There will continue to be a limit on things like multitasking. iPads are sealed devices with no means to cool the processor. They can be powerful devices, but there are physical limitations that define their separation from Macs. MacBook Air has passive venting, and as you move up the Mac line you’ll find bigger and bigger fans for dissipation of heat. Apple designs the OS to serve the hardware, and so there will continue to be things that Macs do and iPads don’t do, and vice-versa.
The latest Surface Pro 12 is a sealed, fanless device. And based in the reviews, it has no issues at all with light tasks and multitasking. I don't think the iPad / iPad Pro would have any issues at all.
… so we have this idea keep popping up. While a touchscreen on a notebook sounds fine and dandy (ignoring for a moment the clusterf*** of using touch to control a menu-driven OS), a touchscreen interface on a desktop Mac would be an ergonomic nightmare and orders of magnitude worse on a multi-screen Mac Pro workstation. And before we start imagining a solution involving the bloatware of alternate user interfaces within the same operating system, let’s just remember that Windows does that for the Surface, and it’s well-proven to be nothing Apple should replicate.
So as you can see, while Apple leans into refinements that bridge the boundaries between product lines, there are actual reasons for the boundaries between product lines. Thus far, Apple has maintained the wisdom not to toss aside their core design principles in order to try to accommodate Apple fan fiction fantasies, and hopefully they will maintain that wisdom well into the future.
That "ergonomic nightmare" you describe is what we have with the iPad and the Magic Keyboard. You don't need to do everything with touch; it's just to complement the trackpad.
When comparing the Surface and iPad, both have their pros and cons. As a tablet, the iPad is arguably the best on the market, but when it comes to using a device as a laptop or desktop replacement, the Surface stands out. It offers better multitasking, full-featured apps, and multi-monitor support. Plus, Microsoft provides the Surface Dock for a complete desktop experience. Ultimately, both are excellent devices, and the choice depends on how you plan to use them.
The iPad and keyboard are not analogous to the ergonomic noghtmare of a desktop computer with a touchscreen.
I have a coworker with a Surface and dock. He sometimes asks for help to get it to do things. It’s an unintuitive mess as a far as I can tell.
You comment shows your point of view of touchscreen PC's and notebooks. My point is that the iPad with keyboard and mouse has the same experience as a notebook with touchscreen, but with the limitations of an iPad.
Regarding Surface and the dock, you got to the conclusion that is "an unintuitive mess" because someone asked for help to do something. Could I say the same of macOS or iPadOS if someone ask a question on how to do something in these environments?
There will continue to be a limit on things like multitasking. iPads are sealed devices with no means to cool the processor. They can be powerful devices, but there are physical limitations that define their separation from Macs. MacBook Air has passive venting, and as you move up the Mac line you’ll find bigger and bigger fans for dissipation of heat. Apple designs the OS to serve the hardware, and so there will continue to be things that Macs do and iPads don’t do, and vice-versa.
The latest Surface Pro 12 is a sealed, fanless device. And based in the reviews, it has no issues at all with light tasks and multitasking. I don't think the iPad / iPad Pro would have any issues at all.
… so we have this idea keep popping up. While a touchscreen on a notebook sounds fine and dandy (ignoring for a moment the clusterf*** of using touch to control a menu-driven OS), a touchscreen interface on a desktop Mac would be an ergonomic nightmare and orders of magnitude worse on a multi-screen Mac Pro workstation. And before we start imagining a solution involving the bloatware of alternate user interfaces within the same operating system, let’s just remember that Windows does that for the Surface, and it’s well-proven to be nothing Apple should replicate.
So as you can see, while Apple leans into refinements that bridge the boundaries between product lines, there are actual reasons for the boundaries between product lines. Thus far, Apple has maintained the wisdom not to toss aside their core design principles in order to try to accommodate Apple fan fiction fantasies, and hopefully they will maintain that wisdom well into the future.
That "ergonomic nightmare" you describe is what we have with the iPad and the Magic Keyboard. You don't need to do everything with touch; it's just to complement the trackpad.
When comparing the Surface and iPad, both have their pros and cons. As a tablet, the iPad is arguably the best on the market, but when it comes to using a device as a laptop or desktop replacement, the Surface stands out. It offers better multitasking, full-featured apps, and multi-monitor support. Plus, Microsoft provides the Surface Dock for a complete desktop experience. Ultimately, both are excellent devices, and the choice depends on how you plan to use them.
The iPad and keyboard are not analogous to the ergonomic noghtmare of a desktop computer with a touchscreen.
I have a coworker with a Surface and dock. He sometimes asks for help to get it to do things. It’s an unintuitive mess as a far as I can tell.
You comment shows your point of view of touchscreen PC's and notebooks. My point is that the iPad with keyboard and mouse has the same experience as a notebook with touchscreen, but with the limitations of an iPad.
Regarding Surface and the dock, you got to the conclusion that is "an unintuitive mess" because someone asked for help to do something. Could I say the same of macOS or iPadOS if someone ask a question on how to do something in these environments?
If you re-read upstream, the issue is not the similarity of experience of a touchscreen notebook and a touchscreen tablet with a keyboard. The issue is that MacOS also runs desktop computers, where touch becomes an ergonomic mess. So Apple draws the line between macs and iPads, with a pointer UI for the former and touch for the latter. If they move the iPad up to MacOS, then they have to deal with overlapping interfaces, resulting in suboptimal compromises for both, including the kind of confusing bloatware that MS Windows includes in order to try to make the Surface all things to all people. If that's what you want, you have a choice to buy a Surface. Don't demand that Apple limit user choice by making their products more like Microsoft.
There will continue to be a limit on things like multitasking. iPads are sealed devices with no means to cool the processor. They can be powerful devices, but there are physical limitations that define their separation from Macs. MacBook Air has passive venting, and as you move up the Mac line you’ll find bigger and bigger fans for dissipation of heat. Apple designs the OS to serve the hardware, and so there will continue to be things that Macs do and iPads don’t do, and vice-versa.
The latest Surface Pro 12 is a sealed, fanless device. And based in the reviews, it has no issues at all with light tasks and multitasking. I don't think the iPad / iPad Pro would have any issues at all.
… so we have this idea keep popping up. While a touchscreen on a notebook sounds fine and dandy (ignoring for a moment the clusterf*** of using touch to control a menu-driven OS), a touchscreen interface on a desktop Mac would be an ergonomic nightmare and orders of magnitude worse on a multi-screen Mac Pro workstation. And before we start imagining a solution involving the bloatware of alternate user interfaces within the same operating system, let’s just remember that Windows does that for the Surface, and it’s well-proven to be nothing Apple should replicate.
So as you can see, while Apple leans into refinements that bridge the boundaries between product lines, there are actual reasons for the boundaries between product lines. Thus far, Apple has maintained the wisdom not to toss aside their core design principles in order to try to accommodate Apple fan fiction fantasies, and hopefully they will maintain that wisdom well into the future.
That "ergonomic nightmare" you describe is what we have with the iPad and the Magic Keyboard. You don't need to do everything with touch; it's just to complement the trackpad.
When comparing the Surface and iPad, both have their pros and cons. As a tablet, the iPad is arguably the best on the market, but when it comes to using a device as a laptop or desktop replacement, the Surface stands out. It offers better multitasking, full-featured apps, and multi-monitor support. Plus, Microsoft provides the Surface Dock for a complete desktop experience. Ultimately, both are excellent devices, and the choice depends on how you plan to use them.
The iPad and keyboard are not analogous to the ergonomic noghtmare of a desktop computer with a touchscreen.
I have a coworker with a Surface and dock. He sometimes asks for help to get it to do things. It’s an unintuitive mess as a far as I can tell.
You comment shows your point of view of touchscreen PC's and notebooks. My point is that the iPad with keyboard and mouse has the same experience as a notebook with touchscreen, but with the limitations of an iPad.
Regarding Surface and the dock, you got to the conclusion that is "an unintuitive mess" because someone asked for help to do something. Could I say the same of macOS or iPadOS if someone ask a question on how to do something in these environments?
If you re-read upstream, the issue is not the similarity of experience of a touchscreen notebook and a touchscreen tablet with a keyboard. The issue is that MacOS also runs desktop computers, where touch becomes an ergonomic mess. So Apple draws the line between macs and iPads, with a pointer UI for the former and touch for the latter. If they move the iPad up to MacOS, then they have to deal with overlapping interfaces, resulting in suboptimal compromises for both, including the kind of confusing bloatware that MS Windows includes in order to try to make the Surface all things to all people. If that's what you want, you have a choice to buy a Surface. Don't demand that Apple limit user choice by making their products more like Microsoft.
Can you explain what you mean by "confusing bloatware"? I had a Surface Pro 4 and had no trouble using it as both a tablet and a desktop. I used it as a tablet for browsing, social apps, streaming, handwriting notes, and annotating PDFs. When needed, I attached the keyboard or connected it to a dock for a full desktop experience. It wasn’t perfect, but it definitely wasn’t the terrible experience you’re describing.
BTW, every iPadOS update add more desktop features, making it more similar to Windows / macOS. Did you see today's keynote?
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Regarding Surface and the dock, you got to the conclusion that is "an unintuitive mess" because someone asked for help to do something. Could I say the same of macOS or iPadOS if someone ask a question on how to do something in these environments?
BTW, every iPadOS update add more desktop features, making it more similar to Windows / macOS. Did you see today's keynote?