Epic and allies are complaining about Apple's US App Store fees, while they charge about t...

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Epic has been joined by Meta, Microsoft, X, and Match to protest how Apple is handling App Store fees and the California anti-steering order, even as Microsoft bills Xbox developers heavily, and Epic attempts to charge a 12% commission in the EU.

Epic's advertisement for its lawsuit against Apple portraying Apple as the evil entity in '1984'
Epic vs Apple continues



Apple and Epic went through a long saga of legal battles over Apple's commission. The result was a resounding victory for Apple in all but one charge, which would require Apple to end its anti-steering policy.

After many failed appeals, Apple was finally forced to comply with the ruling, but how Apple complied hasn't made developers happy. A new report from The Wall Street Journal says four more companies have joined Epic's protests -- Meta, Microsoft, X, and Match Group.

An amicus brief filed by the companies complains about Apple's new policies, which allow only one external link and no attempt to push customers to choose one option over the other. If a customer is successfully driven to the external purchase location, Apple still demands a 27% or 12% commission on all digital products sold.

"The Apple Plan comports with neither the letter nor the spirit of this Court's mandate," the amicus brief reads. It claims Apple is making it impossible for developers to choose the new system over in-app purchases.

The claims made by each company suggest Apple's policies will impact thousands of developers and millions of users. Despite these complaints, Apple says it has fully complied with the court order and implemented a system allowing developers to inform customers.

Epic's mockup of the Epic Games Store on an iPhone
Epic will charge developers 12% in the EU

Epic, Microsoft, and Meta's hypocritical stance



Microsoft has its own walled garden with the Xbox console and game store. It charges fees very similarly to Apple's on the App Store. Meta charges similar fees for its Quest platform as well.

And, Epic also has fees. After the Epic event livestream, it explained what was announced in a newsroom post, closing with the following remark:

Finally, we shared more about our plans to bring the Epic Games Store to iOS and Android later this year, expanding developer access to our industry-leading revenue share and launching a true multi-platform store featuring amazing games for players.



Epic's "industry-leading revenue share" is 12% after six months commission-free. That 12% is the same as the reduced Apple take Epic is contesting in the United States.

Every action from Epic shows it would prefer if courts would rule Epic Games should able to do what it wants and owe nothing. It is up to legislators to keep Apple from being unfair, but they should also keep companies like Epic in check.



Read on AppleInsider

watto_cobra

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    I don't understand why you'd try to pretend it's even remotely the same.

    Epic does not control access to any platform.  Any developer can put up a website and sell a game directly to the public, giving Epic nothing at all.

    The same does not apply to Apple.  A developer putting up a website can sell a game to Windoze users, Mac users, Linux users, and Android users.  But they cannot sell to iPhone or iPad users without Apple's permission and losing 15% or 30% of their revenue to Apple.

    I'd be perfectly happy if the "app store" concept died completely.  But if a developer chose to put something in Apple's app store, or Epic's game store, that should be on them, not on Apple.

    I'd much prefer to download software to my iPhone directly from the developer's web site, not having Apple playing gatekeeper, morality police, and robber baron.  I'd prefer to be able to back up that game to my storage, so that if it's ever taken down I can still reinstall it on another iPhone, not having to rely on Apple to keep it online.
    edited March 20 ctt_zhwilliamlondonavon b7
  • Reply 2 of 13
    Apple provides all of the tools for developers to design and build games on their platform. Whether they charge a fee to the developers at the time of building and designing their app or at the time of install and use, or renewal and in-app purchases - I could care less. Apple deserves to make money off of the platform they have created and the tools they have created... it seems like people are arguing more about whether Apple's cut is the correct amount... which is more of an anti-trust discussion... which the judge rejected.

    lolliverihatescreennameswilliamlondonbaconstangiOS_Guy80Bart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 13
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,455member
    Victor, it is indeed "remotely the same" insofar as the article states correctly: And, Epic also has fees. 

    Apple is a platform creator.
    Epic is a developer who made a choice to develop on Apple's platform.

    Sure that's a difference, but they both make money via fees.

    If you are Epic, you will want the "app store concept to die completely."  But if you are a platform creator like Apple, you obviously want to keep your profit earning store alive.  

    People who like Apple's "morality police" tend to stick with Apple's iOS devices, and those who don't like those so-called police, can enjoy the wild west of Android.  Why in the world would you, in the name of liberty, want to take away the liberty of people to choose Apple's walled garden?  That's right.  You re seeking to take away the very thing that keeps people on iOS, only because you seem to prefer iOS on some level, yet you wish to remove a particular aspect which you dislike -- a thing which other people don't necessarily dislike.

    With that said, I do disagree somewhat with the closing sentence of the article which states:

    "It is up to legislators to keep Apple from being unfair, but they should also keep companies like Epic in check."

    Legislators and the Courts do as much harm as good.  The more "free" a "free market" system is, with less intervention by Legislators and the Courts, the better.
    stompymike1lolliverForumPostradarthekatMacProBart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 13
    Why does Apple need a reason to boot Epic off the Apple App Store?  Can't Apple just decide I don't like them anymore or  I don't want them on our Apple App Store?  After all, Apple created it and they maintain it and they should be be able to choose who's on it.  Right?

    Pretty basic question.

    williamlondonMacProBart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 13
    I don't understand why you'd try to pretend it's even remotely the same.

    Epic does not control access to any platform.  Any developer can put up a website and sell a game directly to the public, giving Epic nothing at all.

    The same does not apply to Apple.  A developer putting up a website can sell a game to Windoze users, Mac users, Linux users, and Android users.  But they cannot sell to iPhone or iPad users without Apple's permission and losing 15% or 30% of their revenue to Apple.

    I'd be perfectly happy if the "app store" concept died completely.  But if a developer chose to put something in Apple's app store, or Epic's game store, that should be on them, not on Apple.

    I'd much prefer to download software to my iPhone directly from the developer's web site, not having Apple playing gatekeeper, morality police, and robber baron.  I'd prefer to be able to back up that game to my storage, so that if it's ever taken down I can still reinstall it on another iPhone, not having to rely on Apple to keep it online.
    You’re obviously not an Apple fan. Suggest you swap to Android. That way you can expose your private life to whoever you choose. 
    williamlondonBart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 13
    iadlibiadlib Posts: 117member
    THIS IS HILARIOUS!!! 

    1. There's no crying in baseball!
    2. Are we seriously watching different megacorporations worth billions argue about this false concept of "fairness in capitalism"?
    3. The real discussion should be WHY the free iCloud tier is a measly 5 jigglebits now that's pure corporate greed.


    williamlondon
  • Reply 7 of 13
    Afarstar said:
    I don't understand why you'd try to pretend it's even remotely the same.

    Epic does not control access to any platform.  Any developer can put up a website and sell a game directly to the public, giving Epic nothing at all.

    The same does not apply to Apple.  A developer putting up a website can sell a game to Windoze users, Mac users, Linux users, and Android users.  But they cannot sell to iPhone or iPad users without Apple's permission and losing 15% or 30% of their revenue to Apple.

    I'd be perfectly happy if the "app store" concept died completely.  But if a developer chose to put something in Apple's app store, or Epic's game store, that should be on them, not on Apple.

    I'd much prefer to download software to my iPhone directly from the developer's web site, not having Apple playing gatekeeper, morality police, and robber baron.  I'd prefer to be able to back up that game to my storage, so that if it's ever taken down I can still reinstall it on another iPhone, not having to rely on Apple to keep it online.
    You’re obviously not an Apple fan. Suggest you swap to Android. That way you can expose your private life to whoever you choose. 
    But he prefers trolling in this forum for some reason, like this is MacRumors. Probably just took a wrong turn somewhere.
    MacProBart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 13
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,420member
    shywizard said:
    Why does Apple need a reason to boot Epic off the Apple App Store?  Can't Apple just decide I don't like them anymore or  I don't want them on our Apple App Store?  After all, Apple created it and they maintain it and they should be be able to choose who's on it.  Right?

    Pretty basic question.

    Tim Cook is just a hired hand if he were a (owner/founder like Elon, Zuck, or Jeff Bezos he would have the power to kick Epic out for good..... Steve Jobs had that power even though at the time he no longer an owner of Apple anymore when said no to Adobe and Flash.
    edited March 20 watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 13
    glennhglennh Posts: 74member
    pssst…. Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 (U.S. Constitution)

    [The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

    IE.. As a long time Apple shareholder, I say it’s about time that Apple’s Board get aggressive and orders the company to start charging all for profit outfits for any and every use of Apple’s IP, especially the billion dollars whining FREELOADERS like Spotify and Epic! 

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 13
    People need to abandon the idea that a certain percentage commission is "fair" and another "unfair". The courts aren't going to rule on that aspect. All of these companies made the same complaints to the EU and the resulting DMA doesn't try to regulate commission percentages at all. 
    Bart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 13
    People need to abandon the idea that a certain percentage commission is "fair" and another "unfair". The courts aren't going to rule on that aspect. All of these companies made the same complaints to the EU and the resulting DMA doesn't try to regulate commission percentages at all. 
    I don’t know. After the landmark case regarding real estate commissions, everyone’s lunch is about to get threatened. 

    It will be interesting to see if a smart person uses these eu laws and possibly new us laws to sue companies like Microsoft’s Xbox online stores, Sony and Nintendo’s stores, particularly Nintendo since they want to decide what games get to be cartridge and what games are online. Let’s say I want to download Fortnite onto my Xbox (I don’t), but I want to do it directly from Epic and not from the Xbox store, I can’t. Why not? What if I want to protect my purchases of THIRD PARTY games that I’m downloading from Microsoft? I can’t, tough shit to me. Well, let’s see if these “friends” of Epic will like the taste of Apple’s medicine because they’ll end up swallowing it soon as well. 
    Bart Ywatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 13
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 13,103member
    I don't understand why you'd try to pretend it's even remotely the same.

    Epic does not control access to any platform.  Any developer can put up a website and sell a game directly to the public, giving Epic nothing at all.

    The same does not apply to Apple.  A developer putting up a website can sell a game to Windoze users, Mac users, Linux users, and Android users.  But they cannot sell to iPhone or iPad users without Apple's permission and losing 15% or 30% of their revenue to Apple.

    I'd be perfectly happy if the "app store" concept died completely.  But if a developer chose to put something in Apple's app store, or Epic's game store, that should be on them, not on Apple.

    I'd much prefer to download software to my iPhone directly from the developer's web site, not having Apple playing gatekeeper, morality police, and robber baron.  I'd prefer to be able to back up that game to my storage, so that if it's ever taken down I can still reinstall it on another iPhone, not having to rely on Apple to keep it online.
    Nuts. Epic controls its own Fornite engine. Devs are not free to charge via their own payment systems for skins or dance moves or whatever, they have to pay Epic.

    Same with Xbox. Nintendo. Playstation. Take your pic.

    You may not like app stores and wish for the wild west web, but others like myself very much do. My parents had tons of problems with PCs and even their Mac, with scams and the like. On iOS my tech support has dropped to…0. It’s a feature, not a bug.

    Don’t like that feature? Rock the neckbeard and fire up Linux or a knockoff android brand, what’s stoppin ya?  
    Bart Ywilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 13
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,116member
    I don't understand why you'd try to pretend it's even remotely the same.

    Epic does not control access to any platform.  Any developer can put up a website and sell a game directly to the public, giving Epic nothing at all.

    The same does not apply to Apple.  A developer putting up a website can sell a game to Windoze users, Mac users, Linux users, and Android users.  But they cannot sell to iPhone or iPad users without Apple's permission and losing 15% or 30% of their revenue to Apple.

    I'd be perfectly happy if the "app store" concept died completely.  But if a developer chose to put something in Apple's app store, or Epic's game store, that should be on them, not on Apple.

    I'd much prefer to download software to my iPhone directly from the developer's web site, not having Apple playing gatekeeper, morality police, and robber baron.  I'd prefer to be able to back up that game to my storage, so that if it's ever taken down I can still reinstall it on another iPhone, not having to rely on Apple to keep it online.

    Actually, Epic has full access control of the games on their platform. Now their "platform" would not qualify as a "platform" in the DMA, but it's considered a "platform" none the less. The most popular (and market leader) of similar platforms would be Steam, operated by Valve. And Epic Games main competition.

    I'm not a gamer and the last games I played on a computer were on disc purchased from CompUSA. :)  But downloaded apps of games are completely different in the way they work. Now of days, when you download an app of a game from a developer, you will most likely have to create an account with the developer and be logged to the account in order to play the game. This would be similar to having to have the game disc in the computer drive in order to play the game, even though the game is installed in the computer. This prevent pirating of the developers games.

    Now serious gamers do not want to open 20 different account to play 20 games, from 20 different developers. So along come "platforms" like Steam. With the games purchased from the Steam Store, they all can be played when logged on to the Steam account used to purchased the games. And because the games are in your Steam account, you can play your games from any computer with internet access (or mobile device) by logging into your account. The limit is that you can only play one game at time. (Unless you have a family share plan and all the computers are in your household.)  This allows one to start playing a game at home, save the game play and then continue where you left on at work or on a mobile device on the commute home.  Pretty niffty and I can see why serious gamers rather purchase games from the Steam Store.

    Well, Epic Games operates a "platform" similar to Steam. Any games purchased from the Epic Store can be launched from the Epic account used to purchase the game, no matter who the developers are. Of course the developer has to pay Epic a 12% commission. But developers in the Steam Store has to pay a 30% commission to be on Steam platform. Now days, if a developer want to sell the their game apps on their own website, they would be burden with the cost of hosting their own website, the extra cost of bandwidth needed for customers to download their apps, the cost of processing payment, customer support, updates, maintaining the security of customers data, advertising, piracy prevention, etc.. Nearly all taken care of by selling the game on a gaming distribution "platform" like Steam or Epic Games Store and paying the commission.

    True that a game developer can sell their apps on their own website and give Epic (or Steam) nothing, but they get none of the benefits of being in Epic (or Steam) platform. Benefits that most serious gamers wants. The same gaming customers that spends the most on games. 






    edited March 25 muthuk_vanalingam
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