I hope Apple changes how they market the iphone or changes the warranty regarding this.
Last year my iphone got splashed next to a pool. The camera started fogging up on the inside and nothing I did could get rid of the moisture (fog would come back after slightly heating camera area). I took to an Apple store and they wouldn't replace it for free (I had Applecare plus). The water sensors were NOT triggered. I ended up doing a hot swap and mailed in my phone and they credited the full amount of the replacement charge. My experience at the store was a waste of my time and it shouldn't have been so difficult/complicated.
I've seen people film with their iphones underwater because they assume it is waterproof per Apple's marketing. It's not unreasonable to make such an assumption.
TLDR: iPhone had water in camera area. Apple store rejected my warranty replacement request. I filled out online form and had phone replaced for free. Apple should change their marketing or warranty to align with each other.
The logic for the limited warranty is probably something along the lines of "The design was tested for IP##, if there is water ingress under those conditions you must have damaged the seals".
That is a flawed argument. By that standard, zero warranty claims could ever exist because there would never be a manufacturing defect; every problem is user-created, which is obviously false. A defect in the seal could have existed from the factory, and allow water ingress when used in the conditions it's advertised with. To exclude that is no different to excluding camera problems due to using it in the sun too much, when advertising the phone being used to take photos in the sun.
My iPhone 13 Pro had dust in the lens, despite being sealed. You're saying that shouldn't have been covered because I must have somehow done something to get dust in the lens?
Either way in the UK, or the EU, and I would imagine Canada, Apple would have not a leg to stand on. You can't advertise the use of something then claim that using it that way might damage the product and that they won't cover it. That's just ridiculous, and it's fraudulent advertising.
The warranty for Samsung Galaxy phones works the same way. Exposure to water isn't considered normal use under the warranty. In other words, it's not a product that is specifically made to operate in water.
AFAIK, all phone manufacturers that advertise water resistance have a warrantee that excludes water damage.
Counter intuitive perhaps, but it is the way it has always been.
To be fair, AppleCare+ (unlike the standard warrantee) does have a clause that states repairs will not exceed $79 for water damage.
Adding an exclusion doesn't mean it's legal. It has yet to be tested in court.
Guess what - Sony (the first OEM to get their phones IP rated) falsely advertised as their Xperia Z phones as water-proof about a decade ago. And learnt the lesson the hard way in the form of lawsuits when they refused to entertain warranty claims on their phones with water damage. They gave a lesson on how to handle the legal text around IP ratings and what is covered under warranty and what is not covered etc to other OEMs. I am sure Apple would have covered their bases with this one and I don't think Apple would be in trouble over this lawsuit.
Splash, water, and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Liquid damage is not covered under warranty, but you might have rights under consumer law.
To prevent liquid damage, avoid:
Swimming or bathing with your iPhone
Exposing your iPhone to pressurized water or high velocity water, such as when showering, water skiing, wake boarding, surfing, jet skiing, and so on
Using your iPhone in a sauna or steam room
Intentionally submerging your iPhone in water
Operating your iPhone outside the suggested temperature ranges or in extremely humid conditions
Dropping your iPhone or subjecting it to other impacts
Disassembling your iPhone, including removing screws
Minimize exposing your iPhone to soap, detergent, acids or acidic foods, and any liquids — for example, perfume, insect repellent, lotions, sunscreen, oil, adhesive remover, hair dye, and solvents. If your iPhone comes into contact with any of these substances, follow the instructions to clean your iPhone.
What should I do if my iPhone gets wet?
If a liquid other than water splashes on your iPhone, rinse the affected area with tap water.
Wipe your iPhone off with a soft, lint-free cloth — for example, a lens cloth.
Make sure that your iPhone is dry before opening the SIM tray.
To dry your iPhone, tap it gently against your hand with the Lightning or USB-C connector facing down to remove excess liquid. Leave your iPhone in a dry area with some airflow. Placing your iPhone in front of a fan blowing cool air directly into the Lightning or USB-C connector might help the drying process.
Don't dry your iPhone using an external heat source or insert a foreign object, such as a cotton swab or a paper towel, into the Lightning or USB-C connector.
Your iPhone can warn you if there's liquid in the Lightning or USB-C connector when you connect a cable or an accessory to your iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max, iPhone XR, or later. Learn what to do if you see a liquid-detection alert on your iPhone.
If my iPhone gets wet, can I charge it?
If your iPhone has been exposed to liquid, unplug all cables and do not charge your device until it’s completely dry. Using accessories or charging when wet might damage your iPhone. Allow at least 5 hours before charging with a Lightning or USB-C cable or connecting an accessory.
For wireless charging, wipe off your iPhone with a soft, lint-free cloth — for example, a lens cloth. Make sure that your iPhone is dry before you place it on a compatible wireless charging mat.
What should I do if my iPhone got wet, and now its speaker sounds muffled?
Check to see if water is in the microphone or speaker: Place your iPhone, speaker side down, on a lint-free cloth and see if water drips out. Water in the port might degrade speaker or microphone performance until it completely evaporates. Dry your iPhone using the previous instructions.
What should I do if dust gets on my iPhone?
If dust or dirt gets on your iPhone, wipe it off with a soft, lint-free cloth — for example, a lens cloth. Make sure that your iPhone is free of dust before opening the SIM tray. Don't use cleaning products or compressed air.
The logic for the limited warranty is probably something along the lines of "The design was tested for IP##, if there is water ingress under those conditions you must have damaged the seals".
That is a flawed argument. By that standard, zero warranty claims could ever exist because there would never be a manufacturing defect; every problem is user-created, which is obviously false. A defect in the seal could have existed from the factory, and allow water ingress when used in the conditions it's advertised with. To exclude that is no different to excluding camera problems due to using it in the sun too much, when advertising the phone being used to take photos in the sun.
My iPhone 13 Pro had dust in the lens, despite being sealed. You're saying that shouldn't have been covered because I must have somehow done something to get dust in the lens?
Either way in the UK, or the EU, and I would imagine Canada, Apple would have not a leg to stand on. You can't advertise the use of something then claim that using it that way might damage the product and that they won't cover it. That's just ridiculous, and it's fraudulent advertising.
The warranty for Samsung Galaxy phones works the same way. Exposure to water isn't considered normal use under the warranty. In other words, it's not a product that is specifically made to operate in water.
AFAIK, all phone manufacturers that advertise water resistance have a warrantee that excludes water damage.
Counter intuitive perhaps, but it is the way it has always been.
To be fair, AppleCare+ (unlike the standard warrantee) does have a clause that states repairs will not exceed $79 for water damage.
Adding an exclusion doesn't mean it's legal. It has yet to be tested in court.
Guess what - Sony (the first OEM to get their phones IP rated) falsely advertised as their Xperia Z phones as water-proof about a decade ago. And learnt the lesson the hard way in the form of lawsuits when they refused to entertain warranty claims on their phones with water damage. They gave a lesson on how to handle the legal text around IP ratings and what is covered under warranty and what is not covered etc to other OEMs. I am sure Apple would have covered their bases with this one and I don't think Apple would be in trouble over this lawsuit.
This is different to Sony's claim of waterproof. Apple never advertised as waterproof, but they did advertise that the iPhone has an IP67/68, rating which as I said is an actual standard- higher than the Sony's IP56. To advertise anything with a feature to which people quite reasonably would believe the product should have, and then try and claim otherwise in some fine print you don't even have to review before buying the phone is not going to fly.
Interestingly the iPhone getting wet ads have actually been pulled from YT, which is odd as Apple doesn't usually pull old ads.
Sounds like he's is trying to redefine the definitions for water resistant & water proof
It's not as though Apple marketing discourages the inference of being "waterproof". We have them promoting "look what we found on the lake bottom and it still works!" stories on a regular basis. Marketing can be a bit weasily, so always go by the specs and legal disclaimers.
Apple promotes the iphone in lake stories? Citation needed.
The warranty for Samsung Galaxy phones works the same way. Exposure to water isn't considered normal use under the warranty. In other words, it's not a product that is specifically made to operate in water.
The lawsuit doesn’t make any claims that the phone needs to “operate” while under water just that it will not be damaged per the IP rating.
Sounds like he's is trying to redefine the definitions for water resistant & water proof
It's not as though Apple marketing discourages the inference of being "waterproof". We have them promoting "look what we found on the lake bottom and it still works!" stories on a regular basis. Marketing can be a bit weasily, so always go by the specs and legal disclaimers.
Apple promotes the iphone in lake stories? Citation needed.
Apple certainly seems happy with implying "don't worry about water, it's an iPhone" to potential buyers, instead of warning that water being splashed on one might void a warranty.
It’s water resistant for incidental water contact you walk outside and it’s raining and you quickly cover up, it can stand some water but doesn’t mean you can become a scuba diver, or play dunkin for toilets.
It’s water resistant for incidental water contact you walk outside and it’s raining and you quickly cover up, it can stand some water but doesn’t mean you can become a scuba diver, or play dunkin for toilets.
Schiller would disagree. They'll be fine even after a drop in the pool, or toilet as may be.
His comments about water and other liquids begins at the 40:20 mark
I don’t have time to this myself, but I suspect some enlightenment could be derived by comparing the fine print on this subject for the Apple Watch and the iPhone, if someone wants to do it.
The phone claims a level of water resistance. The watch is actually sold as something you can use while swimming. I suspect the difference in warranty language would shed light on what the phone’s warranty limitations are all about.
I don’t have time to this myself, but I suspect some enlightenment could be derived by comparing the fine print on this subject for the Apple Watch and the iPhone, if someone wants to do it.
The phone claims a level of water resistance. The watch is actually sold as something you can use while swimming. I suspect the difference in warranty language would shed light on what the phone’s warranty limitations are all about.
Apple's Watch warranty, even for the Apple Watch Ultra, will not cover water damage. But what about AppleCare+? That covers damage due to "unexpected and unintentional events" which includes accidental contact with liquids, after paying a deductible. Willfully wearing it in wet conditions may not be covered, so you wouldn't mention you intentionally went swimming with it. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254258623?sortBy=ran
You know the phrase "talk the talk, but not walk the walk"?
——————- and: “How to use Apple Watch in a swimming pool?
Open the Workout app on your Apple Watch. Turn the Digital Crown to Open Water Swim or Pool Swim. For Pool Swim workouts, set the pool length, then tap Start. When you're finished, press and hold the Digital Crown to unlock your Apple Watch, tap End, then tap End Workout.”
A friend dropped his iPhone 12 in a mop bucket and he immediately took it out but it was too late. It sucks but what can one do 🤷🏻♂️
My iPhone 12 Mini came out of the pocket on my SUP’s seat and went into the sea. About an hour later the tide went out and a crab fisher found it. I got it back and it’s been fine ever since.
It’s funny how something can work for some but not for someone else. But that’s electronics
A friend dropped his iPhone 12 in a mop bucket and he immediately took it out but it was too late. It sucks but what can one do 🤷🏻♂️
My iPhone 12 Mini came out of the pocket on my SUP’s seat and went into the sea. About an hour later the tide went out and a crab fisher found it. I got it back and it’s been fine ever since.
It’s funny how something can work for some but not for someone else. But that’s electronics
Sometimes there are manufacturing defects. Those defects could cause a phone to be susceptible to water ingress when used in accordance with Apple's advertising. These defects are what the warranty is legally supposed to protect against - so that in case if something really does "work for some but not for someone else", Apple is obliged to rectify the problem.
For the last few days I've been unable to post because of the Cloudfare verification step, which is successful after hitting the post button, but sends me back to the post message dialog but it's now empty (message not posted) and Chrome unable to render the page correctly.
I've cleared cookies for the site, restarted, signed in and out etc but it's still broken somewhere.
Something no one is mentioning is that Apple is not required to provide any warranty. As such, there is no “Right“ to any specific aspect of a warranty. The other point is that there is no such thing as a “waterproof” device. There are varying degrees of water resistance, but all of them have limits which is precisely why no manufacturer will warranty for water damage. There is no way to control for damage or other variables that are outside of the manufacturers’ control.
Apple has designed and tests the devices to meet a specific IPV standard. They have also provided a Warranty that Clearly and explicitly excludes water damage. I’m not sure how anyone can claim that Apple has not done exactly what they said they would do.
As an analogy, say, Ford shows an ad of its F150 pick up truck driving through mud and boulders. Now I take my pick up truck and drive it in a similar fashion, hit a boulder and break the axle. Do I have a right to sue Ford because they won’t cover the repair of the axle?
As an analogy, say, Ford shows an ad of its F150 pick up truck driving through mud and boulders. Now I take my pick up truck and drive it in a similar fashion, hit a boulder and break the axle. Do I have a right to sue Ford because they won’t cover the repair of the axle?
But if following their instructions to safely do so you damage your product, it's understandable that buyers might feel a bit of betrayal if the company's warranty won't stand behind what you were told was good to go. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102446# ;
Comments
Last year my iphone got splashed next to a pool. The camera started fogging up on the inside and nothing I did could get rid of the moisture (fog would come back after slightly heating camera area). I took to an Apple store and they wouldn't replace it for free (I had Applecare plus). The water sensors were NOT triggered. I ended up doing a hot swap and mailed in my phone and they credited the full amount of the replacement charge. My experience at the store was a waste of my time and it shouldn't have been so difficult/complicated.
I've seen people film with their iphones underwater because they assume it is waterproof per Apple's marketing. It's not unreasonable to make such an assumption.
TLDR: iPhone had water in camera area. Apple store rejected my warranty replacement request. I filled out online form and had phone replaced for free. Apple should change their marketing or warranty to align with each other.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/108039
It's a lot.
Interestingly the iPhone getting wet ads have actually been pulled from YT, which is odd as Apple doesn't usually pull old ads.
Start with the Sept. 12, 2018 Keynote. 40:58 mark
then
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250312425?sortBy=rank
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/03/03/iphone-11-survives-7-meters-deep-in-lake-for-a-week
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/03/06/iphone-11-reunited-with-owner-after-spending-6-months-in-a-lake
https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/23/man-recovers-iphone-lost-at-the-bottom-of-a-river-for-10-months
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/03/25/determined-owner-retrieves-working-iphone-from-frozen-lake-after-month-underwater
and lastly
https://www.patentlyapple.com/2020/11/italys-agcm-office-fined-apple-close-to-us12-million-for-deceiving-iphone-water-resistant-claims-whi.html
Apple certainly seems happy with implying "don't worry about water, it's an iPhone" to potential buyers, instead of warning that water being splashed on one might void a warranty.
Some search engines are better than others.
His comments about water and other liquids begins at the 40:20 mark
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254258623?sortBy=ran
You know the phrase "talk the talk, but not walk the walk"?
and:
“How to use Apple Watch in a swimming pool?
Open the Workout app on your Apple Watch. Turn the Digital Crown to Open Water Swim or Pool Swim. For Pool Swim workouts, set the pool length, then tap Start. When you're finished, press and hold the Digital Crown to unlock your Apple Watch, tap End, then tap End Workout.”
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/watch/apd09135915f/watchos#:~:text=Open%20the%20Workout%20app%20on,End%2C%20then%20tap%20End%20Workout.
It’s funny how something can work for some but not for someone else. But that’s electronics
I've cleared cookies for the site, restarted, signed in and out etc but it's still broken somewhere.
Apple has designed and tests the devices to meet a specific IPV standard. They have also provided a Warranty that Clearly and explicitly excludes water damage. I’m not sure how anyone can claim that Apple has not done exactly what they said they would do.
As an analogy, say, Ford shows an ad of its F150 pick up truck driving through mud and boulders. Now I take my pick up truck and drive it in a similar fashion, hit a boulder and break the axle. Do I have a right to sue Ford because they won’t cover the repair of the axle?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/102446# ;