EU has very serious issues with Apple, says competition chief

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 96
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:

    rob53 said:
    I have very serious issues with the dictatorship called the EU. 
    The fact that a democratically elected government is "dictating" rules that all businesses — even foreign ones — need to follow (we call them "laws") does not make them a "dictatorship". 

    You'd just rather not have to follow the law. 
    Apple doesn't just follow the letter of the law, they follow the spirit of the law. 
    The spirit of the law appears to largely consist of goalpost moving. 
    If a government is "enforcing" anything but the letter of the law, that's the opposite of the rule of law. The "spirit" of the law is entirely subjective and can be whatever someone decides they want it to be. The letter of the law is objective and the foundation of the rule of law and by extension Western democracy.

    The very idea that Apple must or ought do anything but follow the letter of the law goes entirely against the ethos of a free society based on the rule of law.
    williamlondonAlex1Nthtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 96
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    She's not pushing open markets or fair markets, nor is she running things by the book, unless it's a secret book that only she has access to. What she is pushing is preferential treatment for European companies at the expense of American companies. She's pushing for markets tilted in favor of companies like Spotify and against companies like Apple. Trade protectionism is alive and well under her leadership. Perhaps that's difficult to see from a European perspective, and obviously an American perspective may create an opposite bias, but her actions against American companies, and to give European companies whatever they want, are so blatantly protectionist, so precisely targeted, that the objective truth clearly is closer to the American perspective on this issue than the European.
    williamlondonAlex1Nthtlongfangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 96
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,031member
    The “very serious issues” are:

    1) Apple is an AMERICAN company

    2) Apple is wildly successful

    3) Apple is not currently the EU’s welfare program. 

    Apple has already complied perfectly with the ridiculous rules set forth by the corrupt EU. 

    For some incompetent reason, the EU has since allowed Apple’s competitors determine how well Apple has followed the one-sided rules and based their follow-up attacks against Apple n the complaints of greedy companies. 

    It’s rather pathetic. Need to get some grown ups to take over the mess that is the EU. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 96
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,604member
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    She's not pushing open markets or fair markets, nor is she running things by the book, unless it's a secret book that only she has access to. What she is pushing is preferential treatment for European companies at the expense of American companies. Perhaps that's difficult to see from a European perspective, and obviously an American perspective may create an opposite bias, but her actions against American companies, and to give European companies whatever they want, are so blatantly protectionist, so precisely targeted, that the objective truth clearly is closer to the American perspective on this issue than the European.
    You could look first to make sure you are correct.
    https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/search
    I find a plethora of competition law cases involving EU governments and companies. 
    muthuk_vanalingamsphericnubusAlex1N
  • Reply 25 of 96
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,031member
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    Apple has always been an open market player. 

    So your fluff piece is moot. 

    Apple operates a store. Apple gets its commission. Boom done. 

    This is how it’s been done in the history of stores to this day. 

    What stores dont do:

    A) host signs and banners telling you to go to one of your vendors house to get a shirt for cheaper. 

    B) use Billy bobs payment system since Billy Bob sells sandals in your store. 

    C) let vendors put up their own store inside of your store and not pay a commission on sold items
    and rent) 

    it’s flat out criminal what this corrupt organization has done. They’ve basically robbed Apple and then made them pay to operate other people’s marketing, hosting, and discovery. The heck out of here. 

    Try selling something through Walmart and pull these things: you’ll ba banned from selling through them and all affiliates and partners for life. And that’s what should have happened here. Penalize the contract-breakers, the thieves, and the hijackers, not the store operator. 

    Common sense does not exist in European government. 
    thtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 96
    MesonMeson Posts: 13member
    The “very serious issues” are:

    1) Apple is an AMERICAN company

    2) Apple is wildly successful

    3) Apple is not currently the EU’s welfare program. 

    Apple has already complied perfectly with the ridiculous rules set forth by the corrupt EU. 

    For some incompetent reason, the EU has since allowed Apple’s competitors determine how well Apple has followed the one-sided rules and based their follow-up attacks against Apple n the complaints of greedy companies. 

    It’s rather pathetic. Need to get some grown ups to take over the mess that is the EU. 
    This is a public service announcement: These regulations are put in place to protect consumers.

    What amazes me is that Apple has convinced a lot of the people that they are the victims from these regulations. Somehow, the EU is viewed that they are somehow just going after Apple. These regulations are put in place to go after monopolies, and unfortunately, Apple is one on iOS.
    williamlondonnubus
  • Reply 27 of 96
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,031member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said: I also agree with you. Apple is dragging its feet and making, minimum to no effort, to comply with a law that is actually easy to define in terms of spirit. 
    LOL...Apple made massive changes to iOS in a very short period of time as a result of the DMA going into effect. The reality of the Core Technology Fee is that Apple is doing what the EU itself did with the DMA: charge $$ for size...in this case, number of annual installs instead of number of monthly users. 
    Laugh all you want but we'll see who has the last laugh. 

    Those 'massive' changes were made under pressure to correct (in essence) a situation that was harming EU consumers and should never have been there in the first place. It still is and that's why the possibility of a fine remains.


    *more LOL*

    Literally zero eu consumers were harmed by the way it was. But they are certainly more open to harm from unscrupulous third parties under the EU roadmap. 

    The only thing “wrong” according to the scrubs at the EU was that Apple was successful and American. Oh. And that castle in Austria wasn’t owned by an EU politician yet. Easily rectified with a fine or two. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 96
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,031member
    To really get where this is coming from, you only need remember one of Margethe’s EU buddies gave an interview stating that Apple was violating their compliance to DMA before there was even any investigation or probe as to what that would entail. 

    Apple has done nothing wrong. They’ve found a way to still be successful in the aftermath of a ruling designed solely to diminish their previous success. A two tires system where successful American companies are punished and European companies get to hijack and freeload at the American companies expense. 

    They he whole thing needs to be overturned and reset. And then left alone as it was. That is the most fair and open way to move forward. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 96
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,973member
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    Apple has always been an open market player. 

    So your fluff piece is moot. 

    Apple operates a store. Apple gets its commission. Boom done. 

    This is how it’s been done in the history of stores to this day. 

    What stores dont do:

    A) host signs and banners telling you to go to one of your vendors house to get a shirt for cheaper. 

    B) use Billy bobs payment system since Billy Bob sells sandals in your store. 

    C) let vendors put up their own store inside of your store and not pay a commission on sold items
    and rent) 

    it’s flat out criminal what this corrupt organization has done. They’ve basically robbed Apple and then made them pay to operate other people’s marketing, hosting, and discovery. The heck out of here. 

    Try selling something through Walmart and pull these things: you’ll ba banned from selling through them and all affiliates and partners for life. And that’s what should have happened here. Penalize the contract-breakers, the thieves, and the hijackers, not the store operator. 

    Common sense does not exist in European government. 
    The store itself isn't really as much of a problem as the platform it is on. A platform that limits competitors. 

    It's not about a store in a store. It's about alternative stores on the platform. 

    As Apple has the keys to the gate it was deemed a gatekeeper. It got away with that unfair for years. 
    edited June 18 muthuk_vanalingam9secondkox2
  • Reply 30 of 96
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member
    gatorguy said:
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    She's not pushing open markets or fair markets, nor is she running things by the book, unless it's a secret book that only she has access to. What she is pushing is preferential treatment for European companies at the expense of American companies. Perhaps that's difficult to see from a European perspective, and obviously an American perspective may create an opposite bias, but her actions against American companies, and to give European companies whatever they want, are so blatantly protectionist, so precisely targeted, that the objective truth clearly is closer to the American perspective on this issue than the European.
    You could look first to make sure you are correct.
    https://competition-cases.ec.europa.eu/search
    I find a plethora of competition law cases involving EU governments and companies. 
    Your comment, as usual, ignores the context of this discussion.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 96
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member
    avon b7 said:
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    Apple has always been an open market player. 

    So your fluff piece is moot. 

    Apple operates a store. Apple gets its commission. Boom done. 

    This is how it’s been done in the history of stores to this day. 

    What stores dont do:

    A) host signs and banners telling you to go to one of your vendors house to get a shirt for cheaper. 

    B) use Billy bobs payment system since Billy Bob sells sandals in your store. 

    C) let vendors put up their own store inside of your store and not pay a commission on sold items
    and rent) 

    it’s flat out criminal what this corrupt organization has done. They’ve basically robbed Apple and then made them pay to operate other people’s marketing, hosting, and discovery. The heck out of here. 

    Try selling something through Walmart and pull these things: you’ll ba banned from selling through them and all affiliates and partners for life. And that’s what should have happened here. Penalize the contract-breakers, the thieves, and the hijackers, not the store operator. 

    Common sense does not exist in European government. 
    The store itself isn't really as much of a problem as the platform it is on. A platform that limits competitors. 

    It's not about a store in a store. It's about alternative stores on the platform. 

    As Apple has the keys to the gate it was deemed a gatekeeper. It got away with that unfair for years. 
    So, you're saying that Apple should be able to sell music through Spotify without paying them anything right? After all, with by far the largest share of the streaming market in Europe, the Spotify platform is a gatekeeper for music, and they don't currently allow anyone else to sell music on their platform, thus limiting competitors. I mean, it's all about alternative stores, right?
    edited June 18 williamlondonAlex1N9secondkox2thtbeowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 96
    spheric said:
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:

    rob53 said:
    I have very serious issues with the dictatorship called the EU. 
    The fact that a democratically elected government is "dictating" rules that all businesses — even foreign ones — need to follow (we call them "laws") does not make them a "dictatorship". 

    You'd just rather not have to follow the law. 
    Apple doesn't just follow the law, they follow the spirit of the law. 
    In this case, they're absolutely not following the spirit of the law. 

    They're complying with the letter, but adding extra levies to ensure that following the law makes effectively no difference. 

    That's the opposite of "following the spirit of the law", and it didn't fly with the EU commission. 
    Nope, they're not even following the letter of the law.  That "core technology" feerent seeking is blatantly illegal.
    9secondkox2
  • Reply 33 of 96
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member
    spheric said:
    gatorguy said:
    spheric said:

    rob53 said:
    I have very serious issues with the dictatorship called the EU. 
    The fact that a democratically elected government is "dictating" rules that all businesses — even foreign ones — need to follow (we call them "laws") does not make them a "dictatorship". 

    You'd just rather not have to follow the law. 
    Apple doesn't just follow the law, they follow the spirit of the law. 
    In this case, they're absolutely not following the spirit of the law. 

    They're complying with the letter, but adding extra levies to ensure that following the law makes effectively no difference. 

    That's the opposite of "following the spirit of the law", and it didn't fly with the EU commission. 
    Nope, they're not even following the letter of the law.  That "core technology" feerent seeking is blatantly illegal.
    Can you cite the exact section of the law under which the "core technology fee" is specifically prohibited?
    williamlondonAlex1N9secondkox2thtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 96
    spheric said:

    "Well, we have a number of Apple issues [and] I find them very serious," [Margrethe Vestager] said on CNBC.

    Chief of which is that Apple isn't paying enough graft to keep the EU off its back.
    I know the United States is devolving into some kind of corrupt banana republic where positions on courts and in government are handed out on a donation/friendship basis and Supreme Court Justices make millions in undisclosed "gifts" from "friends", but please don't assume that other places work the same way. 

    Thank you. 

    Where do you think our government officials learned that behaviour?  You think they came up with it all on their own?  No, they're copying what they see in Europe and other countries.
    9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 96
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,973member
    avon b7 said:
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    Apple has always been an open market player. 

    So your fluff piece is moot. 

    Apple operates a store. Apple gets its commission. Boom done. 

    This is how it’s been done in the history of stores to this day. 

    What stores dont do:

    A) host signs and banners telling you to go to one of your vendors house to get a shirt for cheaper. 

    B) use Billy bobs payment system since Billy Bob sells sandals in your store. 

    C) let vendors put up their own store inside of your store and not pay a commission on sold items
    and rent) 

    it’s flat out criminal what this corrupt organization has done. They’ve basically robbed Apple and then made them pay to operate other people’s marketing, hosting, and discovery. The heck out of here. 

    Try selling something through Walmart and pull these things: you’ll ba banned from selling through them and all affiliates and partners for life. And that’s what should have happened here. Penalize the contract-breakers, the thieves, and the hijackers, not the store operator. 

    Common sense does not exist in European government. 
    The store itself isn't really as much of a problem as the platform it is on. A platform that limits competitors. 

    It's not about a store in a store. It's about alternative stores on the platform. 

    As Apple has the keys to the gate it was deemed a gatekeeper. It got away with that unfair for years. 
    So, you're saying that Apple should be able to sell music through Spotify without paying them anything right? After all, with by far the largest share of the streaming market in Europe, the Spotify platform is a gatekeeper for music, and they don't currently allow anyone else to sell music on their platform, thus limiting competitors. I mean, it's all about alternative stores, right?
    What Spotify platform? Where are most Spotify users listening from? Its own platform? Is it limiting users to its own platform? 

    Are you implying Spotify has a captive audience? 


    muthuk_vanalingam9secondkox2
  • Reply 36 of 96
    I find it very hard to believe that Apple is deliberately ignoring laws pertaining of operating their business in the EU — that would just be bad for business.  They must have an argument for doing what they’re doing, which begs the question — aren’t the parties communicating?  Why does this EU knucklehead comment through the media about this instead of speaking directly to the company representative?  If they have a problem with the “core technology fee”, maybe they need to redraft their ridiculous DMA.  Because why should Apple be providing all of the services they offer to developers for free.  If the EU wants to complicate things further, my guess is that Apple will end up charging per API use, amongst the other services — none of which will be better for developers.  Welcome to the EU:  where innovation goes to die.
    9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 96
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    Apple has always been an open market player. 

    So your fluff piece is moot. 

    Apple operates a store. Apple gets its commission. Boom done. 

    This is how it’s been done in the history of stores to this day. 

    What stores dont do:

    A) host signs and banners telling you to go to one of your vendors house to get a shirt for cheaper. 

    B) use Billy bobs payment system since Billy Bob sells sandals in your store. 

    C) let vendors put up their own store inside of your store and not pay a commission on sold items
    and rent) 

    it’s flat out criminal what this corrupt organization has done. They’ve basically robbed Apple and then made them pay to operate other people’s marketing, hosting, and discovery. The heck out of here. 

    Try selling something through Walmart and pull these things: you’ll ba banned from selling through them and all affiliates and partners for life. And that’s what should have happened here. Penalize the contract-breakers, the thieves, and the hijackers, not the store operator. 

    Common sense does not exist in European government. 
    The store itself isn't really as much of a problem as the platform it is on. A platform that limits competitors. 

    It's not about a store in a store. It's about alternative stores on the platform. 

    As Apple has the keys to the gate it was deemed a gatekeeper. It got away with that unfair for years. 
    So, you're saying that Apple should be able to sell music through Spotify without paying them anything right? After all, with by far the largest share of the streaming market in Europe, the Spotify platform is a gatekeeper for music, and they don't currently allow anyone else to sell music on their platform, thus limiting competitors. I mean, it's all about alternative stores, right?
    What Spotify platform? Where are most Spotify users listening from? Its own platform? Is it limiting users to its own platform? 

    Are you implying Spotify has a captive audience? 


    So, you don't think its competitors deserve a fair shake inside the Spotify streaming ecosystem? Where's the consumer choice in that? I mean, surely Apple should be allowed to sell music/streaming inside Spotify? I don't get it, do you want to eliminate barriers to competition or not?  
    9secondkox2beowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 96
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,666member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    Apple has always been an open market player. 

    So your fluff piece is moot. 

    Apple operates a store. Apple gets its commission. Boom done. 

    This is how it’s been done in the history of stores to this day. 

    What stores dont do:

    A) host signs and banners telling you to go to one of your vendors house to get a shirt for cheaper. 

    B) use Billy bobs payment system since Billy Bob sells sandals in your store. 

    C) let vendors put up their own store inside of your store and not pay a commission on sold items
    and rent) 

    it’s flat out criminal what this corrupt organization has done. They’ve basically robbed Apple and then made them pay to operate other people’s marketing, hosting, and discovery. The heck out of here. 

    Try selling something through Walmart and pull these things: you’ll ba banned from selling through them and all affiliates and partners for life. And that’s what should have happened here. Penalize the contract-breakers, the thieves, and the hijackers, not the store operator. 

    Common sense does not exist in European government. 
    The store itself isn't really as much of a problem as the platform it is on. A platform that limits competitors. 

    It's not about a store in a store. It's about alternative stores on the platform. 

    As Apple has the keys to the gate it was deemed a gatekeeper. It got away with that unfair for years. 
    So, you're saying that Apple should be able to sell music through Spotify without paying them anything right? After all, with by far the largest share of the streaming market in Europe, the Spotify platform is a gatekeeper for music, and they don't currently allow anyone else to sell music on their platform, thus limiting competitors. I mean, it's all about alternative stores, right?
    What Spotify platform? Where are most Spotify users listening from? Its own platform? Is it limiting users to its own platform? 

    Are you implying Spotify has a captive audience? 


    So, you don't think its competitors deserve a fair shake inside the Spotify streaming ecosystem? Where's the consumer choice in that? I mean, surely Apple should be allowed to sell music/streaming inside Spotify? I don't get it, do you want to eliminate barriers to competition or not?  
    Strawman. Anybody is free to upload their music to Spotify. They do not artificially limit the market by excluding players from their platform. 

    If Apple had a label, that would be free to offer content via Spotify, as well. 
    edited June 18 gatorguy9secondkox2williamlondon
  • Reply 39 of 96
    Big tech is mostly American and so is an easy target for European regulators. In the end, companies like Apple have to decide if it’s worth doing business in the EU at all. Normally that would be a ridiculous thought but if fines approach annual world wide profits - which they could easily do under current EU laws, there’s really no point in being there. Let the EU come up with their own Apple.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 96
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,950member
    spheric said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    nubus said:
    Vestager is ultra pro open markets. It seems not all here get that part. She is pushing for competition all the way by keeping competition fair. If you're like Apple doing tax evasion with a "Double Irish with Dutch Sandwich" model then you can expect to take some heat. And EU is by the way not keeping fines. Those fines are 1:1 deducted from what the countries pay and EU can't charge taxes on their own. EU is not like the US government.

    If Apple can't handle a person running things by the book, fighting for open markets, and being passionate about fair competition then the person replacing Vestager later this year will be a nightmare to Apple. The election earlier this month gave nationalistic parties more votes. Trade protectionism is high on their agenda. Tim Cook shouting at Vestager has all the way been very unprofessional. You don't see him like that when working with communist dictatorships.
    Apple has always been an open market player. 

    So your fluff piece is moot. 

    Apple operates a store. Apple gets its commission. Boom done. 

    This is how it’s been done in the history of stores to this day. 

    What stores dont do:

    A) host signs and banners telling you to go to one of your vendors house to get a shirt for cheaper. 

    B) use Billy bobs payment system since Billy Bob sells sandals in your store. 

    C) let vendors put up their own store inside of your store and not pay a commission on sold items
    and rent) 

    it’s flat out criminal what this corrupt organization has done. They’ve basically robbed Apple and then made them pay to operate other people’s marketing, hosting, and discovery. The heck out of here. 

    Try selling something through Walmart and pull these things: you’ll ba banned from selling through them and all affiliates and partners for life. And that’s what should have happened here. Penalize the contract-breakers, the thieves, and the hijackers, not the store operator. 

    Common sense does not exist in European government. 
    The store itself isn't really as much of a problem as the platform it is on. A platform that limits competitors. 

    It's not about a store in a store. It's about alternative stores on the platform. 

    As Apple has the keys to the gate it was deemed a gatekeeper. It got away with that unfair for years. 
    So, you're saying that Apple should be able to sell music through Spotify without paying them anything right? After all, with by far the largest share of the streaming market in Europe, the Spotify platform is a gatekeeper for music, and they don't currently allow anyone else to sell music on their platform, thus limiting competitors. I mean, it's all about alternative stores, right?
    What Spotify platform? Where are most Spotify users listening from? Its own platform? Is it limiting users to its own platform? 

    Are you implying Spotify has a captive audience? 


    So, you don't think its competitors deserve a fair shake inside the Spotify streaming ecosystem? Where's the consumer choice in that? I mean, surely Apple should be allowed to sell music/streaming inside Spotify? I don't get it, do you want to eliminate barriers to competition or not?  
    Strawman. Anybody is free to upload their music to Spotify. They do not artificially limit the market by excluding players from their platform. 

    If Apple had a label, that would be free to offer content via Spotify, as well. 
    But they won't allow Apple to sell on their platform. Alternate stores, consumer choice, you know. So, no, it's not actually a straw man. That you think it's so absurd shows just how absurd what the EU is demanding of Apple, for Spotify's benefit, in fact is.
    beowulfschmidtwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
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