I mean, this is one of those things that won't be supremely cost effective until fusion power, at which point the demand for oil should diminish quite a bit. But regardless, there will be needs for oil, so this process, if perfected, should be quite amazing.
... If a 175-pound man fell into one end, he would come out the other end as 38 pounds of oil, 7 pounds of gas, and 7 pounds of minerals, as well as 123 pounds of sterilized water. While no one plans to put people into a thermal depolymerization machine, an intimate human creation could become a prime feedstock. "There is no reason why we can't turn sewage, including human excrement, into a glorious oil," says engineer Terry Adams, a project consultant.
Upon reading it, it almost seems like they are breaking the laws of thermodynamics. They are getting energy out of nothing, or are producing more energy then they are using, but the process is more akin to an oil refinery rather than a power plant, so it probably shouldn't be thought of that way. It appears that it will cost $15/barrel of oil produced, so we know the process isn't "free".
No no no not at all. Think about this. You can burn wood and get lots of energy out of it. It's given. So why can't you "processes" it too and get what you want out it. The thermodynamics are satisfied by the tree having used photosynthesis to collect the energy. Same for the chicken or the tire (rubber tree or something like it) or the plastic which is made out of oil. So it makes perfect sense to me. If it works
This may sound totally weird and utterly unbelievable, but...
I actually came up with an idea such as this on my own as early as 1978, as a pre-teen. Don't believe me? I don't care. I wouldn't expect anyone to. I just know I did, and thought you would get a kick out of hearing it.
Essentially, I had proposed a facility that could take in organic refuse, vegetative clippings, etc., literally use intense heat and pressure, and end up with fossil fuel matter (similar to how it is created naturally). I actually went as far as to make a mock model of the facility in cardboard and spraypaint and submitted it in an alternative energy proposal contest. Never heard back from the power company (the promoters of the contest) about it, but maybe I should sue for not having been credited for the idea? [imagines cheezy cardboard model sitting preserved in this very day in some top-secret science lab of some giant corporation, next to a glass of water containing cold fusion, and a mechanical Terminator forearm]
Looking back on it, I had always concluded that my synthetic fossil fuel idea was an atrociously absurd idea that had absolutely no feasible footing. Maybe heat and pressure could do the trick, but my idea was still missing one crucial ingredient to the natural fossil fuel process- time. This stuff took millions of years to make naturally, so who knows if any combination of heat and pressure could actually do the job w/o the luxury of time. That plus the sheer ludricrous idea of compacting refuse matter and coming up with something useful and valuable just seemed so farfetched. So I had always chalked it up to some delirious ranting of a child who hadn't grasped the necessary sciences to realize what a stupid idea it was. I look back at it to this day and wonder WTF I must have been thinking as to put that much work into it for such a silly idea.
...Enter today... Well, this little development is just creepy to me.
...alternately, maybe a lot of mentally explorative adolescents have come up with this very idea in the past, but only one actually was crazy enough to research it into a real possibility that we see today?
Well, just thought I'd share that. I don't blame you if you think I'm totally lying. I got it off my chest, though.
...alternately, maybe a lot of mentally explorative adolescents have come up with this very idea in the past, but only one actually was crazy enough to research it into a real possibility that we see today?
reminds me of another science article i was reading. some guy found a way to transfer sound like a laser beam, rather than the standard light bulb spray method.
when he got done he presented his idea and got all sorts of strange reactions. turns out a LOT of people had tried this before him and failed miserably. when he found out how many brilliant people had tried and failed with his idea he said he would have never bothered if he'd known beforehand.
just goes to show you never know. i'll see if i can find a link to the article if anyone's interested.
One thing about this is that I would at least like to see the chemical process of the whole thing and some supporting research and analysis. I haven't searched that hard, but I have looked at the Changing World website and they've got all technical information locked down somewhere. Need to do some more searching.
As far as alternate energy sources, the USA isn't very progressive. Energy efficiency is the key to progress, and American mentality isn't exactly geared towards maximizing it. For example, the construction of houses is embarrasing. Contractors do the least possible for the money in terms of making something energy efficient, sort of like the car companies, energy companies, et al.
This is nothing new. The concept has been around for years. Once crude oil becomes expensive enough this will be economically feasible. Of course the people who lobby for the all powerful oil companies will decide when this happens.
I did a google for "thermal depolymerization" and there wasn't as much as I had hoped. There were some edu links and some white papers but I'd think a process like this would be better researched. The thing that put me off was that the search was swamped by commercial links.
This may sound totally weird and utterly unbelievable, but...
I actually came up with an idea such as this on my own as early as 1978, as a pre-teen. Don't believe me? I don't care.
I believe you. I invented DAT when I was about eleven, I think. I even remember where I was when I had the idea.
I also invented sleeping bags that regulate their own temperature with sort of... pores, and an 'analogue' bicycle gear system that worked on the same principle as a camera aperture, but these haven't been made.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
.... it sounds too good to be true.
"Everybody says that," says Appel.
I mean, this is one of those things that won't be supremely cost effective until fusion power, at which point the demand for oil should diminish quite a bit. But regardless, there will be needs for oil, so this process, if perfected, should be quite amazing.
Originally posted by THT
... If a 175-pound man fell into one end, he would come out the other end as 38 pounds of oil, 7 pounds of gas, and 7 pounds of minerals, as well as 123 pounds of sterilized water. While no one plans to put people into a thermal depolymerization machine, an intimate human creation could become a prime feedstock. "There is no reason why we can't turn sewage, including human excrement, into a glorious oil," says engineer Terry Adams, a project consultant.
Soylent Fuel is made of people!
and mandatory recycling rules that encourage adoption.
Think of it as Methadone for the pro- Alaskan Wildlife Reserve Drilling cheerleaders.
many birds with one stone here. lots of ripples. mmmm.
Originally posted by curiousuburb
Soylent Fuel is made of people!
I just wanted to say that I'm happy you used the color green for that sentence.
Originally posted by bunge
I just wanted to say that I'm happy you used the color green for that sentence.
wouldn't be appetizing enough in any other colour
Originally posted by THT
...
Upon reading it, it almost seems like they are breaking the laws of thermodynamics. They are getting energy out of nothing, or are producing more energy then they are using, but the process is more akin to an oil refinery rather than a power plant, so it probably shouldn't be thought of that way. It appears that it will cost $15/barrel of oil produced, so we know the process isn't "free".
No no no not at all. Think about this. You can burn wood and get lots of energy out of it. It's given. So why can't you "processes" it too and get what you want out it. The thermodynamics are satisfied by the tree having used photosynthesis to collect the energy. Same for the chicken or the tire (rubber tree or something like it) or the plastic which is made out of oil. So it makes perfect sense to me. If it works
I actually came up with an idea such as this on my own as early as 1978, as a pre-teen.
Essentially, I had proposed a facility that could take in organic refuse, vegetative clippings, etc., literally use intense heat and pressure, and end up with fossil fuel matter (similar to how it is created naturally). I actually went as far as to make a mock model of the facility in cardboard and spraypaint and submitted it in an alternative energy proposal contest. Never heard back from the power company (the promoters of the contest) about it, but maybe I should sue for not having been credited for the idea?
Looking back on it, I had always concluded that my synthetic fossil fuel idea was an atrociously absurd idea that had absolutely no feasible footing. Maybe heat and pressure could do the trick, but my idea was still missing one crucial ingredient to the natural fossil fuel process- time. This stuff took millions of years to make naturally, so who knows if any combination of heat and pressure could actually do the job w/o the luxury of time. That plus the sheer ludricrous idea of compacting refuse matter and coming up with something useful and valuable just seemed so farfetched. So I had always chalked it up to some delirious ranting of a child who hadn't grasped the necessary sciences to realize what a stupid idea it was. I look back at it to this day and wonder WTF I must have been thinking as to put that much work into it for such a silly idea.
...Enter today... Well, this little development is just creepy to me.
...alternately, maybe a lot of mentally explorative adolescents have come up with this very idea in the past, but only one actually was crazy enough to research it into a real possibility that we see today?
Well, just thought I'd share that. I don't blame you if you think I'm totally lying. I got it off my chest, though.
...alternately, maybe a lot of mentally explorative adolescents have come up with this very idea in the past, but only one actually was crazy enough to research it into a real possibility that we see today?
reminds me of another science article i was reading. some guy found a way to transfer sound like a laser beam, rather than the standard light bulb spray method.
when he got done he presented his idea and got all sorts of strange reactions. turns out a LOT of people had tried this before him and failed miserably. when he found out how many brilliant people had tried and failed with his idea he said he would have never bothered if he'd known beforehand.
just goes to show you never know. i'll see if i can find a link to the article if anyone's interested.
As far as alternate energy sources, the USA isn't very progressive. Energy efficiency is the key to progress, and American mentality isn't exactly geared towards maximizing it. For example, the construction of houses is embarrasing. Contractors do the least possible for the money in terms of making something energy efficient, sort of like the car companies, energy companies, et al.
Originally posted by Randycat99
This may sound totally weird and utterly unbelievable, but...
I actually came up with an idea such as this on my own as early as 1978, as a pre-teen.
I believe you. I invented DAT when I was about eleven, I think. I even remember where I was when I had the idea.
I also invented sleeping bags that regulate their own temperature with sort of... pores, and an 'analogue' bicycle gear system that worked on the same principle as a camera aperture, but these haven't been made.
Originally posted by Alex London
Thanks Hassan , I love my Tascam DA-30, well actually my friends studio loves it now. How do I repay you? Do you accept beer tokens?
It's a freebie. It's my pleasure.