Lawsuit complaining about Apple's free 5GB iCloud plan is dismissed

Posted:
in General Discussion

A potential class-action lawsuit alleging that Apple tricked users into having to pay for iCloud is probably now completely dead, having lost an appeal before the Ninth Circuit.

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Judges have not said Apple's 5GB free iCloud space is good or bad, the plaintiffs just haven't made their case



The case centered on the claim that it is "virtually impossible" for a user's requirements to be satisfied with the 5GB tier, and that it was effectively impossible for users to reduce their iCloud use. However, as noted by Law360, two of the plaintiffs were reportedly still on the 5GB tier.

Three Ninth Circuit judges considered the appeal, but said the plaintiffs had failed to prove their claims. The judges also noted that users have the option to turn off iCloud if they wish.

The case was originally dismissed on similar grounds in 2022 by Judge Haywood S. Gilliam Jr, of the US District Court for the Northern District of California. At that time, the judge rejected claims that Apple intentionally misled consumers over iCloud fees, although he allowed that the plaintiffs could amend their complaint.

It's not clear whether they did, but the plaintiffs did take the decision to appeal. They may yet do so again, but this time their only option would be the Supreme Court, which is unlikely to hear their case.

So Apple won this one, but it is still facing similar cases regarding iCloud. The UK's 'Which?' consumer group announced in November 2024 that it was filing suit with the aim of getting a $4 billion payout for "rip-off" iCloud prices.



Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    Hilarious!  Users mad that Apple gave them something very useful, but that they have to pay for more if they want to use more.

    i find iCloud extremely useful.  I can carry my data with me without extra hard drives with me.  All I need is wifi.  
    baconstangbadmonkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 15
    We pay ten bucks a month to quietly and smoothly backup and sync our devices.

    The devices cost thousands and the data is priceless.

    I feel so tricked.
    lotonesbaconstangbadmonkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 15
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,162member
    I save hundreds when I buy an iPhone with minimal storage, then have to 'cough up' a whole $5 a month for iCloud storage.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 15
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,463member
    First off, suing Apple over this is stupid.  It should be immediately thrown out of court.  I hate suing of any kind, so it's no surprise I say this.  People in the USA sue way too much.  Take the slap in the face, then turn the other cheek, for crying out loud.  Suing has gotten so bad that "lawfare" has become a word in politics now.  It's totally outrageous and unacceptable.

    With that said, no Apple fan in their right mind should defend the status quo on that ridiculously small and pretty much worthless 5GB of storage.  If you do defend 5GB as being all anyone needs, you might as well defend 128K of RAM as being enough because... hey...  In January 1984, Apple said that was good enough!  You Cupertino Worshippers tend to worship whatever is the norm in Cupertino at any given time, so it makes sense you would do that.  

    But real thinkers like Jason Snell of Macworld has analyzed the matter very nicely as follows:
    Take iCloud storage, for instance. The existing 5GB of cloud storage that’s granted to users for free is insufficient for most users for backup, especially if they have more than one device. I don’t dispute Apple’s need to charge for storage, but a reasonable amount of storage should be supplied for free as a thank-you for purchasing a new Apple device. The 5GB limit causes people to be prompted with scary “failed to backup” errors that immediately turn into a conversion attempt to a larger, paid iCloud storage account. It’s one of the places where it feels like Apple is prioritizing revenue over the user experience. I don’t want to imagine a world where that’s the norm, and my iPhone becomes a device that constantly asks me to pony up for another extra feature because the product wasn’t good enough to begin with.
    SOURCE

    Snell is 100% right on that.  A "thank you" for buying a new device really is logical and reasonable.  In other articles, Snell has rightfully suggested that if Apple want's to keep the 5GB magic number, go right ahead.  Just give us 5GB for each new device we buy.  So if I buy an iPhone, I get 5GB.  If I buy a Mac, I get another 5GB, bringing it up to 10GB.  If I then buy a third Mac, give me another 5GB.  Maybe impose some limits, but you get the picture.  Right now, you get only 5GB no matter how much Apple stuff you buy, which makes no sense at all.  

    And no, Cupertino Worshippers, Apple wouldn't lose a darned dime in doing that because some people would still need more than 10 or 15GB to storage all their photos online, making online backups, etc.  Meaning, people would still buy supplementary iCloud storage.  But people who opt to not buy it could then have enough free storage to do the most basic things.

    I myself refuse to pay for iCloud storage.  What I do when that stupid 5GB gets low is turn off things that use it.  Backup?  OFF!  Photos?  OFF!  And then anything else.  Sorry, but I won't be strong-armed into buying storage that I either cannot afford to buy or don't want to buy.

    But like I said, even though that stupidly small 5GB pisses me off (mainly because it has never been increased after all these years), I would never sue Apple because that is even more stupid.  Complaining about it, or even screaming about it online thought is perfectly OK.  And sending Apple tons of FEEDBACK about it is also not only OK, but the right thing to do.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 5 of 15
    XedXed Posts: 2,911member
    jdw said:
    A "thank you" for buying a new device really is logical and reasonable.  In other articles, Snell has rightfully suggested that if Apple want's to keep the 5GB magic number, go right ahead.  Just give us 5GB for each new device we buy.  So if I buy an iPhone, I get 5GB.  If I buy a Mac, I get another 5GB, bringing it up to 10GB.  If I then buy a third Mac, give me another 5GB.  Maybe impose some limits, but you get the picture.  Right now, you get only 5GB no matter how much Apple stuff you buy, which makes no sense at all. 

    And no, Cupertino Worshippers, Apple wouldn't lose a darned dime in doing that because some people would still need more than 10 or 15GB to storage all their photos online, making online backups, etc.  Meaning, people would still buy supplementary iCloud storage.  But people who opt to not buy it could then have enough free storage to do the most basic things.
    1) How exactly would that work? Let's say that I buy a new iPhone, Watch, iPad, and Mac every year so I would have 25 GB — 5 GB + (4 x 5 GB) — the first year, and then the next year have 45 GB, then 65 GB, and so one simply because I bought a device? What if I bought a device for someone else? If this is based on using your Apple ID then could I buy a device, add my Apple ID, and then stop using the device? What about simply finding old devices that I'd never want to use but keep adding them as authorized devices simply to add more cloud storage?

    2) You're correct that Apple wouldn't lose "a darned dime"... they'd lose countless millions and eventually billions. Some people still buying additional data doesn't mean that they aren't missing out on sales. While I don't really expect you to have thought through how this might work like I quickly detailed in the first part of my reply, I would've at least expected you to at least realize that Apple would lose revenue.

    3) It's laughable, at best to claim that a company needs to thank you for making a purchase. Are you such a fanboy that you don't need or want the device, but are doing it to help them out?  Companies often do say "thank you" but it's all marketing. The transaction is all that matters in a free market. You agree to buy something at a certain price and you get that item or service in return with a reasonable expectation of how it will function. That's the agreement. That's the exchange. You saying that Apple owes you more than what was agreed is about as entitled as it gets. If you don't think a company is giving you enough value for your purchase then choose a different product. It's that simple.

    4) Personally, I think iCloud's free tier isn't very competitive so I've created other ways in which to benefit from having iCloud without giving Apple an extra dime. That's how I vote, not with crying that Apple needs to be thank me for using their devices. 
    edited December 2024 thtwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 15
    This is what extreme privilege looks like. “You’re not giving me enough of the free thing so I’m going to sue you for more free thing.”

    It becomes normalized to have something amazing so when things aren’t absolutely amazing, people think they're being cheated.

    People need to grow up and get over themselves.
    zeus423watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 15
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,463member
    The only thing laughable is your stance, Xed, which basically just defends the status quo, hence "Cupertino Worshipper" would appear a fitting category for you.

    Even more laughable is your lack of knowledge that this has been talked about for a very long time by people far more influential in tech than me.  John Gruber had this to say way back in 2018 about that paltry 5GB:
    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2018/08/01/iphone-x-snell

    End users have asked for 5GB "per device" even on Apple's own forum:
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3893391?sortBy=rank

    Back in 2021 9to5Mac asked if Apple would every increase the base storage:
    https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/02/a-decade-of-5-gb-free-will-apple-ever-increase-base-icloud-storage/

    So there's really nothing further I need to add.  Your single vote as a Cupertino Status Quo Worshipper is outnumbered by sensible users.  Even so, you can rejoice that Apple has so far listened to your voice.  Rejoice!  Because your beloved 5GB and only 5GB is here to stay for quite some time into the future.  Be proud!  You surely are pushing humanity forward by posing no threat to the status quo in Cupertino!

    And as to Mr. Caknucklehead (who is very appropriately named, by the way), I put forth his knuckleheaded stance to ChatGPT, which had this to say:

    Apple markets the 5GB of iCloud storage as "free," but it's not entirely free in the broader sense. Here's why:

    1. Cost of Apple Devices: To access iCloud, you need to own an Apple device, which isn't free. Apple's ecosystem is a premium one, with iPhones, iPads, and Macs costing significantly more than many alternatives. iCloud storage is arguably part of the value you're paying for when you buy into the ecosystem.

    2. Data Collection: While Apple has a strong stance on privacy compared to some competitors, offering iCloud storage allows Apple to keep users within its ecosystem. This indirect "cost" benefits Apple by creating brand loyalty and discouraging users from switching to competitors.

    3. Limited Usability: The 5GB of storage is shared across all your data—backups, photos, documents, and app data—making it insufficient for most users. This scarcity often nudges users toward purchasing paid plans. It's a calculated strategy, not purely a free giveaway.

    4. Marketing Hook: The 5GB tier is free, but it's also a way to upsell you on paid plans. The moment you exceed the limit, you need to pay. Apple likely sees this "free" tier as part of its customer acquisition cost.

    So, while you don't pay cash upfront for the 5GB, you're "paying" through the cost of the Apple device, the data ecosystem lock-in, and the likelihood of being enticed into a subscription. It’s better described as a limited trial than truly free.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 8 of 15
    Jdw when will auto makers show appreciation and provide me with free gas for my car? I've spent $250,000 on Toyotas over the past 16 years and got no free gas ever. Or maybe a credit to apply to my auto insurance. Tires? Goodyear ain't giving me tire rotations for free, although Direct Tire does. 

    It's getting more and more irritating to hear a larger segment of the current populace complain about how they're so downtrodden and put upon. 
    MplsPzeus423badmonkwatto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 9 of 15
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 4,063member
    Well, Tesla used to offer free supercharging, but that was discontinued several years ago and they did it as an incentive to boost sales.

    No company is obligated to offer a free service to purchasers of their products. They may do so as an incentive but to claim any sort of obligation is absurd. The fact that people have requested it is simply an indication of their desire, not any obligation on Apple's part.

    Don't get me wrong. I agree that the 5GB free tier is all but useless, particularly since it's remained stagnant as device requirements have increased. During that time, server and storage costs have also decreased, so Apple is actually spending less on the free storage option than they used to. That still doesn't put them under any legal obligation. From a business perspective, increasing the free tier would likely cost Apple some amount of money because it would cannibalize sales of the lowest paid tier.

    The next question, and the real question posed by the lawsuit, is whether the free tier is essentially a bait and switch. The prices are clearly posted on Apple's web site and they even have a page detailing how to reduce your storage usage so one can't argue that Apple has hidden the prices or that Apple is tricking people into using more storage. As the article stated, iCloud is not actually necessary to use an iPhone. It is clearly the most convenient option but is is not necessary so there is no legal or rational argument that iCloud much less a paid iCloud subscription is required. 

    @jdw - You did a nice job of posting links from people who think 5GB is too small and seem to think that's the same as making an argument that Apple should give more storage for free. If that's the case you need to work on your reasoning and rhetorical skills. Your points detailing why iCloud is preferable and provides value simply support its utility and actually make an argument justifying its cost. Also @Xed may be a 'Cupertino worshiper,' but that doesn't invalidate his argument. Attacking the person doesn't prove your point.
    zeus423dewmedanoxbadmonkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 15
    XedXed Posts: 2,911member
    jdw said:
    The only thing laughable is your stance, Xed, which basically just defends the status quo, hence "Cupertino Worshipper" would appear a fitting category for you.

    Even more laughable is your lack of knowledge that this has been talked about for a very long time by people far more influential in tech than me.  John Gruber had this to say way back in 2018 about that paltry 5GB:
    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2018/08/01/iphone-x-snell

    End users have asked for 5GB "per device" even on Apple's own forum:
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3893391?sortBy=rank

    Back in 2021 9to5Mac asked if Apple would every increase the base storage:
    https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/02/a-decade-of-5-gb-free-will-apple-ever-increase-base-icloud-storage/

    So there's really nothing further I need to add.  Your single vote as a Cupertino Status Quo Worshipper is outnumbered by sensible users.  Even so, you can rejoice that Apple has so far listened to your voice.  Rejoice!  Because your beloved 5GB and only 5GB is here to stay for quite some time into the future.  Be proud!  You surely are pushing humanity forward by posing no threat to the status quo in Cupertino!

    And as to Mr. Caknucklehead (who is very appropriately named, by the way), I put forth his knuckleheaded stance to ChatGPT, which had this to say:

    Apple markets the 5GB of iCloud storage as "free," but it's not entirely free in the broader sense. Here's why:

    1. Cost of Apple Devices: To access iCloud, you need to own an Apple device, which isn't free. Apple's ecosystem is a premium one, with iPhones, iPads, and Macs costing significantly more than many alternatives. iCloud storage is arguably part of the value you're paying for when you buy into the ecosystem.

    2. Data Collection: While Apple has a strong stance on privacy compared to some competitors, offering iCloud storage allows Apple to keep users within its ecosystem. This indirect "cost" benefits Apple by creating brand loyalty and discouraging users from switching to competitors.

    3. Limited Usability: The 5GB of storage is shared across all your data—backups, photos, documents, and app data—making it insufficient for most users. This scarcity often nudges users toward purchasing paid plans. It's a calculated strategy, not purely a free giveaway.

    4. Marketing Hook: The 5GB tier is free, but it's also a way to upsell you on paid plans. The moment you exceed the limit, you need to pay. Apple likely sees this "free" tier as part of its customer acquisition cost.

    So, while you don't pay cash upfront for the 5GB, you're "paying" through the cost of the Apple device, the data ecosystem lock-in, and the likelihood of being enticed into a subscription. It’s better described as a limited trial than truly free.

    You sound entitled AF. Again, if you don't agree with the value you are getting with a product that is for sale then don't fucking purchase it. Full stop. That's it.
    badmonkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 15
    1348513485 Posts: 380member
    jdw said:
    The only thing laughable is your stance, Xed, which basically just defends the status quo, hence "Cupertino Worshipper" would appear a fitting category for you.

    Even more laughable is your lack of knowledge that this has been talked about for a very long time by people far more influential in tech than me.  John Gruber had this to say way back in 2018 about that paltry 5GB:
    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2018/08/01/iphone-x-snell

    End users have asked for 5GB "per device" even on Apple's own forum:
    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3893391?sortBy=rank

    Back in 2021 9to5Mac asked if Apple would every increase the base storage:
    https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/02/a-decade-of-5-gb-free-will-apple-ever-increase-base-icloud-storage/

    So there's really nothing further I need to add.  Your single vote as a Cupertino Status Quo Worshipper is outnumbered by sensible users.  Even so, you can rejoice that Apple has so far listened to your voice.  Rejoice!  Because your beloved 5GB and only 5GB is here to stay for quite some time into the future.  Be proud!  You surely are pushing humanity forward by posing no threat to the status quo in Cupertino!

    And as to Mr. Caknucklehead (who is very appropriately named, by the way), I put forth his knuckleheaded stance to ChatGPT, which had this to say:

    Apple markets the 5GB of iCloud storage as "free," but it's not entirely free in the broader sense. Here's why:

    1. Cost of Apple Devices: To access iCloud, you need to own an Apple device, which isn't free. Apple's ecosystem is a premium one, with iPhones, iPads, and Macs costing significantly more than many alternatives. iCloud storage is arguably part of the value you're paying for when you buy into the ecosystem.

    2. Data Collection: While Apple has a strong stance on privacy compared to some competitors, offering iCloud storage allows Apple to keep users within its ecosystem. This indirect "cost" benefits Apple by creating brand loyalty and discouraging users from switching to competitors.

    3. Limited Usability: The 5GB of storage is shared across all your data—backups, photos, documents, and app data—making it insufficient for most users. This scarcity often nudges users toward purchasing paid plans. It's a calculated strategy, not purely a free giveaway.

    4. Marketing Hook: The 5GB tier is free, but it's also a way to upsell you on paid plans. The moment you exceed the limit, you need to pay. Apple likely sees this "free" tier as part of its customer acquisition cost.

    So, while you don't pay cash upfront for the 5GB, you're "paying" through the cost of the Apple device, the data ecosystem lock-in, and the likelihood of being enticed into a subscription. It’s better described as a limited trial than truly free.

    What's laughable is the refusal of critics to accept the fact that for a mere 99 cents a month you can get 10x the storage, after you've spent thousands for a computer. You can't get a cup of gas station coffee for 99 cents. You lose that much in your couch every month.

    According to CIRP (at least as reliable as opinions expressed on rumor sites) 64% of Apple users pay for iCloud+ storage. So the cost doesn't seem to be some outrageous barrier to using the Apple system.

    There's also the cost to Apple in this sense: 840,000,000 users x 1 TB (for instance, pick a number for the "free" storage and do your own math) = 840 Exabytes of server storage they would have to provide and maintain (thats almost a zettabyte). Who pays for that if it's all supposed to be free as a thank you for purchasing a device? CERN particle accelerator last year announced that they had finally passed the one exabyte capacity data storage level.


    badmonkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 15
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,646member
    For everyone arguing that 5GB isn't very much:

    I've noticed that if you EXCLUDE your photos/videos, then it is in fact sufficient for backing up most users' iPhones. This is probably why Apple hasn't changed the free tier.

    Would I be pleased if Apple made it 10GB, or offered to make it 10GB if you own more than one Apple device? Sure I would! But that still wouldn't let me put my photos and videos on that service.

    So I've been "suckered" into paying a whole dollar (OUTRAGEOUS) for 50GB storage per month. This is because I couldn't find another company I considered reliable that could charge so little for 50GB of space. But even if I could find a company that meets or exceeds Apple's offer for $1/month, I would need a guarantee from them that no marketing data would be collected or sold stemming from that deal, like I get from Apple regarding my iCloud storage.

    NA GA HA PEN.

    So to me the $12/year I spend for a reliable, ad-free/data collection free private and secure 50GB of backup safety is very well worth it. YMMV, I guess.
    MplsPbadmonkwatto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 13 of 15
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,463member
    MplsP said:
    @jdw - You did a nice job of posting links from people who think 5GB is too small and seem to think that's the same as making an argument that Apple should give more storage for free. If that's the case you need to work on your reasoning and rhetorical skills. Your points detailing why iCloud is preferable and provides value simply support its utility and actually make an argument justifying its cost. Also @Xed may be a 'Cupertino worshiper,' but that doesn't invalidate his argument. Attacking the person doesn't prove your point.
    You seem to be arguing with me for the sake of arguing more than anything else. For example, your use of “if that is the case“ seems to indicate your own ignorance of people publicly disliking the limited 5 GB tier for many years. It’s been rather commonly knowledge for quite some time. It could simply be you were simply feigning ignorance so as to diminish the significance of my previous arguments.

    Furthermore, your use of “you need to work on your reasoning and rhetorical skills” is technically the very “attacking the person” that you seem to take a stand against. You simply chose to cloak your attack a bit more eloquently and politely than others.

    Also, the objective of discussing these matters is not to “invalidate an argument.“. Do any of us change our minds based on forum rebuttals? I will guess the answer is NO. It is instead done to emphasize the reality of certain points being made which are either often overlooked, or treated flippantly by some.

    The reality is, there are a good number of Apple fans who worship anything Apple says at any given moment, even if Apple shifts its position. I have faced them most often in this very forum. I think that term “worship“ is appropriate descriptor in light of the etymology, where that term comes from the older English “worthship” (modern spelling) which pertains to us ascribing an special amount of worth to a given thing.

    There are a good number of Apple fans who worship (ascribe great worth to) anything Apple says at any given moment, even if Apple shifts position. That doesn’t invalidate any positions, nor should it. It is just a factual reality that sometimes needs to be made clear. 

    What drives many of my fellow Apple fans to say what they do? In many cases, it is simply the blind following of Apple, more than anything else. Why? Because Apple is a big company and many fans think thusly: “Apple must know better than people in the forum what is best for Apple overall.” Indeed there is some logic to it even if I refuse to embrace that as my basis for thinking as I do. I choose to think independently of Apple.

    For those reasons it would be wrong to interpret “Cupertino worshiper“ as unnecessarily “attacking the person.“ It is in fact describing the mentality of Apple fans who often come together to attack those in this forum who disagree with the Apple is always right narrative.  When you disagree with Apple, even slightly, in this forum, you are in the crosshairs of many.

    But even Cupertino Worshippers don’t remain such perpetually. Their positions sometimes change at any given time. People are too complex to put in a perpetual box like that. Some people who did fit that category in the past, no longer choose to remain in that category, for example. But when the descriptor fits, it is not wrong or invalid to point out what typically drives an argument.

    But if you wish to stick with your “attacking the person doesn’t prove your point“ line of argument, then Xed’s followup “you sound as entitled As F@@K” jab at me would also most likely be in your crosshairs. Note that he directed that exclusively towards me, rather than having read the links that I posted previously. He didn’t consider that I am just one small drop in a greater pool of people who dislike that never changing 5 GB, almost useless tier. Not liking a not-so-free 5GB iCloud tier in no way makes me “entitled.”

    Basically, most of you folks who are trying to take jabs at me for having stated the reality of the matter really are doing nothing more than defending, either directly or indirectly, the status quo. That position fails to understand that a good number of people have been turned off of Apple products because of that 5 GB. I know people who got into Apple products because I recommended Apple devices to them, but who later switched away from those Apple products specifically because they were infuriated by that very 5 GB. And no manner of arguing on my part dissuade them. Seems like a silly thing, but it triggers some people who aren’t loyal to Apple.

    AT the very least, changing the status quo and increasing that 5 GB in proportion to the purchase of new Apple products, for example, would be a positive change that would likely become a good “PR move“ akin to Apple boosting the base RAM in Macs from the paltry 8GB to 16GB.

    It’s not a matter of what Apple “is legally obligated to do.“ It’s a matter of them further enhancing the joy of those who decide to choose Apple over its competitors. It really is as simple as that.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 14 of 15
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 4,063member
    jdw said:
    MplsP said:
    @jdw - You did a nice job of posting links from people who think 5GB is too small and seem to think that's the same as making an argument that Apple should give more storage for free. If that's the case you need to work on your reasoning and rhetorical skills. Your points detailing why iCloud is preferable and provides value simply support its utility and actually make an argument justifying its cost. Also @Xed may be a 'Cupertino worshiper,' but that doesn't invalidate his argument. Attacking the person doesn't prove your point.
    You seem to be arguing with me for the sake of arguing more than anything else. For example, your use of “if that is the case“ seems to indicate your own ignorance of people publicly disliking the limited 5 GB tier for many years. It’s been rather commonly knowledge for quite some time. It could simply be you were simply feigning ignorance so as to diminish the significance of my previous arguments.

    Furthermore, your use of “you need to work on your reasoning and rhetorical skills” is technically the very “attacking the person” that you seem to take a stand against. You simply chose to cloak your attack a bit more eloquently and politely than others.

    Also, the objective of discussing these matters is not to “invalidate an argument.“. Do any of us change our minds based on forum rebuttals? I will guess the answer is NO. It is instead done to emphasize the reality of certain points being made which are either often overlooked, or treated flippantly by some.

    The reality is, there are a good number of Apple fans who worship anything Apple says at any given moment, even if Apple shifts its position. I have faced them most often in this very forum. I think that term “worship“ is appropriate descriptor in light of the etymology, where that term comes from the older English “worthship” (modern spelling) which pertains to us ascribing an special amount of worth to a given thing.

    There are a good number of Apple fans who worship (ascribe great worth to) anything Apple says at any given moment, even if Apple shifts position. That doesn’t invalidate any positions, nor should it. It is just a factual reality that sometimes needs to be made clear. 

    What drives many of my fellow Apple fans to say what they do? In many cases, it is simply the blind following of Apple, more than anything else. Why? Because Apple is a big company and many fans think thusly: “Apple must know better than people in the forum what is best for Apple overall.” Indeed there is some logic to it even if I refuse to embrace that as my basis for thinking as I do. I choose to think independently of Apple.

    For those reasons it would be wrong to interpret “Cupertino worshiper“ as unnecessarily “attacking the person.“ It is in fact describing the mentality of Apple fans who often come together to attack those in this forum who disagree with the Apple is always right narrative.  When you disagree with Apple, even slightly, in this forum, you are in the crosshairs of many.

    But even Cupertino Worshippers don’t remain such perpetually. Their positions sometimes change at any given time. People are too complex to put in a perpetual box like that. Some people who did fit that category in the past, no longer choose to remain in that category, for example. But when the descriptor fits, it is not wrong or invalid to point out what typically drives an argument.

    But if you wish to stick with your “attacking the person doesn’t prove your point“ line of argument, then Xed’s followup “you sound as entitled As F@@K” jab at me would also most likely be in your crosshairs. Note that he directed that exclusively towards me, rather than having read the links that I posted previously. He didn’t consider that I am just one small drop in a greater pool of people who dislike that never changing 5 GB, almost useless tier. Not liking a not-so-free 5GB iCloud tier in no way makes me “entitled.”

    Basically, most of you folks who are trying to take jabs at me for having stated the reality of the matter really are doing nothing more than defending, either directly or indirectly, the status quo. That position fails to understand that a good number of people have been turned off of Apple products because of that 5 GB. I know people who got into Apple products because I recommended Apple devices to them, but who later switched away from those Apple products specifically because they were infuriated by that very 5 GB. And no manner of arguing on my part dissuade them. Seems like a silly thing, but it triggers some people who aren’t loyal to Apple.

    AT the very least, changing the status quo and increasing that 5 GB in proportion to the purchase of new Apple products, for example, would be a positive change that would likely become a good “PR move“ akin to Apple boosting the base RAM in Macs from the paltry 8GB to 16GB.

    It’s not a matter of what Apple “is legally obligated to do.“ It’s a matter of them further enhancing the joy of those who decide to choose Apple over its competitors. It really is as simple as that.

    1. If you read my post, I was criticizing your argument. That is distinctly different from ad hominem attacks. 
    2. There are plenty of sycophantic, Cupertino worshiping fanboys here that will never speak ill of Our Lord and Savior, Tim Cook. That doesn’t invalidate what they say, it just makes it suspect. I (try to) evaluate arguments on their merits, not based on who is making them. 
    3. This thread is about a court case disputing the legality of the free 5GB iCloud tier. Opinions on how useful it is are irrelevant. Likewise, an opinion that Apple *should* do something is also irrelevant. 
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 15
    XedXed Posts: 2,911member
    chasm said:
    For everyone arguing that 5GB isn't very much:

    I've noticed that if you EXCLUDE your photos/videos, then it is in fact sufficient for backing up most users' iPhones. This is probably why Apple hasn't changed the free tier.

    Would I be pleased if Apple made it 10GB, or offered to make it 10GB if you own more than one Apple device? Sure I would! But that still wouldn't let me put my photos and videos on that service.

    So I've been "suckered" into paying a whole dollar (OUTRAGEOUS) for 50GB storage per month. This is because I couldn't find another company I considered reliable that could charge so little for 50GB of space. But even if I could find a company that meets or exceeds Apple's offer for $1/month, I would need a guarantee from them that no marketing data would be collected or sold stemming from that deal, like I get from Apple regarding my iCloud storage.

    NA GA HA PEN.

    So to me the $12/year I spend for a reliable, ad-free/data collection free private and secure 50GB of backup safety is very well worth it. YMMV, I guess.
    Regarding the free tier, that's kinda what I do. I don't really need all my decades of photos from my Mac to be synced to iCloud and then available on my iPhone since my usage is usually more timely and pointed, and less about being sentimentally based.

    Needs here will obviously vary, but for me, I'm able to simply keep my iPhone photos synced via iCloud as a backup in case I lose my device, and then once a month — with a Calendar reminder in place — I plug my iPhone into my Mac and then copy all the photos over to Photos in my Mac. I then delete all the photos from my Photos app, providing they're no longer needed for whatever project I'm working on (which is usually never, since it's set up as a Sunday task). 

    This has the added benefit of me being able to delete, edit, rename, and organize into folders my photos for that month, which makes an otherwise daunting task manageable. I have countless years where they aren't organized and I really don't want to go back to do it, but I do try to squeeze in a month of back photo organization here and there. Maybe one day it'll be complete.

    PS: I do wish that there isn't still(?) an option to auto-delete after copying over, but it's just a few extra seconds to do that task from my iPhone. In fact, this comment has taken longer to write than it takes me each month to do my manual upload and organize on my Mac.
    edited December 2024 watto_cobra
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