It's unreasonable to think that you will ever get such a big jump in the same chip. Now, the G5 on the other hand just might not only scale much faster, but start off significantly faster. We shall see.
I have been the biggest advocate for both a G5 release and an iMac release. I have been going on my gut instinct for quite some time, and I don't think that I am wrong.
Is the G5 coming out?? I think so, I wouldn't bet the farm, but I still think so.
Is the new LCD iMac coming out?? Absolutly. I don't think there are any doubts on that one.
Is the iMac going to be a G4?? You see, for me this is the real kicker. I honestly think that they are going to put a G4 in that machine. Will it compete with the Tower?? Nope, and here is why. The Tower has expandability and DDR RAM (if the rumor mills are true). The iMac will not have the expandability that the Tower has nor will it have DDR RAM. Those points alone, they could make a serious enough gap to distinguis the two machines apart. Remember, the iMac orginally had a G3 at the same time the B&W Tower had a G3. Then I think 6 - 12 months later the G4 came out. Coincidence?? I don't think so.
Selling 1.2Ghz G4 PowerMac at $3400 US is going to be the biggest fu*king joke ever from Apple </strong><hr></blockquote>
How do you know it won't be a dual processor?
I wish everyone would quit bitching until AFTER the keynote. No matter what Apple releases people will complain.
I think having a 1.2 GHZ G4 is wonderful. We'll finally break the GHZ barrier.
I'm not expecting anything over 1.2 and you know what, that means I most likely won't be disappointed at MacWorld. Everyone else with such high hopes is going to have them smashed.
If Apple does release a G5 or go over 1.2 then I'll be all the more happier.
Two years behind everyone else ... and oddly enough, we're still at half the MHz of Intel.
At this rate, we'll be half way there, forever.
After a certain point, patience is no longer a virtue; we've given Moto two years of it - and they still haven't moved out of the basement and gotten a real job.
If there's one company that could use Steve Jobs as a CEO, it's Motorola.
<strong>Leonis, all you seem to do lately is complain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well....when you keep seeing those sub 2000 Athlon and P4 PCs smoke the $3500 Power Mac by almost 150% then you will see why I am complaining.
The case will be worse if Apple can only deliver 1.2Ghz or lower G4 as the top machine while selling at that same crazy price tag. I can perdict many people will be forced to switch.
Even there are killer apps for Mac if the hardware can't handle that's total BS
[quote]Well....when you keep seeing those sub 2000 Athlon and P4 PCs smoke the $3500 Power Mac by almost 150% then you will see why I am complaining.
The case will be worse if Apple can only deliver 1.2Ghz or lower G4 as the top machine while selling at that same crazy price tag. I can perdict many people will be forced to switch.
Even there are killer apps for Mac if the hardware can't handle that's total BS<hr></blockquote>
Damn right. MWSF determines whether or not I become a 2-OS business.
Yes, AtAt got the speeds right at New York, but they waited until just before the Expo when there was a lot more info to go on. Even as close as a week before they were riding the fence on PowerMacs. On iMacs they went so far as to say:
[quote]...we're still expecting a new iMac...we think we've pieced together that next week's consumer desktop will simply be the same old CRT-based model with faster G3 processors...Let's say 700 or 750 MHz, then...DVD/CD-RW combo drives available in some configurations, and new colors. <hr></blockquote>
Wrong speed, no combo drive and no new colors = sucked cheese.
Yea, hours before the Expo they updated their iMac description to match what ThinkSecret was saying.
I love AtAt but it's hardly an 'inside-info' kinda site. It's more of a 'point their finger and laugh' kinda site.
I never read ATAT for the rumors (they are few and far between anyway). I read it for Jack's amazing wit and story telling. I also get some new information that I might have missed on Macsurfer.com
I don't think I've ever loaded their page and not had a good laugh (excluding 9/11 of course). Besides, if it weren't for ATAT I may never have heard of "Monkey Ballmer" hehehe
<strong>Every upcoming Macworld, it's the same thing.... lots of people posting "If the new Powermacs aren't twice as fast as the last ones, I'm gonna KILL somebody."
Apple has NEVER doubled the speed of the Powermac in one single swoop.....
If you guys (some of you) can't be pleased about a souped-up next-gen G4 with DDR ram, speeds like 933 up through 1.2ghz, then prepare to be disappointed....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know what? That is total BULLSHIT!!
Apple has been behind the curve for two ****ing years. I have been the biggest apologist and biggest supporter of the platform.....(I love Macs no matter what) BUT, Apple charging the prices they do for what they have is totally ****ing insane!!!!!
How the hell can they NOT have DDR and ATA 133 already? You mean to tell me I'm supposed to be happy with Apple coming out with stuff that all high end PC's have, a year (or more) BEHIND everyone else, and charging twice as much for it?? WTF??? I'm supposed to be happy that their clock speeds are ONE GIGAHERTZ behind the competition when they charge $3499 for that computer...without a monitor?
I love the software! I love the interface! I love OSX! But APPLE, your hardware is a ****ing JOKE right now!!!! No more apologies and explaining of the megahertz/gigahertz myth! We bought it when it was a 50MHZ, then 100MHZ, then a 200,300MHZ gap....but TWICE the clock speed? Come on.
Apple is too innovative as a company to be playing catch up at all. Especially with those prices. That's like paying $75,000 for a top of the line Mercedes with an inline four cylinder engine! (I can hear it now "But, the styling, the way the buttons feel, the mystique, the brand name, and the TRANSMISISON are so GOOOOD!).
They better deliver HUGELY bumped and updated PM's....or release the bitchin' G5. Even if our dreams come true and Apple releases a 1.6 GHZ G5 is Jan....that will STILL be a 600MHZ speed gap!!!!
We are bitching because Apple has their head up their ass in the pro line. If I was Steve Jobs I would have done worse than throw the phone across the room....I would have driven to Mot HQ and opened up a can of WHOOP ASS.
iMac G4
PowerMac G5
That is what we want!! Give it to us NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apple, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!!!!!!
Ok, I too am a big fan of ATAT. And I too believe their visions, be they goat entrails or crystal balls, are quite accurate. As accurate as we're going to get in this climate of pranksters, wannabe insiders and general hucksters.
So I'm ready to believe the G5 is months off and a G4 Apollo is ont he way (which is supposed to be much faster). I'm sad because I am ready to buy three new desktops. So I'm holding off. I bought a G3 desktop months before the G4 came out. Then I bought a G3 powerbook months before the G4 came out, and again felt ripped off. The lesson I learned is - ****! it sure does take them forever, but everytime I loose the faith and cave in buy a new machine, the next generation was so close It makes me feel like crap.
So now Apple can wait for my money.
And the longer they take, the longer they'll wait.
I ain't budging this time.
They should really learn a lesson from this. And if they don't, we should teach them one.
And don't give me that, "oh, well the G4 is fast enough for me!" nonsense. I do digital video editing and compositing - as far as i'm concerned, there will never be enough power. So I'm waiting for the next generation processor because from ALL accounts, it's going to kick some serious ass.
And if I wait all this time and it doesn't, i will simply cry.
<strong>Apple, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!!!!!!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
SDW... I sure do feel your pain but Apple can't sell what isn't available and to come out and totally blame Apple for something that is Moto's fault isn't really fair.
Sure you can say... well then port OS X over to Intel and eff Mot/IBM but lets be realistic here, Apple can't do that and everyone here should know it. The two cpu's are TOTALLY different and Apple would be better off closing up shop if they were forced to jump to Intel. Does anyone really think OS X that was built around a RISC based PowerPC CPU can just be 're compiled' for a CISC based Intel CPI?
Sorry but even someone with the little programming background I have knows it would be years worth of work by then Intel might have migrated to RISC itself...
Apple is stuck between a rock and a hard place and I for one think they are doing the best they can... Mot or IBM will break the speed limit soon, that I'm sure of but I think MWSF isn't going to be the place where it will happen but come summer... it's off to the races!
I don't know what you are all complaining about... 1,2 GHz is not as bad as you put it especially when you consider that AMD is at "only" 1,6 GHz (Athlon XP 1900+) and their low-end chip at 1 GHz (Duron - although there is a 1,2 GHz Intel Celeron coming).
I think the crucial parts will be the hardware that surounds the CPU. Will there be DDR-RAM, what connections will be used between the northbridge, the southbridge, the CPU and the memory. Will they use something similar to the "TwinBank" technology used in nVidias nForce chipset? What other goodies will we see - FireWire successor, USB 2, Bluetooth (at least on the Powerbook), faster Airport options?
How about software and iPod-like gadgets?
I hope and am actually quite confident that we will be plesantly surprised... it's christmas after all ;-)
<strong>The two cpu's are TOTALLY different and Apple would be better off closing up shop if they were forced to jump to Intel. Does anyone really think OS X that was built around a RISC based PowerPC CPU can just be 're compiled' for a CISC based Intel CPI?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, actually Apple already has an intel version of Darwin, which IS essentially Mac OS X more than the PPC is.
While it's true programs would have to be recompiled, I don't think it's actually the chore many people think it is. Most programs I've seen source code for literally have one or two variables that are processor specific. The compiler does all the recoding.
And Unix is supposed to be processor independent. That's sort of the point. I'm not saying it would be easy, but I don't believe it is impossible or would take years, yadda yadda.
But I'm no pro by any means. Just relating what I know from hanging with hardcore linux heads.
Comments
Is the G5 coming out?? I think so, I wouldn't bet the farm, but I still think so.
Is the new LCD iMac coming out?? Absolutly. I don't think there are any doubts on that one.
Is the iMac going to be a G4?? You see, for me this is the real kicker. I honestly think that they are going to put a G4 in that machine. Will it compete with the Tower?? Nope, and here is why. The Tower has expandability and DDR RAM (if the rumor mills are true). The iMac will not have the expandability that the Tower has nor will it have DDR RAM. Those points alone, they could make a serious enough gap to distinguis the two machines apart. Remember, the iMac orginally had a G3 at the same time the B&W Tower had a G3. Then I think 6 - 12 months later the G4 came out. Coincidence?? I don't think so.
Just my gut feeling. Do with it as you will.
Selling 1.2Ghz G4 PowerMac at $3400 US is going to be the biggest fu*king joke ever from Apple
<strong>If AtAT is right at the speed....
Selling 1.2Ghz G4 PowerMac at $3400 US is going to be the biggest fu*king joke ever from Apple
How do you know it won't be a dual processor?
I wish everyone would quit bitching until AFTER the keynote. No matter what Apple releases people will complain.
I think having a 1.2 GHZ G4 is wonderful. We'll finally break the GHZ barrier.
I'm not expecting anything over 1.2 and you know what, that means I most likely won't be disappointed at MacWorld. Everyone else with such high hopes is going to have them smashed.
If Apple does release a G5 or go over 1.2 then I'll be all the more happier.
<strong>
We'll finally break the GHZ barrier.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Two years behind everyone else ... and oddly enough, we're still at half the MHz of Intel.
At this rate, we'll be half way there, forever.
After a certain point, patience is no longer a virtue; we've given Moto two years of it - and they still haven't moved out of the basement and gotten a real job.
If there's one company that could use Steve Jobs as a CEO, it's Motorola.
<strong>Leonis, all you seem to do lately is complain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well....when you keep seeing those sub 2000 Athlon and P4 PCs smoke the $3500 Power Mac by almost 150% then you will see why I am complaining.
The case will be worse if Apple can only deliver 1.2Ghz or lower G4 as the top machine while selling at that same crazy price tag. I can perdict many people will be forced to switch.
Even there are killer apps for Mac if the hardware can't handle that's total BS
[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
The case will be worse if Apple can only deliver 1.2Ghz or lower G4 as the top machine while selling at that same crazy price tag. I can perdict many people will be forced to switch.
Even there are killer apps for Mac if the hardware can't handle that's total BS<hr></blockquote>
Damn right. MWSF determines whether or not I become a 2-OS business.
[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: cowerd ]</p>
If nothing happens in MWSF...I guess by summer time I will have to use PC more than the Mac.
[quote]...we're still expecting a new iMac...we think we've pieced together that next week's consumer desktop will simply be the same old CRT-based model with faster G3 processors...Let's say 700 or 750 MHz, then...DVD/CD-RW combo drives available in some configurations, and new colors. <hr></blockquote>
Wrong speed, no combo drive and no new colors = sucked cheese.
Yea, hours before the Expo they updated their iMac description to match what ThinkSecret was saying.
I love AtAt but it's hardly an 'inside-info' kinda site. It's more of a 'point their finger and laugh' kinda site.
Besides, how incorrect were they?
They predicted 700 or 750Mhz.
They predicted new colors.
They pridicted combo drives.
Speed was correct. Colors did change (although technically not new) Combo drives didn't happen.
So they batted .500 on that one. I don't think anyone else came even that close.
I don't think I've ever loaded their page and not had a good laugh (excluding 9/11 of course). Besides, if it weren't for ATAT I may never have heard of "Monkey Ballmer" hehehe
I love those guys.
"We will begin shipping systems based on the G4 processor in summer of 2000."
Hmm... obviously Steve wanted to shock everyone with the PowerMac G4, and he will no doubt want to do the same with the G5.
<strong>Every upcoming Macworld, it's the same thing.... lots of people posting "If the new Powermacs aren't twice as fast as the last ones, I'm gonna KILL somebody."
Apple has NEVER doubled the speed of the Powermac in one single swoop.....
If you guys (some of you) can't be pleased about a souped-up next-gen G4 with DDR ram, speeds like 933 up through 1.2ghz, then prepare to be disappointed....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You know what? That is total BULLSHIT!!
Apple has been behind the curve for two ****ing years. I have been the biggest apologist and biggest supporter of the platform.....(I love Macs no matter what) BUT, Apple charging the prices they do for what they have is totally ****ing insane!!!!!
How the hell can they NOT have DDR and ATA 133 already? You mean to tell me I'm supposed to be happy with Apple coming out with stuff that all high end PC's have, a year (or more) BEHIND everyone else, and charging twice as much for it?? WTF??? I'm supposed to be happy that their clock speeds are ONE GIGAHERTZ behind the competition when they charge $3499 for that computer...without a monitor?
I love the software! I love the interface! I love OSX! But APPLE, your hardware is a ****ing JOKE right now!!!! No more apologies and explaining of the megahertz/gigahertz myth! We bought it when it was a 50MHZ, then 100MHZ, then a 200,300MHZ gap....but TWICE the clock speed? Come on.
Apple is too innovative as a company to be playing catch up at all. Especially with those prices. That's like paying $75,000 for a top of the line Mercedes with an inline four cylinder engine! (I can hear it now "But, the styling, the way the buttons feel, the mystique, the brand name, and the TRANSMISISON are so GOOOOD!).
They better deliver HUGELY bumped and updated PM's....or release the bitchin' G5. Even if our dreams come true and Apple releases a 1.6 GHZ G5 is Jan....that will STILL be a 600MHZ speed gap!!!!
We are bitching because Apple has their head up their ass in the pro line. If I was Steve Jobs I would have done worse than throw the phone across the room....I would have driven to Mot HQ and opened up a can of WHOOP ASS.
iMac G4
PowerMac G5
That is what we want!! Give it to us NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apple, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!!!!!!
[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]
[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
[QB]
That is what we want!! Give it to us NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apple, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!!!!!!
QB]<hr></blockquote>
SDW2001:
Please post again so we know that throbbing vein in your forehead didn't burst and kill you on the spot.
So I'm ready to believe the G5 is months off and a G4 Apollo is ont he way (which is supposed to be much faster). I'm sad because I am ready to buy three new desktops. So I'm holding off. I bought a G3 desktop months before the G4 came out. Then I bought a G3 powerbook months before the G4 came out, and again felt ripped off. The lesson I learned is - ****! it sure does take them forever, but everytime I loose the faith and cave in buy a new machine, the next generation was so close It makes me feel like crap.
So now Apple can wait for my money.
And the longer they take, the longer they'll wait.
I ain't budging this time.
They should really learn a lesson from this. And if they don't, we should teach them one.
And don't give me that, "oh, well the G4 is fast enough for me!" nonsense. I do digital video editing and compositing - as far as i'm concerned, there will never be enough power. So I'm waiting for the next generation processor because from ALL accounts, it's going to kick some serious ass.
And if I wait all this time and it doesn't, i will simply cry.
<strong>Apple, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!!!!!!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
SDW... I sure do feel your pain but Apple can't sell what isn't available and to come out and totally blame Apple for something that is Moto's fault isn't really fair.
Sure you can say... well then port OS X over to Intel and eff Mot/IBM but lets be realistic here, Apple can't do that and everyone here should know it. The two cpu's are TOTALLY different and Apple would be better off closing up shop if they were forced to jump to Intel. Does anyone really think OS X that was built around a RISC based PowerPC CPU can just be 're compiled' for a CISC based Intel CPI?
Sorry but even someone with the little programming background I have knows it would be years worth of work by then Intel might have migrated to RISC itself...
Apple is stuck between a rock and a hard place and I for one think they are doing the best they can... Mot or IBM will break the speed limit soon, that I'm sure of but I think MWSF isn't going to be the place where it will happen but come summer... it's off to the races!
Dave
I think the crucial parts will be the hardware that surounds the CPU. Will there be DDR-RAM, what connections will be used between the northbridge, the southbridge, the CPU and the memory. Will they use something similar to the "TwinBank" technology used in nVidias nForce chipset? What other goodies will we see - FireWire successor, USB 2, Bluetooth (at least on the Powerbook), faster Airport options?
How about software and iPod-like gadgets?
I hope and am actually quite confident that we will be plesantly surprised... it's christmas after all ;-)
<strong>The two cpu's are TOTALLY different and Apple would be better off closing up shop if they were forced to jump to Intel. Does anyone really think OS X that was built around a RISC based PowerPC CPU can just be 're compiled' for a CISC based Intel CPI?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, actually Apple already has an intel version of Darwin, which IS essentially Mac OS X more than the PPC is.
<a href="http://www.opensource.apple.com/projects/darwin/"; target="_blank">http://www.opensource.apple.com/projects/darwin/</a>;
While it's true programs would have to be recompiled, I don't think it's actually the chore many people think it is. Most programs I've seen source code for literally have one or two variables that are processor specific. The compiler does all the recoding.
And Unix is supposed to be processor independent. That's sort of the point. I'm not saying it would be easy, but I don't believe it is impossible or would take years, yadda yadda.
But I'm no pro by any means. Just relating what I know from hanging with hardcore linux heads.