Jony Ive still thinks of Steve Jobs every day

Posted:
in General Discussion

In a new podcast interview, ex-Apple chief designer Jony Ive has told of his hard early years at the company, and how hard it was leaving.

Bald man with stubble and a blue shirt looking slightly to the right, set against a plain white background.
Jony Ive



Jony Ive left Apple in 2019, and reports since have claimed it was because of dissatisfaction with the company following the death of Steve Jobs. Speaking on the "Life in Seven Songs" podcast, he said leaving was more about needing to go on to the next phase of his life.

"I mean, it's a very natural thing, isn't it, that there are chapters and leaving Apple was in some senses, you know, a terribly hard thing to do because I did and I do love the company so, so hugely," he said. "And there's just times when, you know, it's time for the next chapter."

His next chapter concerned forming a design company named LoveFrom, which initially had Apple as a client.

"I had two areas of focus," he continued. "There was the goal to build the most extraordinary creative team that I could... and the other goal was to do that in San Francisco."

Asked about meeting Steve Jobs for the first time, he said he remembers it very clearly.

"I was shocked that he had the patience and the curiosity and interest to come and meet and to spend as much time as he did just looking through the work that was going on in the studio," said Ive, "which was very different from the work that we were, you know, developing and ultimately shipping."

"What was remarkable to me was where I could think and process myself and develop a perspective and an opinion and develop ideas, but could barely describe them," continued Ive, "here was somebody who could almost without thought, it made it appear effortless to describe really complex feelings and perceptions of ideas and opportunities."

"And so there's not a day that I'm not aware of him or aware of the loss," he said. "There's not a day where I'm not grateful for the time, you know, that we got together and for what I learned and what we discovered."

Jony Ive's playlist



"Life in Seven Songs" is a new fortnightly podcast from The San Francisco Standard. Much as the BBC's "Desert Island Discs" has been doing for over 80 years, the show asks an interviewee to select music that is significant to them and their life.

In the case of the new podcast, Ive's picks are:


  • "De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da" by The Police

  • "Main Theme/Carter Takes a Train" by Roy Budd

  • "Papa Was a Rollin' Stone" by The Temptations

  • "Don't You (Forget About Me)" by Simple Minds

  • "Define Dancing" by Thomas Newman

  • "40" by U2

  • "This Is The Day" by Ivy



Coincidentally, it's now 10 years since Apple infamously installed U2's then-new "Songs of Innocence" album on every user's iPhone.



Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,685member
    Johnny had some great designs, but I can't forgive him for the lack of ports on Macbooks and the poor battery life due to the obsession with being the thinnest.

    And the bending iPhone 6s.
    macxpress9secondkox2muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 2 of 17
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,860member
    The problem with Jony's designs is he was too focused on form over function. He was totally obsessed with thinness and the end result was a device that didn't function to its full potential. He was more about a fashion statement than he was designing a product people actually could use...like who the hell cares about a chamfered edge on an iPhone? People are just gonna put a case on it anyways. That brought no value to the customer. 
    edited July 3 muthuk_vanalingamcbrooker
  • Reply 3 of 17
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,896member
    Jony is the best industrial designer ever. 

    The man had so many absolutely epic home run hits that it’s ridiculous. 

    The engineers failed on the scissor keyboard, Intel lagged to the point that the thinnest MacBook Pro design wasn’t the best for performance and the apple board was stuck in analysis paralysis when it came time to move all-in on thunderbolt and ditch legacy tech, stopping at the notebook lineup. 

    Some like to blame Ive for those mistakes, but the reality is he wasn’t a man on an island doing that - it was apple as a whole. 

    Still, even if you did want to blame Ive, a rare miss (MacBook Pro 2015-2020) is a drop in the proverbial ocean of successes, which have defined Apple aesthetics forever much as Porsche’s designers have long ago. 

    And he wasn’t just successful, his products literally brought apple back from the dead - to becoming the most valuable company on earth. From iMac to iPod to iPhone to iPad, to notebooks to Mac Pro to AirPods to you name it. The guy has the Midas touch. His designs not only sold apple products, but revolutionized entire industries. Today, all smartphones look like his iPhone, notebooks? Just take a peek at Microsoft surface laptops and Samsungs. Tablets? It’s ridiculous. AirPods have their design copycats as well. 

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Jony Ive is flattered often by entire industries. 

    The man is a living legend and apple will always owe him a debt of gratitude. 
    xyzzy-xxxapple4thewinkiltedgreeniOS_Guy80regurgitatedcoproliteStrangeDaysAfarstarmeterestnz
  • Reply 4 of 17
    xyzzy-xxxxyzzy-xxx Posts: 190member
    Most of his designs were simply the best in the industry!
    iOS_Guy80
  • Reply 5 of 17
    ralphieralphie Posts: 109member
    Jony is the best industrial designer ever. 

    The man had so many absolutely epic home run hits that it’s ridiculous. 

    The engineers failed on the scissor keyboard, Intel lagged to the point that the thinnest MacBook Pro design wasn’t the best for performance and the apple board was stuck in analysis paralysis when it came time to move all-in on thunderbolt and ditch legacy tech, stopping at the notebook lineup. 

    Some like to blame Ive for those mistakes, but the reality is he wasn’t a man on an island doing that - it was apple as a whole. 

    Still, even if you did want to blame Ive, a rare miss (MacBook Pro 2015-2020) is a drop in the proverbial ocean of successes, which have defined Apple aesthetics forever much as Porsche’s designers have long ago. 

    And he wasn’t just successful, his products literally brought apple back from the dead - to becoming the most valuable company on earth. From iMac to iPod to iPhone to iPad, to notebooks to Mac Pro to AirPods to you name it. The guy has the Midas touch. His designs not only sold apple products, but revolutionized entire industries. Today, all smartphones look like his iPhone, notebooks? Just take a peek at Microsoft surface laptops and Samsungs. Tablets? It’s ridiculous. AirPods have their design copycats as well. 

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Jony Ive is flattered often by entire industries. 

    The man is a living legend and apple will always owe him a debt of gratitude. 
    Wrong on so many levels.  More like he owes Apple and Steve a debt of gratitude.  He was a nobody until Steve plucked him out of obscurity, and provided him great direction .
    edited July 3 9secondkox2
  • Reply 6 of 17
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,289member
    eriamjh said:
    Johnny had some great designs, but I can't forgive him for the lack of ports on Macbooks and the poor battery life due to the obsession with being the thinnest.

    And the bending iPhone 6s.
    The world exists in balance. In order to get some things right, you must get some things wrong. It's about learning what works and what doesn't. Perfection is not without its flaws.

    dewme9secondkox2
  • Reply 7 of 17
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,413member
    eriamjh said:
    Johnny had some great designs, but I can't forgive him for the lack of ports on Macbooks and the poor battery life due to the obsession with being the thinnest.

    And the bending iPhone 6s.
    "can't forgive him" ?? That's a bit dramatic, no? 

    9secondkox2
  • Reply 8 of 17
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,413member
    Having never met Steve Jobs, I'm sure I have an incomplete and in some ways inaccurate understanding of him. But I find that I also think of him often, just because he made so many good points and made them so well. One that I think about often is:

    When you grow up you tend to get told the world is the way it is and your life is just to live your life inside the world. Try not to bash into the walls too much. Try to have a nice family life, have fun, save a little money. That’s a very limited life. Life can be much broader once you discover one simple fact, and that is — everything around you that you call life, was made up by people who were no smarter than you. And you can change it, you can influence it, you can build your own things that other people can use.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYfNvmF0Bqw

    I remember one small instance in which I had that kind of realization. I was trying to use an equation from a text book and I wasn't getting the expected result. I started to suspect there was an error in the equation, so I checked another textbook, which had the same equation. So I banged my head against the wall for a while, convinced that I was doing something wrong -- surely it couldn't be the case that I was right and two textbooks were wrong. Finally, I went to my advisor, showed him the equation, and after looking at it for maybe 10 seconds he said, yeah that equation is wrong. 

    So I realized that this authoritative thing in the world, that I never questioned before, could be wrong. And not only could a textbook be wrong, but pretty clearly the people who write textbooks cut corners, like copying incorrect equations from older text books into their new text book. That experience made me think that maybe these other people weren't so much smarter than me, and maybe I can do something worthwhile, too. 

    That's the sort of thing that makes me think of Steve Jobs quite often. 


    hexclockXedmeterestnz
  • Reply 9 of 17
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,283member
    blastdoor said:
    Having never met Steve Jobs, I'm sure I have an incomplete and in some ways inaccurate understanding of him. But I find that I also think of him often, just because he made so many good points and made them so well. One that I think about often is:

    When you grow up you tend to get told the world is the way it is and your life is just to live your life inside the world. Try not to bash into the walls too much. Try to have a nice family life, have fun, save a little money. That’s a very limited life. Life can be much broader once you discover one simple fact, and that is — everything around you that you call life, was made up by people who were no smarter than you. And you can change it, you can influence it, you can build your own things that other people can use.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYfNvmF0Bqw

    I remember one small instance in which I had that kind of realization. I was trying to use an equation from a text book and I wasn't getting the expected result. I started to suspect there was an error in the equation, so I checked another textbook, which had the same equation. So I banged my head against the wall for a while, convinced that I was doing something wrong -- surely it couldn't be the case that I was right and two textbooks were wrong. Finally, I went to my advisor, showed him the equation, and after looking at it for maybe 10 seconds he said, yeah that equation is wrong. 

    So I realized that this authoritative thing in the world, that I never questioned before, could be wrong. And not only could a textbook be wrong, but pretty clearly the people who write textbooks cut corners, like copying incorrect equations from older text books into their new text book. That experience made me think that maybe these other people weren't so much smarter than me, and maybe I can do something worthwhile, too. 

    That's the sort of thing that makes me think of Steve Jobs quite often. 


    That’s a great quote you posted, and it reminds me of something Richard Feynman said when asked if it takes a special kind of person to become a physicist. 
    He replied something like, “No, there’s no special person. They are just people who studied hard and worked hard and learned all this stuff.” 

    All three of those men, Jon, Jobs, and Feynman, gave us a glimpse of the future, which continues to unfold and enrich our lives. 

    blastdoor
  • Reply 10 of 17
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,628member
    Ive gained a lot of weight in his last years at Apple.
    I've wondered if that was connected to his departure.
  • Reply 11 of 17
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,949member
    ralphie said:
    Jony is the best industrial designer ever. 

    The man had so many absolutely epic home run hits that it’s ridiculous. 

    The engineers failed on the scissor keyboard, Intel lagged to the point that the thinnest MacBook Pro design wasn’t the best for performance and the apple board was stuck in analysis paralysis when it came time to move all-in on thunderbolt and ditch legacy tech, stopping at the notebook lineup. 

    Some like to blame Ive for those mistakes, but the reality is he wasn’t a man on an island doing that - it was apple as a whole. 

    Still, even if you did want to blame Ive, a rare miss (MacBook Pro 2015-2020) is a drop in the proverbial ocean of successes, which have defined Apple aesthetics forever much as Porsche’s designers have long ago. 

    And he wasn’t just successful, his products literally brought apple back from the dead - to becoming the most valuable company on earth. From iMac to iPod to iPhone to iPad, to notebooks to Mac Pro to AirPods to you name it. The guy has the Midas touch. His designs not only sold apple products, but revolutionized entire industries. Today, all smartphones look like his iPhone, notebooks? Just take a peek at Microsoft surface laptops and Samsungs. Tablets? It’s ridiculous. AirPods have their design copycats as well. 

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Jony Ive is flattered often by entire industries. 

    The man is a living legend and apple will always owe him a debt of gratitude. 
    Wrong on so many levels.  More like he owes Apple and Steve a debt of gratitude.  He was a nobody until Steve plucked him out of obscurity, and provided him great direction .
    Incorrect. Jobs recognized his talent and retained him at Apple. Jobs didn’t bestow talent onto him. 
    dewme9secondkox2
  • Reply 12 of 17
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,825member
    ralphie said:

    Wrong on so many levels.  More like he owes Apple and Steve a debt of gratitude.  He was a nobody until Steve plucked him out of obscurity, and provided him great direction .
    No. Ive and Jobs built on each other's strengths and as a team (with many others obviously), achieved remarkable goals. This obviates too the 'Ive was only interested in form' argument too - you can be certain that no design elements got through development to market that did not meet with Job's approval and he was very much 'form and function'. Not surprised that Ive thinks of his partner and friend of old often.
    9secondkox2
  • Reply 13 of 17
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,860member
    Jony is the best industrial designer ever. 

    The man had so many absolutely epic home run hits that it’s ridiculous. 

    The engineers failed on the scissor keyboard, Intel lagged to the point that the thinnest MacBook Pro design wasn’t the best for performance and the apple board was stuck in analysis paralysis when it came time to move all-in on thunderbolt and ditch legacy tech, stopping at the notebook lineup. 

    Some like to blame Ive for those mistakes, but the reality is he wasn’t a man on an island doing that - it was apple as a whole. 

    Still, even if you did want to blame Ive, a rare miss (MacBook Pro 2015-2020) is a drop in the proverbial ocean of successes, which have defined Apple aesthetics forever much as Porsche’s designers have long ago. 

    And he wasn’t just successful, his products literally brought apple back from the dead - to becoming the most valuable company on earth. From iMac to iPod to iPhone to iPad, to notebooks to Mac Pro to AirPods to you name it. The guy has the Midas touch. His designs not only sold apple products, but revolutionized entire industries. Today, all smartphones look like his iPhone, notebooks? Just take a peek at Microsoft surface laptops and Samsungs. Tablets? It’s ridiculous. AirPods have their design copycats as well. 

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Jony Ive is flattered often by entire industries. 

    The man is a living legend and apple will always owe him a debt of gratitude. 
    Everyone loves a mouse with the charging port on the bottom just because he didn't wanna see a charging port on it. So useful! He made some nice things like the original iMac, iPod, and original iPhone but he let his success get to his head and needed Steve to reel him back in a little....unfortunately after Steve passed away his designs may have looked cool but overall as a product his designs just sucked and were very impractical. 
    edited July 4 muthuk_vanalingampaisleydisco9secondkox2
  • Reply 14 of 17
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,896member
    macxpress said:
    Jony is the best industrial designer ever. 

    The man had so many absolutely epic home run hits that it’s ridiculous. 

    The engineers failed on the scissor keyboard, Intel lagged to the point that the thinnest MacBook Pro design wasn’t the best for performance and the apple board was stuck in analysis paralysis when it came time to move all-in on thunderbolt and ditch legacy tech, stopping at the notebook lineup. 

    Some like to blame Ive for those mistakes, but the reality is he wasn’t a man on an island doing that - it was apple as a whole. 

    Still, even if you did want to blame Ive, a rare miss (MacBook Pro 2015-2020) is a drop in the proverbial ocean of successes, which have defined Apple aesthetics forever much as Porsche’s designers have long ago. 

    And he wasn’t just successful, his products literally brought apple back from the dead - to becoming the most valuable company on earth. From iMac to iPod to iPhone to iPad, to notebooks to Mac Pro to AirPods to you name it. The guy has the Midas touch. His designs not only sold apple products, but revolutionized entire industries. Today, all smartphones look like his iPhone, notebooks? Just take a peek at Microsoft surface laptops and Samsungs. Tablets? It’s ridiculous. AirPods have their design copycats as well. 

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Jony Ive is flattered often by entire industries. 

    The man is a living legend and apple will always owe him a debt of gratitude. 
    Everyone loves a mouse with the charging port on the bottom just because he didn't wanna see a charging port on it. So useful! He made some nice things like the original iMac, iPod, and original iPhone but he let his success get to his head and needed Steve to reel him back in a little....unfortunately after Steve passed away his designs may have looked cool but overall as a product his designs just sucked and were very impractical. 
    I don’t know man. The 2019  Mac Pro was the epitome of form following function, yet crafting a striking image.  

    You may disagree, but I love the Magic Mouse. Spoiled for anything else now. I’m glad I don’t have to look at a charging port. I plug it in to a charger on Monday nights when needed and that’s that. It’s a plus. Just because something is a computer accessory doesn’t mean it has to look utilitarian. It looks rad and works perfectly. I don’t ever want to use a cable connected to it. Lots of people love it. It was his attention to detail in areas like that that make him the standout he is. Some nasty Logitech engineer would. Never be bold enough to take a design to its full conclusion like I’ve did. 

    You point out one feature you don’t like on e one accessory he made and act like your opinion of it defines the guys legacy post-jobs. That’s ridiculous. And it’s another form of he strange hate the guy gets for being so good. There are probably two things you can hate on if you must - the mouse and the 2015 MacBook Pro redesign, which I covered earlier (not an I’ve product - the result of all of apple) And that’s it. Two things and you want to rewrite history and do homebrew psychoanalysis. 

    I’ve didn’t let anything go to his head. He is a genuinely humble man. It was the sweeping nature of major change at apple that irked him via reports at the time. Steve was gone and the character of the apple he knew and loved was shifting. 

    He actually didn’t need much reeling in. He was a practical guy above all else and knew where the value line was. Where form would be more appreciated, he emphasized it. Where function was most important, he emphasized it (yet still made it look rad). He had radar for what people would love. 

    Jobs was perfect for him and he was perfect for Jobs. Apple wouldn’t have became what it is with only Steve Jobs and no Jony Ive - and vice versa. 

    Apple owes Ive huge mountains of gratitude. As much as Cook likes to pay respect to Steve, Ive deserves regular props at appropriate times as well. 
    edited 12:22AM
  • Reply 15 of 17
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,523member
    I don’t think you can really judge Jony Ive’s overall contribution to Apple, which is huge, by any single product. Designers are no different than any other professional, artist, craftsman, etc., in terms of being able to arrive at the “perfect” design every single time. In industrial design there are always constraints that have to be dealt with. One universal constraint is the need to be not only functional for the intended purpose but also easily usable by humans while being widely appealing and desirable.

    All of these constraints, most of which are competing for priority, lead to compromises and accommodations for any number of reasons, including but not limited to cost, manufacturability, size, weight, power, heat, human factors, etc. Picking the right balance is extremely difficult and important but it’s rarely perfect. No doubt that some designers, like Jony Ive, try to maintain the overall design as close to their design intent and vision as much as possible which ends up sacrificing a bit on other attributes, like accessibility to the mouse’s charging port.

    I think that a more holistic interpretation of Jony Ive’s impact of Apple’s success results in a much deeper appreciation of his expertise, abilities, and vision. If you look across the wider landscape of the products that Apple produced with Jony’s contributions you will repeatedly see that his designs not only established a deep brand recognition and design distinction for the Apple products themselves, but also established a benchmark and standard that many other product developers tried to copy at some level or another. Some of these copycat designs were freakishly clones of Apple’s designs while others attempted to add a design twist of their own that ended up with products that looked “off” compared to Apple’s designs. 

    Finally, the majority of folks on this forum, myself included, are only a small fraction of Apple’s customer base. Things that matter to us are not the only things that drive Apple’s design and product development decisions. The reality is that Apple’s successes are widespread and voluminous. Customer loyalty is through the roof. Finally, the bottom line numbers speak for themselves. Apple has been in a very good place for a long time. Every person at Apple that in some way touched the products being delivered can be thanked for that, but Jony and his team’s contributions were uniquely impactful for a long time and cannot be understated or graded based on any single design. The totality and impact of Jony’s vision was and continues to be one of the things that sets Apple apart from their competitors. Hopefully the standard he helped establish will live on for a very long time.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 16 of 17
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,078member
    macxpress said:
    The problem with Jony's designs is he was too focused on form over function. He was totally obsessed with thinness and the end result was a device that didn't function to its full potential. He was more about a fashion statement than he was designing a product people actually could use...like who the hell cares about a chamfered edge on an iPhone? People are just gonna put a case on it anyways. That brought no value to the customer. 
    Who cares? I do. The chamfered edge brings immense value to the customer. How’s that, you ask? It’s that level of attention to detail - even knowing it may be hidden by a case - that sets Apple apart from other manufacturers. 

    “Who cares … People are just gonna put a case on it anyways” perfectly encapsulates what’s wrong with so many other companies. It’s how they excuse saving a buck by sacrificing quality. Slap together anything you can’t see as quickly and cheaply as possible. 

    That attitude eventually permeates everything in a company’s culture. You may get more autonomy for engineers’ pet projects, but without the attention on overall design, usability is sacrificed for racing to market with poorly thought out bells and whistles that let a company claim they’re cutting edge for the ten minutes it takes for somebody else to add some other shiny object to their product. 

    Eventually with that “who cares” attitude, everything including design is controlled by MBA School bean counters who focus on hitting numbers for quarterly Wall Street reports so they can get their bonuses, and that company is just like every other company, always one quarter away from disaster because that’s how far their myopia lets them see. 

    So yeah, I care about the chamfered edges on an iPhone. That attention to detail represents a level of quality that’s really hard to find, and it represents planning and design that make an iPhone worth more than the sum of its parts. 
    dewme
  • Reply 17 of 17
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,860member
    AppleZulu said:
    macxpress said:
    The problem with Jony's designs is he was too focused on form over function. He was totally obsessed with thinness and the end result was a device that didn't function to its full potential. He was more about a fashion statement than he was designing a product people actually could use...like who the hell cares about a chamfered edge on an iPhone? People are just gonna put a case on it anyways. That brought no value to the customer. 
    Who cares? I do. The chamfered edge brings immense value to the customer. How’s that, you ask? It’s that level of attention to detail - even knowing it may be hidden by a case - that sets Apple apart from other manufacturers. 

    “Who cares … People are just gonna put a case on it anyways” perfectly encapsulates what’s wrong with so many other companies. It’s how they excuse saving a buck by sacrificing quality. Slap together anything you can’t see as quickly and cheaply as possible. 

    That attitude eventually permeates everything in a company’s culture. You may get more autonomy for engineers’ pet projects, but without the attention on overall design, usability is sacrificed for racing to market with poorly thought out bells and whistles that let a company claim they’re cutting edge for the ten minutes it takes for somebody else to add some other shiny object to their product. 

    Eventually with that “who cares” attitude, everything including design is controlled by MBA School bean counters who focus on hitting numbers for quarterly Wall Street reports so they can get their bonuses, and that company is just like every other company, always one quarter away from disaster because that’s how far their myopia lets them see. 

    So yeah, I care about the chamfered edges on an iPhone. That attention to detail represents a level of quality that’s really hard to find, and it represents planning and design that make an iPhone worth more than the sum of its parts. 
    Haha...you're the only one! 
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