Stabitha_Christie said: He and Musk were going to cut 2 trillion from the federal budget. DOGE has saved 170 billion but it spent 135 billion to do it. So 2 trillion actually turned out to be 35 billion.
It's even worse than that. The DOGE firings at the IRS are estimated to result in a $500 billion drop in tax revenue.
These comments, "it is impossible", are frankly BS and why we are facing the problems we are facing now.
The truth will end up somewhere in the middle. Many companies CAN do more here in the US. As Americans we have
become addicted to cheap labor at our own long term expense. We can do MORE in the USA. Maybe some things
don't make sense, but we have to realize that many of the "cheap" products we are buying, are part of why our national
debt is getting cranked up. We are paying, whether we see it out the cashier or not. We are also paying a lot for many
middle men in Pharmaceuticals, Health Care, Education and more. There are a lot of unproductive people out there
leaching off the American taxpayer. If I have to pay $500 more for an iPhone and it starts to bring down our debt, so
be it. Bash Trump all you want. He's the only President in recent history to have the balls to face these facts and at
least TRY to do something about the problems. It takes a BIG PUSHER to move BIG BUREAUCRACIES and the status
quo. The middle men will not give up their loot easily.
Finally a post with common sense.
It’s not an easy thing to change entrenched methods - especially when they span global geography, governments, economies, and ideals. But for America, it’s important to get moving in this direction. And it’s important to msnufacturers at home. Not everything of course, but a good chunk. Finally we have a leader with the backbone to take the jabs and arrows of the naysayers and haters who could care less about selling out their country if it means they can have a cheap iPhone.
The president knows cook doesn’t run Foxconn but he also knows cook is influential at Foxconn. And Foxconn opening factories in other countries outside china is a good thing. But when there is little to no action in America, I get the disappointment.
Still, Foxconn is a Taiwanese company and Taiwan is constantly threatened by China. If Taiwanese companies don’t take steps to ensure they remain indispensable to the world, tje world may not be there for them when China gets more aggressive. So those moves are understandable if disappointing for other reasons.
But the tarriffs appear to be having the desired effect and have brought stubborn and sbusive parties to the negotiating table. Not bad for not yet four months in office.
and the president did say it was a “little issue” not huge. Not crazy. Just something on his radar. As anyone would expect. So we will see what moves Tim, Foxconn, and others make in the coming months.
He and Musk were going to cut 2 trillion from the federal budget. DOGE has saved 170 billion but it spent 135 billion to do it. So 2 trillion actually turned out to be 35 billion.
GDP is negative.
Hiring has slowed.
Inflation has continued.
Seriously, take a moment and offer actual facts on how American’s lives haves improved because of his actions. Not your usual assortment of platitudes, but actual data.
Let’s not forget that the short term money saved was from destroying the livelihoods of hardworking Americans and the long term effects of destroying programs that help Americans have yet to be felt.
That was just another grift poorly packaged as something altruistic. You really have to be a dumb cult member to fall for that one.
Not only helped Americans but helped pursue American interests abroad. The amount of goodwill we have squandered internationally is incredible and it has only allowed China to further grow its sphere of influence internationally. The Belt and Road Initiative has been incredibly successful and thanks to DOGE and Dear Leader cutting things like USAID, it will only be more successful. We have needed international leadership to China, but good news! Our tariff on them is larger than their tariff on us!!! We have given up our global influence in favor of paying 30% more for socks and underwear. Behold, it's the art of the deal!!!
Ok guys, the usual offenders are derailing the forum comments. Please refrain from generalities and unspecific worship without hard numbers. That goes for both sides. No need for insults, slights, or ad hominems of any kind.
And no, just stating that you believe something (an opinion) isn't a fact. Sharing that things are better/worse without citing numbers, resources might as well be making stuff up. No, I don't mean you have to link to sources, but a well educated person should be able to see your comment and verify the data.
It's the difference between "Trump tariffs ruined us before and they are ruining us again" versus "Tariffs caused sod prices to skyrocket resulting in billions in government bailouts to farmers in 2019, and the overall economy has dropped for the first time in years thanks to tariffs in 2025"
One is more of a feeling, accurate or not, the other is facts and figures that can easily be searched and have a tangible value and result. If you're going to go back and forth, stick to provable facts or don't bother chatting. All you're doing is stirring up people and making forum threads turn into a mess.
idk what's happened this past week, but you all were doing so well with this and have taken a big step back. Let's keep up the good work and keep forums civil and informative.
Edit: I actually deleted a post that was reasonable, (sorry Stabitha). I'm leaving the original two comments in the thread because they didn't break any forum rules and stated their opinions. It was the discourse that followed that got out of hand. Feel free to reply again to these posts cordially and with facts while avoiding any direct attacks. These get us nowhere. I hope I don't need to revisit this thread.
Ok guys, the usual offenders are derailing the forum comments. Please refrain from generalities and unspecific worship without hard numbers. That goes for both sides. No need for insults, slights, or ad hominems of any kind.
And no, just stating that you believe something (an opinion) isn't a fact. Sharing that things are better/worse without citing numbers, resources might as well be making stuff up. No, I don't mean you have to link to sources, but a well educated person should be able to see your comment and verify the data.
It's the difference between "Trump tariffs ruined us before and they are ruining us again" versus "Tariffs caused sod prices to skyrocket resulting in billions in government bailouts to farmers in 2019, and the overall economy has dropped for the first time in years thanks to tariffs in 2025"
One is more of a feeling, accurate or not, the other is facts and figures that can easily be searched and have a tangible value and result. If you're going to go back and forth, stick to provable facts or don't bother chatting. All you're doing is stirring up people and making forum threads turn into a mess.
idk what's happened this past week, but you all were doing so well with this and have taken a big step back. Let's keep up the good work and keep forums civil and informative.
Edit: I actually deleted a post that was reasonable, (sorry Stabitha). I'm leaving the original two comments in the thread because they didn't break any forum rules and stated their opinions. It was the discourse that followed that got out of hand. Feel free to reply again to these posts cordially and with facts while avoiding any direct attacks. These get us nowhere. I hope I don't need to revisit this thread.
I got no issues with my comment(s) being deleted. I appreciate that y'all want to maintain a level of decorum while allowing people to express themselves in different ways. It is why I will participate in the forums here and not on a certain site whose name rhymes with MacRumors.
I will offer a small quibble. Gaslighting by posing something as an opinion is a pretty common approach on the internet machine. Gaslighting by definition is being dishonest. I feel like both comments fall fully under gaslighting. Just my 2c. Anyway, your comment section is your rules. Happy to do my best to follow them. Cheers!
These comments, "it is impossible", are frankly BS and why we are facing the problems we are facing now. The truth will end up somewhere in the middle. Many companies CAN do more here in the US. As Americans we have become addicted to cheap labor at our own long term expense. We can do MORE in the USA. Maybe some things don't make sense, but we have to realize that many of the "cheap" products we are buying, are part of why our national debt is getting cranked up. We are paying, whether we see it out the cashier or not. We are also paying a lot for many middle men in Pharmaceuticals, Health Care, Education and more. There are a lot of unproductive people out there leaching off the American taxpayer. If I have to pay $500 more for an iPhone and it starts to bring down our debt, so be it. Bash Trump all you want. He's the only President in recent history to have the balls to face these facts and at least TRY to do something about the problems. It takes a BIG PUSHER to move BIG BUREAUCRACIES and the status quo. The middle men will not give up their loot easily.
Finally a post with common sense.
Really?
"It is impossible" -- a short form way of saying it is financially imprudent for a CEO to suggest such a thing because it will cause the company to loose a great deal of money, the CEO will loose their job, and the next CEO won't even suggest it -- so in short impossible is a good choice of words.
"Many companies can do more here in the US." -- Yes they can. They could also just liquidate their companies and give the money to their stockholders, but that isn't what most companies are in business for, though it has been done in the past.
"As Americans we have become addicted to cheap labor..." -- Since we're talking about Apple I'll point out that what their suppliers are paying in labor isn't all that cheap in relative terms. The labor is very skilled, which means it's not cheap. Skilled labor, by the way, that doesn't exist in the United States. Maybe the federal government could increase funding for education to help provide that labor. Oh, wait, the plan is to get rid of the Department of Education., so that's not going to happen.
"...are part of why our national debt is getting cranked up..." -- Just no, that is not how the national debt works at all. The national debt is the amount of money the federal government has borrowed to cover the outstanding balance of expenses incurred over time. How would that be reduced by companies moving things to the US where they will be more expensive to make. Those expense will be going to equipment and labor costs, not to pay down the national debt. If anything it might even cause the national debt to go up because revenue for those companies would likely go down due to expenses resulting them paying less in taxes, they would have additional business costs which they would write off their taxes. Sure income tax for the new labors would increase paid taxes but certainly not by the amounts the companies would be taking off their taxes. Additionally, the companies would have to borrow the money to startup the factories which would increase the overall money supply and over all debt, which is of questionable help to the overall economy...
"We are also paying a lot of middle men..." -- Standard conservative opinion that is of questionable truth, but the big thing is what has that got to do with anything with regards to Apple making products in the United States rather than other countries? I guess Apple's non-owned and operated retailers are middlemen, but here in the United States, they are mostly US companies, employing US workers. I suppose in a sense Apple is a middleman because they don't actually make most of their products but... I just don't get your point.
"There are a lot of unproductive people out there leaching off the American taxpayer." -- Again nothing to do with the conversation but being a liberal that lives in a majority liberal state that in aggregate pays significantly more in taxes to the federal government than the money sends back to my state, so that my taxes can go to the many majority conservative states that in aggregate get more in money from the federal government than they pay in taxes, maybe I can/should agree with this one.
"If I have to pay $500 more for an iPhone and it starts to bring down our debt, so be it." --- First I don't believe you. You won't pay $500 more because if you would you'd already be sending that $500 to the federal government directly as an add on to your taxes, after all there is a place to make a contribution on your tax forms. But you're not doing that either, are you, so this statement simply isn't true, is it? And, again, it isn't going to impact the national debt because by definition it would be simply be going to the higher cost of manufacturing in the US.
"Bash Trump all you want." -- Okay, Donald Trump is an apparent pathological liar, a failed business man who has run numerous companies in to bankruptcy, a racist, a sexist, a mysoginist, a convicted felon, a serial sexual predator, a man that has committed acts of espionage against the US... I could go on, but you said bash him, and I don't think that repeating FACTS about him as determined by the courts and his own statements amounts to "bashing him."
"...only President in recent history to have the balls to face these facts..." -- What facts? You haven't presented any facts, just your opinions and the repeated mindless conservative drivel that so many people seem to believe because they apparently don't want to think for themselves.
The reality is that Donald Trump seems to like chaos. There is a school of thought that believes that a business gets the best outcomes from chaos. (You can google that if you want.) The thing is, the economy as a whole hates chaos. In simple terms it makes planning and investment extremely difficult and extremely risky. (You can google that too.)
Really, it appears that Donald Trump doesn't even understand what a tariff is. He keeps saying foreign countries pay them, but that isn't true at all (okay, it's a lie). Tariffs are a tax paid by the residents of the country that has applied the tariff. Tariffs have their place as part of an organized approach to building or protecting acting a specific industry, but that isn't what he's doing. He had his flunkies make up some otherwise meaningless numbers that they turned into a percentage, and he started a trade war with the rest of the world. Of course slowly, he has returned a few areas back to almost where they were in the beginning, declared victory, and said "Oh, look how great I am!"
Of course, I recognize the real truth here... neither 9secondcox2 nor jesusfreak are going to read this and even if they do they won't believe it, they'll call it all lies and liberal BS and say I don't know anything about what I am talking about. (That is unless it just outright gets deleted by an admin for some questionable reason.)
The fact is, right now, the way things are going, we (the entire world, though the US in particular) are royally and definitely fucked. If not because of the damage being done by this president and his minions, by the tens of millions of people in this country that don't believe in the value of expertise, science, facts, reality, the law, or the constitution anymore and think this guy is the greatest president the US has ever seen and he is going to Make America Great Again -- a slogan, which of course he stole from someone else (you can Google that too).
Ok guys, the usual offenders are derailing the forum comments. Please refrain from generalities and unspecific worship without hard numbers. That goes for both sides. No need for insults, slights, or ad hominems of any kind.
And no, just stating that you believe something (an opinion) isn't a fact. Sharing that things are better/worse without citing numbers, resources might as well be making stuff up. No, I don't mean you have to link to sources, but a well educated person should be able to see your comment and verify the data.
It's the difference between "Trump tariffs ruined us before and they are ruining us again" versus "Tariffs caused sod prices to skyrocket resulting in billions in government bailouts to farmers in 2019, and the overall economy has dropped for the first time in years thanks to tariffs in 2025"
One is more of a feeling, accurate or not, the other is facts and figures that can easily be searched and have a tangible value and result. If you're going to go back and forth, stick to provable facts or don't bother chatting. All you're doing is stirring up people and making forum threads turn into a mess.
idk what's happened this past week, but you all were doing so well with this and have taken a big step back. Let's keep up the good work and keep forums civil and informative.
Edit: I actually deleted a post that was reasonable, (sorry Stabitha). I'm leaving the original two comments in the thread because they didn't break any forum rules and stated their opinions. It was the discourse that followed that got out of hand. Feel free to reply again to these posts cordially and with facts while avoiding any direct attacks. These get us nowhere. I hope I don't need to revisit this thread.
I got no issues with my comment(s) being deleted. I appreciate that y'all want to maintain a level of decorum while allowing people to express themselves in different ways. It is why I will participate in the forums here and not on a certain site whose name rhymes with MacRumors.
I will offer a small quibble. Gaslighting by posing something as an opinion is a pretty common approach on the internet machine. Gaslighting by definition is being dishonest. I feel like both comments fall fully under gaslighting. Just my 2c. Anyway, your comment section is your rules. Happy to do my best to follow them. Cheers!
I'm not sure they believe they're being dishonest. As forum moderators, we don't get to decide what we believe forum goers are thinking or their motive behind a post. We can only take it at face value. While some might disagree with the content, it didn't violate any rules against hateful speech. You're allowed to post incorrect information and be wrong in our forums. Now, if other forum members want to point out inaccuracies, go for it, as long as it all remains civil.
Besides, I believe we've got a pretty smart bunch in our forums and likely have a strong BS detector. While some posts that remain up are unfortunate and likely contain terrible inaccuracies, I don't believe anyone that's actually informed will "fall for it." And while some will respond and point out those inaccuracies, others will rely on the like/dislike feature, which seems to be doing a good job at giving forum goers a decent idea of what the majority of our members believe.
Seems like a hard concept for you to understand Foxconn builds plants at the direction of Apple, for use exclusively by Apple
Opinions are labeled. This was not an opinion.
Apple might have meetings to suggest it wants to diversify its supply chain outside of China, but it doesn't get a final say in where factories are built. Besides, India is the go-to right now outside of China. This isn't some political choice, but a financial one. And if Apple were making the call, it would still be India.
If you've got any information that indicates otherwise, I'd be happy to see it.
But the tarriffs appear to be having the desired effect and have brought stubborn and sbusive parties to the negotiating table. Not bad for not yet four months in office.
You're absolutely right! The stubborn and abusive Trump was forced to the bargaining table when the chaos of his senseless, on again/off again tariffs produced fierce backlash from American business leaders, protests from voters, a dive in the stock market, a dive in his poll numbers and constant warnings about a fast-approaching recession or worse, stagflation. So he blinked and blinked and blinked again, touting a meaningless "deal" with China that simply had both countries rolling back the recent tariff increases that Trump started. And what concessions did Trump get from the Chinese to compensate for the economic insanity he has imposed on America? Nothing! Not a damned thing! This was another classic chapter from his book, The Art of the Dope.
A smart president--which excludes Trump--would have brought together the biggest economies of the free world to take on China together to drive a hard bargain. Trump's, cough, "strategy" was to turn America into the new global supervillain and to take on China, very unsuccessfully, alone. Trump, as usual, lied to his gullible followers, claiming the tariffs were all about bringing manufacturing back to America! EXCEPT... the levels to which he has dropped tariffs after pooping his shorts from the backlash they've produced in America aren't nearly high enough to persuade any company to shift their manufacturing here. That's just a fact. They will only serve as an additional tax on consumers, and Trump will use the revenue that extra tax generates to give more tax cuts to his billionaire buddies.
Here's a thought for MAGA: instead of waiting for the economy of the 1950s to return, how about getting yourselves trained for 21st century jobs? Oh but wait... when would you have time to whine about how you've been victimized by immigrants and globalization if you had to spend it acquiring skills that would qualify you for the better paying jobs of today?
Comments
I mean, in all honestly, we can all safely assume that wherever we think things are, they are worse.
Not only helped Americans but helped pursue American interests abroad. The amount of goodwill we have squandered internationally is incredible and it has only allowed China to further grow its sphere of influence internationally. The Belt and Road Initiative has been incredibly successful and thanks to DOGE and Dear Leader cutting things like USAID, it will only be more successful. We have needed international leadership to China, but good news! Our tariff on them is larger than their tariff on us!!! We have given up our global influence in favor of paying 30% more for socks and underwear. Behold, it's the art of the deal!!!
And no, just stating that you believe something (an opinion) isn't a fact. Sharing that things are better/worse without citing numbers, resources might as well be making stuff up. No, I don't mean you have to link to sources, but a well educated person should be able to see your comment and verify the data.
It's the difference between "Trump tariffs ruined us before and they are ruining us again" versus "Tariffs caused sod prices to skyrocket resulting in billions in government bailouts to farmers in 2019, and the overall economy has dropped for the first time in years thanks to tariffs in 2025"
One is more of a feeling, accurate or not, the other is facts and figures that can easily be searched and have a tangible value and result. If you're going to go back and forth, stick to provable facts or don't bother chatting. All you're doing is stirring up people and making forum threads turn into a mess.
idk what's happened this past week, but you all were doing so well with this and have taken a big step back. Let's keep up the good work and keep forums civil and informative.
Edit: I actually deleted a post that was reasonable, (sorry Stabitha). I'm leaving the original two comments in the thread because they didn't break any forum rules and stated their opinions. It was the discourse that followed that got out of hand. Feel free to reply again to these posts cordially and with facts while avoiding any direct attacks. These get us nowhere. I hope I don't need to revisit this thread.
Seems like a hard concept for you to understand Foxconn builds plants at the direction of Apple, for use exclusively by Apple
I will offer a small quibble. Gaslighting by posing something as an opinion is a pretty common approach on the internet machine. Gaslighting by definition is being dishonest. I feel like both comments fall fully under gaslighting. Just my 2c. Anyway, your comment section is your rules. Happy to do my best to follow them. Cheers!
Apple might have meetings to suggest it wants to diversify its supply chain outside of China, but it doesn't get a final say in where factories are built. Besides, India is the go-to right now outside of China. This isn't some political choice, but a financial one. And if Apple were making the call, it would still be India.
If you've got any information that indicates otherwise, I'd be happy to see it.
Unproductive people? Who are they?
"if I have to pay $500 more..." does not matter. It's not about you and your wishful thinking.
And no, Trump doesn't know what he's talking about.
A smart president--which excludes Trump--would have brought together the biggest economies of the free world to take on China together to drive a hard bargain. Trump's, cough, "strategy" was to turn America into the new global supervillain and to take on China, very unsuccessfully, alone. Trump, as usual, lied to his gullible followers, claiming the tariffs were all about bringing manufacturing back to America! EXCEPT... the levels to which he has dropped tariffs after pooping his shorts from the backlash they've produced in America aren't nearly high enough to persuade any company to shift their manufacturing here. That's just a fact. They will only serve as an additional tax on consumers, and Trump will use the revenue that extra tax generates to give more tax cuts to his billionaire buddies.
Here's a thought for MAGA: instead of waiting for the economy of the 1950s to return, how about getting yourselves trained for 21st century jobs? Oh but wait... when would you have time to whine about how you've been victimized by immigrants and globalization if you had to spend it acquiring skills that would qualify you for the better paying jobs of today?