Really, Apple and Google should just tell the EU to piss off and buy Nokia phones running Symbian.
Google is compliant and so is Amazon. Companies can't limit sales to part of the EU Single Market.
Why do we keep getting the same kind of articles and reactions on everything EU? Would be nice if those not getting the Single Market or EU did a bit of reading before hitting the keyboard.
the single market eu is a beatifull dream that is far from reality, the different states are more moving in the other direction, as mentioned before the eu isn't in anyway working towards a single vat, dividing more than getting together. the uk totally went out, austria, denmarken, germany and holland rebuilded their borders, how do you mean single market? (Amazon is blocking sales based on location, I don't know about google and I'm not sure that telling the eu to piss off is a solution to the problem)
Yes this isn’t actually about Apple so much, as the EU project. The ultimate aim of the EU Bureaucrats is to replace sovereign governments altogether, rule the whole of Europe from Brussels. That they aren’t consistent in their approach is no surprise. Because bureaucrats, not business operators.
So, demand Individual country app stores to stop companies like Apple from selling to all of Europe from tax friendly Ireland. Then, oops, some apps are available in some countries but not in others because copyright issues or local laws! Oh, and worse, the biggest Problem is the little euro guys don’t bother selling products in their neighbouring countries, or end up charging more in them because of the multiple regulatory and other costs of setting up separate businesses in each country have to be covered. They do not have the resources to cover them otherwise.
What’s a eurocrat to do? Oh, they know, let’s penalise companies for doing what we effectively forced them to do.
Ultimately of course, this kind of CF will encourage the transfer of power from internal countries to the EU. Exactly what the Eurocrats want.
Apple does accept PayPal as a payment method in App Store making this a very odd limitation. Amazon, Google, United, Delta, Amtrak, and so many more US companies do accept that the credit card and the country of the site don't match. This is the first time I wanted Apple to behave a bit more like Amtrak.
Apple accepts PayPal on their website, apparently not in their apps, and they only accept PayPal as payment on certain items, not on everything they sell. Yes, it's very odd that they make this type of limitation. Most companies are happy to take your money so long as doing so doesn't violate some law, regulation, or isn't going to get them sued for some reason. Given the lengths they go to I assume Apple has some reason that makes sense to them. In essentially all other cases I see Apple seems to be more than happy to take as much money from people as they can.
To be honest I don't get what Mr. Gallagher is really talking about here in terms of his complaints, assuming we're talking about functionality within the EU:
1. Use the same interface as in other countries -- Given how people travel this seems like a reasonable design request, why should the functionality of the device change as one moves around. I can understand why the interface may have to change as the language changes or for local customs and the like, but going beyond that seems like bad UI design.
2. Use Credit Cards registered in different countries -- as I said above, this has never made sense to me from a business standpoint.
3. Download apps not available in their home country -- This is such a trivial thing for users to get around (though I will admit something of a PIA to do) that I don't understand why Apple puts this type of limitation in place at all.
There are many things that people complain about with regards to Apple that are, in my opinion, ridiculous. But these three requests by the EU actually seem pretty tame and not really bad business decisions either. In fact I think the EU missed one -- stop geofencing Apple Accounts themselves.
Oh well, on the other hand, I assume I must be the one missing something.
Much as I disagree with their App Store nonsense in recent years (and I'm a developer) what I can say about this article is that the person who has written it has no understanding about what the EU is or what the EU is referring to on this matter. As a number of people on here have already pointed out. It has always confused me as to why people in this SINGLE MARKET are being segregated into 27 different App Stores / iTunes stores when we are free to travel, live, work, and shop anywhere in the EU. It's just a pain and it discourages me from making purchases of music, movies, TV shows, and non-essential Apps in fear I do move soon to another state as it is a plan I have.
EDIT: I should also add they are by no means the only company guilty of this.
If I travel to a country in Europe and want to use a local app while I am there but I can’t since I an from the USA. I hope this can be addressed. This can be downloading a app to by public transportation tickets or some other local app.
Apple requires that the country of origin of the Apple Account and the billing address of the credit card used for purchases run through Apple's billing system must be identical to the country of the Apple or App Store in use.
Apple does accept PayPal as a payment method in App Store making this a very odd limitation. Amazon, Google, United, Delta, Amtrak, and so many more US companies do accept that the credit card and the country of the site don't match. This is the first time I wanted Apple to behave a bit more like Amtrak.
AFAIK, Apple do not accept any other form of payments in their App Store, except an iTunes account. Now one can fund their iTunes account using PayPal or a CC, your bank account or gift cards. But none of these can be used for payment in the App Store. You can't even use an Apple Card. If PayPal could be used for payment in the Apple App Store, then Epic Games could not had claim that Apple has a "monopoly" in their Apple App Store payment system.
But you are actually comparing apple to oranges when comparing Apple iTunes payment to that of Amazon, United, Delta, Amtrak and many more. When you use your CC to fund your iTunes account, your CC is only charged when you make a purchase. Therefore, your CC must have the same billing address as your iTunes Account. With the others, you are billed as soon as you make the purchase.
It's the billing address on your iTunes account that has to match your CC, not the country of where the CC was issued. If you could get a bank in another country to issue you a CC using your US billing address, then I see no problem with Apple allowing you to open an iTunes account with that CC. Or one can open another iTunes account using another CC. Some do this to separate business purchases from personal purchases.
And really, how is this any different than many online retailers requiring that the shipping address must be the same as the billing address (on the CC), in order to cut down on CC fraud?
And how about this. In the US, there is no VAT on app purchases. (Though there might be 0% to 10% State sales tax depending on the billing address on the iTunes account.) Now if Apple were to allow any CC to be used (in iTunes account) when paying for apps, then what is preventing some one in Spain from avoiding paying the 21% VAT on app purchases, by opening an iTunes account using a US issued CC? Here in CA, we pay 0% sales tax on apps.
Much as I disagree with their App Store nonsense in recent years (and I'm a developer) what I can say about this article is that the person who has written it has no understanding about what the EU is or what the EU is referring to on this matter. As a number of people on here have already pointed out. It has always confused me as to why people in this SINGLE MARKET are being segregated into 27 different App Stores / iTunes stores when we are free to travel, live, work, and shop anywhere in the EU. It's just a pain and it discourages me from making purchases of music, movies, TV shows, and non-essential Apps in fear I do move soon to another state as it is a plan I have.
EDIT: I should also add they are by no means the only company guilty of this.
AFAIK, it's the developers that decides what countries their apps are available. If the developers check all the countries in the EU, then their apps will appear in all the various EU Apple App Stores. Apple is not the one limiting apps to certain countries Apple App Stores. Apple is only using geo-blocking to limit the availability of apps in certain EU countries based on what the developers wants. And there are reasons why a developer might not want to have their apps available in all EU countries. Language being one of them. If a developer develop an app in German for Germany, are they forced to also make it available in the other 26 EU countries in French, Spanish, English, Italian, Greek, Polish and so on? As an EU citizen freely traveling about the countries in the EU, are you forced to learn all the languages in the various countries you visit? Developer might need to know the languages for all the countries they develop their apps for. Even if they are not in the EU.
BTW- A ..... SINGLE MARKET... is not the same as a single country. For financial reporting, Apple consider N. America (US, Canada and Mexico) a single market. And the EU is part of Europe, which Apple consider a single market. Apple developers are free to develop for a single country.
What this means is that there needs to be a single distribution license for the entire EU, NOT that EU citizens must have access to the same distribution deals as residents of countries outside the EU.
The answer to that is, „Wait, this isn‘t the case already? Why the hell not?“
I don’t understand the point of this article — it feels like it’s arguing against something that isn’t even on the table.
If I’m misunderstanding, somebody please enlighten me.
Completely agree here. This was a hastily written article that does not attempt to understand or articulate the nuance in what the EU Commission is saying. This is about letting EU citizens travel anywhere within the EU without being geo-fenced by Apple. EU citizens, it should be noted, can travel anywhere within the EU without a passport, using a common currency among many other shared benefits and policies. Imagine if Apple geo-fenced people who created their Apple Account in Alaska so that if they traveled to Texas they wouldn't be able to see half of their music. The US would regulate them to stop that behavior (and rightly so). That is what this is about, it's just countries in the EU rather than states in the US. It has nothing to do with anyone outside of the EU, or how Apple treats EU citizens while they are outside of the EU.
My advice to AppleInsider? Stick to reporting about rumors, news, hardware and software reviews, etc., and abort these opinion pieces. While one would expect them to have a pro-Apple slant, the analysis is poor and authors come across as bratty, entitled toddlers who don't actually know anything about the topic other than that it is a reason to kick and scream because a big meanie is trying to antagonize Apple.
This is the dumbest article I have ever read here, and I've been reading Appleinsider for almost 20 years.
The EU isn't asking for Apple to change the AppStore internationally.
It's not even asking Apple to offer all apps to all EU citizens all the time. It's asking that the AppStore offers apps from a specific country when a user is in that country, no matter which country within the EU the user is from.
Deeper than licensing issues, EU countries each have their own laws. The material that is acceptable in Paris or Amsterdam is very different than what is legal in Poland or Hungary. Demanding that Apple, or anyone have one standard that applies to all of the EU simply means that the most repressive, reactionary, governments in the EU get to set the standards all EU citizens must live under. I’m pretty sure that’s NOT what the EU wants.
Oh wow thank you genius, no one thought about that before!!
No, in the real world, harmonization between EU countries has been in place for the past 30+ years.
Imagine if Apple geo-fenced people who created their Apple Account in Alaska so that if they traveled to Texas they wouldn't be able to see half of their music. The US would regulate them to stop that behavior (and rightly so). That is what this is about, it's just countries in the EU rather than states in the US.
That might be the most ridiculous comparison I've ever read. Comparing states within a single country to various countries within an economic union is an oversimplification of the nuanced national laws each country in the EU may have. In the US, interstate commerce is regulated by the Federal Government; there is one single framework. The States do not have the ability to regulate purchases made outside of their respective jurisdictions. While the EU may provide for a common currency, and the fabulous gifts
Margrethe Vestager bestows upon business, each EU member still has their
own laws and regulations to comply. There's a reason Apple has it's European headquarters in Ireland, an EU member: the laws are more favorable. The EU would rather you ignore that basic fact.
Imagine if Apple geo-fenced people who created their Apple Account in Alaska so that if they traveled to Texas they wouldn't be able to see half of their music. The US would regulate them to stop that behavior (and rightly so). That is what this is about, it's just countries in the EU rather than states in the US.
That might be the most ridiculous comparison I've ever read. Comparing states within a single country to various countries within an economic union is an oversimplification of the nuanced national laws each country in the EU may have. In the US, interstate commerce is regulated by the Federal Government; there is one single framework. The States do not have the ability to regulate purchases made outside of their respective jurisdictions. While the EU may provide for a common currency, and the fabulous gifts
Margrethe Vestager bestows upon business, each EU member still has their
own laws and regulations to comply. There's a reason Apple has it's European headquarters in Ireland, an EU member: the laws are more favorable. The EU would rather you ignore that basic fact.
Errrr…does the concept of a "Common Market" ring a bell?
It's kind of central to the whole idea of the European Union.
I also rather enjoy how you single out Apple's Ireland HQ — in complete ignorance of how that backfired, spectacularly, to the tune of some $14 billion, because the Irish regulations were found to be in violation of the EU law governing exactly the the unified regulation you claim does not exist.
Apple requires that the country of origin of the Apple Account and the billing address of the credit card used for purchases run through Apple's billing system must be identical to the country of the Apple or App Store in use.
Apple does accept PayPal as a payment method in App Store making this a very odd limitation. Amazon, Google, United, Delta, Amtrak, and so many more US companies do accept that the credit card and the country of the site don't match. This is the first time I wanted Apple to behave a bit more like Amtrak.
AFAIK, Apple do not accept any other form of payments in their App Store
Apple requires that the country of origin of the Apple Account and the billing address of the credit card used for purchases run through Apple's billing system must be identical to the country of the Apple or App Store in use.
Apple does accept PayPal as a payment method in App Store making this a very odd limitation. Amazon, Google, United, Delta, Amtrak, and so many more US companies do accept that the credit card and the country of the site don't match. This is the first time I wanted Apple to behave a bit more like Amtrak.
I don't have a PayPal option here in NZ so that's not entirely a good argument
Apple requires that the country of origin of the Apple Account and the billing address of the credit card used for purchases run through Apple's billing system must be identical to the country of the Apple or App Store in use.
Apple does accept PayPal as a payment method in App Store making this a very odd limitation. Amazon, Google, United, Delta, Amtrak, and so many more US companies do accept that the credit card and the country of the site don't match. This is the first time I wanted Apple to behave a bit more like Amtrak.
I don't have a PayPal option here in NZ so that's not entirely a good argument
We're talking EU and you complain about my arguments due to the situation in NZ. Weird.
Imagine if Apple geo-fenced people who created their Apple Account in Alaska so that if they traveled to Texas they wouldn't be able to see half of their music. The US would regulate them to stop that behavior (and rightly so). That is what this is about, it's just countries in the EU rather than states in the US.
That might be the most ridiculous comparison I've ever read. Comparing states within a single country to various countries within an economic union is an oversimplification of the nuanced national laws each country in the EU may have. In the US, interstate commerce is regulated by the Federal Government; there is one single framework. The States do not have the ability to regulate purchases made outside of their respective jurisdictions. While the EU may provide for a common currency, and the fabulous gifts
Margrethe Vestager bestows upon business, each EU member still has their
own laws and regulations to comply. There's a reason Apple has it's European headquarters in Ireland, an EU member: the laws are more favorable. The EU would rather you ignore that basic fact.
Errrr…does the concept of a "Common Market" ring a bell?
It's kind of central to the whole idea of the European Union.
I also rather enjoy how you single out Apple's Ireland HQ — in complete ignorance of how that backfired, spectacularly, to the tune of some $14 billion, because the Irish regulations were found to be in violation of the EU law governing exactly the the unified regulation you claim does not exist.
And there are reasons why a developer might not want to have their apps available in all EU countries. Language being one of them. If a developer develop an app in German for Germany, are they forced to also make it available in the other 26 EU countries in French, Spanish, English, Italian, Greek, Polish and so on? As an EU citizen freely traveling about the countries in the EU, are you forced to learn all the languages in the various countries you visit? Developer might need to know the languages for all the countries they develop their apps for. Even if they are not in the EU.
(DE) Viele in Europa kennen mehrere Sprachen. (IE) Má tá cuairt á tabhairt agat ar thír is dócha go mbeidh tú in ann a dteanga a labhairt freisin. (ES) Incluso si no lo logra, puede que todavía necesite tomar el autobús o el tranvía. (FR) Vous ne voulez pas changer votre comté de résidence avec votre compte Apple juste pour de courtes vacances. (EN) So even if available in one language your app should still be available to everyone, it's just logical. (UK) Слава Україні!
BTW- A ..... SINGLE MARKET... is not the same as a single country. For financial reporting, Apple consider N. America (US, Canada and Mexico) a single market. And the EU is part of Europe, which Apple consider a single market. Apple developers are free to develop for a single country.
People in the EU can travel passport free, reside, work, trade, vote, anywhere in the EU, no border checks, no visas, no limits. That is not the case between the USA, Canada, and Mexico. The USA is literally putting walls up because they think that stops aeroplanes crossing the border ߤ禺wj;♂️ You evidently don't have an understanding of what the EU is, which is fine, but if you have an interest in it please do a little reading about it.
Apple requires that the country of origin of the Apple Account and the billing address of the credit card used for purchases run through Apple's billing system must be identical to the country of the Apple or App Store in use.
Apple does accept PayPal as a payment method in App Store making this a very odd limitation. Amazon, Google, United, Delta, Amtrak, and so many more US companies do accept that the credit card and the country of the site don't match. This is the first time I wanted Apple to behave a bit more like Amtrak.
AFAIK, Apple do not accept any other form of payments in their App Store
No, you are misunderstanding what is being stated in your link.
What Apple is saying is that you a can use PayPal, a CC, your Bank account or gift cards to fund your iTunes account. You can only use an iTunes account to pay for apps in the Apple App Store. When you use PayPal to fund your iTunes account, payment is made to Apple, NOT to the developers you purchase the apps from. The same if you use a CC to fund your iTunes account. When you pay for an app using your CC funded iTunes account, it's Apple that shows you on your CC bill, not the developer that you purchased the app from.
I for one fund my iTunes account balance using iTunes gift cards that I often buy at 5-10% discount. This does not mean that I can use Apple gift cards to pay for apps in the Apple App Store. I must still use my iTunes account, (that is funded with gift cards) to pay for the apps.
Your first clue should had been the heading (in your link)....
Payment methods that you can use with your Apple Account
Notice that it says .... use with your Apple Account. Not ...... use in the Apple App Store.
But yes, theoretically, if you fund your iTunes account using PayPal, you are using PayPal to pay for your app purchases in the Apple App Store. Even if that's not what the developers sees. And try to explain that to that looney Epic Games CEO Sweeney, who sued Apple for abusing their App Store "monopoly" because an iTunes account is the only way to pay for apps in the Apple App Store.
The ignorance in this article, and in some of the offended comments by non EU citizens is staggering.
The EU is a single market, it has a single currency for most of its member countries since 25 years, and services must be delivered without borders. This applies to all companies that do business in the EU. I can buy a refurbished Mac in Germany and enjoy the warranty in France. It is inacceptable that Apple continues to prevent people who move between two EU countries to close down their existing account and open a new one, at the risk of losing their on-going subscriptions.
It is unlawful that although I managed to change my payment methods from a Belgian credit card to a French one after moving, that I can’t access the French App Store, where I need to find some banking apps not available on other stores. Etc.
Apple has had decades to comply with the EU Directives, so stop all these crocodile tears and get to work!
Comments
To be honest I don't get what Mr. Gallagher is really talking about here in terms of his complaints, assuming we're talking about functionality within the EU:
1. Use the same interface as in other countries -- Given how people travel this seems like a reasonable design request, why should the functionality of the device change as one moves around. I can understand why the interface may have to change as the language changes or for local customs and the like, but going beyond that seems like bad UI design.
2. Use Credit Cards registered in different countries -- as I said above, this has never made sense to me from a business standpoint.
3. Download apps not available in their home country -- This is such a trivial thing for users to get around (though I will admit something of a PIA to do) that I don't understand why Apple puts this type of limitation in place at all.
There are many things that people complain about with regards to Apple that are, in my opinion, ridiculous. But these three requests by the EU actually seem pretty tame and not really bad business decisions either. In fact I think the EU missed one -- stop geofencing Apple Accounts themselves.
Oh well, on the other hand, I assume I must be the one missing something.
EDIT: I should also add they are by no means the only company guilty of this.
👌
The EU isn't asking for Apple to change the AppStore internationally.
It's not even asking Apple to offer all apps to all EU citizens all the time. It's asking that the AppStore offers apps from a specific country when a user is in that country, no matter which country within the EU the user is from.
No, in the real world, harmonization between EU countries has been in place for the past 30+ years.
I also rather enjoy how you single out Apple's Ireland HQ — in complete ignorance of how that backfired, spectacularly, to the tune of some $14 billion, because the Irish regulations were found to be in violation of the EU law governing exactly the the unified regulation you claim does not exist.
(DE) Viele in Europa kennen mehrere Sprachen. (IE) Má tá cuairt á tabhairt agat ar thír is dócha go mbeidh tú in ann a dteanga a labhairt freisin. (ES) Incluso si no lo logra, puede que todavía necesite tomar el autobús o el tranvía. (FR) Vous ne voulez pas changer votre comté de résidence avec votre compte Apple juste pour de courtes vacances. (EN) So even if available in one language your app should still be available to everyone, it's just logical. (UK) Слава Україні!
Payment methods that you can use with your Apple Account
Calm down Yankees, what the article is saying is not what the EU is asking for at all.