Global chaos erupts as Windows security update goes bad

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 68
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,142member
    Hospital networks were also affected today. 
    I can't access some test results from yesterday because 'MyChart' is down...
    Alex1Npulseimagesdewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 68
    Rogue01Rogue01 Posts: 168member
    Poor writing and poor headline.  It was not a Windows update.  It was an update pushed out by CrowdStrike, for their software.  Companies that don't use their software were not affected.
    pulseimagesnrg2watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 68
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,683member
    Surprised something like this would get past testing (assuming testing was done).  
    Proper testing requires "testbeds" that are identical to BOTH the server side (Cloudstrike) and the client side (the airlines.) You can't assume that a testbed on one side is all that is required for "testing."

    Every system that needs to be reliable should have a document explaining what the average uptime percentage is. A 3-day outage per year would correspond to a 99% average uptime (since there are roughly 300 days per year.) I built and ran a system that had a 99.9% average uptime per year. That meant we were allowed about 8 hours of downtime per year. I think we always met that goal. But we had a lot of expenses building that system. Some years we had no downtime at all. If you want only one hour of downtime per year, then you need roughly 99.99% uptime. I would estimate that each additional "9" will double the price of your expenses, including salary, hardware, software, building space, etc.
    sconosciutoCurtisHightPetrolDavewatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 68
    No sooner are Labour in power… /s
    Ho hum, the old boring whatever <political party> must be to blame, most typically Labour.
    beowulfschmidtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 68
    Hospital networks were also affected today. 
    I can't access some test results from yesterday because 'MyChart' is down...
    And I received a call from my healthcare provider saying to call ahead tomorrow before my scheduled CT Scan to see if the problem has been fixed.
    dewmebaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 68
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,142member
    Hospital networks were also affected today. 
    I can't access some test results from yesterday because 'MyChart' is down...
    And I received a call from my healthcare provider saying to call ahead tomorrow before my scheduled CT Scan to see if the problem has been fixed.
    I just checked with Kaiser, and test results came up.  Well, at least some...
    pulseimageswatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 68
    dee_deedee_dee Posts: 129member
    AppleZulu said:
    So this is where we see letting third-party vendors have that level of access to the OS in order to provide security becomes a vulnerability in itself. 
    Nonsense. Good standards don’t let third parties to operate “on an OS level” since that access is not needed to begin with. In case of Apple and Microsoft they provide APIs and frameworks that other vendors can use. They stay within these boundaries (or there wouldn’t be a standard).

    Also, you could argue the very opposite. Letting a few tech giants in control over protocols used world-wide means that when things go bad, everything goes bad. 
    You might not understand how antivirus work, but kernel access is needed for them to function.  
    PetrolDavewilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 68
    dee_deedee_dee Posts: 129member
    ITGUYINSD said:
    The headline makes it sound like a Windows Update caused the issue, when in fact, the issue was a 3rd party software company.

    Could have been worded better.  People are already blaming Windows...this headline doesn't help.
    We don’t know as yet but let’s be honest - Windows definitely had a roll to play in this mess. There is always something breaking with that POS. 

    Companies that played their cards right and migrated to Linux or Mac are probably having a good chuckle right now. 
    edited July 20 pulseimageswilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 68
    applesauce007applesauce007 Posts: 1,702member
    AppleZulu said:
    So this is where we see letting third-party vendors have that level of access to the OS in order to provide security becomes a vulnerability in itself. 
    Yes indeed.  Huge global flaw in QA testing,  involving  so many different industries.
     I understand this was a mistake but it could have been malicious and targeted.

    A global Blue Screen Of Death from an automated 3rd party driver update, and I bet nothing will change at most companies, including Microsoft.
    PetrolDavethtdanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 68
    dee_dee said:
    AppleZulu said:
    So this is where we see letting third-party vendors have that level of access to the OS in order to provide security becomes a vulnerability in itself. 
    Nonsense. Good standards don’t let third parties to operate “on an OS level” since that access is not needed to begin with. In case of Apple and Microsoft they provide APIs and frameworks that other vendors can use. They stay within these boundaries (or there wouldn’t be a standard).

    Also, you could argue the very opposite. Letting a few tech giants in control over protocols used world-wide means that when things go bad, everything goes bad. 
    You might not understand how antivirus work, but kernel access is needed for them to function.  
    Not is some OSes you don't: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/endpointsecurity/monitoring_system_events_with_endpoint_security

    Read more at Writing a File Monitor with Apple's Endpoint Security Framework over at Objective-See

    edited July 20 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 68
    chr15hchr15h Posts: 14member
    Got to love what was reported as a ‘fix’ 
    “Microsoft has suggested switching devices on and off again up to 15 times”
    😂😂😂 I love working in IT.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 68
    PemaPema Posts: 98member
    chr15h said:
    Got to love what was reported as a ‘fix’ 
    “Microsoft has suggested switching devices on and off again up to 15 times”
    😂😂😂 I love working in IT.
    Why does that surprise you? If you have ever had the miserable experience of supporting Windows in the Enterprise you would know the old, hackneyed MS fix for every blue screen of death: ctrl+alt+del 
    If that don't fix it reinstall Windows 
    If that don't fix it 'thoughts and prayers'.  >:) 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 68
    dee_deedee_dee Posts: 129member
    dee_dee said:
    AppleZulu said:
    So this is where we see letting third-party vendors have that level of access to the OS in order to provide security becomes a vulnerability in itself. 
    Nonsense. Good standards don’t let third parties to operate “on an OS level” since that access is not needed to begin with. In case of Apple and Microsoft they provide APIs and frameworks that other vendors can use. They stay within these boundaries (or there wouldn’t be a standard).

    Also, you could argue the very opposite. Letting a few tech giants in control over protocols used world-wide means that when things go bad, everything goes bad. 
    You might not understand how antivirus work, but kernel access is needed for them to function.  
    Not is some OSes you don't: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/endpointsecurity/monitoring_system_events_with_endpoint_security

    Read more at Writing a File Monitor with Apple's Endpoint Security Framework over at Objective-See

    You proved my point.  Antivirus software doesn’t just monitor “files that change” - any file on the computer, including OS files need to be monitored.  You think viruses just play around in “My Docunents” folder ??   :D

    Think about it - if a virus can shut down that API then your antivirus software would be rendered useless. 
    edited July 20 williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 68
    M68000M68000 Posts: 830member
    I wonder if anybody else questions the name of “Crowdstrike”.  A very odd name and it does not sound like a positive thing.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 68
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,683member
    M68000 said:
    I wonder if anybody else questions the name of “Crowdstrike”.  A very odd name and it does not sound like a positive thing.  
    It anagrams into "Worst Dickers." Is that more positive?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 68
    jpellinojpellino Posts: 706member
  • Reply 57 of 68
    ITGUYINSD said:
    The headline makes it sound like a Windows Update caused the issue, when in fact, the issue was a 3rd party software company.

    Could have been worded better.  People are already blaming Windows...this headline doesn't help.
    That wasn’t clear to me either.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 68
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,229member
    tundraboy said:
    Maybe it's time for Apple to consider opening a business computing division.  Maybe acquire JAMF to start with.  I imagine all these companies that suffered would want to get away from monoculture systems and set up at least a back-up or parallel network.  Just think how big that business could be for Apple.  It'll double the company's size overnight.
    At least for small to medium sized companies, That is why I'm hopeful that Apple using their own hardware M2 Mac Studios as servers for Apple Intelligence will lead to leveraging what they learn so that they can apply it to the business computing side of things and offer solutions to the public, why not there obviously is a need?  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 68
    dee_dee said:
    dee_dee said:
    AppleZulu said:
    So this is where we see letting third-party vendors have that level of access to the OS in order to provide security becomes a vulnerability in itself. 
    Nonsense. Good standards don’t let third parties to operate “on an OS level” since that access is not needed to begin with. In case of Apple and Microsoft they provide APIs and frameworks that other vendors can use. They stay within these boundaries (or there wouldn’t be a standard).

    Also, you could argue the very opposite. Letting a few tech giants in control over protocols used world-wide means that when things go bad, everything goes bad. 
    You might not understand how antivirus work, but kernel access is needed for them to function.  
    Not in some OSes you don't: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/endpointsecurity/monitoring_system_events_with_endpoint_security

    Read more at Writing a File Monitor with Apple's Endpoint Security Framework over at Objective-See

    You proved my point.  Antivirus software doesn’t just monitor “files that change” - any file on the computer, including OS files need to be monitored.  You think viruses just play around in “My Docunents” folder ??   :D

    Think about it - if a virus can shut down that API then your antivirus software would be rendered useless. 
    The point is that an application can do what’s needed, without being in a privileged position to screw the kernel. Apple provides similar security tools to monitor processes and the network too: https://objective-see.org/products/utilities.html
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 68
    dee_deedee_dee Posts: 129member
    dee_dee said:
    dee_dee said:
    AppleZulu said:
    So this is where we see letting third-party vendors have that level of access to the OS in order to provide security becomes a vulnerability in itself. 
    Nonsense. Good standards don’t let third parties to operate “on an OS level” since that access is not needed to begin with. In case of Apple and Microsoft they provide APIs and frameworks that other vendors can use. They stay within these boundaries (or there wouldn’t be a standard).

    Also, you could argue the very opposite. Letting a few tech giants in control over protocols used world-wide means that when things go bad, everything goes bad. 
    You might not understand how antivirus work, but kernel access is needed for them to function.  
    Not in some OSes you don't: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/endpointsecurity/monitoring_system_events_with_endpoint_security

    Read more at Writing a File Monitor with Apple's Endpoint Security Framework over at Objective-See

    You proved my point.  Antivirus software doesn’t just monitor “files that change” - any file on the computer, including OS files need to be monitored.  You think viruses just play around in “My Docunents” folder ??   :D

    Think about it - if a virus can shut down that API then your antivirus software would be rendered useless. 
    The point is that an application can do what’s needed, without being in a privileged position to screw the kernel. Apple provides similar security tools to monitor processes and the network too: https://objective-see.org/products/utilities.html
    You are wrong.  Just look at the installation instructions for crowd strike on MacOS. You have to disable system security protection to allow kernel access. 

    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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