Apple said to be stealing tech from expensive suppliers to give to cheaper ones

Posted:
in General Discussion

A new report claims that a supplier may develop new technology or new processes, only for Apple to -- perfectly legally -- take that work to a cheaper company, sometimes leaving the original one to go bankrupt.

A Foxconn facility
Apple has suppliers all over the world



There have already been examples in 2024 of how being an Apple supplier may not be a great idea. While no parties involved will directly confirm it, it appears that Apple abruptly cancelled two micro LED suppliers -- one of whom had spent $1.4 billion building a factory for it.

Reportedly, those firms have no recourse with Apple, and presumably it's because the cancellations were allowed within the contracts. According to The Information, Apple's typical contracts also give it complete control and at least co-ownership, over every step of the supplier's manufacturing process.

That means a firm can invest in developing a production technique, and Apple is entirely within its rights to take that process to another firm. The accusation is both that Apple does this, and that it does so by giving information from US companies to suppliers in China.

For instance, in 2014, GT Advanced Technologies was working with Apple on creating a scratch-resistant screen material. As reported in AppleInsider the supplier went under owing almost half a billion dollars -- all of which it attributed to Apple's increasing demands and refusal to renegotiate.

It's claimed now that once the firm had declared bankruptcy, Apple took its the material recipe GT Advanced Technologies developed, and gave it to suppliers including Hong Kong-based Biel Crystal. According to unspecified former employees, Apple also gave the details to a firm called Lens, and has subsequently played each company off against the other to get better prices.

Apple is accused of having spent years helping Chinese display maker BOE match the quality of displays being made by Samsung. South Korea's Samsung filed a lawsuit against BOE in November 2023 -- though that may solely have been a retaliatory response to BOE accusing it of stealing patents.

The allegations against Apple do not make it clear how common a practice of using costly suppliers to create technology for cheaper and Chinese ones. However, it is also claimed that China's SeeYa Technologies has benefited from it as Apple reportedly passed it details of how Sony is making the Apple Vision Pro.

In that case, Sony had reportedly refused to increase its production capacity for the Apple Vision Pro, so it's not a surprise that Apple would look for an alternative.

It's also clear that whatever information Apple does or doesn't pass on to alternative suppliers, it is entirely within its contractual rights to do so. That's true whether its engineers verbally teach new suppliers, or even if they provided documentation about processes.

Perhaps showing that firms are becoming wise to Apple, BOE reportedly dragged its feet over committing investment funds into a new facility. BOE has also now entered into a deal to help India's Samvardhana Motherson make iPhone cover glass -- and can buy up to 49% of shares in that firm.

This is despite BOE having reportedly had a rocky relationship with Apple over unauthorized changes in its iPhone screen manufacturing.

Apple has not commented.



Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    Anilu_777Anilu_777 Posts: 578member
    That’s no bueno. What about patents? Surely that tech is covered by patents so other companies must license it?
    Alex1NwilliamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 2 of 27
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 4,038member
    It may be legal but certainly not ethical. Corporations complain all the time about China forcing release of intellectual property as a requirement of doing business with the Chinese businesses then taking the IP. This is no different. 
    gatorguymuthuk_vanalingamgrandact73Alex1NwilliamlondonVictorMortimerFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 3 of 27
    teejay2012teejay2012 Posts: 406member
    Contracts for products or devices that require manufacturing upgrades contain milestones. If they are not reached, products or devices that Apple needs for launch may be delayed with major financial hits. Apple does not need to be painted as unethical here. There is brutal competition in the tech industry.
    ronnwatto_cobraAlex1Nradarthekatwilliamlondon
  • Reply 4 of 27
    mikethemartianmikethemartian Posts: 1,500member
    I can somewhat understand smaller companies getting suckered but I would expect Samsung and Sony to be smarter than that.
    watto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 5 of 27
    omasouomasou Posts: 640member
    So let's see. Apple partners with a company to develop X that company cannot deliver and wants to renegotiate terms that benefit them with no promise that the change in terms will allow them to succeed. Yet, somehow when Apple takes their IP, yes their IP, they paid the pervious vendor, that second vendor is able to succeed?

    If you don't like the terms or don't think you can deliver then don't sign. It's their greed to cash in on the Apple supplier train that made them think they could when they knew they couldn't.
    ronnwatto_cobraradarthekatwilliamlondon
  • Reply 6 of 27
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,747member
    There’s no crying in baseball, or in business. 
    mikethemartianbaconstangwatto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 7 of 27
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,253member
    This article's headline is deceitful. They aren't "stealing" [sic] if they own it. This is just a shameful clickbait title.

    While no one here has read any contracts between Apple and its suppliers, it is blatantly obviously that Apple is at least part owner of the intellectual property produced in these partnerships which is why they aren't getting sued. This is not unique to Apple and its suppliers, these sort of contracts are written all the time by various parties.

    Clearly these contracts include language that allows this to happen and both parties signed on the dotted line. Most likely Apple fronted much of the development costs because they are loaded with cash. This is the similar to Apple hogging up most of TSMC's capacity on their latest-and-greatest node technology because Apple prepays. Cash is king. Always has been, always will be.

    If these suppliers don't like Apple's terms, they shouldn't sign the contract. They could try to rewrite the contract(s) to be more favorable to them but Apple holds the purse strings.

    It is also obvious that the lawyers for these suppliers educated their CEOs on what could happen. That's why these companies silently watch Apple waltz away with the IP because Apple holds the pink slip.
    edited May 3 aderutterthtanonymouseronncoolfactorwatto_cobraAlex1NradarthekatDAalsethwilliamlondon
  • Reply 8 of 27
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,021member
    I can't help but think that important pieces of information are missing from the story but if a contract is signed that specifically allows for these practices to happen, perhaps the root problem is right there waiting to be exploited. 
    anonymouseAlex1NradarthekatFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 9 of 27
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,647member
    Cutthroat tactics such as this are the reason I cut ties to once-lucrative contracts with both Bombardier and Walmart. It got to the point where it became clear only one of us was going to be permitted a nice return on investment, and that party was not me. So in essence, I fired them.

    There are no longer "relationships" in business as there once were, and negotiations with accounts have been handled accordingly for over a decade now. 
    edited May 3 lam92103muthuk_vanalingamAlex1NnubusVictorMortimerFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 10 of 27
    FaragoFarago Posts: 7member
    It makes Walmart seem completely benign.
    lam92103williamlondon
  • Reply 11 of 27
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 146member
    Apple is big enough that they can get away this. Also none of this is out of the ordinary. It is very common in a lot of industries and majority of large companies will abuse smaller suppliers like this. 

    The only people, as far as I know, who donot do this is Japanese companies. They will stick with their suppliers and due to this, it is almost impossible for an outsider to be able to copy what the Japanese put out. 

    Even Microsoft had a hard time in Japan, getting suppliers to work with them. Which is the whole story behind the Duke Xbox controller


    Probably also the reason why Android phones have had much better camera hardware than iPhones since some time now. They are already using 50MP sensors, while Apple is stuck at 12MP. Same probably goes for screen coatings etc.


    edited May 3 williamlondon
  • Reply 12 of 27
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,253member
    avon b7 said:
    I can't help but think that important pieces of information are missing from the story but if a contract is signed that specifically allows for these practices to happen, perhaps the root problem is right there waiting to be exploited. 
    Well, yes.

    The most important pieces of information are the contract details themselves which no one here will ever find out.

    The root problem is that some of these suppliers can't live up to Apple's expectations and their agreement allows Apple to take the IP elsewhere. If you don't like Apple's terms, don't sign contracts with Apple. Plain and simple just as Gatorguy's situation with Bombardier and Walmart.
    gatorguy said:
    Cutthroat tactics such as this are the same reason I cut ties to once-lucrative contracts with both Bombardier and Walmart. It got to the point where it became clear only one of us was going to be permitted a nice return on investment, and that party was not me. In essence, I fired them.

    There are no longer "relationships" in business as there once were, and negotiations with accounts have been handled accordingly for over a decade now. 
    And Bombardier and Walmart probably found someone else to work with. They're not imminently filing for bankruptcy as far as I can tell.

    This is the way business is conducted in the 2020s. And not just the tech industry. If you want to seal a deal with a handshake, find someone who will extend their hand. Just don't ask Apple. Whether it's Tim Cook, Satya Nadella, Warren Buffett, Jamie Dimon, Mary Barra, Larry Ellison, they will all push a contract across the table.

    I agree that at the end of the day, you want to be able to smile about your business and its partnerships because it's pretty hard to run a business in 2024 all by yourself with no help.
    edited May 3 thtradarthekatwilliamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 13 of 27
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 146member
    avon b7 said:
    I can't help but think that important pieces of information are missing from the story but if a contract is signed that specifically allows for these practices to happen, perhaps the root problem is right there waiting to be exploited. 

    Small companies get enamored by being suppliers to large volume buyers, like Apple and so end up signing these one sided contracts. Specially in poor Asian countries, where being such a supplier means a change in fortune
    edited May 3 watto_cobrawilliamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 14 of 27
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 146member
    I can somewhat understand smaller companies getting suckered but I would expect Samsung and Sony to be smarter than that.

    I assume that is why Samsung phones have a 50MP camera sensor since a while now, but Apple has nothing even close to that
    williamlondon
  • Reply 15 of 27
    lam92103 said:
    I can somewhat understand smaller companies getting suckered but I would expect Samsung and Sony to be smarter than that.

    I assume that is why Samsung phones have a 50MP camera sensor since a while now, but Apple has nothing even close to that
    Apple's iPhone Pro Max has 48MP camera sensor for last 2 generations. And MP count does not mean much when it comes to smartphone photography anyway. Pixel size, ISP, software processing logic ALL play a significant role in the quality of photos taken by smartphones.

    edited May 3 ronnAlex1NradarthekattmayFidonet127FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 16 of 27
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,163member
    mpantone said:
    This article's headline is deceitful. They aren't "stealing" [sic] if they own it. This is just a shameful clickbait title.
    +1 for this. I had the exact same reaction and--to the extent that Apple is paying attention to the tech press--I wouldn't be surprised if you heard from Apple's legal team about this. Sorry, but Apple isn't STEALING anything. What Apple is doing is "perfectly legal" because it is within the terms of the contract that was also signed by the supplier. Here's a thought: if you think the terms of a contract are too onerous--like, for example, assigning ownership of all processes developed to Apple--don't sign the contract! OR... maybe don't build a $1.4 billion dollar factory to produce something for Apple before you have a legally binding commitment from Apple to move forward with that technology. Suppliers in all kinds of businesses who deal with huge customers know that they are always subject to being ousted by a competitor with lower prices if the contracts they signed allow for that. 

    And listen: none of this is to suggest that Apple plays nice with its suppliers. I'm sure they don't. Apple is always the 800 pound gorilla in the room, they know it, and they're undoubtedly going to push for or insist on egregiously favorable terms because they can. But no supplier is required to sign up for that. 
    avon b7watto_cobraAlex1NradarthekattmaywilliamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 17 of 27
    ronnronn Posts: 687member
    AI totally lost me by including the dum dums at GT Advanced Technologies in the article. They and other suppliers bit off much more than they could chew and Apple did right by the terms of their contract sand business principles (not to mention shareholders) by going elsewhere. Nothing illegal. Nothing unethical.
    watto_cobraAlex1Nwilliamlondon
  • Reply 18 of 27
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,155member
    The innovating company should budget to buy out the cheap one.
    watto_cobraAlex1N
  • Reply 19 of 27
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,338member

    AppleInsider should be embarrassed about giving this article the title that they did.

    Nowhere in the article does it support the notion of "stealing" if the signed contract says that Apple at least co-owns the tech.

    That means a firm can invest in developing a production technique, and Apple is entirely within its rights to take that process to another firm. The accusation is both that Apple does this, and that it does so by giving information from US companies to suppliers in China.

    Ethical? No, but if Apple was paying the supplier while that supplier developed the process or technique, then one can say that Apple does own it, and the contract supports that.

    As a software engineer, I experience this all the time with clients. They can't see the grey areas between their product and my technology solutions developed in-house.

    edited May 3 watto_cobraAlex1NwilliamlondonFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 20 of 27
    iOS_Guy80iOS_Guy80 Posts: 903member
    ronn said:
    AI totally lost me by including the dum dums at GT Advanced Technologies in the article. They and other suppliers bit off much more than they could chew and Apple did right by the terms of their contract sand business principles (not to mention shareholders) by going elsewhere. Nothing illegal. Nothing unethical.
    Lost a few bucks when I invested in GT Advanced Technologies Sapphire glass project.
    watto_cobraVictorMortimer
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