A call from Tim Cook helped convince Trump to introduce tariff exemptions

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CEO Tim Cook's working relationship with President Donald Trump has once again helped Apple escape issues in the U.S.-China tariff battle. Here's how.

Two men in suits sit at a table, engaged in conversation against a formal setting with a white ornate background.
Tim Cook [left], President Donald Trump [right]



On April 11, following after a week of increases to the import tariff for Chinese goods entering the United States, President Trump made an announcement. While many products would be affected by a high import tariff of 145% at the time, Trump decided he was giving a reprieve on a variety of tech products and components.

While the reprieve itself is not permanent, with a semiconductor tariff expected to arrive in the future, the exemptions were immediately helpful to Apple. Indeed, a few days later, Trump confirmed that he was in talks with Tim Cook, and that he "helped" him with the tariff exemption.

In a report from the Washington Post, it appears that Cook did play a part in the tariff changes becoming a reality.

Warnings and silence



Cook talked to Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick earlier in April, two people familiar with the phone call told the report. The call was about the potential impact of tariffs on iPhone prices, and also involved other senior White House officials.

There was also a decision by Cook to avoid publicly discussing or criticizing Trump and his policies. This was despite other executives taking to television to denounce the tariffs.

At the end of the week, the Trump Administration decided to implement the exemption on products Apple manufactures in China and ships to the United States. The decision had a byproduct of helping other major U.S. tech firms who made similar products.

There apparently wasn't a complete agreement on the issue within the White House. Aide Peter Navarro allegedly wanted the tariffs to stay as they were without any electronics carveout.

The ol' Cook razzle-dazzle



The chief reason for Trump listening to Cook is because of his established relationship that has continued into the second term. Wilbur Ross, commerce secretary during Trump's first term in office, referred to Cook as "playing a very careful role" while being both very dependent on China and very important to U.S. interests.

Ross continued that Cook got respect from the White House because "he's not a public whiner, he's not a crybaby." As he had a voice of reality, Ross believed that it was unsurprising that Cook would be heard and his comments well received by the administration.

The repeated conversations and meetings with Trump, which have spilled over into the new term, as well as initiatives such as a personal donation to Trump's inaugural fund, have helped Cook stay an important person in Trump's eyes.

The Cook playbook has also been one that executives of other companies have also copied following that first term. This has included attempts by CEOs such as Nvidia's Jensen Huang and Google's Sundar Pichai meeting with Trump over the last few weeks, schmoozing to try and minimize the damage from Trump's policies.

Other major tech names have also attempted to make themselves more well known to Trump, all with the same motive to get into Trump's good books.

Not Apple-specific, but it is



Outside of comments from Trump himself that he was helping Cook and Apple, the White House has still worked to try and make it seem like it wasn't an Apple-specific exemption.

Lori Wallach, executive director of Rethink Trade at the American Economic Liberties Project, highlights how Apple has been the biggest beneficiary of the exemptions. Of seven tariff lines added after the April 2 exception list, Wallach points out that they all consist of products that Apple makes, but few others do.

For its part, the White House is running an investigation into semiconductors, as a means to appear above-board and not playing favorites.

White House spokesman Kush Desai insisted that there were no exemptions granted to benefit Apple or any other company specifically. The Administration is "taking a nuanced, strategic approach" on China, Desai continued.

Despite the pretense that everything is equal to all in the market when it comes to exemptions, the affair does demonstrate that Cook has led the way among other CEOs by cultivating a very beneficial relationship with the country's chief.



Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 14
    ilarynxilarynx Posts: 157member
    Does this mean that Tim Apple is "snippy"?
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 2 of 14
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,462member

    CEO Tim Cook's working relationship with President Donald Trump has once again helped Apple escape issues in the U.S.-China tariff battle. Here's how.

    Two men in suits sit at a table, engaged in conversation against a formal setting with a white ornate background.
    Tim Cook [left], President Donald Trump [right]



    On April 11, following after a week of increases to the import tariff for Chinese goods entering the United States, President Trump made an announcement. While many products would be affected by a high import tariff of 145% at the time, Trump decided he was giving a reprieve on a variety of tech products and components.

    While the reprieve itself is not permanent, with a semiconductor tariff expected to arrive in the future, the exemptions were immediately helpful to Apple. Indeed, a few days later, Trump confirmed that he was in talks with Tim Cook, and that he "helped" him with the tariff exemption.

    In a report from the Washington Post, it appears that Cook did play a part in the tariff changes becoming a reality.

    Warnings and silence



    Cook talked to Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick earlier in April, two people familiar with the phone call told the report. The call was about the potential impact of tariffs on iPhone prices, and also involved other senior White House officials.

    There was also a decision by Cook to avoid publicly discussing or criticizing Trump and his policies. This was despite other executives taking to television to denounce the tariffs.

    At the end of the week, the Trump Administration decided to implement the exemption on products Apple manufactures in China and ships to the United States. The decision had a byproduct of helping other major U.S. tech firms who made similar products.

    There apparently wasn't a complete agreement on the issue within the White House. Aide Peter Navarro allegedly wanted the tariffs to stay as they were without any electronics carveout.

    The ol' Cook razzle-dazzle



    The chief reason for Trump listening to Cook is because of his established relationship that has continued into the second term. Wilbur Ross, commerce secretary during Trump's first term in office, referred to Cook as "playing a very careful role" while being both very dependent on China and very important to U.S. interests.

    Ross continued that Cook got respect from the White House because "he's not a public whiner, he's not a crybaby." As he had a voice of reality, Ross believed that it was unsurprising that Cook would be heard and his comments well received by the administration.

    The repeated conversations and meetings with Trump, which have spilled over into the new term, as well as initiatives such as a personal donation to Trump's inaugural fund, have helped Cook stay an important person in Trump's eyes.

    The Cook playbook has also been one that executives of other companies have also copied following that first term. This has included attempts by CEOs such as Nvidia's Jensen Huang and Google's Sundar Pichai meeting with Trump over the last few weeks, schmoozing to try and minimize the damage from Trump's policies.

    Other major tech names have also attempted to make themselves more well known to Trump, all with the same motive to get into Trump's good books.

    Not Apple-specific, but it is



    Outside of comments from Trump himself that he was helping Cook and Apple, the White House has still worked to try and make it seem like it wasn't an Apple-specific exemption.

    Lori Wallach, executive director of Rethink Trade at the American Economic Liberties Project, highlights how Apple has been the biggest beneficiary of the exemptions. Of seven tariff lines added after the April 2 exception list, Wallach points out that they all consist of products that Apple makes, but few others do.

    For its part, the White House is running an investigation into semiconductors, as a means to appear above-board and not playing favorites.

    White House spokesman Kush Desai insisted that there were no exemptions granted to benefit Apple or any other company specifically. The Administration is "taking a nuanced, strategic approach" on China, Desai continued.

    Despite the pretense that everything is equal to all in the market when it comes to exemptions, the affair does demonstrate that Cook has led the way among other CEOs by cultivating a very beneficial relationship with the country's chief.



    Read on AppleInsider

    Well, considering that Apple is the 800 pound gorilla in the consumer electronics space, it will obviously benefit most from any tariff relief by virtue of its huge sales. As far as tariff exemption lines added that "consist of products that Apple makes, but few others do" that's not as favorable to Apple as it sounds. Look at smartphones: there's Apple, Samsung, Google and nobody else that matters. Similarly, with computers, you have a small handful of companies that matter and that's it. So I would imagine that Apple's primary competitors in every line are benefitting from the exemptions, too. 
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 3 of 14
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,164member
    Hate what Trump is doing or not, but Apple carries that much sway in the U.S. economy that I would expect Apple's CEO to have some kind of red telephone in his office with direct access to whatever President is sitting in the chair.  
    9secondkox2grandact73watto_cobra
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  • Reply 4 of 14
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,440member
    charlesn said:
    Well, considering that Apple is the 800 pound gorilla in the consumer electronics space, it will obviously benefit most from any tariff relief by virtue of its huge sales. As far as tariff exemption lines added that "consist of products that Apple makes, but few others do" that's not as favorable to Apple as it sounds. Look at smartphones: there's Apple, Samsung, Google and nobody else that matters. Similarly, with computers, you have a small handful of companies that matter and that's it. So I would imagine that Apple's primary competitors in every line are benefitting from the exemptions, too. 
    For sure the temporary tariff exemptions are helping other companies which is why there was a broader market (and electronics sector) bounce after the White House announced the exemption.

    Also, when the White House was escalating their retaliatory tariff snit with China, some other companies' stock prices got pummelled even worse than Apple. Notably Dell and HP share prices took massive beatings. We've also seen Nvidia take a beating even though their technology is not present in any currently marketed Apple device to my knowledge. Same with AMD and Intel.

    However you're just looking at the top level label on the box. There are tons of components in all types of products. The tariff isn't just applied to the final assembled SKU.

    Companies who are more focused on services (Google, Meta, Amazon, etc.) are less affected by technology hardware tariffs in terms of revenue but certainly those tariffs affect operations (the cost of doing business) in doing things like increasing the server costs in data centers, stuff like that.

    In the end, nothing will be cheaper for Americans, everything will end up costing more. Tariffs are really just a federal sales tax without being a line item on a store receipt.
    edited April 17
    sconosciuto9secondkox2watto_cobra
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  • Reply 5 of 14
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,433member
    It’s important to remember even as Cook manages some carve-outs for Apple that the underlying tariffs will be devastating for all the other businesses that don’t get the exemptions. I listened yesterday to an interview with a man who runs a business making the things new mothers need for their babies. Sippy cups, strollers and the rest. The 145% tariffs mean that he and his competitors have all cancelled their orders for new supply. They’ve already absorbed the previous tariffs, and the new rate would make their wares unsalable. They have sixty days’ supply already here, and it takes at least 45 days from placing an order to receiving it at the port. He can’t get the manufacturing tools and machinery he’s invested in out of China to move a factory here. He can’t afford to start from scratch, and even if he did, building a factory takes years. 

    We are a couple of months out at the most from seeing huge shortages in the supply of all kinds of things that we use every day. This is not some abstract, academic discussion about economics. This is a looming disaster. And where do we always turn when the business world falters? Well, this administration has already fired the government employees and eliminated the government departments that would pick up the pieces. At least you’ll be able to buy that new iPhone at the normal price. Maybe. 
    sconosciutosemi_guymuthuk_vanalingam9secondkox2chasmFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 6 of 14
    i heard that same NPR interview yesterday with Munchkin CEO. His points are comments were identical as those expressed with other small and medium size businesses. They have spent significant capital setting molds and equipment in China. That equipment, tools, and molds cannot be exported, and the current administration is not even addressing the simple problem of visa/license/export issues. In addition to those simple issues, there greater problem is that there are no equivalent factories, trained workforce, or supply chain. Those take years to create, debug, and train. In the meantime, those businesses stopped ordering and there will be a shortage of items in 60 days. The lead time once orders start is 45 days, with the waffling of red light/green light on tariff, no company is going to start orders. The lack of material will even drive prices much higher than the tariff, and worse than in COVID. Those companies without revenue will laid off people, close, or go bankrupt.

    So you might be able to order and get an iPhone, but not find a case, adapter, mount, or cable, even if you wanted to pay extra. Can't imagine the cost of auto parts and the increase on our auto insurance since parts will be more expensive, if they are available.
    chasmtokyojimuwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 7 of 14
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,439member
    Cook can’t help but be happy about that. 

    Tariffs could have hit them hard. But they have been treated well. Hopefully it continues.

    looking forward to iPhone 17 and am m5 max MacBook Pro 16” if a large iMac doesn’t materialize by end of winter. Been looking forward to apple prices heading toward back to reality in pricing now that the covid uncertainty and shutdowns has been over for a while. Then the tariffs came, but also seems to be done in a way that could enable healthier pricing (for the consumer - it’s already been healthy for apple). Wanted to hold out for m6 in 2nm, but I don’t know if I can wait much longer. 


    edited April 18
    AppleZuluwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 8 of 14
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,750member
    Today is today and tomorrow is tomorrow we shall see……
    neoncatwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 9 of 14
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,433member
    Cook can’t help but be happy about that. 

    Tariffs could have hit them hard. But they have been treated well. Hopefully it continues.

    looking forward to iPhone 17 and am m5 max MacBook Pro 16” if a large iMac doesn’t materialize by end of winter. Been looking forward to apple prices heading toward back to reality in pricing now that the covid uncertainty and shutdowns has been over for a while. Then the tariffs came, but also seems to be done in a way that could enable healthier pricing (for the consumer - it’s already been healthy for apple). Wanted to hold out for m6 in 2nm, but I don’t know if I can wait much longer. 


    The on-again-off-again-even-more-on-again tariff regime is already creating economic instability that won’t be stoppable even if a total “off-again” pronouncement comes tomorrow. Businesses that didn’t get an exemption have already cancelled orders. Consumers will soon find that many things they need won’t be available at any price. For Apple, having the exemptions is better than not having the exemptions, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. The chaos created by this administration will harm Apple anyway. Your fantasy world where this is all ok doesn’t actually exist. 
    9secondkox2avon b7muthuk_vanalingamalgnormFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 10 of 14
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,439member
    AppleZulu said:
    Cook can’t help but be happy about that. 

    Tariffs could have hit them hard. But they have been treated well. Hopefully it continues.

    looking forward to iPhone 17 and am m5 max MacBook Pro 16” if a large iMac doesn’t materialize by end of winter. Been looking forward to apple prices heading toward back to reality in pricing now that the covid uncertainty and shutdowns has been over for a while. Then the tariffs came, but also seems to be done in a way that could enable healthier pricing (for the consumer - it’s already been healthy for apple). Wanted to hold out for m6 in 2nm, but I don’t know if I can wait much longer. 


    The on-again-off-again-even-more-on-again tariff regime is already creating economic instability that won’t be stoppable even if a total “off-again” pronouncement comes tomorrow. Businesses that didn’t get an exemption have already cancelled orders. Consumers will soon find that many things they need won’t be available at any price. For Apple, having the exemptions is better than not having the exemptions, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. The chaos created by this administration will harm Apple anyway. Your fantasy world where this is all ok doesn’t actually exist. 
    You do the right thing because it’s right. Not because it’s simple or easy to do. More often than not, it’s rather difficult and those around you prefer the easy way, even if it only defers disaster. Things were getting out of hand. Some had been that way for a while. And it doesn’t stop at trade imbalances. We start seeing abuse like the eu with apple.. next thing we knew, all kinds of governments were looking to take their own bite out of apple. These recent actions put the world on notice: not only will trade imbalances need to be more equitable, but leveraging financial consequences to stem abuse in other ways is quite a powerful tool when needed. All of a sudden the eu is very careful about slapping more fines on Apple. With tariffs, foreign goods get more expensive, leading to a glut of unsold items when consumers buy elsewhere. That hurts the seller much more than the buyer. It’s supply and demand. When demand dries up, the supplier is left having wasted money on unsold inventory. The supply will be provided elsewhere, buying habits change, etc. and yet Apple does seem to be in the enviable position of avoiding most, if not all, of that. Everyone has a opinion, but time will tell of course. 
    AppleZulualgnormcharlesnsemi_guyWesley_Hilliardwatto_cobra
     1Like 5Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 11 of 14
    charlesncharlesn Posts: 1,462member
    AppleZulu said:
    Cook can’t help but be happy about that. 

    Tariffs could have hit them hard. But they have been treated well. Hopefully it continues.

    looking forward to iPhone 17 and am m5 max MacBook Pro 16” if a large iMac doesn’t materialize by end of winter. Been looking forward to apple prices heading toward back to reality in pricing now that the covid uncertainty and shutdowns has been over for a while. Then the tariffs came, but also seems to be done in a way that could enable healthier pricing (for the consumer - it’s already been healthy for apple). Wanted to hold out for m6 in 2nm, but I don’t know if I can wait much longer. 


    The on-again-off-again-even-more-on-again tariff regime is already creating economic instability that won’t be stoppable even if a total “off-again” pronouncement comes tomorrow. Businesses that didn’t get an exemption have already cancelled orders. Consumers will soon find that many things they need won’t be available at any price. For Apple, having the exemptions is better than not having the exemptions, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. The chaos created by this administration will harm Apple anyway. Your fantasy world where this is all ok doesn’t actually exist. 
    You do the right thing because it’s right. Not because it’s simple or easy to do. 
    Oh, PLEASE enlighten us--not to mention the entire business community of America--on what "right thing" you think this utterly incompetent administration is trying to do. Address trade imbalances? By starting a trade war with the entire planet at once using an idiotic and nonsensical "formula" as to how tariffs will be applied? And then trying to disguise the idiocy of it all with an equally idiotic, symbol-filled "equation" that, of course, sentient beings figured out in a second was the same thing as the first formula, now masquerading in a new costume. Trump claims that "everybody's kissing his ass" for a deal. Really? And of the 195 countries on Earth, how many deals have we made so far? Oh, that's right... ZERO. Vietnam offered EXACTLY what Trump says he wants: equal and reciprocal tariffs at 0% for both sides. So did Trump make a deal? Of course not! Because what he says is worthless the second the words leave his mouth. It then became about "other issues that had to be negotiated." Trump will accomplish nothing other to usher in the era of China's leadership of the world. which is really saying something when you can make Xi Jinping look like the more competent, reliable and responsible adult in the room. Trump's only skills are grifter and con man and he's discovering the hard way that the rest of the world and the laws of economics can't be conned. There are certainly trade imbalances to be addressed, especially with China, but Trump's stupidity has traded in what could have been a winning hand in a new deal with China for... how did Scott Bessent put it?... oh yeah, a pair of twos. 
    semi_guyAppleZulutokyojimuFileMakerFeller9secondkox2watto_cobra
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  • Reply 12 of 14
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,433member
    AppleZulu said:
    Cook can’t help but be happy about that. 

    Tariffs could have hit them hard. But they have been treated well. Hopefully it continues.

    looking forward to iPhone 17 and am m5 max MacBook Pro 16” if a large iMac doesn’t materialize by end of winter. Been looking forward to apple prices heading toward back to reality in pricing now that the covid uncertainty and shutdowns has been over for a while. Then the tariffs came, but also seems to be done in a way that could enable healthier pricing (for the consumer - it’s already been healthy for apple). Wanted to hold out for m6 in 2nm, but I don’t know if I can wait much longer. 


    The on-again-off-again-even-more-on-again tariff regime is already creating economic instability that won’t be stoppable even if a total “off-again” pronouncement comes tomorrow. Businesses that didn’t get an exemption have already cancelled orders. Consumers will soon find that many things they need won’t be available at any price. For Apple, having the exemptions is better than not having the exemptions, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. The chaos created by this administration will harm Apple anyway. Your fantasy world where this is all ok doesn’t actually exist. 
    You do the right thing because it’s right. Not because it’s simple or easy to do. More often than not, it’s rather difficult and those around you prefer the easy way, even if it only defers disaster. Things were getting out of hand. Some had been that way for a while. And it doesn’t stop at trade imbalances. We start seeing abuse like the eu with apple.. next thing we knew, all kinds of governments were looking to take their own bite out of apple. These recent actions put the world on notice: not only will trade imbalances need to be more equitable, but leveraging financial consequences to stem abuse in other ways is quite a powerful tool when needed. All of a sudden the eu is very careful about slapping more fines on Apple. With tariffs, foreign goods get more expensive, leading to a glut of unsold items when consumers buy elsewhere. That hurts the seller much more than the buyer. It’s supply and demand. When demand dries up, the supplier is left having wasted money on unsold inventory. The supply will be provided elsewhere, buying habits change, etc. and yet Apple does seem to be in the enviable position of avoiding most, if not all, of that. Everyone has an opinion, but time will tell of course. 
    You're making a lot of presumptions here. 

    "You do the right thing because it’s right. Not because it’s simple or easy to do."

    This would be a more meaningful if this administration's tariff policy was actually defensible. What they are doing is not "right," and in fact, the ridiculous formula they used to create what they falsely claimed to be "reciprocal" tariffs only shows that they did what was easy - for themselves - to generate their chart of tariffs. Also easy for them was the default 10% applied to every country (except Russia) without regard to whether there were any "trade deficits" or documented "abuses" at all. So from the start, your premise is false.

    "Things were getting out of hand."

    Here you're referencing the emergency that wasn't an emergency. You inadvertently give that up with your next sentence.

    "Some had been that way for a while."

    Things that are getting out of hand and have been that way for a while may require a response, but the gradual nature implicit in the description strongly suggests that any response should be well thought out and measured, not impulsive and reactive. There may be a problem, but it's clearly not a sudden emergency. It is actually possible to use bold tactics to implement a careful strategy. Alienating the entire world, including our closest allies before attempting to take on our largest trade "opponent" is not that. It's pure foolishness. 

    "These recent actions put the world on notice".

    They did indeed. The world has been notified that the United States is no longer a reliable trading partner or ally. They have also been notified that the administration's actions are not based on actual facts and conditions, and that responses giving the US administration exactly what they say they want will likely be rebuffed anyway, so why capitulate early?

    "With tariffs, foreign goods get more expensive, leading to a glut of unsold items when consumers buy elsewhere. That hurts the seller much more than the buyer."

    You are making the false assumption that foreign manufacturers produce items on spec with no buyer identified. It's pretty doubtful that this happens in manufacturing*. Also, in many cases, there is no "elsewhere" available for consumers. In the next couple of months, there will be many headlines about products that US consumers want and need that cannot be found at any price.

    For goods already ordered by US importers, there is almost certainly a contract in place. The company that placed an order before tariffs were imposed is almost certainly obligated to pay for those items. If they refuse and renege on their contract, even if the tariffs are all dropped a week later, that importer will no longer have any credit with the foreign manufacturer they refused to pay. So they'll probably pay the manufacturer for orders already placed. The question then becomes, can the importer pay the tax required before receiving the items, or will they have to eat the loss and leave the product on the ship? If the tariff is 145%, and the importer knows they can't sell the items for 2 1/2 times the normal price, they lose considerably less money by paying the manufacturer and abandoning the purchase before paying the tariff. 

    *On the other hand, in agriculture, season-long lead times and the variabilities of weather mean farmers have to plant speculatively. China isn't paying up front for soybeans that haven't been planted and harvested yet. The US farmer that has been selling soybeans to China in the past is shouldering that risk. Many have already bought seed and many of those may have planted already. So as China retaliates in the tariff war, the US farmer must decide if they risk spending more money to water, fertilize, grow and harvest their soybeans in hopes that things will be resolved by then, or do they cut their losses now and plow the crop under?

    You're right that "supply and demand" are at play here, but you're grievously misguided in your belief that these actions are more painful "over there" than they are here. Nobody wins a tariff war.
    muthuk_vanalingamFileMakerFeller9secondkox2dewmewatto_cobra
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  • Reply 13 of 14
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,439member
    AppleZulu said:
    AppleZulu said:
    Cook can’t help but be happy about that. 

    Tariffs could have hit them hard. But they have been treated well. Hopefully it continues.

    looking forward to iPhone 17 and am m5 max MacBook Pro 16” if a large iMac doesn’t materialize by end of winter. Been looking forward to apple prices heading toward back to reality in pricing now that the covid uncertainty and shutdowns has been over for a while. Then the tariffs came, but also seems to be done in a way that could enable healthier pricing (for the consumer - it’s already been healthy for apple). Wanted to hold out for m6 in 2nm, but I don’t know if I can wait much longer. 


    The on-again-off-again-even-more-on-again tariff regime is already creating economic instability that won’t be stoppable even if a total “off-again” pronouncement comes tomorrow. Businesses that didn’t get an exemption have already cancelled orders. Consumers will soon find that many things they need won’t be available at any price. For Apple, having the exemptions is better than not having the exemptions, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. The chaos created by this administration will harm Apple anyway. Your fantasy world where this is all ok doesn’t actually exist. 
    You do the right thing because it’s right. Not because it’s simple or easy to do. More often than not, it’s rather difficult and those around you prefer the easy way, even if it only defers disaster. Things were getting out of hand. Some had been that way for a while. And it doesn’t stop at trade imbalances. We start seeing abuse like the eu with apple.. next thing we knew, all kinds of governments were looking to take their own bite out of apple. These recent actions put the world on notice: not only will trade imbalances need to be more equitable, but leveraging financial consequences to stem abuse in other ways is quite a powerful tool when needed. All of a sudden the eu is very careful about slapping more fines on Apple. With tariffs, foreign goods get more expensive, leading to a glut of unsold items when consumers buy elsewhere. That hurts the seller much more than the buyer. It’s supply and demand. When demand dries up, the supplier is left having wasted money on unsold inventory. The supply will be provided elsewhere, buying habits change, etc. and yet Apple does seem to be in the enviable position of avoiding most, if not all, of that. Everyone has an opinion, but time will tell of course. 
    You're making a lot of presumptions here. 

    "You do the right thing because it’s right. Not because it’s simple or easy to do."

    This would be a more meaningful if this administration's tariff policy was actually defensible. What they are doing is not "right," and in fact, the ridiculous formula they used to create what they falsely claimed to be "reciprocal" tariffs only shows that they did what was easy - for themselves - to generate their chart of tariffs. Also easy for them was the default 10% applied to every country (except Russia) without regard to whether there were any "trade deficits" or documented "abuses" at all. So from the start, your premise is false.

    "Things were getting out of hand."

    Here you're referencing the emergency that wasn't an emergency. You inadvertently give that up with your next sentence.

    "Some had been that way for a while."

    Things that are getting out of hand and have been that way for a while may require a response, but the gradual nature implicit in the description strongly suggests that any response should be well thought out and measured, not impulsive and reactive. There may be a problem, but it's clearly not a sudden emergency. It is actually possible to use bold tactics to implement a careful strategy. Alienating the entire world, including our closest allies before attempting to take on our largest trade "opponent" is not that. It's pure foolishness. 

    "These recent actions put the world on notice".

    They did indeed. The world has been notified that the United States is no longer a reliable trading partner or ally. They have also been notified that the administration's actions are not based on actual facts and conditions, and that responses giving the US administration exactly what they say they want will likely be rebuffed anyway, so why capitulate early?

    "With tariffs, foreign goods get more expensive, leading to a glut of unsold items when consumers buy elsewhere. That hurts the seller much more than the buyer."

    You are making the false assumption that foreign manufacturers produce items on spec with no buyer identified. It's pretty doubtful that this happens in manufacturing*. Also, in many cases, there is no "elsewhere" available for consumers. In the next couple of months, there will be many headlines about products that US consumers want and need that cannot be found at any price.

    For goods already ordered by US importers, there is almost certainly a contract in place. The company that placed an order before tariffs were imposed is almost certainly obligated to pay for those items. If they refuse and renege on their contract, even if the tariffs are all dropped a week later, that importer will no longer have any credit with the foreign manufacturer they refused to pay. So they'll probably pay the manufacturer for orders already placed. The question then becomes, can the importer pay the tax required before receiving the items, or will they have to eat the loss and leave the product on the ship? If the tariff is 145%, and the importer knows they can't sell the items for 2 1/2 times the normal price, they lose considerably less money by paying the manufacturer and abandoning the purchase before paying the tariff. 

    *On the other hand, in agriculture, season-long lead times and the variabilities of weather mean farmers have to plant speculatively. China isn't paying up front for soybeans that haven't been planted and harvested yet. The US farmer that has been selling soybeans to China in the past is shouldering that risk. Many have already bought seed and many of those may have planted already. So as China retaliates in the tariff war, the US farmer must decide if they risk spending more money to water, fertilize, grow and harvest their soybeans in hopes that things will be resolved by then, or do they cut their losses now and plow the crop under?

    You're right that "supply and demand" are at play here, but you're grievously misguided in your belief that these actions are more painful "over there" than they are here. Nobody wins a tariff war.
    That’s some impressive acrobatics. 

    It’s simple. Much of the world has had tarriffs on our goods for a very long time, while we stood by and did hardly anything. No more. We are now leveling the playing field. In any kind of deal, you strive for equity to ensure your value is met. Whether that is the process of a Ford vs the price of a BMW, eggs, toilet paper, a MacBook Pro, etc. so if you’re willing to pay the tarriffs, then that’s how much that product meant to you. But many won’t. And that will cause the seller to adjust their stance. The USA is the largest consumer economy in the world. That’s power. Heck, even apple charges app developers for being on the iOS ecosystem. And everyone wants a piece of that market. This is the same principle on a grand scale - only it’s not out of a simple profit plan. It’s to create fairness. We could easily drop the tarriffs if the greedy countries dropped theirs. That’s why there are deals being made. It’s absolute bizarro world to think that American consumers don’t wield that kind of power. And countries like China are beholden to it. It’s how they go where they are to begin with. 
    AppleZuluwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 14 of 14
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,433member
    AppleZulu said:
    AppleZulu said:
    Cook can’t help but be happy about that. 

    Tariffs could have hit them hard. But they have been treated well. Hopefully it continues.

    looking forward to iPhone 17 and am m5 max MacBook Pro 16” if a large iMac doesn’t materialize by end of winter. Been looking forward to apple prices heading toward back to reality in pricing now that the covid uncertainty and shutdowns has been over for a while. Then the tariffs came, but also seems to be done in a way that could enable healthier pricing (for the consumer - it’s already been healthy for apple). Wanted to hold out for m6 in 2nm, but I don’t know if I can wait much longer. 


    The on-again-off-again-even-more-on-again tariff regime is already creating economic instability that won’t be stoppable even if a total “off-again” pronouncement comes tomorrow. Businesses that didn’t get an exemption have already cancelled orders. Consumers will soon find that many things they need won’t be available at any price. For Apple, having the exemptions is better than not having the exemptions, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. The chaos created by this administration will harm Apple anyway. Your fantasy world where this is all ok doesn’t actually exist. 
    You do the right thing because it’s right. Not because it’s simple or easy to do. More often than not, it’s rather difficult and those around you prefer the easy way, even if it only defers disaster. Things were getting out of hand. Some had been that way for a while. And it doesn’t stop at trade imbalances. We start seeing abuse like the eu with apple.. next thing we knew, all kinds of governments were looking to take their own bite out of apple. These recent actions put the world on notice: not only will trade imbalances need to be more equitable, but leveraging financial consequences to stem abuse in other ways is quite a powerful tool when needed. All of a sudden the eu is very careful about slapping more fines on Apple. With tariffs, foreign goods get more expensive, leading to a glut of unsold items when consumers buy elsewhere. That hurts the seller much more than the buyer. It’s supply and demand. When demand dries up, the supplier is left having wasted money on unsold inventory. The supply will be provided elsewhere, buying habits change, etc. and yet Apple does seem to be in the enviable position of avoiding most, if not all, of that. Everyone has an opinion, but time will tell of course. 
    You're making a lot of presumptions here. 

    "You do the right thing because it’s right. Not because it’s simple or easy to do."

    This would be a more meaningful if this administration's tariff policy was actually defensible. What they are doing is not "right," and in fact, the ridiculous formula they used to create what they falsely claimed to be "reciprocal" tariffs only shows that they did what was easy - for themselves - to generate their chart of tariffs. Also easy for them was the default 10% applied to every country (except Russia) without regard to whether there were any "trade deficits" or documented "abuses" at all. So from the start, your premise is false.

    "Things were getting out of hand."

    Here you're referencing the emergency that wasn't an emergency. You inadvertently give that up with your next sentence.

    "Some had been that way for a while."

    Things that are getting out of hand and have been that way for a while may require a response, but the gradual nature implicit in the description strongly suggests that any response should be well thought out and measured, not impulsive and reactive. There may be a problem, but it's clearly not a sudden emergency. It is actually possible to use bold tactics to implement a careful strategy. Alienating the entire world, including our closest allies before attempting to take on our largest trade "opponent" is not that. It's pure foolishness. 

    "These recent actions put the world on notice".

    They did indeed. The world has been notified that the United States is no longer a reliable trading partner or ally. They have also been notified that the administration's actions are not based on actual facts and conditions, and that responses giving the US administration exactly what they say they want will likely be rebuffed anyway, so why capitulate early?

    "With tariffs, foreign goods get more expensive, leading to a glut of unsold items when consumers buy elsewhere. That hurts the seller much more than the buyer."

    You are making the false assumption that foreign manufacturers produce items on spec with no buyer identified. It's pretty doubtful that this happens in manufacturing*. Also, in many cases, there is no "elsewhere" available for consumers. In the next couple of months, there will be many headlines about products that US consumers want and need that cannot be found at any price.

    For goods already ordered by US importers, there is almost certainly a contract in place. The company that placed an order before tariffs were imposed is almost certainly obligated to pay for those items. If they refuse and renege on their contract, even if the tariffs are all dropped a week later, that importer will no longer have any credit with the foreign manufacturer they refused to pay. So they'll probably pay the manufacturer for orders already placed. The question then becomes, can the importer pay the tax required before receiving the items, or will they have to eat the loss and leave the product on the ship? If the tariff is 145%, and the importer knows they can't sell the items for 2 1/2 times the normal price, they lose considerably less money by paying the manufacturer and abandoning the purchase before paying the tariff. 

    *On the other hand, in agriculture, season-long lead times and the variabilities of weather mean farmers have to plant speculatively. China isn't paying up front for soybeans that haven't been planted and harvested yet. The US farmer that has been selling soybeans to China in the past is shouldering that risk. Many have already bought seed and many of those may have planted already. So as China retaliates in the tariff war, the US farmer must decide if they risk spending more money to water, fertilize, grow and harvest their soybeans in hopes that things will be resolved by then, or do they cut their losses now and plow the crop under?

    You're right that "supply and demand" are at play here, but you're grievously misguided in your belief that these actions are more painful "over there" than they are here. Nobody wins a tariff war.
    That’s some impressive acrobatics. 

    It’s simple. Much of the world has had tarriffs on our goods for a very long time, while we stood by and did hardly anything. No more. We are now leveling the playing field. In any kind of deal, you strive for equity to ensure your value is met. Whether that is the process of a Ford vs the price of a BMW, eggs, toilet paper, a MacBook Pro, etc. so if you’re willing to pay the tarriffs, then that’s how much that product meant to you. But many won’t. And that will cause the seller to adjust their stance. The USA is the largest consumer economy in the world. That’s power. Heck, even apple charges app developers for being on the iOS ecosystem. And everyone wants a piece of that market. This is the same principle on a grand scale - only it’s not out of a simple profit plan. It’s to create fairness. We could easily drop the tarriffs if the greedy countries dropped theirs. That’s why there are deals being made. It’s absolute bizarro world to think that American consumers don’t wield that kind of power. And countries like China are beholden to it. It’s how they go where they are to begin with. 
    "Acrobatics"? You should look up the term projection, and then engage in some introspective thought.

    Of course other countries want access to the US consumer market. No one is even denying that some countries have engaged in unfair trade practices. 

    The point that you are continually ignoring is that this administration's approach is detrimental to improving those trade practices. Being effective at breaking things does not imply there is any particular aptitude for fixing them after they are broken.

    You parrot the talking point that "deals are being made." What deals are being made? Israel, Vietnam and others offered the Trump administration exactly what they said they wanted -total capitulation- and have already been rebuffed. No deal. What deals are being made? If your answer is it's secret, or it's still in process or some similar variation, then go ahead and retract your claim that deals are being made. No deals have been made, and low-hanging fruit that could have been used as "proof" deals can be made were tossed aside. But everything has been smashed. Every country, including those inhabited only by penguins, has been penalized (except Russia), assuring that we have no more friends in the world. This in turn weakens our position in negotiating presumably our greatest trade dispute with China. If we still had any friends, we'd have more leverage to force a better deal with China. Now, our former friends are looking at China and wondering if maybe they're the more stable trading partner. A month ago, China was the international pariah, but Trump's impulsiveness now make the US the pariah and elevates China's position on the world stage. 

    It's entertaining that while you accurately point out that "the USA is the largest consumer economy in the world," you continue to misunderstand that this means we should expect -as part of fair trade- that we will buy more from many countries than they buy from us. Much of this trade war is based on the false premise that a trade deficit with any given country is necessarily "bad." It's exactly this false premise that has caused the Trump Administration to undercut its own position by penalizing friends and allies.

    So sure, the US has power stemming from its position as a buyer of things, but we have considerably less power now than we did just a few weeks ago. 
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
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