It's almost certainly PCIE on a non-standard connector, like every Mac that has actually had a slotted SSD since about 2012. However, there may be a controller on the "blade" that has special Apple firmware.
Looking at both sides of the SSD module, there is clearly no controller on the SSD board. 2 NAND chips and some supporting circuitry. A controller would be a somewhat larger chip and it's just not there.
I don't think user upgradeable for storage anyway. This was same for Mac Studio. Apple coded each storage for specific unit so user can't upgrade. Unless Apple change the way.
Except that, as the hacker community discovered, if you use new (that is, never-been-written) flash chips, you can use Apple's Configurator 2 utility to initialize them and install macOS. This will set up the cryptographic pairing. You can't wipe used flash modules (e.g. to move storage from one Mac to another), but it does means that upgrades are possible.
So far, we've just seen some people making bare circuit boards and you need the microsoldering skills necessary to attach new flash chips to those boards, but I think it's just a matter of time before someone starts selling boards with chips pre-installed. So even if end-user upgrades won't be practical, I think we will soon see independent repair shops that can do it.
The upgradable SSD is a moot point anyways. 99.9% of owners will never upgrade it nor care to.
Really? Did you take a poll to get that 99.9% figure or did you just pull that out of some dark, moist crevasse between your bum-cheeks? YOU may never do it, but don't speak for everyone else. You might use the PC market as an example as to how many people ARE interested in upgrading their SSD as the retail SSD market is HUGE.
It’ll be interesting to see if someone comes out with an aftermarket board for this. If it is indeed a standard PCIE interface it should be very possible to do so.
Unfortunately not. The security encryption would render any aftermarket board as useless. Apple made it require Apple specific boards and chips to work.
And yet, a company has Studio M1 and M2 (and soon Mac Mini M4) modules they are manufacturing. Now, I'm no insider, but I'd bet they tested these before manufacturing them and they actually work.
I’m sure that if they think it’s warranted, OWC could figure out how to do this. The law allows it, so it wouldn’t be something Apple could prevent and possibly something they wouldn’t want to prevent. There wouldn’t be millions of people wanting this, just thousands, or maybe tens of thousands. That’s nothing. The question is whether sales would be enough for OWC to make a good profit after the R&D and production costs.
the only problem would be as to whom would remove and replace the board? Most people who think they can do this really can’t. If you look at the mini tear downs, you see how many screws are involved. Possible reprogramming the chips may be involved too. Thankfully, no more glue as in some older units the past few years. So, people may have to send their mini in for this which increases the hassle and cost and adds time before you can use it.
so obviously, this can be done, but which would cost more, Apple’s upgrade to the larger SSD, or OWC’s upgrade?
I wonder if this is more for removing storage to properly destroy it so the rest can be recycled in the normal fashion at EOL v making it upgradable or fixable.
To date, Apple only replaces modules for repair service, and when they do, they will only replace your modules with the same size. They don't sell upgrades. But this is a business decision, not a technical limitation.
It's almost certainly PCIE on a non-standard connector, like every Mac that has actually had a slotted SSD since about 2012. However, there may be a controller on the "blade" that has special Apple firmware.
It's unclear what that bus is. I think it is PCIe, but it is not NVMe, because there is no SSD controller. These boards are used for connecting the raw flash chips to the SSD controller logic built-in to the Apple Silicon SoC.
Unfortunately not. The security encryption would render any aftermarket board as useless. Apple made it require Apple specific boards and chips to work.
Please go read earlier posts in the discussion thread. And note that at least one YouTuber has already performed an upgrade on the M4 mini, by replacing the flash chips (via microsoldering) on its storage module.
Apple does use custom boards for their flash storage, but these are pretty simple devices and the ones used by the Mac Studio have already been reverse-engineered by the hacker community. The flash chips used on those boards are commodity and can be purchased from many sources.
The flash chips are cryptographically paired with a Mac's processor, but the Configurator tool will create this pairing if you install completely blank (never-written) flash chips. What you can not do (at least not at this time) is completely erase a used flash module such that Configurator can pair it with a different Mac.
So an independent repair shop with suitable skills can replace/upgrade storage on an Apple Silicon Mac, but the old chips they remove can never be used with any computer other than the one they came from.
So far, it appears that there is no technical reason why an aftermarket storage upgrade board couldn't be made. You would need to initialize it via Configurator and another Mac, and I agree that most consumers won't be able to do that, but it is easily within the capability of a repair shop.
I’m sure that if they think it’s warranted, OWC could figure out how to do this. ... the only problem would be as to whom would remove and replace the board?
That's the big deal.
In addition to the work to open and physically replace the module (not too hard on the M4 mini, from what I've seen so far), you need to initialize the modules using Configurator from another Mac. And the chips must be completely blank for this to work.
This is the real problem with a company like OWC selling such a module:
They can only sell to those willing to do the work. Which, admittedly, has been the case for many of their upgrade kits.
They can only sell to someone who has another recent Mac capable of running Configurator.
They can't test the modules before shipping them, because once they write anything, Configurator will refuse to pair them with the new Mac. And returns can't be refurbished for resale. Which will make it hard to implement a reasonable warranty.
Which is why, IMO, this technique is going to remain within the realm of hobbyists and independent repair shops.
Of course, Apple could release a version of Configurator capable of wiping a used flash module, which would solve the third (and IMO, the most difficult) problem. But I doubt they will, because it would also make it possible for thieves to sell parts from stolen Macs.
Pretty funny how you all want to keep arguing over a hypothetical “OWC” drive, when there is in fact another company that is actually offering storage upgrades for sale right now.
For the Mac Studio currently, for the Mini in the near future. Who cares if OWC isn’t interested, as long as PolySoft is?
And the number of backers on their Kickstarter campaign is a useful metric for how much consumer interest there may or may not be.
Speaking for myself, I bought my Mac Studio in 2022 with the amount of storage that I wanted, as no other options existed then. However now that this potential solution is out there, the next Mac Mini or Studio that I buy, I personally would consider this upgrade route instead. The main drawback to me is the hassle of opening up the case and putting it back together neatly enough.
The new 2024 Mac mini still has soldered-in RAM, as is the new norm
with the Unified Memory architecture, but the SSD can be swapped out,
and we have successfully upgraded a 256GB drive to a 512GB with no
issues using the Apple Configurator tool. We also successfully swapped like-for-like 256GB drives between two base models.
Hold up: this is a big deal! The bigger Mac Studio also had
physically modular storage, but no form of replacement or upgrade
software solution. Back in 2022, we weren’t able to make the transplant work.
Several combinations of drives in the Mac Studio’s two available SSD
slots resulted in a non-booting computer, and running Apple Configurator
didn’t make a difference. So we breathed a sigh of slightly-surprised
relief when this swap went off without a hitch.
If iFixit was able to swap modules between two M4 minis, that strongly implies that my third concern (no ability to test an aftermarket module prior to installation and no way to refurbish a returned module) is not a concern for this computer.
Pretty funny how you all want to keep arguing over a hypothetical “OWC” drive, when there is in fact another company that is actually offering storage upgrades for sale right now.
For the Mac Studio currently, for the Mini in the near future. Who cares if OWC isn’t interested, as long as PolySoft is?
And the number of backers on their Kickstarter campaign is a useful metric for how much consumer interest there may or may not be.
Speaking for myself, I bought my Mac Studio in 2022 with the amount of storage that I wanted, as no other options existed then. However now that this potential solution is out there, the next Mac Mini or Studio that I buy, I personally would consider this upgrade route instead. The main drawback to me is the hassle of opening up the case and putting it back together neatly enough.
I would advise people to not put money into this until after the product is released and reviewed. I’ve invested in seven Kickstarter projects over the years. Three never had a product come out and two of the four that did weren’t very good. The other two were fine. This isn’t worth the risk.
the reality is that it’s not a big deal. Tiny, fast enough external ssds aren't expensive any more. Just get one and plug it into the rear. People are making more of this than it’s worth.
I don't think user upgradeable for storage anyway. This was same for Mac Studio. Apple coded each storage for specific unit so user can't upgrade. Unless Apple change the way.
Except that, as the hacker community discovered, if you use new (that is, never-been-written) flash chips, you can use Apple's Configurator 2 utility to initialize them and install macOS. This will set up the cryptographic pairing. You can't wipe used flash modules (e.g. to move storage from one Mac to another), but it does means that upgrades are possible.
So far, we've just seen some people making bare circuit boards and you need the microsoldering skills necessary to attach new flash chips to those boards, but I think it's just a matter of time before someone starts selling boards with chips pre-installed. So even if end-user upgrades won't be practical, I think we will soon see independent repair shops that can do it.
The upgradable SSD is a moot point anyways. 99.9% of owners will never upgrade it nor care to.
Really? Did you take a poll to get that 99.9% figure or did you just pull that out of some dark, moist crevasse between your bum-cheeks? YOU may never do it, but don't speak for everyone else. You might use the PC market as an example as to how many people ARE interested in upgrading their SSD as the retail SSD market is HUGE.
Well, 99.9% of users don’t upgrade because it’s next to impossible to do so. Macxpress is using faulty logic to make a point.
I don't think user upgradeable for storage anyway. This was same for Mac Studio. Apple coded each storage for specific unit so user can't upgrade. Unless Apple change the way.
Except that, as the hacker community discovered, if you use new (that is, never-been-written) flash chips, you can use Apple's Configurator 2 utility to initialize them and install macOS. This will set up the cryptographic pairing. You can't wipe used flash modules (e.g. to move storage from one Mac to another), but it does means that upgrades are possible.
So far, we've just seen some people making bare circuit boards and you need the microsoldering skills necessary to attach new flash chips to those boards, but I think it's just a matter of time before someone starts selling boards with chips pre-installed. So even if end-user upgrades won't be practical, I think we will soon see independent repair shops that can do it.
The upgradable SSD is a moot point anyways. 99.9% of owners will never upgrade it nor care to.
Really? Did you take a poll to get that 99.9% figure or did you just pull that out of some dark, moist crevasse between your bum-cheeks? YOU may never do it, but don't speak for everyone else. You might use the PC market as an example as to how many people ARE interested in upgrading their SSD as the retail SSD market is HUGE.
Well, 99.9% of users don’t upgrade because it’s next to impossible to do so. Macxpress is using faulty logic to make a point.
1) I have no idea what the actual percentage is, but I do seem to recall back when Apple had removable HDDs and RAM that very few consumes were upgrading their specs.
2) Personally, I'd love to be able to have everything modular in my MacBook Pro (which simply isn't a realistic request), but I also want the least expensive, smallest, lightest, fastest, and overall best Mac experience possible, which means I'm overall happier with the M-series Macs today than I am with my old PowerBooks, iBooks, Performa, etc.
I don't think user upgradeable for storage anyway. This was same for Mac Studio. Apple coded each storage for specific unit so user can't upgrade. Unless Apple change the way.
Except that, as the hacker community discovered, if you use new (that is, never-been-written) flash chips, you can use Apple's Configurator 2 utility to initialize them and install macOS. This will set up the cryptographic pairing. You can't wipe used flash modules (e.g. to move storage from one Mac to another), but it does means that upgrades are possible.
So far, we've just seen some people making bare circuit boards and you need the microsoldering skills necessary to attach new flash chips to those boards, but I think it's just a matter of time before someone starts selling boards with chips pre-installed. So even if end-user upgrades won't be practical, I think we will soon see independent repair shops that can do it.
The upgradable SSD is a moot point anyways. 99.9% of owners will never upgrade it nor care to.
Really? Did you take a poll to get that 99.9% figure or did you just pull that out of some dark, moist crevasse between your bum-cheeks? YOU may never do it, but don't speak for everyone else. You might use the PC market as an example as to how many people ARE interested in upgrading their SSD as the retail SSD market is HUGE.
Well, 99.9% of users don’t upgrade because it’s next to impossible to do so. Macxpress is using faulty logic to make a point.
1) I have no idea what the actual percentage is, but I do seem to recall back when Apple had removable HDDs and RAM that very few consumes were upgrading their specs.
2) Personally, I'd love to be able to have everything modular in my MacBook Pro (which simply isn't a realistic request), but I also want the least expensive, smallest, lightest, fastest, and overall best Mac experience possible, which means I'm overall happier with the M-series Macs today than I am with my old PowerBooks, iBooks, Performa, etc.
Back in the “good old days” I had friends who would build their own PCs, something I stopped doing about 40 years ago. They would always buy the biggest boxes, maybe 10 or even with 12 slots “for upgrades”. They would put a modem in one - and that was it! The reality is that the build it yourself market these days is maybe one percent, possibly less. The market for these who upgrade their RAM and storage is higher. But even these are just a small percentage. The truth is that modern computers offer everything you need. I find it funny that an upgradable computer used to mean lots of those pesky slots and boards to do everything. But most people buy computers and this goes for Windows as well as Mac’s, that at most allow RAM and SSD upgrades.
boy, years ago, those would be considered not upgradable at all. About the only people who build their own machines these days are extreme gamers. Making a machine upgradable also makes it more expensive. People don’t think about that. It has to be bigger. Have a bigger power supply, circuit board with slots, bypass caps, etc. so pay about 50% more out of the box for something minorly upgradable, or twice as much for something heavily upgradable.
apple’s M chips simply make upgrading difficult, but have enough advantages so that upgrading isn’t as important. Really, if you buy something and j tend to keep it for years, then upfront cost isn’t as important. Look to yearly cost. A $2,000 machine seems fairly expensive, but it’s inly $200 a year if you keep it for five years, a fair expectation with current machines. That’s not much.
The Mac mini at its price point and power levels is a mass market machine.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a market open up taking advantage of this exact slot configuration, whether an adapter or a unique lineup of aftermarket drives.
Big ups aide potential.
Hope it reaches the level of the Hair Dryers.
There are some hair dryers that cost almost as much as a base Mini.
Comments
Just buy Thunderbolt storage. You are not qualified to do this.
the only problem would be as to whom would remove and replace the board? Most people who think they can do this really can’t. If you look at the mini tear downs, you see how many screws are involved. Possible reprogramming the chips may be involved too. Thankfully, no more glue as in some older units the past few years. So, people may have to send their mini in for this which increases the hassle and cost and adds time before you can use it.
so obviously, this can be done, but which would cost more, Apple’s upgrade to the larger SSD, or OWC’s upgrade?
It's unclear what that bus is. I think it is PCIe, but it is not NVMe, because there is no SSD controller. These boards are used for connecting the raw flash chips to the SSD controller logic built-in to the Apple Silicon SoC.
For the Mac Studio currently, for the Mini in the near future. Who cares if OWC isn’t interested, as long as PolySoft is?
And the number of backers on their Kickstarter campaign is a useful metric for how much consumer interest there may or may not be.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/polysoftservices/studio-drive/posts/4247624 ;
Speaking for myself, I bought my Mac Studio in 2022 with the amount of storage that I wanted, as no other options existed then. However now that this potential solution is out there, the next Mac Mini or Studio that I buy, I personally would consider this upgrade route instead. The main drawback to me is the hassle of opening up the case and putting it back together neatly enough.
the reality is that it’s not a big deal. Tiny, fast enough external ssds aren't expensive any more. Just get one and plug it into the rear. People are making more of this than it’s worth.
2) Personally, I'd love to be able to have everything modular in my MacBook Pro (which simply isn't a realistic request), but I also want the least expensive, smallest, lightest, fastest, and overall best Mac experience possible, which means I'm overall happier with the M-series Macs today than I am with my old PowerBooks, iBooks, Performa, etc.
boy, years ago, those would be considered not upgradable at all. About the only people who build their own machines these days are extreme gamers. Making a machine upgradable also makes it more expensive. People don’t think about that. It has to be bigger. Have a bigger power supply, circuit board with slots, bypass caps, etc. so pay about 50% more out of the box for something minorly upgradable, or twice as much for something heavily upgradable.
apple’s M chips simply make upgrading difficult, but have enough advantages so that upgrading isn’t as important. Really, if you buy something and j tend to keep it for years, then upfront cost isn’t as important. Look to yearly cost. A $2,000 machine seems fairly expensive, but it’s inly $200 a year if you keep it for five years, a fair expectation with current machines. That’s not much.