Mac mini shows Apple can be low cost -- it just doesn't often want to

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in General Discussion

The new M4 Mac mini is exceptional value, but the line holding firm on pricing is an outlier for the firm that's used to charging $700 for Mac Pro wheels on top of exorbitant RAM and SSD prices.

Silver headphone band with colorful foam cups frames a rectangular silver device with ports and buttons.
An M4 Mac mini in front of AirPods Max -- image credit: Apple



The New Mac mini starts at $599 and that's a full $500 cheaper than the next least expensive Mac, the M2 MacBook Air. It's about as low a price as Apple goes, but to use the Mac mini, you have to have accessories.

A display, keyboard, and mouse or trackpad are essential, and together, they can add up. Buying Apple's lowest-cost options for these comes to $178 for a keyboard and mouse, plus $1,599 for a Studio Display.

You can buy lower cost and sometimes better value options -- especially some of the best displays for Mac. And then, there are optional accessories for your Mac mini, or any Mac. There are optional accessories that mean you could choose between them, or buying another M4 Mac mini.

Apple's most infamous costly extras



While they are solely for one type of Mac, Apple's Mac Pro Wheels Kit is the flagship for accessories so expensive you think it's a joke. If you don't order wheels with your Mac Pro, buying them later will cost you $699.

Four black wheels with silver centers above four cylindrical metal stands on a white background.
Mac Pro Wheels (top) cost $499, but the feet (bottom) are a bargain $299-- image credit: Apple



That's the same as a base Mac mini upgraded to have 10 Gigabit Ethernet.

Or there's the Apple Pro Display XDR, which starts at $5,000 and raises the question of what an accessory is. Unless you plan to lean it up against a convenient wall, you have to have one of the optional accessory stands.

Just as infamously as the Mac Pro wheels, there's the $1000 Pro Stand. That's the price of an M4 Mac mini upgraded to 1TB SSD storage, or 32GB RAM.

Apple does also sell a VESA mount for the Studio Display. And, to be fair, that is a mere $200.

But then a Pro Display XDR plus that VESA mount is the equivalent of eight Mac minis.

Third-party accessories sold by Apple



Apple Stores, including the online one, stock many items that are not made by Apple. Of those meant for the Mac and the iPhone, there's an Apogee Duet 3 preamp that costs $650.

For that money, you could buy a base M4 Mac mini plus a $45 thumb drive like the 128GB SanDisk iXpand Flash Drive Luxe.

Or for $50 more, Apple sells an AmpliFi Alien Router and MeshPoint Range Extender. That would help you network all the Macs you could have otherwise bought.

Silver luxury smartwatch with a metallic link band, featuring a square face and black numerals on a white background.
The Apple Watch Hermes Satine Grand H costs $999, Apple Watch not included -- image credit: Apple



But Apple accessories are not all for the Mac. If you have an Apple Watch, for instance, you can buy an Apple Watch Hermes Satine Grand H strap for $1,000.

That's the cost of a base M4 Mac mini upgraded to both 24GB RAM, and 512GB SSD storage.

Left to its own devices



Sticking to just the cost of an M4 Mac mini or lower, Apple does obviously sell the iPhone SE for $429. But it also still stocks the 2022 iPhone 14.

In its base 128GB version, the iPhone 14 is the same price as a Mac mini.

But then this price range also includes that other Apple accessory where the price made people wince. Unlike all of the other accessories, though, this device has had opportunity for serious updates -- and it has only had a single minor one.

After almost four years, the AirPods Max still cost $549. Keep checking the AppleInsider Mac mini price guide and even the new M4 version will eventually dip below the price of AirPods Max.

But then if you take a base M4 Mac mini, upgrade it to 24GB RAM and 1TB SSD, and you could have bought a second Mac mini.

Someone or rather some team at Apple puts a lot of work into pricing. There will be an element of what's called cost-plus, where you start with how much it actually costs Apple to make something, and that's complicated enough.

But there's also got to be a calculation to do with finding the precise price point at which no-one will buy -- and then taking a dollar off it.



Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 18
    Apple’s most profitable product is the iPhone. To keep it strong you need a low bar for developers, and that’s what we have with the Mac Mini - dev and test hardware.
    williamlondonAlex_V
  • Reply 2 of 18
    M68000M68000 Posts: 883member
    As somebody still using a 2014 mini with Fusion Drive,  you can be sure I’m excited by this new version.  Seems like a great value,  add monitor(s) to suit.   Love the headphone jack being on it.  Still would like to have one usb-a port on the back,  but not a big deal.
    edited November 6 watto_cobramacnavarra
  • Reply 3 of 18
    schlackschlack Posts: 729member
    The Mac Mini is an outstanding value at $600 ($500 educational pricing).

    But it's got a narrow use case. Older parents, office workers, businesses, server farms, etc.

    Most folks who want desktops are looking for more power (GPU/CPU/RAM/etc.) or easy customization.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 4 of 18
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,940member
    Apple's been upfront about that. They've stated before they're not in a race to the bottom and they will never try to compete on price. When you get stuck in that mentality your products go straight to the shitter. 
    edited November 6 Alex_VAlex1NForumPostwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 18
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,853member
    macxpress said:
    Apple's been upfront about that. They've stated before they're not in a race to the bottom and they will never try to compete on price. When you get stuck in that mentality your products go straight to the shitter. 
    They have 100% competed on price here though. Especially since it comes with 16GB RAM as standard (at last!).The cost of the storage is still absurd, but with Thunderbolt/USB 3.2 it doesn't really matter.

    It shows they can do it, but they just choose not to. Which is a shame, because more Mac marketshare gives a better experience for Mac users.
    edited November 6 Alex1Ngrandact73ForumPostwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 18
    y2any2an Posts: 231member
    Apple has been enormously successful in maintaining a high operating margin. That drives them to introduce products at higher price points than competitors but with features which resonate with buyers as higher perceived value, which enables operating margin maintenance. 
    Alex_VAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 18
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,255member
    Y2an understands.

    Apple has given up raw marketshare by protecting gross margins. This is not specific to Macs, they have done this with pretty much all product lines for the past 25+ years: iPod, Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Apple TV, whatever.

    Apple doesn't want to erode gross margin by competing with bargain basement MP3 players, WiFi routers, ultrabooks, mini smartphones, smart watches, earbuds, whatever.

    From an ROI perspective, duking it out on the low end is simply not cost effective for a company with a brand focused on premium categories. That just dilutes brand valuation. Apple's strategy is to let others grub for crumbs on the low end of the scale while taking the lion's share of the profits on the high end. This is nothing new, they have been doing this pretty much from the company's inception.

    The M4 Mac mini competes with the M2 Mac mini. If you want a barebones Windows mini PC, you can have one around $150.
    Alex_VAlex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 18
    nubusnubus Posts: 623member
    schlack said:
    The Mac Mini is an outstanding value at $600 ($500 educational pricing).
    But it's got a narrow use case.
    The 4 desktop series combined are probably 0.7% of Apple. Each of the 4 models have a very narrow use case.

    To me the solution is to discontinue both iMac and Mac Pro.

    iMac was iconic to a generation like Volkswagen Beetle and Ford T before. Apple discontinued iconic products like iPod and we're still here.
    Mac Pro is simply not a very good product. You can't replace CPU, GPU, or memory. Eithe create a Pro that makes sense or get rid of it.

    ForumPost
  • Reply 9 of 18
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,311member
    schlack said:
    The Mac Mini is an outstanding value at $600 ($500 educational pricing).

    But it's got a narrow use case. Older parents, office workers, businesses, server farms, etc.

    Most folks who want desktops are looking for more power (GPU/CPU/RAM/etc.) or easy customization.
    Your comment makes no sense. The new M4 Mac mini is the same as the M4 MBPs, just without the keyboard, trackpad and display. The M4 and M4 Pro are the exact same SoCs. The iMac is using the base M4 SoC, not even the Pro version so the mini is actually more powerful than the desktop iMac. As for customizations, Apple only has one customizable (after purchase) Mac and that's the Mac Pro. The Mac Studio might be able to upgrade its storage but not necessarily easily. Every Mac, especially the M4 Mac mini, has the ability to connect multiple external devices. 

    As for "folks" who want desktops for more power, the new M4 series of Macs have plenty of power, in fact more power than all consumer PCs, which I assume you're talking about, and almost as much power as specialized PCs, which end up costing much more. 
    MacProelijahgAlex1Ndanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 18
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,851member
    The argument that Apple computers are overpriced is a tired one.  On many occasions, I have bought a PC with quality specifications similar to a Mac (well, as close as you can get), and they cost an arm and a leg. Just because cheap and nasty PCs proliferate does not equate to overpriced Macs.
    thtAlex1NdanoxForumPostwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 18
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,311member
    MacPro said:
    The argument that Apple computers are overpriced is a tired one.  On many occasions, I have bought a PC with quality specifications similar to a Mac (well, as close as you can get), and they cost an arm and a leg. Just because cheap and nasty PCs proliferate does not equate to overpriced Macs.
    I'd like a breakdown of costs in the new M-series Macs. Almost everything is on the SoC, no external storage or memory (if you count the storage as being part of the SoC). There's hardly anything of value once you pay for the SoC. If you look at the M2 Mac mini teardown on iFixit (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Mini+M2+Teardown/157365) there's hardly anything there that requires a person to install. From what I can see, all the semiconductor components should be able to be able to be robotically installed. Even the peripheral port components. About all a person needs to do is insert the board and screw it together. Labor is usually the most expensive part of construction other than the main SoC. How much does packing cost? How much does Apple pay for advertising? How much profit??? Should a Mac mini actually cost what Apple is selling it for?
    elijahgmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 18
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,851member
    rob53 said:
    MacPro said:
    The argument that Apple computers are overpriced is a tired one.  On many occasions, I have bought a PC with quality specifications similar to a Mac (well, as close as you can get), and they cost an arm and a leg. Just because cheap and nasty PCs proliferate does not equate to overpriced Macs.
    I'd like a breakdown of costs in the new M-series Macs. Almost everything is on the SoC, no external storage or memory (if you count the storage as being part of the SoC). There's hardly anything of value once you pay for the SoC. If you look at the M2 Mac mini teardown on iFixit (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Mini+M2+Teardown/157365) there's hardly anything there that requires a person to install. From what I can see, all the semiconductor components should be able to be able to be robotically installed. Even the peripheral port components. About all a person needs to do is insert the board and screw it together. Labor is usually the most expensive part of construction other than the main SoC. How much does packing cost? How much does Apple pay for advertising? How much profit??? Should a Mac mini actually cost what Apple is selling it for?
    You could use the same argument with many things.  My F-Pace costs much more than my friend's Honda SUV, and he argues they are virtually the same, so they should cost the same.  Driving them both, I beg to differ.
    edited November 7 danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 18
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,255member
    rob53 said:
    MacPro said:
    The argument that Apple computers are overpriced is a tired one.  On many occasions, I have bought a PC with quality specifications similar to a Mac (well, as close as you can get), and they cost an arm and a leg. Just because cheap and nasty PCs proliferate does not equate to overpriced Macs.
    I'd like a breakdown of costs in the new M-series Macs. Almost everything is on the SoC, no external storage or memory (if you count the storage as being part of the SoC). There's hardly anything of value once you pay for the SoC. If you look at the M2 Mac mini teardown on iFixit (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Mini+M2+Teardown/157365) there's hardly anything there that requires a person to install. From what I can see, all the semiconductor components should be able to be able to be robotically installed. Even the peripheral port components. About all a person needs to do is insert the board and screw it together. Labor is usually the most expensive part of construction other than the main SoC. How much does packing cost? How much does Apple pay for advertising? How much profit??? Should a Mac mini actually cost what Apple is selling it for?
    LOL, where do you think you'll get that BOM? From Apple?!? Ahahahahahahahaha!!!!

    Even Apple's senior executives have periodically laughed at third-party BOM estimates.

    Apple does provide gross margin numbers in their SEC filings. Some more shrewd analysts have picked apart the numbers and made ballpark guesses as to estimated GMs for the various hardware products Apple has sold over the years.

    It's worth pointing out that advertising is not part of COGS. Those expenses would fall under SG&A in the financial statements.

    No company will forward individual product gross margins. Not Apple, not General Motors, not the bakery at the corner. You are asking questions that no one will answer. Sure, there are people in corporate accounting department that know and most of the product managers also discuss such matter at regular business review meetings and budget planning sessions but Joe Public is not going to know the cost of a Honda Civic, iPhone 16 Pro, or a can of Coca-Cola.
    Alex1Nthtwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 18
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,427member
    rob53 said:
    MacPro said:
    The argument that Apple computers are overpriced is a tired one.  On many occasions, I have bought a PC with quality specifications similar to a Mac (well, as close as you can get), and they cost an arm and a leg. Just because cheap and nasty PCs proliferate does not equate to overpriced Macs.
    I'd like a breakdown of costs in the new M-series Macs. Almost everything is on the SoC, no external storage or memory (if you count the storage as being part of the SoC). There's hardly anything of value once you pay for the SoC. If you look at the M2 Mac mini teardown on iFixit (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Mini+M2+Teardown/157365) there's hardly anything there that requires a person to install. From what I can see, all the semiconductor components should be able to be able to be robotically installed. Even the peripheral port components. About all a person needs to do is insert the board and screw it together. Labor is usually the most expensive part of construction other than the main SoC. How much does packing cost? How much does Apple pay for advertising? How much profit??? Should a Mac mini actually cost what Apple is selling it for?

    All that research and development thru all those years of building developing Apple Silicon and multiple ecosystems and many other things maintaining them over the years isn’t cheap and never will be if you want a cheaper solution. There’s always an Android, Microsoft, Google Chromebooks and Samsung. Apple has never been in the marketshare game (the race to the bottom).
    edited November 7 Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 18
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,853member
    danox said:
    rob53 said:
    MacPro said:
    The argument that Apple computers are overpriced is a tired one.  On many occasions, I have bought a PC with quality specifications similar to a Mac (well, as close as you can get), and they cost an arm and a leg. Just because cheap and nasty PCs proliferate does not equate to overpriced Macs.
    I'd like a breakdown of costs in the new M-series Macs. Almost everything is on the SoC, no external storage or memory (if you count the storage as being part of the SoC). There's hardly anything of value once you pay for the SoC. If you look at the M2 Mac mini teardown on iFixit (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Mini+M2+Teardown/157365) there's hardly anything there that requires a person to install. From what I can see, all the semiconductor components should be able to be able to be robotically installed. Even the peripheral port components. About all a person needs to do is insert the board and screw it together. Labor is usually the most expensive part of construction other than the main SoC. How much does packing cost? How much does Apple pay for advertising? How much profit??? Should a Mac mini actually cost what Apple is selling it for?

    All that research and development thru all those years of building developing Apple Silicon and multiple ecosystems and many other things maintaining them over the years isn’t cheap and never will be if you want a cheaper solution. There’s always an Android, Microsoft, Google Chromebooks and Samsung. Apple has never been in the marketshare game (the race to the bottom).
    It’s not cheap you’re right, but Apple’s profits have ballooned much more than the relative R&D costs. 
  • Reply 16 of 18
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,312member
    MacPro said:
    The argument that Apple computers are overpriced is a tired one.  On many occasions, I have bought a PC with quality specifications similar to a Mac (well, as close as you can get), and they cost an arm and a leg. Just because cheap and nasty PCs proliferate does not equate to overpriced Macs.
    I have a Lenovo workstation (P14s) that cost more than the equivalent MBP, but I needed its particular GPU and windows for CAD software (an area where Apple is very poor).  But that is not a mainstream device, and it is annoying that I paid the big bucks for a crappy plastic machine.  

    But the point is most people don’t use those workstations, and price is a factor for most people, in fact just about all people, people like me are exceptions.

    Apple had some of the most efficient supply chains in the market, makes high quality kit, and it definitely has the highest margins. That margin protection means smaller market share, and it is clear the c-suite accept that, and the balance overall is high revenue. In fact it is a bit of chicken and egg. Want high quality, it will be expensive and if you want margins that means less market share. Or, if you want market share, accept lower margins.  Apple has gone for margins.

    this doesn’t always work. The Mac Pro, HomePod, AirPods Max, rMB are examples of market failures as they were priced too high for what they were, or so overdesigned they lost functionality to sell in any volume. 

    Sometimes that is OK for a completely amazingly high end halo device, like a Mac Pro once was over a decade ago, perhaps the iPhone pro max today. 


    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 18
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,851member
    entropys said:
    MacPro said:
    The argument that Apple computers are overpriced is a tired one.  On many occasions, I have bought a PC with quality specifications similar to a Mac (well, as close as you can get), and they cost an arm and a leg. Just because cheap and nasty PCs proliferate does not equate to overpriced Macs.
    I have a Lenovo workstation (P14s) that cost more than the equivalent MBP, but I needed its particular GPU and windows for CAD software (an area where Apple is very poor).  But that is not a mainstream device, and it is annoying that I paid the big bucks for a crappy plastic machine.  

    But the point is most people don’t use those workstations, and price is a factor for most people, in fact just about all people, people like me are exceptions.

    Apple had some of the most efficient supply chains in the market, makes high quality kit, and it definitely has the highest margins. That margin protection means smaller market share, and it is clear the c-suite accept that, and the balance overall is high revenue. In fact it is a bit of chicken and egg. Want high quality, it will be expensive and if you want margins that means less market share. Or, if you want market share, accept lower margins.  Apple has gone for margins.

    this doesn’t always work. The Mac Pro, HomePod, AirPods Max, rMB are examples of market failures as they were priced too high for what they were, or so overdesigned they lost functionality to sell in any volume. 

    Sometimes that is OK for a completely amazingly high end halo device, like a Mac Pro once was over a decade ago, perhaps the iPhone pro max today. 


    You should check out a good PC.  I have several Dell Precision Workstations with 192 GB RAM and dual Xeons.  They cost a fortune but are built like tanks.  Not all PCs are plastic, crap.  I would disagree that Mac Pros and HomePods are failures.  Apple sell less of the high end stuff just as Mercedes, Range Rover, Jaguar, BMW etc., do, it doesn't make the high end products failures when they sell in low volumes.  The current Mac Pro is an oddity I will grant you, it is either for Apple's internal use or made for fun.  It's the first Mac Pro I have not owned, ever, I went for the Studio M2 Ultra.  By the way, anyone who doesn't own an iPhone Pro Max is missing out on a great product, and, by the way, they sell like hot cakes.
    edited November 7 danoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 18
    My Mac mini "middle" 2014 is "faster!!!" or some sort of; one 1TB ssd nvme style at that time + 240GB Aura X2 pro nvme feels like 2in1 body shower gel.  ;)
    edited November 19
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