M4 MacBook Pro rumored to already be in development at Apple

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware

Apple released new MacBook Pro models with M3 in October 2023, but the company isn't ready to slow down yet. Rumors suggest that the M4 MacBook Pro lineup is already in development.

A closed MacBook Pro lies on a white table surrounded by objects like a Nikon camera, a notepad, a hat, and an AirPods case
Apple is already working on the M4 MacBook Pro



The transition to Apple Silicon from Intel left many unknowns, like how often Apple would iterate and release chipsets. The COVID-19 pandemic threw a curveball and ruined any ability to predict the cycle early on, but rumors of M4 entering development hint at what to expect going forward.

Apple Silicon entered its third generation in October 2023 with the announcement of three chipsets -- M3, M3 Pro, and M3 Max. It was the first time Apple announced three chips at once, leaving only the M3 Ultra for a later date.

There are rumors of an M4 entering development, even though the M3 MacBook Air was released only days prior. Apple is always pushing for the next product internally, but it raises the frequency question again.

Apple's Silicon release cycle



The M1 release cycle was extended for multiple reasons, primarily because of the pandemic and how it affected the supply chain. M1 was first revealed in November 2020, and the release cycle was completed in March 2022.

The M2 underwent an accelerated release cycle, starting with its reveal in June 2022 and ending with the M2 Ultra in June 2023 -- just one year later.

Mere months pass, and M3 is revealed in October 2023 alongside M3 Pro and M3 Max. It seems M3 Ultra could be revealed somewhere between June and November 2024.

That leaves M4 to be announced no sooner than late 2024 or early 2025. It seems incredible that Apple would iterate Mac chipsets and product lines annually, but it already does so with iPhone.

A rumor hinting at what's next



Recall that one of the significant reasons Apple pivoted to Apple Silicon was to control the product pipeline and know when new chips were coming. Intel did not give the company such an affordance, leaving some product lines to languish as chips were delayed repeatedly.

The M4 rumor comes from a throwaway comment at the end of an Apple Car Q&A held by Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. This tidbit was first covered by MacRumors.

You don't have to have deep industry sources to know Apple is working on M4, but the timing hasn't always been predictable. Gurman stated that M4 "just started formal development," providing a glimpse into the potential release timeline for the next generation of Apple Silicon.

Rumor Score: Likely

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    Why would this be a rumor? It is certain to be true.
    ciamacxpressdanoxmike1OferhmurchisonelijahgnarwhalStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 19
    ciacia Posts: 256member
    Why would this be a rumor? It is certain to be true.
    Yea no kidding.  What's next?  A story about how there are potentially iPhone 17 concepts already being tossed around inside Apple Engineering?
    macxpressmike1Oferelijahgmikeybabeswatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 19
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,810member
    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Apple is developing the M5 MacBook Pro....

    Apple plans their products years in advance. It's not like they start a year or less before they announce it. 
    diz_geekdesciencedanoxOferjas99elijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 19
    With these "rumors", I always go back to the top 100 exec. meeting email from 2010. The 1st iPad was revealed January 2010, released in April. This meeting email is from October 2010, and they are already internally demoing the screen of iPad 3, the 1st retina iPad, which was released March 2012. iPhone 4, the 1st retina iPhone was released June 2010.

    4. iPad – Bob, Jony, Dan Riccio, Michael Tchao ,Randy Ubillos, Xander Soren, Roger Rosner
    – 2011 Strategy: ship iPad 2 with amazing hardware and software before our competitors even catch up with our current model
    – Business & competitive update – Michael
    – Apps, corporate adoption, …
    – show Samsung, HP(?) anf iPad ads
    – 2011 Product Roadmap
    – Bob, Dan & Jony
    – iPad 2
    – new ID, H4, UMTS + Verizon in one model, cameras, …
    – EVT units & cases
    – HDMI dongle (use for projection of demos below?)
    – iPad 3
    – display, H4T
    - DEMOS:- PhotoBooth (Michael?)
    – iMovie (Randy)
    – GarageBand (Xander)
    – text book authoring system (Roger)
    – working display for iPad 3 (during break)

    https://qz.com/196005/the-steve-jobs-email-that-outlined-apples-strategy-a-year-before-his-death
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 19
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,305member
    I wonder if the ‘big’ cpu cores will get an upgrade beyond clock speed bumps. It’s been a while since apple has really improved those cores. 
    nubuswatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 19
    Anybody who’s ever done engineering will tell you OF COURSE they are working on M4 MacBook Pro. They are probably in production verification (PVT) already. 
    These things don’t just fall out of Jozwiak’s ass periodically.
    nubusjas99hmurchisonwilliamlondonelijahg9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 19
    nubusnubus Posts: 386member
    Will Apple move to LPDDR5x - faster and with reduced power consumption? MS Surface and Lenovo T-series are already running the x variant.M3 Pro is a M3+. Will M4 Pro become a proper upgrade from M1/M2 Pro or is Apple happy to keep Pro down to sell Max?M3 was the GPU chip, will M4 be the AI chip?It will obviously have Wifi 7 now that even Dell XPS is shipping with it.Thunderbolt 5 is ready and 2-3x faster. Perhaps only for Max and Ultra?OLED display? If iPad is leaving Mini LED then MBP could do the same. The MBP display is a bit too thick and OLED is looking nice. However, the Mac menu bar and OLED could cause burn-in.Bluetooth Auracast... is it going to be a software or hardware feature? https://hearinghealthfoundation.org/blogs/auracast-update says Apple is working on it.
  • Reply 8 of 19
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    I miss the good ole days when the AIM coalition would be delayed months on processor releases.  Computing life has become too predictable ....people no longer remember the Tech pestilence and famine that shaped users into the grizzled vets they would become. 
    tenthousandthingsargonautwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 19
    If the past is any indication, then, yes, M4 will be based on A18, and it (M4) will launch in June 2025. That's the A15/M2 release pattern. TSMC N3P will be the process node for this, with volume production in "2H 2024" and so it is obviously in risk production right now, with Apple leading the way.

    It is too soon to say this, but I will anyway: the silicon production cadence is set now. The only real unknown (in my view) is whether or not every Mac will get every generation of Apple M silicon, every 18 months (not all at once, but spread out within that period). I think probably yes (the M2 iMac was a casualty of the global pandemic), but we'll see.

    Here's my predictions (within the current Pro/Max/Ultra structure, that is, leaving out the possibility of some kind of "Extreme" Mac Pro configuration):

    A14 Bionic (October 2020) [TSMC 5nm gen1 "N5"]
    M1 (November 2020) [TSMC N5]
    M1 Pro/Max (October 2021) 
    M1 Ultra (March 2022) 

    A15 Bionic (September 2021) [TSMC 5nm gen2 "N5P"]
    M2 (June 2022) [TSMC N5P]
    M2 Pro/Max (January 2023) 
    M2 Ultra (June 2023) 

    A16 Bionic (September 2022) [TSMC 5nm gen4 "N4P"]

    A17 Pro (September 2023) [TSMC 3nm gen1 "N3"]
    M3, M3 Pro/Max (October 2023) [TSMC N3]
    M3 Ultra (June 2024) 

    A18, A18 Pro (September 2024) [TSMC 3nm gen3 "N3P"]
    M4, M4 Pro/Max (June 2025) [TSMC N3P]
    M4 Ultra (January 2026) 

    A19, A19 Pro (September 2025) [TSMC 2nm gen1 "N2"]

    A20, A20 Pro (September 2026) [TSMC 2nm gen2 "N2P"]
    M5, M5 Pro/Max (October 2026) [TSMC N2P]
    M5 Ultra (June 2027) 
    edited March 12 blastdoorapple4thewincanukstormmuthuk_vanalingamargonautwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 19
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,305member
    If the past is any indication, then, yes, M4 will be based on A18, and it (M4) will launch in June 2025. That's the A15/M2 release pattern. TSMC N3P will be the process node for this, with volume production in "2H 2024" and so it is obviously in risk production right now, with Apple leading the way.

    It is too soon to say this, but I will anyway: the silicon production cadence is set now. The only real unknown (in my view) is whether or not every Mac will get every generation of Apple M silicon, every 18 months (not all at once, but spread out within that period). I think probably yes (the M2 iMac was a casualty of the global pandemic), but we'll see.

    Here's my predictions (within the current Pro/Max/Ultra structure, that is, leaving out the possibility of some kind of "Extreme" Mac Pro configuration):

    A14 Bionic (October 2020) [TSMC 5nm gen1 "N5"]
    M1 (November 2020) [TSMC N5]
    M1 Pro/Max (October 2021) 
    M1 Ultra (March 2022) 

    A15 Bionic (September 2021) [TSMC 5nm gen2 "N5P"]
    M2 (June 2022) [TSMC N5P]
    M2 Pro/Max (January 2023) 
    M2 Ultra (June 2023) 

    A16 Bionic (September 2022) [TSMC 5nm gen4 "N4P"]

    A17 Pro (September 2023) [TSMC 3nm gen1 "N3"]
    M3, M3 Pro/Max (October 2023) [TSMC N3]
    M3 Ultra (June 2024) 

    A18, A18 Pro (September 2024) [TSMC 3nm gen3 "N3P"]
    M4, M4 Pro/Max (June 2025) [TSMC N3P]
    M4 Ultra (January 2026) 

    A19, A19 Pro (September 2025) [TSMC 2nm gen1 "N2"]

    A20, A20 Pro (September 2026) [TSMC 2nm gen2 "N2P"]
    M5, M5 Pro/Max (October 2026) [TSMC N2P]
    M5 Ultra (June 2027) 
    That's a helpful breakdown, but isn't it called N3E, not N3P?
    nubusnetroxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 19
    If the past is any indication, then, yes, M4 will be based on A18, and it (M4) will launch in June 2025. That's the A15/M2 release pattern. TSMC N3P will be the process node for this, with volume production in "2H 2024" and so it is obviously in risk production right now, with Apple leading the way.

    It is too soon to say this, but I will anyway: the silicon production cadence is set now. The only real unknown (in my view) is whether or not every Mac will get every generation of Apple M silicon, every 18 months (not all at once, but spread out within that period). I think probably yes (the M2 iMac was a casualty of the global pandemic), but we'll see.

    Here's my predictions (within the current Pro/Max/Ultra structure, that is, leaving out the possibility of some kind of "Extreme" Mac Pro configuration):

    A14 Bionic (October 2020) [TSMC 5nm gen1 "N5"]
    M1 (November 2020) [TSMC N5]
    M1 Pro/Max (October 2021) 
    M1 Ultra (March 2022) 

    A15 Bionic (September 2021) [TSMC 5nm gen2 "N5P"]
    M2 (June 2022) [TSMC N5P]
    M2 Pro/Max (January 2023) 
    M2 Ultra (June 2023) 

    A16 Bionic (September 2022) [TSMC 5nm gen4 "N4P"]

    A17 Pro (September 2023) [TSMC 3nm gen1 "N3"]
    M3, M3 Pro/Max (October 2023) [TSMC N3]
    M3 Ultra (June 2024) 

    A18, A18 Pro (September 2024) [TSMC 3nm gen3 "N3P"]
    M4, M4 Pro/Max (June 2025) [TSMC N3P]
    M4 Ultra (January 2026) 

    A19, A19 Pro (September 2025) [TSMC 2nm gen1 "N2"]

    A20, A20 Pro (September 2026) [TSMC 2nm gen2 "N2P"]
    M5, M5 Pro/Max (October 2026) [TSMC N2P]
    M5 Ultra (June 2027) 
    Yup your trajectory matches what I was thinking and with 1.8nm in 2027 and 1.4nm 2029ish. I plan on getting the 16 pro max this year with a 2027-28 upgrade followed by first or second year 6g iPhone upgrade which should put it 30-31 and the start of the silicon scare
    tenthousandthingswatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 19
    blastdoor said:
    If the past is any indication, then, yes, M4 will be based on A18, and it (M4) will launch in June 2025. That's the A15/M2 release pattern. TSMC N3P will be the process node for this, with volume production in "2H 2024" and so it is obviously in risk production right now, with Apple leading the way.

    It is too soon to say this, but I will anyway: the silicon production cadence is set now. The only real unknown (in my view) is whether or not every Mac will get every generation of Apple M silicon, every 18 months (not all at once, but spread out within that period). I think probably yes (the M2 iMac was a casualty of the global pandemic), but we'll see.

    Here's my predictions (within the current Pro/Max/Ultra structure, that is, leaving out the possibility of some kind of "Extreme" Mac Pro configuration):

    A14 Bionic (October 2020) [TSMC 5nm gen1 "N5"]
    M1 (November 2020) [TSMC N5]
    M1 Pro/Max (October 2021) 
    M1 Ultra (March 2022) 

    A15 Bionic (September 2021) [TSMC 5nm gen2 "N5P"]
    M2 (June 2022) [TSMC N5P]
    M2 Pro/Max (January 2023) 
    M2 Ultra (June 2023) 

    A16 Bionic (September 2022) [TSMC 5nm gen4 "N4P"]

    A17 Pro (September 2023) [TSMC 3nm gen1 "N3"]
    M3, M3 Pro/Max (October 2023) [TSMC N3]
    M3 Ultra (June 2024) 

    A18, A18 Pro (September 2024) [TSMC 3nm gen3 "N3P"]
    M4, M4 Pro/Max (June 2025) [TSMC N3P]
    M4 Ultra (January 2026) 

    A19, A19 Pro (September 2025) [TSMC 2nm gen1 "N2"]

    A20, A20 Pro (September 2026) [TSMC 2nm gen2 "N2P"]
    M5, M5 Pro/Max (October 2026) [TSMC N2P]
    M5 Ultra (June 2027) 
    That's a helpful breakdown, but isn't it called N3E, not N3P?
    No, in my view, N3P is next. Apple will skip N3E.

    N3E is in volume production now, but Apple isn’t using it, as far as we know. N3P is a small adjustment to N3E, and Apple is in a unique position to leapfrog onto it, instead of using N3E like everyone else.
    edited March 12 9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 19
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,305member
    blastdoor said:
    If the past is any indication, then, yes, M4 will be based on A18, and it (M4) will launch in June 2025. That's the A15/M2 release pattern. TSMC N3P will be the process node for this, with volume production in "2H 2024" and so it is obviously in risk production right now, with Apple leading the way.

    It is too soon to say this, but I will anyway: the silicon production cadence is set now. The only real unknown (in my view) is whether or not every Mac will get every generation of Apple M silicon, every 18 months (not all at once, but spread out within that period). I think probably yes (the M2 iMac was a casualty of the global pandemic), but we'll see.

    Here's my predictions (within the current Pro/Max/Ultra structure, that is, leaving out the possibility of some kind of "Extreme" Mac Pro configuration):

    A14 Bionic (October 2020) [TSMC 5nm gen1 "N5"]
    M1 (November 2020) [TSMC N5]
    M1 Pro/Max (October 2021) 
    M1 Ultra (March 2022) 

    A15 Bionic (September 2021) [TSMC 5nm gen2 "N5P"]
    M2 (June 2022) [TSMC N5P]
    M2 Pro/Max (January 2023) 
    M2 Ultra (June 2023) 

    A16 Bionic (September 2022) [TSMC 5nm gen4 "N4P"]

    A17 Pro (September 2023) [TSMC 3nm gen1 "N3"]
    M3, M3 Pro/Max (October 2023) [TSMC N3]
    M3 Ultra (June 2024) 

    A18, A18 Pro (September 2024) [TSMC 3nm gen3 "N3P"]
    M4, M4 Pro/Max (June 2025) [TSMC N3P]
    M4 Ultra (January 2026) 

    A19, A19 Pro (September 2025) [TSMC 2nm gen1 "N2"]

    A20, A20 Pro (September 2026) [TSMC 2nm gen2 "N2P"]
    M5, M5 Pro/Max (October 2026) [TSMC N2P]
    M5 Ultra (June 2027) 
    That's a helpful breakdown, but isn't it called N3E, not N3P?
    No, in my view, N3P is next. Apple will skip N3E.

    N3E is in volume production now, but Apple isn’t using it, as far as we know. N3P is a small adjustment to N3E, and Apple is in a unique position to leapfrog onto it, instead of using N3E like everyone else.
    I read N3P enters volume production in the second half of 2024. If true, that seems too late to support an iPhone launch. But I suppose there's always some uncertainty about these timelines, so maybe Apple will manage to get early access. 

    I wonder, though, if Apple will use N3E this year, N3P next year, and N2 might only come in 2026. As you note, Apple went three years on different spins of TSMC's 5nm process. The same thing might happen with 3nm. 

    According to https://www.anandtech.com/show/21241/tsmc-2nm-update-two-fabs-in-construction-one-awaiting-government-approval, volume production on N2 isn't planned until 2H of 2025 which seems too late to support a 2025 iPhone launch. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 19
    blastdoor said:
    blastdoor said:
    If the past is any indication, then, yes, M4 will be based on A18, and it (M4) will launch in June 2025. That's the A15/M2 release pattern. TSMC N3P will be the process node for this, with volume production in "2H 2024" and so it is obviously in risk production right now, with Apple leading the way.

    It is too soon to say this, but I will anyway: the silicon production cadence is set now. The only real unknown (in my view) is whether or not every Mac will get every generation of Apple M silicon, every 18 months (not all at once, but spread out within that period). I think probably yes (the M2 iMac was a casualty of the global pandemic), but we'll see.

    Here's my predictions (within the current Pro/Max/Ultra structure, that is, leaving out the possibility of some kind of "Extreme" Mac Pro configuration):

    A14 Bionic (October 2020) [TSMC 5nm gen1 "N5"]
    M1 (November 2020) [TSMC N5]
    M1 Pro/Max (October 2021) 
    M1 Ultra (March 2022) 

    A15 Bionic (September 2021) [TSMC 5nm gen2 "N5P"]
    M2 (June 2022) [TSMC N5P]
    M2 Pro/Max (January 2023) 
    M2 Ultra (June 2023) 

    A16 Bionic (September 2022) [TSMC 5nm gen4 "N4P"]

    A17 Pro (September 2023) [TSMC 3nm gen1 "N3"]
    M3, M3 Pro/Max (October 2023) [TSMC N3]
    M3 Ultra (June 2024) 

    A18, A18 Pro (September 2024) [TSMC 3nm gen3 "N3P"]
    M4, M4 Pro/Max (June 2025) [TSMC N3P]
    M4 Ultra (January 2026) 

    A19, A19 Pro (September 2025) [TSMC 2nm gen1 "N2"]

    A20, A20 Pro (September 2026) [TSMC 2nm gen2 "N2P"]
    M5, M5 Pro/Max (October 2026) [TSMC N2P]
    M5 Ultra (June 2027) 
    That's a helpful breakdown, but isn't it called N3E, not N3P?
    No, in my view, N3P is next. Apple will skip N3E.

    N3E is in volume production now, but Apple isn’t using it, as far as we know. N3P is a small adjustment to N3E, and Apple is in a unique position to leapfrog onto it, instead of using N3E like everyone else.
    I read N3P enters volume production in the second half of 2024. If true, that seems too late to support an iPhone launch. But I suppose there's always some uncertainty about these timelines, so maybe Apple will manage to get early access. 

    I wonder, though, if Apple will use N3E this year, N3P next year, and N2 might only come in 2026. As you note, Apple went three years on different spins of TSMC's 5nm process. The same thing might happen with 3nm. 

    According to https://www.anandtech.com/show/21241/tsmc-2nm-update-two-fabs-in-construction-one-awaiting-government-approval, volume production on N2 isn't planned until 2H of 2025 which seems too late to support a 2025 iPhone launch. 
    Well, if that were true ("2H" for volume production means no iPhone launch on that node in September of that year) then A16 Bionic would not be on N4P, and A17 Pro would not be on N3 (also known as N3B, though TSMC appears to have shifted back to calling it N3 now that N3E is established)... TSMC used "2H" for both of those, it looks like standard practice for them now with regard to estimates for the nodes where iPhone will be the first consumer product to launch, and they're using the same protocol for N2 ("2H 2025") and N2P ("2H 2026"). Although that timeline depends on the introduction of GAA transistor architecture (N2) and backside power delivery (N2P) both continuing to go smoothly, so I wouldn't bet the farm on either of them. They are both major steps forward, there could be delays.
    edited March 12 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 19
    boboliciousbobolicious Posts: 1,146member
    ... accelerating development can also accelerate support obsolescence ...
  • Reply 16 of 19
    Gurman doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. In order to maintain a yearly cadence Apple will have to have multiple design efforts at different stages of development running concurrently.

    In order to hit a product launch in mid 25 volume production of the chip would have had to begin months earlier. Allowing for several revisions to fix issues before you go to volume means you have to have taped out that initial rev sometime in 24. That means the design must be well advanced now.

    That makes sense as they must be at least in the test phase if not in production ramp up for the A18 in order to hit a product launch in sep/oct 24.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 19
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,259member
    I miss the good ole days when the AIM coalition would be delayed months on processor releases.  Computing life has become too predictable ....people no longer remember the Tech pestilence and famine that shaped users into the grizzled vets they would become. 
    At least computers were upgradable back then. You could jam some more ram and a better video card into the thing while you waited for new processors.  
    muthuk_vanalingam9secondkox2argonautwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 19
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,727member
    It makes sense. Apple is looking to get all products onto the refined 3nm process so that the chips are cheaper. Not to mention performance gains. 

    M3 was a bomb drop on the chip community. M4 is going to be a monster. I wonder if Mac Pro will skip m3 and go straight to 4? I wouldn’t bet on it. But I won’t be surprised either. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 19
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 842member
    "There are rumors of an M4 entering development, even though the M3 MacBook Air was released only days prior."

    Entering development? This is just silly. Manufacturers of tech products that are updated on an ongoing basis do not wait until after the release of the most current version before starting development on the next. The lag times between releases would be ridiculous. Do you think Apple made the momentous move to its own silicon under the guise of, "Well, let's just see how M1 does after we release it, and if it seems to go okay, then we'll start developing M2." My guess--although, admittedly, Tim doesn't share the Apple roadmap with me--is that Apple was in development on M4 when M1 was released. 
    watto_cobra
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