Another deluded American who thinks that only European socialist governments do spying on their citizens while overlooking the evidence of the enormous capacity of various US organisations to spy on US and US citizens.
You people love to insult Americans, but you also love to stick your hooks in our wallets. Pick a side already.
First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's. Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc.
Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone. How the heck does this not raise security concerns?
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.
The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process.
However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially.
You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'.
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
That isn't happening, is it?
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple.
My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.
Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads.
Not a single problem.
I hate to make it conspiratorial, but doesn’t it look like this Vestager lady is trying to desensitise the users to the possible installation of governmental spyware?
They have been proposing backdoors for a while now and will keep pushing it until they get closer to what they want:
They want to get around end-to-end encryption to allow scanning private communications like Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, encrypted email services. The easiest way for them to do this is to get code onto the device. A lot of EU governments have been using Pegasus for spying:
"several EU governments admitted to having bought Pegasus from the NSO Group, while EU citizens were targeted by their government, or by foreign governments or authorities."
"Most, if not all Member State governments have bought spyware, in principle for law enforcement and security purposes. However, there is ample evidence of abuse of spyware in several Member States for purely political purposes, targeting critics and opponents of the parties in power, or in connection to corruption. Investigative findings link Pegasus and other surveillance spyware to various human rights violations by governments, ranging from monitoring, blackmailing, smear campaigns, intimidation and harassment."
Same thing the Indian government has been doing. The last thing they want is a security warning telling the targets what's going on.
There will be official government app stores that will be required for digital ID, health ID and while they won't say they are tracking anything, just phoning home regularly with network info will be able to do location tracking on everyone using it.
Vestager sounds both arrogant and ignorant — not a good combination. She doesn’t like warnings? Why is that we have cookie warnings on websites? Is it to scare users, or is it to inform them? And how did this requirement come about exactly?
And she doesn’t like fees? How exactly did all of the APIs and developer tools get built, and how are they maintained? She doesn’t understand any of the technology that goes into the platform and the costs of building and maintaining it.
Does the EU have the power to dictate what a company charges for their products or services? What system does that sound like?
First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's. Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc.
Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone. How the heck does this not raise security concerns?
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.
The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process.
However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially.
You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'.
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
That isn't happening, is it?
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple.
My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.
Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads.
Not a single problem.
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
No shit. The EU has been retrograde in its actions on security, and national security is not even a high priority for the EU.
It's obvious that security wasn't the directive, nor was the consumer benefit, though I expect that a small percentage will be enthused; it is driven by creating more lucrative opportunities for developers, a profit shift from Apple, and other Big Tech's, to developers.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
So, why wouldn't there be the option of a single toggle, that allowed the user to "keep my iPhone as it is?".
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
Seems a little late for that, don't you think, and you might not find that it supports your POV. Meanwhile, iPhone continues to increase its user base, now about 1.46 billion.
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in.
That's really just complete bullshit, isn't it. There are countless opportunities for smartphone users to "switch sides", and I doubt that will be as difficult or intrusive, as the DMA.
Not a single problem.
That's hyperbole, at the least, and a complete lie at the most.
In other words, all apps have gone through a security check to ensure the safety of users’ data and devices. On the other hand, third-party sites rarely implement security checks. Third-party app stores not only provide developers with more freedom but also faster speed to market. The approval processes are less strict than the manufacturers, which means approvals are processed much faster. This leaves users’ devices exposed to countless threats. The problem is, some of these apps are exceptionally vulnerable to malware infiltration. For example, in 2016 1.3 million smartphones were attacked by malware. The malware was named “Gooligan,” and according to researchers, it was found in 86 apps. Of course, all of these apps came from third-party sources. Based on the data released by the Android security team this year, you’re about 10 times more likely to have a potentially harmful application on your device if you are using third-party sources.
Why do you lie?
There you go again! And you talk of hyperbole!
Yes, I know that stating the DSA/DMA are not security focused is stating the obvious, but it becomes necessary when Apple itself is deliberately throwing the security and privacy claims around regarding a directive that isn't even targeting those aspects.
The toggle idea is crazy. Sounds like a Bush speech: 'or you're with us or your against us'. Users should have choice and that choice should not be a single toggle.
It's never 'too late' to ask around and probably quite pertinent to do so.
Apple has used the term lock in internally. It took court action for those mails to float to the surface but it just made official what many people already knew. Now, some people prefer 'stickiness' LOL.
A lie?
I will repeat. Not a single problem. And as I said. If it were such a problem, people would be clamoring to get over the garden wall.
The liklihood of having problems isn't relevant here. That isn't what the DSA/DMA is tackling.
That doesn't mean the EU isn't aware of the potential problems.
First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's. Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc.
Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone. How the heck does this not raise security concerns?
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.
The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process.
However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially.
You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'.
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
That isn't happening, is it?
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple.
My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.
Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads.
Not a single problem.
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
No shit. The EU has been retrograde in its actions on security, and national security is not even a high priority for the EU.
It's obvious that security wasn't the directive, nor was the consumer benefit, though I expect that a small percentage will be enthused; it is driven by creating more lucrative opportunities for developers, a profit shift from Apple, and other Big Tech's, to developers.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
So, why wouldn't there be the option of a single toggle, that allowed the user to "keep my iPhone as it is?".
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
Seems a little late for that, don't you think, and you might not find that it supports your POV. Meanwhile, iPhone continues to increase its user base, now about 1.46 billion.
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in.
That's really just complete bullshit, isn't it. There are countless opportunities for smartphone users to "switch sides", and I doubt that will be as difficult or intrusive, as the DMA.
Not a single problem.
That's hyperbole, at the least, and a complete lie at the most.
In other words, all apps have gone through a security check to ensure the safety of users’ data and devices. On the other hand, third-party sites rarely implement security checks. Third-party app stores not only provide developers with more freedom but also faster speed to market. The approval processes are less strict than the manufacturers, which means approvals are processed much faster. This leaves users’ devices exposed to countless threats. The problem is, some of these apps are exceptionally vulnerable to malware infiltration. For example, in 2016 1.3 million smartphones were attacked by malware. The malware was named “Gooligan,” and according to researchers, it was found in 86 apps. Of course, all of these apps came from third-party sources. Based on the data released by the Android security team this year, you’re about 10 times more likely to have a potentially harmful application on your device if you are using third-party sources.
Why do you lie?
There you go again! And you talk of hyperbole!
Yes, I know that stating the DSA/DMA are not security focused is stating the obvious, but it becomes necessary when Apple itself is deliberately throwing the security and privacy claims around regarding a directive that isn't even targeting those aspects.
The toggle idea is crazy. Sounds like a Bush speech: 'or you're with us or your against us'. Users should have choice and that choice should not be a single toggle.
It's never 'too late' to ask around and probably quite pertinent to do so.
Apple has used the term lock in internally. It took court action for those mails to float to the surface but it just made official what many people already knew. Now, some people prefer 'stickiness' LOL.
A lie?
I will repeat. Not a single problem. And as I said. If it were such a problem, people would be clamoring to get over the garden wall.
The liklihood of having problems isn't relevant here. That isn't what the DSA/DMA is tackling.
That doesn't mean the EU isn't aware of the potential problems.
So, DMA is strictly a solution to developer complaints, maybe a very few consumer issues, but would reasonably be considered a greater security risk to the consumer.
Oh, and "Not a single problem", is an anecdote, not a reliable datapoint.
I've never had a single problem with the Apple App Store. That too is anecdotal.
First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's. Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc.
Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone. How the heck does this not raise security concerns?
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.
The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process.
However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially.
You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'.
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
That isn't happening, is it?
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple.
My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.
Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads.
Not a single problem.
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
No shit. The EU has been retrograde in its actions on security, and national security is not even a high priority for the EU.
It's obvious that security wasn't the directive, nor was the consumer benefit, though I expect that a small percentage will be enthused; it is driven by creating more lucrative opportunities for developers, a profit shift from Apple, and other Big Tech's, to developers.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
So, why wouldn't there be the option of a single toggle, that allowed the user to "keep my iPhone as it is?".
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
Seems a little late for that, don't you think, and you might not find that it supports your POV. Meanwhile, iPhone continues to increase its user base, now about 1.46 billion.
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in.
That's really just complete bullshit, isn't it. There are countless opportunities for smartphone users to "switch sides", and I doubt that will be as difficult or intrusive, as the DMA.
Not a single problem.
That's hyperbole, at the least, and a complete lie at the most.
In other words, all apps have gone through a security check to ensure the safety of users’ data and devices. On the other hand, third-party sites rarely implement security checks. Third-party app stores not only provide developers with more freedom but also faster speed to market. The approval processes are less strict than the manufacturers, which means approvals are processed much faster. This leaves users’ devices exposed to countless threats. The problem is, some of these apps are exceptionally vulnerable to malware infiltration. For example, in 2016 1.3 million smartphones were attacked by malware. The malware was named “Gooligan,” and according to researchers, it was found in 86 apps. Of course, all of these apps came from third-party sources. Based on the data released by the Android security team this year, you’re about 10 times more likely to have a potentially harmful application on your device if you are using third-party sources.
Why do you lie?
There you go again! And you talk of hyperbole!
Yes, I know that stating the DSA/DMA are not security focused is stating the obvious, but it becomes necessary when Apple itself is deliberately throwing the security and privacy claims around regarding a directive that isn't even targeting those aspects.
The toggle idea is crazy. Sounds like a Bush speech: 'or you're with us or your against us'. Users should have choice and that choice should not be a single toggle.
It's never 'too late' to ask around and probably quite pertinent to do so.
Apple has used the term lock in internally. It took court action for those mails to float to the surface but it just made official what many people already knew. Now, some people prefer 'stickiness' LOL.
A lie?
I will repeat. Not a single problem. And as I said. If it were such a problem, people would be clamoring to get over the garden wall.
The liklihood of having problems isn't relevant here. That isn't what the DSA/DMA is tackling.
That doesn't mean the EU isn't aware of the potential problems.
So, DMA is strictly a solution to developer complaints, maybe a very few consumer issues, but would reasonably be considered a greater security risk to the consumer.
Oh, and "Not a single problem", is an anecdote, not a reliable datapoint.
I've never had a single problem with the Apple App Store. That too is anecdotal.
Conversation comparing Apple's closed system versus Android third party apps stores.
Did I say the DMA was strictly a single solution for developer complaints? No.
I said its focus wasn't specifically security.
I never said my data point was anything but what it is. What is it? Proof that it's entirely possible to use third party app stores, direct downloads etc and not have a single issue.
I also said if it were such an issue on Android people would be clamoring to get onto Apple devices. They aren't.
I suggested asking around and seeing what experience Android users actually have. I can absolutely guarantee you that of all the people I know that use Android, none have had issues.
First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's. Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc.
Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone. How the heck does this not raise security concerns?
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.
The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process.
However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially.
You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'.
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
That isn't happening, is it?
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple.
My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.
Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads.
Not a single problem.
I hate to make it conspiratorial, but doesn’t it look like this Vestager lady is trying to desensitise the users to the possible installation of governmental spyware?
They have been proposing backdoors for a while now and will keep pushing it until they get closer to what they want:
They want to get around end-to-end encryption to allow scanning private communications like Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, encrypted email services. The easiest way for them to do this is to get code onto the device. A lot of EU governments have been using Pegasus for spying:
"several EU governments admitted to having bought Pegasus from the NSO Group, while EU citizens were targeted by their government, or by foreign governments or authorities."
"Most, if not all Member State governments have bought spyware, in principle for law enforcement and security purposes. However, there is ample evidence of abuse of spyware in several Member States for purely political purposes, targeting critics and opponents of the parties in power, or in connection to corruption. Investigative findings link Pegasus and other surveillance spyware to various human rights violations by governments, ranging from monitoring, blackmailing, smear campaigns, intimidation and harassment."
Same thing the Indian government has been doing. The last thing they want is a security warning telling the targets what's going on.
There will be official government app stores that will be required for digital ID, health ID and while they won't say they are tracking anything, just phoning home regularly with network info will be able to do location tracking on everyone using it.
In their defense, though, digital IDs etc aren’t a requirement.
First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's. Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc.
Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone. How the heck does this not raise security concerns?
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.
The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process.
However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially.
You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'.
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
That isn't happening, is it?
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple.
My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.
Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads.
Not a single problem.
The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
No shit. The EU has been retrograde in its actions on security, and national security is not even a high priority for the EU.
It's obvious that security wasn't the directive, nor was the consumer benefit, though I expect that a small percentage will be enthused; it is driven by creating more lucrative opportunities for developers, a profit shift from Apple, and other Big Tech's, to developers.
An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them.
So, why wouldn't there be the option of a single toggle, that allowed the user to "keep my iPhone as it is?".
FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall.
Seems a little late for that, don't you think, and you might not find that it supports your POV. Meanwhile, iPhone continues to increase its user base, now about 1.46 billion.
The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in.
That's really just complete bullshit, isn't it. There are countless opportunities for smartphone users to "switch sides", and I doubt that will be as difficult or intrusive, as the DMA.
Not a single problem.
That's hyperbole, at the least, and a complete lie at the most.
In other words, all apps have gone through a security check to ensure the safety of users’ data and devices. On the other hand, third-party sites rarely implement security checks. Third-party app stores not only provide developers with more freedom but also faster speed to market. The approval processes are less strict than the manufacturers, which means approvals are processed much faster. This leaves users’ devices exposed to countless threats. The problem is, some of these apps are exceptionally vulnerable to malware infiltration. For example, in 2016 1.3 million smartphones were attacked by malware. The malware was named “Gooligan,” and according to researchers, it was found in 86 apps. Of course, all of these apps came from third-party sources. Based on the data released by the Android security team this year, you’re about 10 times more likely to have a potentially harmful application on your device if you are using third-party sources.
Comments
https://www.techradar.com/news/spain-seeks-to-ban-encryption-leaked-document-reveals
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/05/eu-commissions-new-proposal-would-undermine-encryption-and-scan-our-messages
They want to get around end-to-end encryption to allow scanning private communications like Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage, encrypted email services. The easiest way for them to do this is to get code onto the device. A lot of EU governments have been using Pegasus for spying:
https://cybernews.com/news/nso-group-sold-spyware-to-14-eu-governments/
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2022/732268/IPOL_IDA(2022)732268_EN.pdf
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2014_2019/plmrep/COMMITTEES/PEGA/DV/2023/05-08/REPORTcompromises_EN.pdf
"several EU governments admitted to having bought Pegasus from the NSO Group, while EU citizens were targeted by their government, or by foreign governments or authorities."
"Most, if not all Member State governments have bought spyware, in principle for law enforcement and security purposes. However, there is ample evidence of abuse of spyware in several Member States for purely political purposes, targeting critics and opponents of the parties in power, or in connection to corruption. Investigative findings link Pegasus and other surveillance spyware to various human rights violations by governments, ranging from monitoring, blackmailing, smear campaigns, intimidation and harassment."
Same thing the Indian government has been doing. The last thing they want is a security warning telling the targets what's going on.
There will be official government app stores that will be required for digital ID, health ID and while they won't say they are tracking anything, just phoning home regularly with network info will be able to do location tracking on everyone using it.
And she doesn’t like fees? How exactly did all of the APIs and developer tools get built, and how are they maintained? She doesn’t understand any of the technology that goes into the platform and the costs of building and maintaining it.
Does the EU have the power to dictate what a company charges for their products or services? What system does that sound like?
Yes, I know that stating the DSA/DMA are not security focused is stating the obvious, but it becomes necessary when Apple itself is deliberately throwing the security and privacy claims around regarding a directive that isn't even targeting those aspects.
The toggle idea is crazy. Sounds like a Bush speech: 'or you're with us or your against us'. Users should have choice and that choice should not be a single toggle.
It's never 'too late' to ask around and probably quite pertinent to do so.
Apple has used the term lock in internally. It took court action for those mails to float to the surface but it just made official what many people already knew. Now, some people prefer 'stickiness' LOL.
A lie?
I will repeat. Not a single problem. And as I said. If it were such a problem, people would be clamoring to get over the garden wall.
The liklihood of having problems isn't relevant here. That isn't what the DSA/DMA is tackling.
That doesn't mean the EU isn't aware of the potential problems.
Oh, and "Not a single problem", is an anecdote, not a reliable datapoint.
I've never had a single problem with the Apple App Store. That too is anecdotal.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26963924
Conversation comparing Apple's closed system versus Android third party apps stores.
I said its focus wasn't specifically security.
I never said my data point was anything but what it is. What is it? Proof that it's entirely possible to use third party app stores, direct downloads etc and not have a single issue.
I also said if it were such an issue on Android people would be clamoring to get onto Apple devices. They aren't.
I suggested asking around and seeing what experience Android users actually have. I can absolutely guarantee you that of all the people I know that use Android, none have had issues.