....there is no model---you can't model something that is not exhaustivly understood. (like DNA)
You're assuming that it is even possible.
you logic is lacking, strangely so.
it is not logical to ask for something without presenting the assumption that that thing exists. under that guise of a conversation, you conclude it with "you're assuming that (a model) is even possible". sir, you are an intellectual fraud.
I have added my info on this matter a year ago. What I have noticed as of late is that Hassan uses personal religious arguments against Christianity. Hassan why not use educated arguments to support the holes in Evolution. Why not explain to us here at AI why the scientific community as well as educators and researchers flat out manufactured data to fool the world into buying the lie known as evolution. Rather than try to establish some kind of notion that Christians can't be right with creationism why don't you explain the issues with evolution. By issues I mean the lies, deception, and flat out mistakes that were allowed to be taught for 40 years before the "educators" determined ohh we should update what we teach. No I am not demanding that Science be exact. I am demanding critical review of a failed theory.
Greetings my name is Fellowship for AI and Dale in the real world. I would personally like to ask you why it is you like to add "close me" lately to your posts. Could you please be brief and get to the point. What is the essence of your desire of this thread being closed? You are not forced to partake in this thread. I would submit that you HATE to see somebody who takes issue with a stance you hold to a failed theory. Could that be it? Could it be you are not open to reason? Could it be you do not wish to retain an open mind?
I was just wondering. It is as if your little world is better when people do not discuss and learn over topics.
Why not explain to us here at AI why the scientific community as well as educators and researchers flat out manufactured data to fool the world into buying the lie known as evolution
When. What. Who.
And while you're at it, explain to all of us here at AI how you're so sure that what you believe is any more true than the Yoruba belief that Obatala climbed down a white sheet having having drunk too much and made men from clay.
And while you're at it, explain to all of us here at AI how you're so sure that what you believe is any more true than the Yoruba belief that Obatala climbed down a white sheet having having drunk too much and made men from clay.
Hey
ho.
I don't present my views as fact as educators in 92% of cases do.
Could it be you do not wish to retain an open mind?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Greetings my name is Fellowship for AI and Dale in the real world. I would personally like to ask you why it is you like to add "close me" lately to your posts. Could you please be brief and get to the point. What is the essence of your desire of this thread being closed? You are not forced to partake in this thread. I would submit that you HATE to see somebody who takes issue with a stance you hold to a failed theory. Could that be it? Could it be you are not open to reason? Could it be you do not wish to retain an open mind?
I was just wondering. It is as if your little world is better when people do not discuss and learn over topics.
How about we continue to evaluate this subject?
Care to join me?
Fellowship Dale
You are not correct in the assumption that I hate to see somebody who takes issue with a stance I hold to a failed theory. (theories dont fail, btw). Read my post submitted at 12:31. it includes a firmly rational reason to close this thread which is no longer on topic and has gotten down to calling peer reviewed studies lies as your response to hassan said.
this is not a thread solving the issues of evolution. there are holes in any religious creation theory, for instance, in genesis the sons of adam and eve were incestuous with the daughters, there is however no mention of god curing the genetic disorders one would rationally expect from such a situation. no, hassan need not defend a theory when the same is not expected of non-scientifically backed creation stories.
So what you're saying is that it's not necessarily fact that the Old Testament is accurate?
Can it be Fellowship turns apostate?
In reply to your childish laughing I could wrap my mind around evolution if it were proven correct with real evidence.
You can turn your laughing box off now. Do you need help finding the power button?
I am never going to mandate my religion to others as "Fact"
As you know Hassan with any given religion the details are open to personal adoption. One person may view a detail one way another completely another way.
I am not in the business of creating the official truth I am in the business of seeking the truth and correcting deceptive false evidences.
I was hoping you would answer my question but instead you have chosen to lock on and focus on this thread until it's closing. At this point I will ignore you completely as you add nothing.
There was nothing 'passive' about my post. I am taking the piss out of you.
When it comes to Creationism I'm sort of an... evangelist, so to speak. There's no man-made story of origins that can possibly compare to the awesome age, beauty and size of the universe or the extraordinary processes that made it. It would be lovely to make you see how the truths we're prety sure of are so much more wonderful than anything in Genesis: things with no proof or evidence and with no more claim to the 'truth' than anything the Mayans, Yoruba, Inuit, Muslims or Hindus believe (for all that all creation myths are gorgeous in their way.)
So I'm taking the piss. You're foolish and you look it.
So the Mayans are right, the Muslims right, EVERYONE is right, huh. The only way that is possible is if EVERYONE is wrong. Then and only then are all ideas "equal." Pretty insulting if you ask me. At least when I argue theology with someone I take them seriously. I don't treat them like some "lesser, less-evolved creature" who still needs religious superstitions to survive instead of one of the elite who has "grown beyond" the need for "make believe."
I was hoping you would answer my question but instead you have chosen to lock on and focus on this thread until it's closing. At this point I will ignore you completely as you add nothing.
Fellowship
i did answer your question. maybe i should add the following: if you desire to discuss the merits of evolution versus the merits of religious creation theories then open a new thread. but you have to understand that you have to defend your position as well with evidence, scientifically supported.
failing that. read the title of this thread. it doesnt say is evolution a flawed theory, it says should criticisms of evolutionary theory be mandated in science classrooms?. are we discussing that anymore? most posts here have contained accusations of some sort or another.
since this thread no longer is discussing what it claims to be about -- it should be closed because none of the posts add to the topic at hand...
So the Mayans are right, the Muslims right, EVERYONE is right, huh. The only way that is possible is if EVERYONE is wrong. Then and only then are all ideas "equal." Pretty insulting if you ask me. At least when I argue theology with someone I take them seriously. I don't treat them like some "lesser, less-evolved creature" who still needs religious superstitions to survive instead of one of the elite who has "grown beyond" the need for "make believe."
Which is why I have avoided this thread.
Great points.
One of the things sifted out in a thread of this nature is the character of a person. Will the poster use well articulated arguments to support their view or will they resort to wishing the thread be closed and typing "hahahahahahahaha"
I am very open minded about reviewing anything out there. Not just evolution.
For some here to intend on getting a thread locked in my opinion should be denied their little tactic.
Why not discuss that is what this thread was designed for in the first place.
I think it boils down to the fact some can't take the heat of the weight of the arguments of those who take a different view.
You know sort of like those Microsoft Employees who laugh at apple people. Of course Apple does nothing right in the view of some immature types at Microsoft.
The wise at Microsoft will take notes from that which need to be taken from the works of Apple.
Same here.
Quote:
Should criticisms of Evolutionary Theory be mandated in science classrooms
One of the things sifted out in a thread of this nature is the character of a person. Will the poster use well articulated arguments to support their view or will they resort to wishing the thread be closed and typing "hahahahahahahaha"
I am very open minded about reviewing anything out there. Not just evolution.
For some here to intend on getting a thread locked in my opinion should be denied their little tactic.
Why not discuss that is what this thread was designed for in the first place.
I think it boils down to the fact some can't take the heat of the weight of the arguments of those who take a different view.
You know sort of like those Microsoft Employees who laugh at apple people. Of course Apple does nothing right in the view of some immature types at Microsoft.
The wise at Microsoft will take notes from that which need to be taken from the works of Apple.
Same here.
Fellowship
since you are ignoring me. its obvious you cant take the weight of my arguments. there has been no intellectual addition to the discussion of evolution in this thread. those presenting arguments against it, fail to provide evidence to back their claims. it cannot be expected that one group should get the right to claim things without evidence, without granting that right to the other group. i am all for well-backed criticisms. but i have seen none here, i have tried to answer point for point the claims that have been backed. but you fail to recognise that. again, however, this thread is about teaching evolution, distally teaching science, even more distally curriculum and self-criticism. it is not about the merits of evolution, at least it shouldnt be, everyone (pretty much) agrees that evolution should be presented with scientific criticisms.
how many times must i make this argument. how many times are we going to hear you cant explain this, yes we can -- you cant explain this, yes we can. there is no science in this thread. it is not enlightening, other than figuring out where everyone stands on the issue.
So the Mayans are right, the Muslims right, EVERYONE is right, huh. The only way that is possible is if EVERYONE is wrong. Then and only then are all ideas "equal." Pretty insulting if you ask me. At least when I argue theology with someone I take them seriously. I don't treat them like some "lesser, less-evolved creature" who still needs religious superstitions to survive instead of one of the elite who has "grown beyond" the need for "make believe."
Which is why I have avoided this thread.
Well yes and no. While the Mayans, the Christians, the Native Americans and the !Kung people of Southern Africa are equally wrong, their beliefs of origins are all equally as beautiful.
it is not logical to ask for something without presenting the assumption that that thing exists. under that guise of a conversation, you conclude it with "you're assuming that (a model) is even possible". sir, you are an intellectual fraud.
and my model still exists.
CLOSE ME
...sorry, the ammino acid theory doesn't relate to DNA-based organisms. You have no way of getting from one to the other.
Evolution is a joke.
You don't have an answer to my question---and you should admit as much.
There is no theory---it comes across as "I wish this changed to that..." etc., etc.
Evolution is a joke.
Would you care to explain how a story about a god proclaiming "Let there be..." whatever, and all of a sudden petunias and penguins and people suddenly spring into full-formed existence is less of a joke?
Instead of lazily sitting back and laughing at all of the supposed flaws in evolution, would you care to show point by point how the theory of your choice does a better job? Not just on a few hand-picked pieces of evidence (polonium halos, anyone?), but over a wide breadth of situations, compared against a breadth of evidence?
Comments
Originally posted by Naderfan
It is entirely possible that He set the world into motion using the Big Bang or something like it.
According to Christians, the first thing God says is "Let there be light".
According to scientists, the first thing that happens is a great big explosion.
Where's the contradiction?
Amorya
(a Christian who believes in evolution)
Originally posted by ena
Oh dear, back to the nucleic acids---life is much more complicated than that.
Give me a detailed, molecule-by-molecule biomechanical model of how DNA-based organisms formed in the wild.
You can't.
You believe in something that you do not understand.
actually, i have a model, i am pretty sure most molecularly minded people do. but i dont really care to discuss it here because it is IRRELEVANT.
CLOSE ME>><<CLOSE ME>><<CLOSE ME<<>>CLOSE ME
You're assuming that it is even possible.
Originally posted by ena
....there is no model---you can't model something that is not exhaustivly understood. (like DNA)
You're assuming that it is even possible.
you logic is lacking, strangely so.
it is not logical to ask for something without presenting the assumption that that thing exists. under that guise of a conversation, you conclude it with "you're assuming that (a model) is even possible". sir, you are an intellectual fraud.
and my model still exists.
CLOSE ME
Care to defend your failed theory Hassan?
Fellowship
Greetings my name is Fellowship for AI and Dale in the real world. I would personally like to ask you why it is you like to add "close me" lately to your posts. Could you please be brief and get to the point. What is the essence of your desire of this thread being closed? You are not forced to partake in this thread. I would submit that you HATE to see somebody who takes issue with a stance you hold to a failed theory. Could that be it? Could it be you are not open to reason? Could it be you do not wish to retain an open mind?
I was just wondering. It is as if your little world is better when people do not discuss and learn over topics.
How about we continue to evaluate this subject?
Care to join me?
Fellowship Dale
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Why not explain to us here at AI why the scientific community as well as educators and researchers flat out manufactured data to fool the world into buying the lie known as evolution
When. What. Who.
And while you're at it, explain to all of us here at AI how you're so sure that what you believe is any more true than the Yoruba belief that Obatala climbed down a white sheet having having drunk too much and made men from clay.
Hey
ho.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
When. What. Who.
And while you're at it, explain to all of us here at AI how you're so sure that what you believe is any more true than the Yoruba belief that Obatala climbed down a white sheet having having drunk too much and made men from clay.
Hey
ho.
I don't present my views as fact as educators in 92% of cases do.
Thank you
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Could it be you do not wish to retain an open mind?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I don't present my views as fact as educators in 92% of cases do.
Thank you
Que?
So what you're saying is that it's not necessarily fact that the Old Testament is accurate?
Can it be Fellowship turns apostate?
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
billybobsky
Greetings my name is Fellowship for AI and Dale in the real world. I would personally like to ask you why it is you like to add "close me" lately to your posts. Could you please be brief and get to the point. What is the essence of your desire of this thread being closed? You are not forced to partake in this thread. I would submit that you HATE to see somebody who takes issue with a stance you hold to a failed theory. Could that be it? Could it be you are not open to reason? Could it be you do not wish to retain an open mind?
I was just wondering. It is as if your little world is better when people do not discuss and learn over topics.
How about we continue to evaluate this subject?
Care to join me?
Fellowship Dale
You are not correct in the assumption that I hate to see somebody who takes issue with a stance I hold to a failed theory. (theories dont fail, btw). Read my post submitted at 12:31. it includes a firmly rational reason to close this thread which is no longer on topic and has gotten down to calling peer reviewed studies lies as your response to hassan said.
this is not a thread solving the issues of evolution. there are holes in any religious creation theory, for instance, in genesis the sons of adam and eve were incestuous with the daughters, there is however no mention of god curing the genetic disorders one would rationally expect from such a situation. no, hassan need not defend a theory when the same is not expected of non-scientifically backed creation stories.
as before. this thread should be closed.
CLOSE ME
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Que?
So what you're saying is that it's not necessarily fact that the Old Testament is accurate?
Can it be Fellowship turns apostate?
In reply to your childish laughing I could wrap my mind around evolution if it were proven correct with real evidence.
You can turn your laughing box off now. Do you need help finding the power button?
I am never going to mandate my religion to others as "Fact"
As you know Hassan with any given religion the details are open to personal adoption. One person may view a detail one way another completely another way.
I am not in the business of creating the official truth I am in the business of seeking the truth and correcting deceptive false evidences.
Fellowship
Originally posted by billybobsky
as before. this thread should be closed.
CLOSE ME
I was hoping you would answer my question but instead you have chosen to lock on and focus on this thread until it's closing. At this point I will ignore you completely as you add nothing.
Fellowship
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
I object to this.
There was nothing 'passive' about my post. I am taking the piss out of you.
When it comes to Creationism I'm sort of an... evangelist, so to speak. There's no man-made story of origins that can possibly compare to the awesome age, beauty and size of the universe or the extraordinary processes that made it. It would be lovely to make you see how the truths we're prety sure of are so much more wonderful than anything in Genesis: things with no proof or evidence and with no more claim to the 'truth' than anything the Mayans, Yoruba, Inuit, Muslims or Hindus believe (for all that all creation myths are gorgeous in their way.)
So I'm taking the piss. You're foolish and you look it.
So the Mayans are right, the Muslims right, EVERYONE is right, huh. The only way that is possible is if EVERYONE is wrong. Then and only then are all ideas "equal." Pretty insulting if you ask me. At least when I argue theology with someone I take them seriously. I don't treat them like some "lesser, less-evolved creature" who still needs religious superstitions to survive instead of one of the elite who has "grown beyond" the need for "make believe."
Which is why I have avoided this thread.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I was hoping you would answer my question but instead you have chosen to lock on and focus on this thread until it's closing. At this point I will ignore you completely as you add nothing.
Fellowship
i did answer your question. maybe i should add the following: if you desire to discuss the merits of evolution versus the merits of religious creation theories then open a new thread. but you have to understand that you have to defend your position as well with evidence, scientifically supported.
failing that. read the title of this thread. it doesnt say is evolution a flawed theory, it says should criticisms of evolutionary theory be mandated in science classrooms?. are we discussing that anymore? most posts here have contained accusations of some sort or another.
since this thread no longer is discussing what it claims to be about -- it should be closed because none of the posts add to the topic at hand...
CLOSE ME
Originally posted by Fangorn
So the Mayans are right, the Muslims right, EVERYONE is right, huh. The only way that is possible is if EVERYONE is wrong. Then and only then are all ideas "equal." Pretty insulting if you ask me. At least when I argue theology with someone I take them seriously. I don't treat them like some "lesser, less-evolved creature" who still needs religious superstitions to survive instead of one of the elite who has "grown beyond" the need for "make believe."
Which is why I have avoided this thread.
Great points.
One of the things sifted out in a thread of this nature is the character of a person. Will the poster use well articulated arguments to support their view or will they resort to wishing the thread be closed and typing "hahahahahahahaha"
I am very open minded about reviewing anything out there. Not just evolution.
For some here to intend on getting a thread locked in my opinion should be denied their little tactic.
Why not discuss that is what this thread was designed for in the first place.
I think it boils down to the fact some can't take the heat of the weight of the arguments of those who take a different view.
You know sort of like those Microsoft Employees who laugh at apple people. Of course Apple does nothing right in the view of some immature types at Microsoft.
The wise at Microsoft will take notes from that which need to be taken from the works of Apple.
Same here.
Should criticisms of Evolutionary Theory be mandated in science classrooms
Yes they should be allowed if nothing else.
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Great points.
One of the things sifted out in a thread of this nature is the character of a person. Will the poster use well articulated arguments to support their view or will they resort to wishing the thread be closed and typing "hahahahahahahaha"
I am very open minded about reviewing anything out there. Not just evolution.
For some here to intend on getting a thread locked in my opinion should be denied their little tactic.
Why not discuss that is what this thread was designed for in the first place.
I think it boils down to the fact some can't take the heat of the weight of the arguments of those who take a different view.
You know sort of like those Microsoft Employees who laugh at apple people. Of course Apple does nothing right in the view of some immature types at Microsoft.
The wise at Microsoft will take notes from that which need to be taken from the works of Apple.
Same here.
Fellowship
since you are ignoring me. its obvious you cant take the weight of my arguments. there has been no intellectual addition to the discussion of evolution in this thread. those presenting arguments against it, fail to provide evidence to back their claims. it cannot be expected that one group should get the right to claim things without evidence, without granting that right to the other group. i am all for well-backed criticisms. but i have seen none here, i have tried to answer point for point the claims that have been backed. but you fail to recognise that. again, however, this thread is about teaching evolution, distally teaching science, even more distally curriculum and self-criticism. it is not about the merits of evolution, at least it shouldnt be, everyone (pretty much) agrees that evolution should be presented with scientific criticisms.
how many times must i make this argument. how many times are we going to hear you cant explain this, yes we can -- you cant explain this, yes we can. there is no science in this thread. it is not enlightening, other than figuring out where everyone stands on the issue.
CLOSE ME PLEASE
Originally posted by Fangorn
So the Mayans are right, the Muslims right, EVERYONE is right, huh. The only way that is possible is if EVERYONE is wrong. Then and only then are all ideas "equal." Pretty insulting if you ask me. At least when I argue theology with someone I take them seriously. I don't treat them like some "lesser, less-evolved creature" who still needs religious superstitions to survive instead of one of the elite who has "grown beyond" the need for "make believe."
Which is why I have avoided this thread.
Well yes and no. While the Mayans, the Christians, the Native Americans and the !Kung people of Southern Africa are equally wrong, their beliefs of origins are all equally as beautiful.
It's just that the truth is more beautiful still.
Originally posted by billybobsky
you logic is lacking, strangely so.
it is not logical to ask for something without presenting the assumption that that thing exists. under that guise of a conversation, you conclude it with "you're assuming that (a model) is even possible". sir, you are an intellectual fraud.
and my model still exists.
CLOSE ME
...sorry, the ammino acid theory doesn't relate to DNA-based organisms. You have no way of getting from one to the other.
Evolution is a joke.
You don't have an answer to my question---and you should admit as much.
Originally posted by ena
There is no theory---it comes across as "I wish this changed to that..." etc., etc.
Evolution is a joke.
Would you care to explain how a story about a god proclaiming "Let there be..." whatever, and all of a sudden petunias and penguins and people suddenly spring into full-formed existence is less of a joke?
Instead of lazily sitting back and laughing at all of the supposed flaws in evolution, would you care to show point by point how the theory of your choice does a better job? Not just on a few hand-picked pieces of evidence (polonium halos, anyone?), but over a wide breadth of situations, compared against a breadth of evidence?