internet-explorer-for-online-shopping/2013/11/03/ffd2528a-3eff-11e3-b028-de922d7a3f47_story.html


    williamlondonwatto_cobrabloggerblog
     2Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 16 of 64
    Xedxed Posts: 3,115member
    spheric said:
    Xed said:
    spheric said:
    The EU is desperate to collect a penalty fee. In the U.S. legal system, Spotify wouldn't have had the standing to complain since they had already moved 99% of their iOS subscribers to web payments WITHOUT needing any kind of in-app communication. Nothing about their financial reality supported the complaint. Not the revenue part of it or the communication part of it. 
    Yes, with a nominal GDP of almost US$20 trillion projected for 2024, I'm sure they're desperate to collect 500 million Euro from a company violating existing antitrust laws. 
    GDP isn't the same profit, so 500,000,000 € with very little comparative legal and administrative overhead does sound like a huge boon to me.
    What does that even mean? 

    Since when are governments for-profit organisations?
    Replace profit with revenue if you find the statement confusing. Either way, more money is beneficial to a governing body. So my question to you is why would you assume that the EU has little interest in 500,000,000 € simply because their GDP is significantly larger, which is something that was never in question?
    Soliwilliamlondonwatto_cobrajbdragon
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 64
    Kierkegaardenkierkegaarden Posts: 244member
    Does the EU require all stores to allow the products in the store to advertise that those same products can be purchased for less elsewhere?  Companies don’t make the same profit in each store, so why aren’t they allowed to advertise where they make the greatest profit?  

    Companies typically don’t choose the store they are in — they choose a distributor, which will sell to most any store.  The App Store is a store and distributor, so any company that sells products in the App Store knows exactly what they are signing up for, and they are not forced to sell in that transparent system.

    But you may say — it isn’t fair that the only way to get to iOS users is through the App Store.  That isn’t true — the product could be accessed through a browser.  But then you may say — users want to access the product through a native app because of speed and security, so the web based product wouldn’t generate as much revenue.  That is true — and who created this platform to allow for this?  Why shouldn’t they be paid for developing a platform that allows for greater app engagement and revenue?
    watto_cobraMrBunside
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 64
    Xedxed Posts: 3,115member
    spheric said:
    Xed said:
    nubus said:
    dewme said:
    Are EU consumers taking advantage of the bludgeoning of the "evil gatekeepers" and suddenly basking in the glory of being able to purchase EU made products and services at more affordable prices? That is the goal, improving choice and driving lower prices, isn't it? 
    Mac-users as a group have gained most from regulation (though from US). At one point 95% of all users were on the Microsoft IE browser with sites demanding ActiveX that only worked on Windows. It forced consumers to Windows as Mac browsers including IE for Mac didn't work with their banks or other basic systems. I had to switch bank to stay on Mac, but most didn't. 

    US regulation forced the unbundling of IE from Windows and it opened the web + made Mac a platform that could be used on the level as Windows for most people. And the fear of regulation forced Microsoft to make a deal with Apple to producing MS Office for "at least 5 years" + made a huge investment (+3% of Apple). At that time Apple was 90 days from going bankrupt. Microsoft needed Apple to stay alive to keep US authorities at bay. Thanks to US regulation we still have Apple and competition.
    This is the first I've heard that most Mac users were forced to switch to WinPCs to use financial websites. I certainly never had this problem. Would you please post some links showing how widespread this was as I am unable to find any sources myself?
    Oh, it happened quite a bit back in the day (twenty years ago). 

    And of course, there was this: 

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/due-to-security-law-south-korea-is-stuck-with-internet-explorer-for-online-shopping/2013/11/03/ffd2528a-3eff-11e3-b028-de922d7a3f47_story.html
    That link is about purchases, not banking, and it refers to South Korea, not the US. 

    I'm not saying this didn't happen to you, but I do doubt that your anecdotal experience translated to a mass exodus of Mac users to switch to WinPCs. If something this widespread had occurred I'm surprised that I wasn't aware of it and that there aren't countless articles easily had. Your comment also indicates that you were able to move to a bank whose online system didn't require ActiveX which means that it was possible to use a bank that supported more open web standards.
    edited February 2024
    Soliwatto_cobrawilliamlondon
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 19 of 64
    mikethemartianmikethemartian Posts: 1,618member
    rob53 said:
    rhbellmor said:
    As an Apple shareholder I hope Apple has factored this cost of doing business in Europe into their pricing in Europe.  Seems to me Europe looks at large U.S. tech companies like Apple to pay for their bloated national budgets.
    The US already supports a lot of the EU making these stupid lawsuits revolting. The EU doesn’t make many products used worldwide, especially compared to the USA. I hope Apple starts charging a high tax on everything going to the EU. The USA will continue to support a dying continent and the EU needs to remember that. 
    Who do you think makes all those lithography machines that TSMC uses to fabricate Apple’s chips?
    baconstangsphericmuthuk_vanalingam
     2Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 20 of 64
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,731member
    Everything you want to know about how fines are computed, and where the money goes:
    https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/index/fines_en#:~:text=Fines imposed on undertakings found,following year are reduced accordingly.
    spheric
     0Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
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