Arizona TSMC facility continues to fight cultural battles, rising costs & logistical hurdl...

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  • Reply 21 of 31
    ralphieralphie Posts: 112member

    A few years ago I saw the documentary ‘American Factory’ about a Chinese organization trying to start a car glass factory in America. Without judgement the filmmakers showed the huge culture clash that happened. Beautiful movie, and the unavoidable  bafflement from both sides carefully shown. Can’t help thinking this is the same dynamics. 
    I saw something similar, the movie Gung Ho.
    h2p
  • Reply 22 of 31
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,871member
    blastdoor said:
    I’d love to see intel regain the process lead and win apples foundry business. 
    I don't see why Apple would wanna do that. They already seem to have a good relationship with TSMC. I really don't see the benefit in switching to Intel for the fabrication of its silicon. 
    edited April 26
  • Reply 23 of 31
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,871member
    To me this article explains exactly why Apple uses everything in Asian countries for its product fabrication and assembly. People here just don't have the same work ethic as they do and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I don't always buy the well Apple is just being cheap and using cheap labor. It also has a lot to do with TSMC or Foxconn can get all the workers they need and people will work when they need to in order to get the job done. The cultures are just so different and the culture here in the US just doesn't fit for mass electronic production and assembly. No amount of money is going to change that either. We'd need to have a major culture shift in order to succeed in this area. 
    edited April 26
  • Reply 24 of 31
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,540member
    I don’t buy into the Lazy American argument. I do believe we’ve become complacent, rudderless, and lacking motivation do much of anything that has no immediate benefit for ourselves. That’s not being lazy, it’s being selfish. 

    As I mentioned earlier, culture is established by leaders and we are seriously lacking leadership at the civic leader level. Independent of your political affiliation, any leader that demonizes and dehumanizes a sector of their fellow citizens for personal or selfish reasons doesn’t deserve to be the leader of a country that used to pride itself on the amazing things that it could accomplish when we, or most of us, pulled together. 

    It’s easy to jump on the bandwagon of blaming other countries like China, Russia, Iran, etc., for destabilizing the world order when we don’t even have our own house in order. If America is trying to be a leader of a freer, more peaceful, more highly motivated, more productive, more equitable, and more democratic society we are failing rather badly. We’re not establishing a culture that many other countries would want to emulate. 
    tht
  • Reply 25 of 31
    rob53 said:
    It doesn’t surprise me there’s a culture clash in Arizona, especially in today’s rancid political environment. A decade ago we would have welcomed TSMC like we have welcomed Japanese automakers. Not any more and it’s not TSMC’s fault. 
    So there is a reported culture clash and you immediately blame the Arizonans?
    ronn
  • Reply 26 of 31
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,429member
    macxpress said:
    blastdoor said:
    I’d love to see intel regain the process lead and win apples foundry business. 
    I don't see why Apple would wanna do that. They already seem to have a good relationship with TSMC. I really don't see the benefit in switching to Intel for the fabrication of its silicon. 
    Apple wants to work with the company that has the process lead, because the manufacturing process is the single most important thing affecting  performance/watt. When Intel had the lead, Apple dumped ppc to buy Intel chips. When Intel lost the lead, Apple dumped Intel. If Intel regains the lead, Apple will want Intel again — but this time, not x86 chips but rather apples chips fabbed by Intel as a foundry partner.
  • Reply 27 of 31
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,429member
    macxpress said:
    To me this article explains exactly why Apple uses everything in Asian countries for its product fabrication and assembly. People here just don't have the same work ethic as they do and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I don't always buy the well Apple is just being cheap and using cheap labor. It also has a lot to do with TSMC or Foxconn can get all the workers they need and people will work when they need to in order to get the job done. The cultures are just so different and the culture here in the US just doesn't fit for mass electronic production and assembly. No amount of money is going to change that either. We'd need to have a major culture shift in order to succeed in this area. 
    Manufacturing can be done in different ways. It can be capital intensive or labor intensive. When labor is relatively cheap, labor intensive methods are used. When labor is expensive, capital intensive methods are used. 

    Asia has been a place with relatively inexpensive labor, and so labor intensive methods have been used in manufacturing there. Asian countries have also adopted industrial policies to encourage manufacturing, much as the US did in the 19th century and, to some extent, is doing so again now. 

    This is how it has been in recent history but it need not and most likely will not always be that way. As Asian populations shrink, they will become more capital intensive, and labor intensive methods will move elsewhere, possibly Africa. And eventually, capital intensive methods will take over everywhere, as human populations shrink around the world. 

    I suspect that the world population will settle down to something much smaller than what we have today. I’m not sure if it will even still be over a billion. 

    At that point, humans will be running the show but machines will be doing all the unpleasant work.
  • Reply 28 of 31
    Reminds me of the Michael Keaton movie “Gung Ho”,
  • Reply 29 of 31
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,871member
    blastdoor said:
    macxpress said:
    blastdoor said:
    I’d love to see intel regain the process lead and win apples foundry business. 
    I don't see why Apple would wanna do that. They already seem to have a good relationship with TSMC. I really don't see the benefit in switching to Intel for the fabrication of its silicon. 
    Apple wants to work with the company that has the process lead, because the manufacturing process is the single most important thing affecting  performance/watt. When Intel had the lead, Apple dumped ppc to buy Intel chips. When Intel lost the lead, Apple dumped Intel. If Intel regains the lead, Apple will want Intel again — but this time, not x86 chips but rather apples chips fabbed by Intel as a foundry partner.
    I doubt they will ever want to do anything with Intel. They would also risk leaking their technology to Intel as well. They don't have to worry about this with TSMC. Apple is done with Intel. 
  • Reply 30 of 31
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,105member
    blastdoor said:
    rob53 said:
    blastdoor said:
    I’d love to see intel regain the process lead and win apples foundry business. 
    Why? Intel was always slow to improve their products. They always run hot as well. 
    Tell that to Steve Jobs circa 2005. 

    Intel had a couple of CEOs make very bad decisions in the decade or so after Apple switched to Intel. But before then, Intel was the world leader in logic chip manufacturing. 

    Maybe you’re the kind of person who wants America to fail, but I want to see a once great American company rise again.

    American companies Intel, Motorola (Illinois defunct wonder why?), IBM, Kodak, and Xerox excavated their own graves particularly Motorola, IBM and Intel when it came to Apple (Steve Jobs) asking them design faster more mobile chips in the early-mid 2000's.
    edited April 29
  • Reply 31 of 31
    This article delves into the differences in work culture between Taiwan and the USA. The difficulties TSMC is experiencing in setting up factories in Arizona were predictable. TSMC will eventually adapt their operation to the prevailing culture. 
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