In watching many Windows users manuver a cursor onscreen with a mouse, I have found that many move the cursor very slowly as the mouse tracking is linear; that is, if you move the mouse two inches at .2m/s, and then move the mouse two inches at 1m/s, the cursor will move the same distance onscreen. So most users have the tracking set at a level to where they can navigate the screen in the space of an average-sized mouse pad. This, however, leads to inaccuracy (which is why I detest using graphic editing apps like Photoshop on Windows.)
I think you're confusing pointer speed and acceleration. If you increase the acceleration setting, you can make the pointer move faster when the mouse moves faster. Pre-WinXP may feel weird because the acceleration algorithm didn't produce accurate vectors. Note, on Mandrake(maybe all KDE systems) the mouse speed setting isn't changeable without editing text files. Even then, I couldn't get it to adjust.
Quote:
Comp-sci majors who think Macs are 'aimed at computer illiterates' will probably be rather inept at their chosen field.
Macs have some features useful for computer professionals, but I would say they are 'marketed' to computer illiterates. Just look at the commercials & the Apple website. I see Apple ads in Rolling Stone, but not in IT rags.
Macs have some features useful for computer professionals, but I would say they are 'marketed' to computer illiterates. Just look at the commercials & the Apple website. I see Apple ads in Rolling Stone, but not in IT rags.
Hmm, a user-friendly UNIX with MS Office, graphics-accelerated X11, with a rapid and innovative development cycle are "some useful features"?
Apple advertises mostly in consumer publications, and to their core pro markets (design, video, audio) but also, increasingly, in a few IT / geek publications -- from Infoworld to Game Developer to to New Architect (now defunct) to eWeek. I'd expect even more when PPC 970 is released.
If anything, some of my seriouly techie friends (I work for Fortune 500 company IT dept) have switched to Mac becase their eyes light up at the thought of a FreBSD based OS with great GUI and compatibility with all major OS out there. You can see the same ga-ga reaction on Slashdot as well.
However, I can see why CS majors may not like Apple. The primary reason their is ignorance of the progress that Apple has made. Trust me, NO techie would switch to Apple if Apple had not switched to an UNIX variant OS. Second and just as important, the cost of entry for an Apple system to an undergrad is simply too high for most.
A not-100%-maximum screen "maximize" is a Mac habit, hard to get over especially dealing with 12" iBook (dual platformer- 10 months).
Well, it's not maximize on the Mac, it's zoom. A not-100%-maximum screen "zoom" makes sense; I'm sure this confuses many. In OS 9 you could option click the zoom window and it would "zoom" to 100% of the screen, this hasn't made it to X.
Second and just as important, the cost of entry for an Apple system to an undergrad is simply too high for most.
I would argue that's untrue. Actually, that was one of my main consideratiions in buying the iBook. While the cost of entry for a Power Mac or Powerbook may be high when compared to PCs in the same price range, the iBooks are actually a great value at a low price point for students.
You don't have to convince me that is great value. I already own an iBook!
The fact is when you present to an undergrad for $950, the price of the cheapest iBook, they can get a laptop that has a combo drive using an OS that they are familiar with and has more support and 'features' (Kazaa?) or for $750, the cheapest eMac, they can get a fully equipped PC with all the 'benefits' of PC - most undergrad would choose the cheaper PC option!
Again, no need to list the benefits to of Mac OS/HW/elegance etc to me personally. I already know them. Most undergrads, however, when faced with a lower $ item that fit all their requirements and a high $ item that has some other benefits that do not fit all their requirements will choose the former.
proud powermac owner. Freshman Computer Science Major at Prairie View A&M UNiversity. just finished my first year. And i must say that everyone knows i have a mac. As they said in my building, I am the ONLY person with a chromed out computer. NE-way, kewl deal on the ibook, we conviced the compusa guy to give us the 14in. wityh a free 2 yr waranty. The guy thought my dad was an Apple Rep because he came in and said "i see you have the new prices on the old machines." This was back on the 28th. verygood day.
I think you're confusing pointer speed and acceleration. If you increase the acceleration setting, you can make the pointer move faster when the mouse moves faster.
Yes...you get that with both Windows and Mac OS. I'm not sure what you mean by this...as far as I know/can tell, Windows will move the pointer on-screen proportionally to how the mouse is moved. If you move the mouse, say, two inches, you get 300 pixels of on-screen movement regardless of how fast you move the mouse at a given acceleration setting, am I right?
With Mac OS, the tracking is dynamically adjusted but given a general multiplier via the System Preferences. Try it: move the mouse two inches to the right slowly, note the on-screen movement. Move the mouse two inches to the right quickly, note the much greater on-screen movement. With Windows, as far as I know, it matters not how fast you move the mouse.
Comp-sci majors who think Macs are 'aimed at computer illiterates' will probably be rather inept at their chosen field. I certainly would not want them working for me. The statement demonstrates a lack of objective, analytical ability. I don?t really consider myself an evangelist and don't hate these people. Rather, I consider them to be ignorant or perhaps of questionable intelligence.
While attending Carnegie Mellon, I observed a surprising number of CS grad-students and faculty to be powerbook users. Macs are actually more common among the uber-geeks than among the general populace. This phenomenon was less pronounced with undergraduates. They tend to give gaming capability more weight when purchasing a computer for personal use. This marries them to the PC hardware and you?ll find them dual booting into linux for some of their course work.
[This post used to contain a funny anecdote about nocturnal, caffeine-guzzling wifi-geeks but an accidental alt-F4 killed my first response.]
Rest assured, super geeks moding kernels in their spare time? its fairly common for them to be powerbook users.
I go to CMU right now and Macs are very plentiful. Don't know when you were last at CMU but the Haberman cluster has ~90 iMacs intended for introductory CS classes. Apple even has a qtvr of it on their website ( http://www.apple.com/education/hed/c.../vr_large.html ).
Certiainly Macs are useful for programming. As my last roommate believed, who is a CS major, there are no good text editors for Windows or Linux (for coding), there's only BBEdit
But alas, I'm not a CS major... just an engineer, who uses Macs.
i just tested this acceleration issue, and i must say that my pc mouse has acceleration. That doesnt save it from its clutter, 3rd party garbage apps, ugly and poorly thought out UI, lack of adium, frequent glitches, color inaccuracies, inability to remove microsoft programs such as msn (imagine being forced to keep that crap on your computer!), piss poor keyboard shortcuts, no iphoto/imovie/itunes/idvd, cant run unix apps, cant run mac apps, doesnt sync the new ipod i got instantly without any sofware upgrades/installs, entangled by countless numbers of security updates and service packs, no rendevous, no 802.11g built in, sounds like a vacum cleaner, and looks like it belongs at the dump. And it was top of the line just 2.5 years ago....
where as my moms imac, which is the same age, but a consumer machine and actually less expensive, is still a joy to use.
And my 17" MiniMe.....Hahahahahaha!!!!! Yes i feeeeeel the power. this laptop turns more heads than brittany spiers. Well maybe not more, but about the same. My only complaint about it is the fact that i can easily lose it in my bag cuz its so thin! jk
go to arstechnica and rave for OS X! some losers down their are calling it a pointless OS!
i just tested this acceleration issue, and i must say that my pc mouse has acceleration. That doesnt save it from its clutter, 3rd party garbage apps, ugly and poorly thought out UI, lack of adium, frequent glitches, color inaccuracies, inability to remove microsoft programs such as msn (imagine being forced to keep that crap on your computer!), piss poor keyboard shortcuts, no iphoto/imovie/itunes/idvd, cant run unix apps, cant run mac apps, doesnt sync the new ipod i got instantly without any sofware upgrades/installs, entangled by countless numbers of security updates and service packs, no rendevous, no 802.11g built in, sounds like a vacum cleaner, and looks like it belongs at the dump. And it was top of the line just 2.5 years ago....
where as my moms imac, which is the same age, but a consumer machine and actually less expensive, is still a joy to use.
And my 17" MiniMe.....Hahahahahaha!!!!! Yes i feeeeeel the power. this laptop turns more heads than brittany spiers. Well maybe not more, but about the same. My only complaint about it is the fact that i can easily lose it in my bag cuz its so thin! jk
go to arstechnica and rave for OS X! some losers down their are calling it a pointless OS!
What are you using acceleration to indicate? I've never experienced dynamic tracking (at least not to the extent that the Mac has it) on any Windows OS, including XP and ME.
ok just about got myself kicked from arstechnica for trolling- a night well spent!
ok so i didnt do any advanced testing on the mouse, i just putt it between to stationary objects. and moved it between them at varying speeds. The mouse clearly went further when i moved it faster. The actual implimentation is probably different, i mean i can feel the difference, but it isnt due to a complete lack of mousing acceleration on the pc side.
I am certain that under the mouse control panel in windows you can configure the acceleration. I've always found the mac mouse to be smoother to control and use, but Window's has improved.
What are you using acceleration to indicate? I've never experienced dynamic tracking (at least not to the extent that the Mac has it) on any Windows OS, including XP and ME.
Windows has had non-linear mouse acceleration since win95. The Mac curve is simply more dramatic.
Quote:
Originally posted by chych
I go to CMU right now and Macs are very plentiful. Don't know when you were last at CMU but the Haberman cluster has ~90 iMacs intended for introductory CS classes.
The truley ironic part is that Macs used to be more prevailent on the arts side of campus. All the design, architecture, drama, etc... students used to be using Macs while the science side of campus used various *nix and PCs. Now it seems that the tables are fliped. CMU is buying PCs to run illustrator and photoshop and Macs for stdIO programming courses.
I would never have believed this scenario six or seven years ago. But then again... remember when Big Blue was the evil empire?
Comments
Originally posted by Spart
In watching many Windows users manuver a cursor onscreen with a mouse, I have found that many move the cursor very slowly as the mouse tracking is linear; that is, if you move the mouse two inches at .2m/s, and then move the mouse two inches at 1m/s, the cursor will move the same distance onscreen. So most users have the tracking set at a level to where they can navigate the screen in the space of an average-sized mouse pad. This, however, leads to inaccuracy (which is why I detest using graphic editing apps like Photoshop on Windows.)
I think you're confusing pointer speed and acceleration. If you increase the acceleration setting, you can make the pointer move faster when the mouse moves faster. Pre-WinXP may feel weird because the acceleration algorithm didn't produce accurate vectors. Note, on Mandrake(maybe all KDE systems) the mouse speed setting isn't changeable without editing text files. Even then, I couldn't get it to adjust.
Comp-sci majors who think Macs are 'aimed at computer illiterates' will probably be rather inept at their chosen field.
Macs have some features useful for computer professionals, but I would say they are 'marketed' to computer illiterates. Just look at the commercials & the Apple website. I see Apple ads in Rolling Stone, but not in IT rags.
Originally posted by xmoger
Macs have some features useful for computer professionals, but I would say they are 'marketed' to computer illiterates. Just look at the commercials & the Apple website. I see Apple ads in Rolling Stone, but not in IT rags.
Hmm, a user-friendly UNIX with MS Office, graphics-accelerated X11, with a rapid and innovative development cycle are "some useful features"?
Apple advertises mostly in consumer publications, and to their core pro markets (design, video, audio) but also, increasingly, in a few IT / geek publications -- from Infoworld to Game Developer to to New Architect (now defunct) to eWeek. I'd expect even more when PPC 970 is released.
Originally posted by chych
Full screen maximize is a windows habit, get over it, quick
A not-100%-maximum screen "maximize" is a Mac habit, hard to get over especially dealing with 12" iBook (dual platformer- 10 months).
However, I can see why CS majors may not like Apple. The primary reason their is ignorance of the progress that Apple has made. Trust me, NO techie would switch to Apple if Apple had not switched to an UNIX variant OS. Second and just as important, the cost of entry for an Apple system to an undergrad is simply too high for most.
Originally posted by klinux
A not-100%-maximum screen "maximize" is a Mac habit, hard to get over especially dealing with 12" iBook (dual platformer- 10 months).
Well, it's not maximize on the Mac, it's zoom. A not-100%-maximum screen "zoom" makes sense; I'm sure this confuses many. In OS 9 you could option click the zoom window and it would "zoom" to 100% of the screen, this hasn't made it to X.
Originally posted by klinux
Second and just as important, the cost of entry for an Apple system to an undergrad is simply too high for most.
I would argue that's untrue. Actually, that was one of my main consideratiions in buying the iBook. While the cost of entry for a Power Mac or Powerbook may be high when compared to PCs in the same price range, the iBooks are actually a great value at a low price point for students.
Originally posted by klinux
Second and just as important, the cost of entry for an Apple system to an undergrad is simply too high for most.
? - btw these are edu higher education individual prices
Originally posted by serrano
Well, it's not maximize on the Mac, it's zoom.
Yes, I am aware of that. Hence the double quote on "maximize."
Originally posted by ahbo
I would argue that's untrue.
You don't have to convince me that is great value. I already own an iBook!
The fact is when you present to an undergrad for $950, the price of the cheapest iBook, they can get a laptop that has a combo drive using an OS that they are familiar with and has more support and 'features' (Kazaa?) or for $750, the cheapest eMac, they can get a fully equipped PC with all the 'benefits' of PC - most undergrad would choose the cheaper PC option!
Again, no need to list the benefits to of Mac OS/HW/elegance etc to me personally. I already know them. Most undergrads, however, when faced with a lower $ item that fit all their requirements and a high $ item that has some other benefits that do not fit all their requirements will choose the former.
Originally posted by xmoger
I think you're confusing pointer speed and acceleration. If you increase the acceleration setting, you can make the pointer move faster when the mouse moves faster.
Yes...you get that with both Windows and Mac OS. I'm not sure what you mean by this...as far as I know/can tell, Windows will move the pointer on-screen proportionally to how the mouse is moved. If you move the mouse, say, two inches, you get 300 pixels of on-screen movement regardless of how fast you move the mouse at a given acceleration setting, am I right?
With Mac OS, the tracking is dynamically adjusted but given a general multiplier via the System Preferences. Try it: move the mouse two inches to the right slowly, note the on-screen movement. Move the mouse two inches to the right quickly, note the much greater on-screen movement. With Windows, as far as I know, it matters not how fast you move the mouse.
Originally posted by dfiler
Comp-sci majors who think Macs are 'aimed at computer illiterates' will probably be rather inept at their chosen field. I certainly would not want them working for me. The statement demonstrates a lack of objective, analytical ability. I don?t really consider myself an evangelist and don't hate these people. Rather, I consider them to be ignorant or perhaps of questionable intelligence.
While attending Carnegie Mellon, I observed a surprising number of CS grad-students and faculty to be powerbook users. Macs are actually more common among the uber-geeks than among the general populace. This phenomenon was less pronounced with undergraduates. They tend to give gaming capability more weight when purchasing a computer for personal use. This marries them to the PC hardware and you?ll find them dual booting into linux for some of their course work.
[This post used to contain a funny anecdote about nocturnal, caffeine-guzzling wifi-geeks but an accidental alt-F4 killed my first response.]
Rest assured, super geeks moding kernels in their spare time? its fairly common for them to be powerbook users.
I go to CMU right now and Macs are very plentiful. Don't know when you were last at CMU but the Haberman cluster has ~90 iMacs intended for introductory CS classes. Apple even has a qtvr of it on their website ( http://www.apple.com/education/hed/c.../vr_large.html ).
Certiainly Macs are useful for programming. As my last roommate believed, who is a CS major, there are no good text editors for Windows or Linux (for coding), there's only BBEdit
But alas, I'm not a CS major... just an engineer, who uses Macs.
where as my moms imac, which is the same age, but a consumer machine and actually less expensive, is still a joy to use.
And my 17" MiniMe.....Hahahahahaha!!!!! Yes i feeeeeel the power. this laptop turns more heads than brittany spiers. Well maybe not more, but about the same. My only complaint about it is the fact that i can easily lose it in my bag cuz its so thin! jk
go to arstechnica and rave for OS X! some losers down their are calling it a pointless OS!
Gotta decide whether i want to go vertical or horizontal-
build buildings, or lay minefields, build culverts, bridges, and be a raaaaanger.
tough choice.
Originally posted by Imergingenious
i just tested this acceleration issue, and i must say that my pc mouse has acceleration. That doesnt save it from its clutter, 3rd party garbage apps, ugly and poorly thought out UI, lack of adium, frequent glitches, color inaccuracies, inability to remove microsoft programs such as msn (imagine being forced to keep that crap on your computer!), piss poor keyboard shortcuts, no iphoto/imovie/itunes/idvd, cant run unix apps, cant run mac apps, doesnt sync the new ipod i got instantly without any sofware upgrades/installs, entangled by countless numbers of security updates and service packs, no rendevous, no 802.11g built in, sounds like a vacum cleaner, and looks like it belongs at the dump. And it was top of the line just 2.5 years ago....
where as my moms imac, which is the same age, but a consumer machine and actually less expensive, is still a joy to use.
And my 17" MiniMe.....Hahahahahaha!!!!! Yes i feeeeeel the power. this laptop turns more heads than brittany spiers. Well maybe not more, but about the same. My only complaint about it is the fact that i can easily lose it in my bag cuz its so thin! jk
go to arstechnica and rave for OS X! some losers down their are calling it a pointless OS!
What are you using acceleration to indicate? I've never experienced dynamic tracking (at least not to the extent that the Mac has it) on any Windows OS, including XP and ME.
ok so i didnt do any advanced testing on the mouse, i just putt it between to stationary objects. and moved it between them at varying speeds. The mouse clearly went further when i moved it faster. The actual implimentation is probably different, i mean i can feel the difference, but it isnt due to a complete lack of mousing acceleration on the pc side.
Originally posted by Spart
What are you using acceleration to indicate? I've never experienced dynamic tracking (at least not to the extent that the Mac has it) on any Windows OS, including XP and ME.
Windows has had non-linear mouse acceleration since win95. The Mac curve is simply more dramatic.
Originally posted by chych
I go to CMU right now and Macs are very plentiful. Don't know when you were last at CMU but the Haberman cluster has ~90 iMacs intended for introductory CS classes.
The truley ironic part is that Macs used to be more prevailent on the arts side of campus. All the design, architecture, drama, etc... students used to be using Macs while the science side of campus used various *nix and PCs. Now it seems that the tables are fliped. CMU is buying PCs to run illustrator and photoshop and Macs for stdIO programming courses.
I would never have believed this scenario six or seven years ago. But then again... remember when Big Blue was the evil empire?