UK's iPhone spying backdoor demand sparks bipartisan US lawmaker anger

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US lawmakers want Britain to drop its demand for a backdoor into iOS, and say that if they don't, America should cut down intelligence sharing with the country.

UK Parliament
UK Parliament



Both Republican and Democrat committee members claim that Britain's demand for Apple to give it full access to user data imperils Americans. Even if other bad actors were somehow unable to use the backdoor, the UK government would be able to read previously encrypted data from any user, including ones in the US.

According to The Washington Post, bipartisan members of congressional oversight committees have written to Tulsi Gabbard, the new National Intelligence Director about the issue. Ron Wyden, a Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, and Andy Biggs, a Republican on the House Judiciary committee, have asked her to demand that the UK rescinds its order.

"If Apple is forced to build a backdoor in its products, that backdoor will end up in Americans' phones, tablets, and computers undermining the security of Americans' data, as well as of the countless federal, state and local government agencies that entrust sensitive data to Apple products."



"The US government must not permit what is effectively a foreign cyberattack waged through political means," they said. "If the UK does not immediately reverse this dangerous effort, we urge you to reevaluate US-UK cybersecurity arrangements and programs as well as US intelligence sharing with the UK."

The UK has neither confirmed nor denied that it has made this demand of Apple -- and it doesn't have to. Under British law, the UK government is allowed to compel companies to provide what's called technical cooperation, and those firms may not disclose that they have even been asked.

More, Apple can appeal the order -- and doubtlessly is already doing so -- but in theory it still has to implement the demand immediately. There is no delaying a response while an appeal is underway, and Apple would also be legally prohibited from even telling UK users what has happened.

Consequently, Apple has not commented on the UK demand since it was made. But the demand followed a 2024 Parliamentary debate which gave the UK this authority, and Apple did object at the time.

"There is no reason why the UK should have the authority to decide for citizens of the world whether they can avail themselves of the proven security benefits that flow from end-to-end encryption," Apple said in a statement in 2024.

While the current UK government is refusing to comment, a former chief executive of the country's own National Cyber Security Center has spoken out against the order.

"Most experts in the democratic world agree that what the UK is proposing would weaken digital security for everyone," said Ciaran Martin, "not just in the UK, but worldwide."

Director Gabbard has yet to publicly respond to the lawmakers' letter. However, those lawmakers noted that she did agree during her confirmation hearing that such backdoors "can undermine Americans' Fourth Amendment rights and civil liberties."

It's common in the UK for whichever government is in power to speak of what's called its "special relationship" with the US. That term doesn't tend to get used in US, but America did previously see the UK as an ally in the European Union.

The UK is no longer in the European Union. It's not known if Brexit affected the EU's sharing of intelligence data with the UK, but the US stopping or cutting down sharing is a serious threat.

It could mean that the land of James Bond would have intentionally chosen to have its intelligence services crippled. Twice.



Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 13
    That the US Congress should object to the UK spy request is a total crock.  Pot & kettle.  They did nothing when an immigrant oligarch with no legislative authority seized the personal info on every US taxpayer.
    DAalsethbyronl12StrangersForumPostfahlmanjeffharrisforegoneconclusionappleinsideruserwatto_cobraargonaut
     7Likes 3Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 2 of 13
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,236member
    The pot calling the kettle black:

    "The US government must not permit what is effectively a foreign cyberattack waged through political means," they said. "If the UK does not immediately reverse this dangerous effort, we urge you to reevaluate US-UK cybersecurity arrangements and programs as well as US intelligence sharing with the UK."

    The US isn't in a position to permit or not permit anything outside its sovereign territory but seeing its current president wade into the Ukraine problem (negotiating without consultation with allies) and then hearing Hegseth say the US didn't not have Europe as a primary security focus it is crystal clear that 'America First' means everyone else should roll up their collective sleeves for their collective arms to be twisted or broken if they don't follows 'oders'.

    Cowboy Diplomacy. 

    This from the country that promotes 'clean' networks and yet would love to have its own backdoors installed across the board. The same country that created PRISM and was on the Cypto AG train. 

    Perhaps the UK should just say no to the threats and shut down intelligence sharing. It was always a two-way setup anyway. Let's see how the US does by going it alone. Maybe Canada could do the same. And Australia. Any country suffering threats. 

    The threats to the UK were the same over Chinese companies and ICT infrastructure. 

    The UK is wrong in its requirements but the solution is for Apple to appeal and pull out if it isn't happy with the demands. 

    Threats are the new normal in Washington and I think the allies need to pushback with threats of their own. It's the only language Trump understands and no doubt 'allies' are making their opinions heard behind closed doors at the NATO meeting today and on the sidelines for non-Nato issues. 

    Public EU commentary (although measured due to diplomatic protocol) makes it clear that no one is happy with Trump's latest moves. 

    Although tongue-in-cheek, the recent comments floated around Canada applying to join the EU, could actually be used for some short term leverage. At least until Trump has 'left the building'. 


    jibDAalsethmuthuk_vanalingamibillForumPostJanNLwatto_cobraargonaut
     3Likes 5Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 13
    As expected every country will demand backdoors or in other words secure anything will disappear. Imagine DOGE/Musk using this as well. 
    fahlmandewmewatto_cobrabaconstang
     3Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 4 of 13
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,183member
    And given the US just put a Russian mole in charge of their intelligence apparatus, other countries are simply not going to give information to the US. The US simply cannot be trusted. At all.
    ForumPosttmayfahlmanjeffharrisdewmeOferwatto_cobraIreneWbaconstangargonaut
     8Likes 3Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 13
    1348513485 Posts: 395member
    That the US Congress should object to the UK spy request is a total crock.  Pot & kettle.  They did nothing when an immigrant oligarch with no legislative authority seized the personal info on every US taxpayer.
    One was a correct response, one was not.

    Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. Twas ever so with any legislature or government.

    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 13
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,153member
    avon b7 said:
    The pot calling the kettle black:

    "The US government must not permit what is effectively a foreign cyberattack waged through political means," they said. "If the UK does not immediately reverse this dangerous effort, we urge you to reevaluate US-UK cybersecurity arrangements and programs as well as US intelligence sharing with the UK."

    The US isn't in a position to permit or not permit anything outside its sovereign territory but seeing its current president wade into the Ukraine problem (negotiating without consultation with allies) and then hearing Hegseth say the US didn't not have Europe as a primary security focus it is crystal clear that 'America First' means everyone else should roll up their collective sleeves for their collective arms to be twisted or broken if they don't follows 'oders'.

    Cowboy Diplomacy. 

    This from the country that promotes 'clean' networks and yet would love to have its own backdoors installed across the board. The same country that created PRISM and was on the Cypto AG train. 

    Perhaps the UK should just say no to the threats and shut down intelligence sharing. It was always a two-way setup anyway. Let's see how the US does by going it alone. Maybe Canada could do the same. And Australia. Any country suffering threats. 

    The threats to the UK were the same over Chinese companies and ICT infrastructure. 

    The UK is wrong in its requirements but the solution is for Apple to appeal and pull out if it isn't happy with the demands. 

    Threats are the new normal in Washington and I think the allies need to pushback with threats of their own. It's the only language Trump understands and no doubt 'allies' are making their opinions heard behind closed doors at the NATO meeting today and on the sidelines for non-Nato issues. 

    Public EU commentary (although measured due to diplomatic protocol) makes it clear that no one is happy with Trump's latest moves. 

    Although tongue-in-cheek, the recent comments floated around Canada applying to join the EU, could actually be used for some short term leverage. At least until Trump has 'left the building'. 



    Speaking of the pot calling the kettle black ..... That would also be the case if the EU came out against the UK demand of a backdoor. Even if the EU don't call their proposed demand to have all their citizens data scanned for illegal contents, (when going through a third party server), it will essentially have the same result, the end of E2EE in the EU.


    >Of the 20 EU countries represented in the document leaked to WIRED, the majority said they are in favor of some form of scanning of encrypted messages, with Spain’s position emerging as the most extreme. “Ideally, in our view, it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption,” Spanish representatives said in the document.<


    So would you rather have the EU support the UK in their demand for a backdoor and not be labeled .... the pot calling the kettle black or would you rather it be a case of ....... the pot calling the kettle black ..... by having the EU speak out against the UK demand to end E2EE?



    edited February 14
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 7 of 13
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,236member
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    The pot calling the kettle black:

    "The US government must not permit what is effectively a foreign cyberattack waged through political means," they said. "If the UK does not immediately reverse this dangerous effort, we urge you to reevaluate US-UK cybersecurity arrangements and programs as well as US intelligence sharing with the UK."

    The US isn't in a position to permit or not permit anything outside its sovereign territory but seeing its current president wade into the Ukraine problem (negotiating without consultation with allies) and then hearing Hegseth say the US didn't not have Europe as a primary security focus it is crystal clear that 'America First' means everyone else should roll up their collective sleeves for their collective arms to be twisted or broken if they don't follows 'oders'.

    Cowboy Diplomacy. 

    This from the country that promotes 'clean' networks and yet would love to have its own backdoors installed across the board. The same country that created PRISM and was on the Cypto AG train. 

    Perhaps the UK should just say no to the threats and shut down intelligence sharing. It was always a two-way setup anyway. Let's see how the US does by going it alone. Maybe Canada could do the same. And Australia. Any country suffering threats. 

    The threats to the UK were the same over Chinese companies and ICT infrastructure. 

    The UK is wrong in its requirements but the solution is for Apple to appeal and pull out if it isn't happy with the demands. 

    Threats are the new normal in Washington and I think the allies need to pushback with threats of their own. It's the only language Trump understands and no doubt 'allies' are making their opinions heard behind closed doors at the NATO meeting today and on the sidelines for non-Nato issues. 

    Public EU commentary (although measured due to diplomatic protocol) makes it clear that no one is happy with Trump's latest moves. 

    Although tongue-in-cheek, the recent comments floated around Canada applying to join the EU, could actually be used for some short term leverage. At least until Trump has 'left the building'. 



    Speaking of the pot calling the kettle black ..... That would also be the case if the EU came out against the UK demand of a backdoor. Even if the EU don't call their proposed demand to have all their citizens data scanned for illegal contents, (when going through a third party server), it will essentially have the same result, the end of E2EE in the EU.


    >Of the 20 EU countries represented in the document leaked to WIRED, the majority said they are in favor of some form of scanning of encrypted messages, with Spain’s position emerging as the most extreme. “Ideally, in our view, it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption,” Spanish representatives said in the document.<


    So would you rather have the EU support the UK in their demand for a backdoor and not be labeled .... the pot calling the kettle black or would you rather it be a case of ....... the pot calling the kettle black ..... by having the EU speak out against the UK demand to end E2EE?



    The situation is not the same so why would this be a case of the the pot and the kettle? 

    Or has the EU protested against the UK demands? 

    Hypothetically, maybe. That would have to be seen. 

    Personally, I am against any such moves for backdoor access to encrypted content like the UK is claimed to have introduced. 

    The EU situation has nothing to do with the UK situation as nothing has actually happened in the EU. 

    All you point to is a leaked document (which is a survey) of some EU states' ideas on the subject of CSAM and from what I can tell, those documents were drafted by a law enforcement group:

    "The leaked document contains the position of members of the police Law Enforcement Working Party, a group of the Council of the European Union that deals with law". 

    Should we be surprised they think like that?

    From a 'survey' drawn up from the results of one group (with a vested interest in some kinds of access to data) to getting a law similar to that of the UK passed there is a huge divide. 

    Especially as any such law would probably end up at the ECJ. 

    As the Wired article states, this is a years old debate that won't go away any time soon but is not, in any way, a case of the pot calling the kettle black. 

    'What ifs'? I don't see that as relevant to the case today. 
    edited February 14
    watto_cobra
     0Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 13
    This is all like a bad movie plot. 
    Idiocracy has arrived in Washington, full bore.
    foregoneconclusionwatto_cobrabaconstang
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 13
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,763member
    This is all like a bad movie plot. 
    Idiocracy has arrived in Washington, full bore.
    That's really unfair to President Camacho. I think he really did care about the people and was interested in making their lives better. He wanted the plants to grow. 
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 13
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,763member

    eightzero said:
    And given the US just put a Russian mole in charge of their intelligence apparatus, other countries are simply not going to give information to the US. The US simply cannot be trusted. At all.
    Yeah, I don't trust this current US govt at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they intend to secretly do the exact same thing or worse. 

    I've always trusted the security of Apple products, but as Tim Cook has said many times, Apple follows the laws in the countries where it operates (and obviously they have to). That means that Apple is only as trustworthy as the government in your country. I recently downloaded Signal for the first time. 
    edited February 14
    watto_cobrabaconstang
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 13
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,434member
    Oh my goodness. Those uncouth colonials across the pond are getting uppity again. Someone should tell them their place and to accept what their more refined European betters decide to do. For their own good of course.
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 13
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,153member
    avon b7 said:
    davidw said:
    avon b7 said:
    The pot calling the kettle black:

    "The US government must not permit what is effectively a foreign cyberattack waged through political means," they said. "If the UK does not immediately reverse this dangerous effort, we urge you to reevaluate US-UK cybersecurity arrangements and programs as well as US intelligence sharing with the UK."

    The US isn't in a position to permit or not permit anything outside its sovereign territory but seeing its current president wade into the Ukraine problem (negotiating without consultation with allies) and then hearing Hegseth say the US didn't not have Europe as a primary security focus it is crystal clear that 'America First' means everyone else should roll up their collective sleeves for their collective arms to be twisted or broken if they don't follows 'oders'.

    Cowboy Diplomacy. 

    This from the country that promotes 'clean' networks and yet would love to have its own backdoors installed across the board. The same country that created PRISM and was on the Cypto AG train. 

    Perhaps the UK should just say no to the threats and shut down intelligence sharing. It was always a two-way setup anyway. Let's see how the US does by going it alone. Maybe Canada could do the same. And Australia. Any country suffering threats. 

    The threats to the UK were the same over Chinese companies and ICT infrastructure. 

    The UK is wrong in its requirements but the solution is for Apple to appeal and pull out if it isn't happy with the demands. 

    Threats are the new normal in Washington and I think the allies need to pushback with threats of their own. It's the only language Trump understands and no doubt 'allies' are making their opinions heard behind closed doors at the NATO meeting today and on the sidelines for non-Nato issues. 

    Public EU commentary (although measured due to diplomatic protocol) makes it clear that no one is happy with Trump's latest moves. 

    Although tongue-in-cheek, the recent comments floated around Canada applying to join the EU, could actually be used for some short term leverage. At least until Trump has 'left the building'. 



    Speaking of the pot calling the kettle black ..... That would also be the case if the EU came out against the UK demand of a backdoor. Even if the EU don't call their proposed demand to have all their citizens data scanned for illegal contents, (when going through a third party server), it will essentially have the same result, the end of E2EE in the EU.


    >Of the 20 EU countries represented in the document leaked to WIRED, the majority said they are in favor of some form of scanning of encrypted messages, with Spain’s position emerging as the most extreme. “Ideally, in our view, it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption,” Spanish representatives said in the document.<


    So would you rather have the EU support the UK in their demand for a backdoor and not be labeled .... the pot calling the kettle black or would you rather it be a case of ....... the pot calling the kettle black ..... by having the EU speak out against the UK demand to end E2EE?



    The situation is not the same so why would this be a case of the the pot and the kettle? 

    Or has the EU protested against the UK demands? 

    Hypothetically, maybe. That would have to be seen. 

    Personally, I am against any such moves for backdoor access to encrypted content like the UK is claimed to have introduced. 

    The EU situation has nothing to do with the UK situation as nothing has actually happened in the EU. 

    All you point to is a leaked document (which is a survey) of some EU states' ideas on the subject of CSAM and from what I can tell, those documents were drafted by a law enforcement group:

    "The leaked document contains the position of members of the police Law Enforcement Working Party, a group of the Council of the European Union that deals with law". 

    Should we be surprised they think like that?

    From a 'survey' drawn up from the results of one group (with a vested interest in some kinds of access to data) to getting a law similar to that of the UK passed there is a huge divide. 

    Especially as any such law would probably end up at the ECJ. 

    As the Wired article states, this is a years old debate that won't go away any time soon but is not, in any way, a case of the pot calling the kettle black. 

    'What ifs'? I don't see that as relevant to the case today. 

    And there is no relevance of anything the US has done, whether under present or past POTUS . So far the US politicians has not come close to passing a law that bans E2EE or requiring a backdoor. Law Enforcement agencies in the US have always wants to place a limit on E2EE, but so far, like in the EU, nothing been done to end it. So no ...pot calling the kettle black here either.

    But both US and EU government have always been able to access personal data of their citizens. Data from land line telephone calls and data from mobile phones have always been accessible to law enforcement under Lawful Interception laws. But so far, these laws do not require telecoms to provide law enforcement with un-encrypted E2EE messages. They can just hand over the E2EE message as is and let the law enforcement agency try to un-encrypt it. (So long as the providers themselves do not have the key.).

    PRISM fell under this. Thus PRISM is also not relevant as it did not put a ban on E2EE.  When PRISM was enacted in 2007, E2EE of private messages, was not commonly used by the average citizens. If anything, once citizens found out about PRISM, E2EE of private messages became a common selling point of nearly all messaging services. But still, Prism did not call for a ban on E2EE.


    >Almost all countries have lawful interception capability requirements and have implemented them using global LI requirements and standards developed by the European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI),<

    We here in the US also have politicians using the  ........ "think of the children ...." mantra, as a way to get a ban of E2EE, with the Earn It Act. Same mantra used in the EU in an attempt to get E2EE ban there. And just like the EU, it has not passed into law. It's still in the committee stage and not been voted on by the Senate or House. It's been around in various stages since 2020. So right now, we're not even close to passing a law that will ban E2EE or requiring a backdoor to E2EE messaging. So for now, there's no  ... the pot calling the kettle black ....., here either.


    No rational citizen in any country, who believes that their private messages should not be subject to search without first being at least suspected of committing a crime(show probable cause), expects their government to think the same way.





    edited February 15
    watto_cobrabaconstangjbdragon
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 13

    US lawmakers want Britain to drop its demand for a backdoor into iOS, and say that if they don't, America should cut down intelligence sharing with the country.

    UK Parliament
    UK Parliament



    Both Republican and Democrat committee members claim that Britain's demand for Apple to give it full access to user data imperils Americans. Even if other bad actors were somehow unable to use the backdoor, the UK government would be able to read previously encrypted data from any user, including ones in the US.

    According to The Washington Post, bipartisan members of congressional oversight committees have written to Tulsi Gabbard, the new National Intelligence Director about the issue. Ron Wyden, a Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, and Andy Biggs, a Republican on the House Judiciary committee, have asked her to demand that the UK rescinds its order.

    "If Apple is forced to build a backdoor in its products, that backdoor will end up in Americans' phones, tablets, and computers undermining the security of Americans' data, as well as of the countless federal, state and local government agencies that entrust sensitive data to Apple products."



    "The US government must not permit what is effectively a foreign cyberattack waged through political means," they said. "If the UK does not immediately reverse this dangerous effort, we urge you to reevaluate US-UK cybersecurity arrangements and programs as well as US intelligence sharing with the UK."

    The UK has neither confirmed nor denied that it has made this demand of Apple -- and it doesn't have to. Under British law, the UK government is allowed to compel companies to provide what's called technical cooperation, and those firms may not disclose that they have even been asked.

    More, Apple can appeal the order -- and doubtlessly is already doing so -- but in theory it still has to implement the demand immediately. There is no delaying a response while an appeal is underway, and Apple would also be legally prohibited from even telling UK users what has happened.

    Consequently, Apple has not commented on the UK demand since it was made. But the demand followed a 2024 Parliamentary debate which gave the UK this authority, and Apple did object at the time.

    "There is no reason why the UK should have the authority to decide for citizens of the world whether they can avail themselves of the proven security benefits that flow from end-to-end encryption," Apple said in a statement in 2024.

    While the current UK government is refusing to comment, a former chief executive of the country's own National Cyber Security Center has spoken out against the order.

    "Most experts in the democratic world agree that what the UK is proposing would weaken digital security for everyone," said Ciaran Martin, "not just in the UK, but worldwide."

    Director Gabbard has yet to publicly respond to the lawmakers' letter. However, those lawmakers noted that she did agree during her confirmation hearing that such backdoors "can undermine Americans' Fourth Amendment rights and civil liberties."

    It's common in the UK for whichever government is in power to speak of what's called its "special relationship" with the US. That term doesn't tend to get used in US, but America did previously see the UK as an ally in the European Union.

    The UK is no longer in the European Union. It's not known if Brexit affected the EU's sharing of intelligence data with the UK, but the US stopping or cutting down sharing is a serious threat.

    It could mean that the land of James Bond would have intentionally chosen to have its intelligence services crippled. Twice.



    Read on AppleInsider

    The UK Government should not be making this request in the first place, only an idiot would be making this request. It is good that the United States Government has told the UK Government that they are making a bad request. Keep in mind it is a request as the UK Government is in no position to demand anything.
    baconstangneoncat
     1Like 1Dislike 0Informatives
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