Apple's new RCS stance may have been forced by China

AppleInsider

Apple's decision to introduce RCS support to iMessage sometime in 2024 wasn't caused by pressure from Europe, according to a new report, but instead China may have had more to do with the move.

RCS support will be added to the iPhone sometime in 2024

In November, after years of pressure from Google, Apple agreed it would introduce support for the somewhat flawed RCS messaging standard in iMessage. At the time, Apple said it would arrive during 2024 at some point.

But while it was thought by some that the European Union had something to do with it, one report believes it could've been political pressure from China that caused Apple's change of heart.

John Gruber's Daring Fireball first refers to the European Commission's decision that Apple didn't qualify as a "gatekeeper" to be affected by the inbound Digital Markets Act. The decision means that Europe wasn't going to force Apple into allowing third-party apps to use iMessage services.

He refers to reports in November about Apple's decision somehow being influenced by Europe as making "zero sense," other than seemingly revealing a belief in some of government regulation being better than relying on market forces.

Gruber adds that there were EU leaks from September that iMessage wasn't to be considered a gatekeeper, before Apple's November RCS confirmation. This meant the Europe claims "made no sense timing-wise."

The lack of a direct mention of RCS in DMA is also a factor. The act does mention messaging platform interoperability but as RCS isn't an interoperability protocol and lacks encryption as a messaging platform, it's not much better than SMS itself.

There's also discussion about the assumption of the Commission forcing Apple's hand being "lazy thinking" according to Gruber, despite years of Apple's reluctance to support RCS.

Apple's use of both phone numbers and emails to allow users to use iMessage also stands out compared to other platforms, especially when mixing with carrier-based SMS services. The use of emails as a primary unique identifier for iMessage alongside phone numbers means you can use it without a phone number at all.

The SMS support in the Messages app is more Apple magic than something permeating all of its hardeare, as the SMS itself is still sent and received through an iPhone, and Apple merely handles inter-device synchronization. The Mac is not capable of handling SMS on its own without the iPhone as a conduit.

SMS requires the iPhone to work, and RCS does too, but iMessage does not, Gruber adds. Even if iMessage was deemed a gatekeeper platform, the addition of RCS wouldn't have mattered for DMA compliance since the messages app is a multi-platform app: iMessage and SMS.

China is requiring RCS

To answer why Apple changed its stance on RCS, Gruber cannot say with certainty, but after months of online whispers, he declares Apple's hand "was effectively forced" by China.

Gruber points out that Chinese carriers have supported RCS for years, to the level that the Chinese government started in 2023 to codify into law that new 5G devices would require RCS support to be certified in the country.

Highlighting the country's issues with surveillance and privacy, Gruber believes the Chinese government doesn't care about RCS lacking encryption.

He underlines the claims, insisting "iOS support for RCS is all about China."

Though Apple is thought to prefer to ignore RCS so it doesn't have to deal with new non-E2EE protocols or new carrier-controlled protocols, the control of China's government comes into play and forces changes, the report concludes.



Read on AppleInsider

blastdoor

The thing that makes the EU vastly better than China is that if their citizens don’t like something, they can complain and vote. Even foreign companies like Apple can complain and appeal decisions. 

With dictatorships like China (and Russia), there’s far less freedom to dissent. 

The big worry with Apple and China is — what happens if China secretly demands that Apple spy on American or European citizens? Would Apple comply if the alternative is China shutting down iPhone production and banning sales in China? I personally don’t think Cook would comply with that demand. But what about the next guy or the guy after that?

lowededwookie

This makes sense more than the EU. The EU is such a bit player in Apple's bottom line but China is where Apple makes most of its money.

Adding support to the Messages app is a minor issue for Apple really. They already support SMS which is less secure and less useful so adding RCS to appease its largest income makes sense.

If I was Apple, I’d still show those messages as green. People think it’s to highlight who the Android users are but it’s literally to reveal those who are using SMS. I’d still leave non-iMessage users as green to highlight they are on a different platform. You’d just see more people in the chat than you otherwise would.

If someone gets all hooey about the colour bubbles without understanding the real reason behind why those exist then that should be on them, not Apple.

danox

Why would Apple want to adopt Google's in house solution? Makes no sense next up adopt Meta Quest, Epic and Microsoft.

danox

blastdoor said:

The thing that makes the EU vastly better than China is that if their citizens don’t like something, they can complain and vote. Even foreign companies like Apple can complain and appeal decisions. 

With dictatorships like China (and Russia), there’s far less freedom to dissent. 

The big worry with Apple and China is — what happens if China secretly demands that Apple spy on American or European citizens? Would Apple comply if the alternative is China shutting down iPhone production and banning sales in China? I personally don’t think Cook would comply with that demand. But what about the next guy or the guy after that?

The big worry is why do so many members of Republican Party today are actually in love with Putin. Apple simply isn't going to adopt Google solutions.

mikethemartian

danox said:

blastdoor said:

The thing that makes the EU vastly better than China is that if their citizens don’t like something, they can complain and vote. Even foreign companies like Apple can complain and appeal decisions. 

With dictatorships like China (and Russia), there’s far less freedom to dissent. 

The big worry with Apple and China is — what happens if China secretly demands that Apple spy on American or European citizens? Would Apple comply if the alternative is China shutting down iPhone production and banning sales in China? I personally don’t think Cook would comply with that demand. But what about the next guy or the guy after that?

The big worry is why do so many members of Republican Party today are actually in love with Putin. Apple simply isn't going to adopt Google solutions.

I grew up with President Reagan and I view the current Republican party as an insult to his legacy.

mikethemartian

blastdoor said:

The thing that makes the EU vastly better than China is that if their citizens don’t like something, they can complain and vote. Even foreign companies like Apple can complain and appeal decisions. 

With dictatorships like China (and Russia), there’s far less freedom to dissent. 

The big worry with Apple and China is — what happens if China secretly demands that Apple spy on American or European citizens? Would Apple comply if the alternative is China shutting down iPhone production and banning sales in China? I personally don’t think Cook would comply with that demand. But what about the next guy or the guy after that?

Apple is going to always choose the path that maximizes their shareholder value like any other publicly traded company.

eriamjh

We don't come here for politics.  We come here for Apple news.  

strangedays

mikethemartian said:

blastdoor said:

The thing that makes the EU vastly better than China is that if their citizens don’t like something, they can complain and vote. Even foreign companies like Apple can complain and appeal decisions. 

With dictatorships like China (and Russia), there’s far less freedom to dissent. 

The big worry with Apple and China is — what happens if China secretly demands that Apple spy on American or European citizens? Would Apple comply if the alternative is China shutting down iPhone production and banning sales in China? I personally don’t think Cook would comply with that demand. But what about the next guy or the guy after that?

Apple is going to always choose the path that maximizes their shareholder value like any other publicly traded company.

Incorrect. Apple manages itself to delight the customer, not maximize profits. It's a myth that you have to make all decisions to maximize shareholder value, and in fact some business leaders like GE's famous CEO Jack Welch called doing so the "dumbest idea in the world":

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/11/28/maximizing-shareholder-value-the-dumbest-idea-in-the-world/

gatorguy

danox said:

Why would Apple want to adopt Google's in house solution? Makes no sense next up adopt Meta Quest, Epic and Microsoft.

Who in this thread suggested they do? I missed that comment. 

lista

danox said:

Why would Apple want to adopt Google's in house solution? Makes no sense next up adopt Meta Quest, Epic and Microsoft.

who said it was just Google's? there's literally no Google presence in China they're banned there for not confirming to Chinese Government Surveillance & privacy laws(every company in China have to, including Apple), Google only takes care of the Android side with Google Services. Universal RCS is managed by GSMA who also managed SMS/MMS. Even back then Microsoft Windows phones had the early RCS.  it's a universal standard & Apple haven't really brought anything to help the universal standard, maybe they would now.

chasm

Apple has already made it clear that it will adopt RCS the moment the governing body (GMSA) accepts proposed changes for encryption and better security. This will be happening later this year, so thanks to Apple everyone on both platforms scores a win.

Google’s been using RCS for years and never once thought to make the GSMA add more security and encryption. One has to wonder why.

lista

StrangeDays said:

mikethemartian said:

blastdoor said:

The thing that makes the EU vastly better than China is that if their citizens don’t like something, they can complain and vote. Even foreign companies like Apple can complain and appeal decisions. 

With dictatorships like China (and Russia), there’s far less freedom to dissent. 

The big worry with Apple and China is — what happens if China secretly demands that Apple spy on American or European citizens? Would Apple comply if the alternative is China shutting down iPhone production and banning sales in China? I personally don’t think Cook would comply with that demand. But what about the next guy or the guy after that?

Apple is going to always choose the path that maximizes their shareholder value like any other publicly traded company.

Incorrect. Apple manages itself to delight the customer, not maximize profits. It's a myth that you have to make all decisions to maximize shareholder value, and in fact some business leaders like GE's famous CEO Jack Welch called doing so the "dumbest idea in the world":

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/11/28/maximizing-shareholder-value-the-dumbest-idea-in-the-world/

then why did Apple transfers it's users' iCloud data & encryption keys to the Chinese Government? or tried censoring protests?

doesn't sound very delightful to customers, unless Apple's customer is the Chinese government

gatorguy

chasm said:

Apple has already made it clear that it will adopt RCS the moment the governing body (GMSA) accepts proposed changes for encryption and better security. This will be happening later this year, so thanks to Apple everyone on both platforms scores a win.

Google’s been using RCS for years and never once thought to make the GSMA add more security and encryption. One has to wonder why.

The only thing I wonder is why you never read the links you're given that would have saved you from another FUD post.

Google has tried for years to prod the GSMA, which is controlled by the carriers, to work with them on E2EE. You are almost certainly unaware that it was Google who gave GSMA the tools to finally make RCS a worldwide standard back in 2016. Still, carriers were not onboard with RCS default encryption (for obvious reasons), at least in the timeframe that Google wanted, which was "let's start work on it now."

So in 2019 Google announced they'd do so themselves, no more waiting.

Before you make statements, wouldn't it be a great idea to familiarize yourself with the topic? Here's links you've been given before but apparently refuse to read. https://www.gsma.com/newsroom/press-release/global-operators-google-and-the-gsma-align-behind-adoption-of-rcs/ https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18681573/google-rcs-chat-android-texting-carriers-imessage-encryption

edited February 2024

beowulfschmidt

mikethemartian said:

danox said:

blastdoor said:

The thing that makes the EU vastly better than China is that if their citizens don’t like something, they can complain and vote. Even foreign companies like Apple can complain and appeal decisions. 

With dictatorships like China (and Russia), there’s far less freedom to dissent. 

The big worry with Apple and China is — what happens if China secretly demands that Apple spy on American or European citizens? Would Apple comply if the alternative is China shutting down iPhone production and banning sales in China? I personally don’t think Cook would comply with that demand. But what about the next guy or the guy after that?

The big worry is why do so many members of Republican Party today are actually in love with Putin. Apple simply isn't going to adopt Google solutions.

I grew up with President Reagan and I view the current Republican party as an insult to his legacy.

I grew up with Barry Goldwater, and while no where near perfect himself, both Reagan and virtually every Republican in the last three decades is an insult to his legacy, and those Republicans who are decent people have no chance of being elected because the corrupt party apparatus won't let them.

I also grew up with Jimmy Carter, and while definitely not perfect, almost every Democrat in the last three decades is an insult to his legacy, and those Democrats who are decent people have no chance of being elected because the corrupt party apparatus won't let them.

macsince1987

lowededwookie said:

This makes sense more than the EU. The EU is such a bit player in Apple's bottom line but China is where Apple makes most of its money.

Adding support to the Messages app is a minor issue for Apple really. They already support SMS which is less secure and less useful so adding RCS to appease its largest income makes sense.

If I was Apple, I’d still show those messages as green. People think it’s to highlight who the Android users are but it’s literally to reveal those who are using SMS. I’d still leave non-iMessage users as green to highlight they are on a different platform. You’d just see more people in the chat than you otherwise would.

If someone gets all hooey about the colour bubbles without understanding the real reason behind why those exist then that should be on them, not Apple.

Interesting lowededwookie but inaccurate and misleading. China's potential market dwarfs that of the US and Europe. However Europe's $30 billion market is hardly a 'bit player' in Apple's bottom line, which is broadly: US $50B, Europe $30B, China $20B, Japan/Asia $15B. 

danox

MacSince1987 said:

lowededwookie said:

This makes sense more than the EU. The EU is such a bit player in Apple's bottom line but China is where Apple makes most of its money.

Adding support to the Messages app is a minor issue for Apple really. They already support SMS which is less secure and less useful so adding RCS to appease its largest income makes sense.

If I was Apple, I’d still show those messages as green. People think it’s to highlight who the Android users are but it’s literally to reveal those who are using SMS. I’d still leave non-iMessage users as green to highlight they are on a different platform. You’d just see more people in the chat than you otherwise would.

If someone gets all hooey about the colour bubbles without understanding the real reason behind why those exist then that should be on them, not Apple.

Interesting lowededwookie but inaccurate and misleading. China's potential market dwarfs that of the US and Europe. However Europe's $30 billion market is hardly a 'bit player' in Apple's bottom line, which is broadly: US $50B, Europe $30B, China $20B, Japan/Asia $15B. 

The EU represents is only 7% of Apple total App Store sales worldwide, the market in Japan, China, and the USA are all larger by far than the entire EU when counted separately, the EU is falling behind the rest of the world their actions won't save tech in Europe not the way they are going about it propping up Spotify is the wrong way.

https://www.appflow.ai/blog/2022-annual-report-top-grossing-apps-and-categories-in-app-store Top 10 Revenues by country (Germany and France are it and both are way behind).

https://apple.slashdot.org/story/24/02/02/217244/apple-says-eu-represents-7-of-global-app-store-revenue

https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/01/apple-says-eu-represents-7-of-global-app-store-revenue/

https://9to5mac.com/2024/02/01/apple-says-the-eu-accounts-for-just-7-of-its-global-app-store-revenue/

edited February 2024