EU DMA architect says Apple seems to want to be fined for non-compliance

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  • Reply 21 of 28
    sirdirsirdir Posts: 206member

    dewme said:

    From what I understand, Apple contributes or provides a platform that directly impacts the jobs and livelihood of more than 2.5 million EU citizens. Are those folks ready and willing to sacrifice their livelihoods because of a tiny number of malcontents and politicians who want to level the competitive landscape by dragging Apple down into the same hole that these misfits and malcontents like Epic occupy?
    Yeah if Fortnite gets back on the iPhone that will be Apple's end, right? Or maybe even the end of the EU. 
    williamlondon
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  • Reply 22 of 28
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,396member
    sirdir said:

    They already have customers on their side, you think all Apple customers were ignorant about the devices they bought or that they lied in those surveys that consistently put Apple at the top of customer service rankings? The EU is ignoring all of them by kowtowing to greedy, whiny corporate bitches like Epic and Spotify. The world is truly upside down on this.
    Funny how one of the highest vaulted companies in the world can be the victim here. I'm pretty sure Apple didn't get a high ranking by making the use of Apps impossible. 
    Why can't they be the victim? Is victimhood depending solely on money? If a rich person gets murdered by a poor person, are they not victims? 

    Tim Sweeney is worth almost 10 billion dollars. More than Apple's CEO, and more than any Apple employee. Stop pretending they're some kind of underdog. Epic blatantly broke Apple's ToS, ran a massive, cynical PR campaign against them including a 1984 rippodd ad meant to weaponize their 14 yr old Fortnite users, sued them, and shit on them every single day. It's WELL within Apple's rights to permanently revoke Epic's developer account based on their knowing and blatant violations of the terms of service. It's not a human fucking right to develop for iOS. It's a privilege. 
    tmaywilliamlondonBart Ywatto_cobra
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  • Reply 23 of 28
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,397member
    We all knew the EU legislating control of a private company was the beginning of a very steep and slippery slope. Now they are forcing Apple to keep hostile and non-compliant developers with a history of breaching contract on their platform. And this doesn't have anything to do with the newly invented, anti-Apple DMA. What the heck? A company can't choose who it does business with in the EU?

    This public commentary by an EU rep reeks of just "having it in" for Apple no matter what. No time spent considering what Apple had gone through with Epic or the fact that this kind of issue has nothing to do with compliance and everything to do with a proven contract violator who has earned themselves a ticket out the door. 

    Someone with power from America needs to go to bat here and impose sanctions on the EU for these kinds of shenanigans until they reverse course. This is evil. 
    edited March 2024
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 24 of 28
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,397member

    sirdir said:
    Dear William, you know, banning a company (and it's games) from millions of devices isn't quite the same as 'free speech'. 
    Apple can say about Epic whatever they want, in my opinion, but I as a customer don't want to fear my favorite app won't exist anymore next week because Apple might get mad at the developer. And cancelling the last account just the day 3rd party apps were enforced was a really, really stupid move. Apple is losing goodwill and reputation quickly all over the world for a fight they cannot win.
    You have it backward. If your "favorite app" disappears tomorrow, it's not because Apple is upset. It's because the developer did something wrong and then refused to make it right. So you can go to the developer to complain - and ask for a refund.
    Bart Ywatto_cobra
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  • Reply 25 of 28
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,397member

    avon b7 said:
    lam92103 said:
    India is also working on a similar law and can fine companies based on global turnover. It is not long till Apple will be forced to allow competition by laws world over. They should be using this as a PR opportunity to get customers on their side, by offering some concessions, rather trying to fight the legislation

    They already have customers on their side, you think all Apple customers were ignorant about the devices they bought or that they lied in those surveys that consistently put Apple at the top of customer service rankings? The EU is ignoring all of them by kowtowing to greedy, whiny corporate bitches like Epic and Spotify. The world is truly upside down on this.
    They are two different things. 

    Customers can only rate the services they have contact with. 

    That has nothing to do with aspects that are deliberately shielded from them. 

    Anti-steering is a classic example. 

    How many users were asked about that in those customer service surveys? 

    None? Not surprising. 

    Some of them will have become aware of it but only as a result of the complaints from developers and subsequent news coverage. 

    Most are in fact ignorant of the practices that have made the DSA/DMA necessary. 

    It would be great if someone actually surveyed people on those issues. 

    Surveying the people doesn't help. Most of them don't run a business and are unaware of the law. Would be better if the EU simply noted that Apple obeyed the law and then stopped inventing new infractions out of thin air specifically aimed at Apple's business model to begin with. 
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 26 of 28
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,243member

    avon b7 said:
    lam92103 said:
    India is also working on a similar law and can fine companies based on global turnover. It is not long till Apple will be forced to allow competition by laws world over. They should be using this as a PR opportunity to get customers on their side, by offering some concessions, rather trying to fight the legislation

    They already have customers on their side, you think all Apple customers were ignorant about the devices they bought or that they lied in those surveys that consistently put Apple at the top of customer service rankings? The EU is ignoring all of them by kowtowing to greedy, whiny corporate bitches like Epic and Spotify. The world is truly upside down on this.
    They are two different things. 

    Customers can only rate the services they have contact with. 

    That has nothing to do with aspects that are deliberately shielded from them. 

    Anti-steering is a classic example. 

    How many users were asked about that in those customer service surveys? 

    None? Not surprising. 

    Some of them will have become aware of it but only as a result of the complaints from developers and subsequent news coverage. 

    Most are in fact ignorant of the practices that have made the DSA/DMA necessary. 

    It would be great if someone actually surveyed people on those issues. 

    Surveying the people doesn't help. Most of them don't run a business and are unaware of the law. Would be better if the EU simply noted that Apple obeyed the law and then stopped inventing new infractions out of thin air specifically aimed at Apple's business model to begin with. 

    We all knew the EU legislating control of a private company was the beginning of a very steep and slippery slope. Now they are forcing Apple to keep hostile and non-compliant developers with a history of breaching contract on their platform. And this doesn't have anything to do with the newly invented, anti-Apple DMA. What the heck? A company can't choose who it does business with in the EU?

    This public commentary by an EU rep reeks of just "having it in" for Apple no matter what. No time spent considering what Apple had gone through with Epic or the fact that this kind of issue has nothing to do with compliance and everything to do with a proven contract violator who has earned themselves a ticket out the door. 

    Someone with power from America needs to go to bat here and impose sanctions on the EU for these kinds of shenanigans until they reverse course. This is evil. 
    It isn't about Apple. 

    This legislation targets an industry. 

    This industry wasn't the first either. Before this directive, the banking, energy and carrier industries were also required to adapt, and all for the same reasons. 

    No one forced Apple to re-admit Epic. Apple re-admitted Epic (Sweden) but when Epic spoke of Apple’s 'malicious compliance' (with others), a day or two later the licence was revoked without warning.

    The EU said it would like to know Apple’s side of the story (formerly).

    The US can impose all the sanctions it wants but they won't get very far. The EU has had laws in place to protect its companies from sanctions like the ones you propose. AFAIK, they have only been needed once (and in reaction to US sanctions). China has equivalent laws but hasn't used them at all yet I believe. 

    On contract law, I am no expert but I have had peripheral contact with parties involved in US/EU legal disputes, especially those involving financial punishment. None of those cases prospered. 

    I believe the US refuses to sign the conventions and treaties required to make such cross border cases become enforceable with less effort. I believe the EU has signed the most important agreements. 

    The upshot in my experience is that cases need to be re-processed in EU courts and in the best of those cases, the contract in question had to explicitly specify the jurisdictions involved. 

    It's not about a company choosing who it does business with. It's more than that, which is precisely why Apple finds itself (with others) in the situation that it's in right now. 

    That 'gatekeeper' status brings with it extra responsibilities. Apple says it has up to 2 billion users, so unilaterally terminating a developer agreement effectively acts as a kill switch. 

    That isn't a problem in itself but as soon as you take into account the 'platform' status of Apple, things take on a different reading and red flags start popping up for potential abuse of dominant position. 

    That's where the EU interest comes in. 

    'Public commentary' by someone who actually plays a role in these situations is not a problem. 

    Compare that with the ridiculous, uninformed and unchecked comments from senators in the US and you quickly realise there is little to see here. 



    gatorguymuthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 27 of 28
    blitz1blitz1 Posts: 451member
    Under the DMA, there is no room for threats by GATEKEEPERS to silence DEVELOPERS.

    DMA does not product the little ones (Apple Music) against the big guys (Spotify).
    It protects the developers from the whims of the gatekeepers.
    williamlondon
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  • Reply 28 of 28
    bala1234bala1234 Posts: 173member
    Ughh.. entrenched parties on all sides. Rest of us have only two choices
    1. Get some popcorn and watch things play out or
    2. Ignore it and wait for the dust to settle down (my preferred)
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
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