Dawg, your post makes a lot of good points regarding the price of a new Cube from the consumer point of view. However, I'm concerned that a Cube will take away customers from either the iMac or Towers. Thats OK so long as Apple is making as good or better profits on the Cube. Obviously in their first attempt they killed the cube by over pricing, but does it make sense for them to have a cheap Cube. If they make less on a cube than an iMac that would be bad. Furthermore, if iMac sales slide because of compitiion from the cube, then Apple's profits would be even more strained since volume affects profit margins. Another variable is guessing how many Cube customers would buy an Apple display verses another vendors display. I'm sure Apple has a group of people making these kind of calculations, then again they blew it once before. I still think a Cube could do more harm then good, but a limited edition -20th aniversary- Cube might make sense. I just doubt such a special edition Cube will come cheap with the intention of building a new market.
No ports on the front. The Cube had it right the first time, all the ports on the bottom. It's supposed to be *sleek*
Instead ship it with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard. Buy a pair of bluetooth headphones and you're set.
I can see it now, using Wi-Fi for connectivity I'll only have my monitor and power cord to trip over. Heaven.
I like your idea, but Bluetooth might not have enough bandwidth for all that stuff. And then you have the problem of keeping the peripherals charged. Having Bluetooth built in though is a good idea, even without a wireless keyboard/mouse.
Dawg, your post makes a lot of good points regarding the price of a new Cube from the consumer point of view. However, I'm concerned that a Cube will take away customers from either the iMac or Towers. Thats OK so long as Apple is making as good or better profits on the Cube. Obviously in their first attempt they killed the cube by over pricing, but does it make sense for them to have a cheap Cube. If they make less on a cube than an iMac that would be bad. Furthermore, if iMac sales slide because of compitiion from the cube, then Apple's profits would be even more strained since volume affects profit margins. Another variable is guessing how many Cube customers would buy an Apple display verses another vendors display. I'm sure Apple has a group of people making these kind of calculations, then again they blew it once before. I still think a Cube could do more harm then good, but a limited edition -20th aniversary- Cube might make sense. I just doubt such a special edition Cube will come cheap with the intention of building a new market.
Good point about the margins. I suppose Apple cannot take a chance with a cube that doesn't have margins at least as good as the iMac, because if it proves popular and cannibalizes iMac sales--game over. Still, it seems that since a cube has no LCD, it would be possible for Apple to sell it at a lower price than iMacs without sacrificing margins. Maybe Apple has some costs that we don't know about, but to me it seems as simple as putting the iMac guts in a cube case (probably cheaper to manufacture than a square cube), adding an agp slot, and subtracting the display and its arm (which is probably expensive to build). Seems that Apple's cost for a cube would be significantly less than an iMac.
If a cube had margins as good as or better than the iMac, then Apple has nothing to lose, IMO. If it cannibalizes iMac sales, Apple still wins, and by offering bundled specials with Apple LCD displays, Apple can squeeze even greater effective margins out of a cube.
While a cube undoubtedly will cannibalize some iMac sales, I don't think it will be enough to have an overall negative impact. Apple needs something for the wintel users who want a Mac but don't like the iMac's AIO design, and refuse to pay tower-prices. Seems like a cube is the answer.
Tried to keep it as similar to the previous design because I like that look. The colour of a possible new cube will be a more white-ish iMac like color I think. Apple could design a new cube with the top loading cd-rom drive, but I think they are unable to run at full speed in that position, so I tried to keep it horisontal by placing it at the top and out of the main cabinet to not hinder airflow. Ports are still at the bottom, and I'm keeping the handle open mechanism. Air is sucked in at the bottom, as been discussed here before, and blown out at the top trough small vents at the sides and trough bigger vents at the back.
The middel of the cube works as an air-tunnel lined with heatsinks coupled to components that needs cooling, possible coupled to more distant components via heatpipes.
This configuration will make it easy to keep a decent airflow trough the "wind-tunnel" with the cd-rom being kept out of the way and horisontal. The design is also kept very clean and Apple-like IMO.
So what do you think???
Don't be to harsh with me now
[administrative edit: image too wide, changed to link]
Nice design, I particularly like the optical drive at the top, something about the way it opens just seems right. I don't know too much about airflow & cooling design, but it looks like it would work to me. With a fan, just about anything would probably work--just look at how the iMac's internals are all crammed together in a tiny space that intuitively looks like it wouldn't cool enough. Of course, the low-power G4 helps, and with the next cube Apple would have to deal with cooling a REAL desktop CPU.
Ok, this is how the wind-tunnel and inside would look like.
The whole tunnel is actually a heatsink, and all the really hot components like the CPU and the GPU are coupled directly to the heat sink. The power supply and harddrive are also very close to the heatsink-"tunnel" but probably wont need to be cooled to much when the heat of the processors are led directly out of the cabinet. The gfx-card is placed into a AGP slot which makes it possible to change it.
Talking about margins of iMacs vs a Cube vs Powermacs vs etc. is all well and good and extremely important. But, maybe Apple should focus on what the customer wants, then maybe margins will take care of themselves.
"Keep the customer satisfied"
(stolen from a song by Simon & Garfunkel)
In light of Apple's stated goal of increasing market share, this then begs the question,"Whom does Apple consider their target market(s)"?
If a correctly priced Cube, with the appropriate features, fills that customers needs.... oh crap now I'm just rambling, nevermind
I would rather see them chop the monitor off of an eMac and sell it to people in schools and enterprise. Plenty of schools aren't about to throw out a perfectly good monitor and prefer the pizza box arrangement.
Ok, this is how the wind-tunnel and inside would look like.
The whole tunnel is actually a heatsink, and all the really hot components like the CPU and the GPU are coupled directly to the heat sink. The power supply and harddrive are also very close to the heatsink-"tunnel" but probably wont need to be cooled to much when the heat of the processors are led directly out of the cabinet. The gfx-card is placed into a PCI slot which makes it possible to change it.
netro
[edit: pic is seen from the top]
The gfx card should be AGP, not PCI. PCI isn't supported by Quartz Extreme. All Apple has to do is make sure that the AGP slot can hold full size cards.
Talking about margins of iMacs vs a Cube vs Powermacs vs etc. is all well and good and extremely important. But, maybe Apple should focus on what the customer wants, then maybe margins will take care of themselves.
That didn't happen last time. Granted, Apple seems to have learned its lesson.
Quote:
In light of Apple's stated goal of increasing market share, this then begs the question,"Whom does Apple consider their target market(s)"?
Peeve: It doesn't beg the question. "Begging the question" is the logical fallacy of assuming that the point you're trying to prove is true within the proof.
Nitpicks and pet peeves aside, this is a good point. Apple does have to figure out what features the Cube can offer within its design constraints, and how many people would want them.
Quote:
If a correctly priced Cube, with the appropriate features, fills that customers needs.... oh crap now I'm just rambling, nevermind
The 970 opens a window for the Cube's return, simply because it's different enough to allow Apple to do something "revolutionary" (note the quotes), or possibly even revolutionary. I wouldn't hold out for a consumer Cube, though. I have a feeling it would remain a professional line, for the simple reason that Jobs equates "consumer" with "AIO" (and there's a case to be made there) and he always has.
The gfx card should be AGP, not PCI. PCI isn't supported by Quartz Extreme. All Apple has to do is make sure that the AGP slot can hold full size cards.
As far as a Cube Redux, this is a no brainer. Just slap a 970 in it and offer it to all the developers at the WWDC this June...
There must be some 970's that fail the 1.4 ~ 1.8 GHz tests but run reliably at lower voltages and speeds. Running these chips at 1.0 ~ 1.2 GHz would make the heat output acceptable for the Cube's passive cooling (or even the Powerbook).
How about a mobo for the 970 in a Powerbook used in the Cube2? The integrated video card would allow the AGP slot to ship open, allowing expansion.
This is of course a most optimistic of speculation, and would require that Apple have planned this out for many months. If this be the case I'll take it over the top with a choice of a 970 Powerbook or Cube2 with the same mobo for a low price 970 workstation for developers at WWDC.
This would allow Apple to announce the Powermac 970 towers, taking orders and deposits for September release. Giving developers a jump start of three months to test and debug Panther's 970 performance and stability.
still liking pscates model best...and i think the recessed ports is a good thing because it would allow for the internal components to be pulled out in one big clump---just slide it out of the body....
still waiting for some color paul:
here is the red and green colors...the smoked grey is also a choice
cube: single processor, video card can be upgraged, ram added (2 open slots), one open apg slot (priced from 1299 to 1799 depending on chip speed and video card...ie for 1299 you get G4 1.2 with ati 9000 video card...for 1499 you get 970 1.2 and new ati 9200 video card...for 1799 you get 970 1.4 and ati 9700 video card)
PM: dual and quad processor, video card can be upgraded, ram added (4 open slots), 4 open apg slots (priced from 1699 on up)
iMac and eMac--single processor, can add ram
g
if you bundle those cubes with monitors they would fly---
Comments
Originally posted by snowy
No ports on the front. The Cube had it right the first time, all the ports on the bottom. It's supposed to be *sleek*
Instead ship it with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard. Buy a pair of bluetooth headphones and you're set.
I can see it now, using Wi-Fi for connectivity I'll only have my monitor and power cord to trip over. Heaven.
I like your idea, but Bluetooth might not have enough bandwidth for all that stuff. And then you have the problem of keeping the peripherals charged. Having Bluetooth built in though is a good idea, even without a wireless keyboard/mouse.
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
Dawg, your post makes a lot of good points regarding the price of a new Cube from the consumer point of view. However, I'm concerned that a Cube will take away customers from either the iMac or Towers. Thats OK so long as Apple is making as good or better profits on the Cube. Obviously in their first attempt they killed the cube by over pricing, but does it make sense for them to have a cheap Cube. If they make less on a cube than an iMac that would be bad. Furthermore, if iMac sales slide because of compitiion from the cube, then Apple's profits would be even more strained since volume affects profit margins. Another variable is guessing how many Cube customers would buy an Apple display verses another vendors display. I'm sure Apple has a group of people making these kind of calculations, then again they blew it once before. I still think a Cube could do more harm then good, but a limited edition -20th aniversary- Cube might make sense. I just doubt such a special edition Cube will come cheap with the intention of building a new market.
Good point about the margins. I suppose Apple cannot take a chance with a cube that doesn't have margins at least as good as the iMac, because if it proves popular and cannibalizes iMac sales--game over. Still, it seems that since a cube has no LCD, it would be possible for Apple to sell it at a lower price than iMacs without sacrificing margins. Maybe Apple has some costs that we don't know about, but to me it seems as simple as putting the iMac guts in a cube case (probably cheaper to manufacture than a square cube), adding an agp slot, and subtracting the display and its arm (which is probably expensive to build). Seems that Apple's cost for a cube would be significantly less than an iMac.
If a cube had margins as good as or better than the iMac, then Apple has nothing to lose, IMO. If it cannibalizes iMac sales, Apple still wins, and by offering bundled specials with Apple LCD displays, Apple can squeeze even greater effective margins out of a cube.
While a cube undoubtedly will cannibalize some iMac sales, I don't think it will be enough to have an overall negative impact. Apple needs something for the wintel users who want a Mac but don't like the iMac's AIO design, and refuse to pay tower-prices. Seems like a cube is the answer.
http://home.online.no/~mortehof/pics/nucube.jpg
Tried to keep it as similar to the previous design because I like that look. The colour of a possible new cube will be a more white-ish iMac like color I think. Apple could design a new cube with the top loading cd-rom drive, but I think they are unable to run at full speed in that position, so I tried to keep it horisontal by placing it at the top and out of the main cabinet to not hinder airflow. Ports are still at the bottom, and I'm keeping the handle open mechanism. Air is sucked in at the bottom, as been discussed here before, and blown out at the top trough small vents at the sides and trough bigger vents at the back.
The middel of the cube works as an air-tunnel lined with heatsinks coupled to components that needs cooling, possible coupled to more distant components via heatpipes.
This configuration will make it easy to keep a decent airflow trough the "wind-tunnel" with the cd-rom being kept out of the way and horisontal. The design is also kept very clean and Apple-like IMO.
So what do you think???
Don't be to harsh with me now
[administrative edit: image too wide, changed to link]
The whole tunnel is actually a heatsink, and all the really hot components like the CPU and the GPU are coupled directly to the heat sink. The power supply and harddrive are also very close to the heatsink-"tunnel" but probably wont need to be cooled to much when the heat of the processors are led directly out of the cabinet. The gfx-card is placed into a AGP slot which makes it possible to change it.
netro
[edit: pic is seen from the top]
"Keep the customer satisfied"
(stolen from a song by Simon & Garfunkel)
In light of Apple's stated goal of increasing market share, this then begs the question,"Whom does Apple consider their target market(s)"?
If a correctly priced Cube, with the appropriate features, fills that customers needs.... oh crap now I'm just rambling, nevermind
Bet you didn't think anyone knew that S&G song, didya?
One of my faves.
The first time I ever heard the words "slander" and "libel" and I went to look them up. I was in third grade.
Originally posted by NETROMac
Ok, this is how the wind-tunnel and inside would look like.
The whole tunnel is actually a heatsink, and all the really hot components like the CPU and the GPU are coupled directly to the heat sink. The power supply and harddrive are also very close to the heatsink-"tunnel" but probably wont need to be cooled to much when the heat of the processors are led directly out of the cabinet. The gfx-card is placed into a PCI slot which makes it possible to change it.
netro
[edit: pic is seen from the top]
The gfx card should be AGP, not PCI. PCI isn't supported by Quartz Extreme. All Apple has to do is make sure that the AGP slot can hold full size cards.
Originally posted by rickag
Talking about margins of iMacs vs a Cube vs Powermacs vs etc. is all well and good and extremely important. But, maybe Apple should focus on what the customer wants, then maybe margins will take care of themselves.
That didn't happen last time.
In light of Apple's stated goal of increasing market share, this then begs the question,"Whom does Apple consider their target market(s)"?
Peeve: It doesn't beg the question. "Begging the question" is the logical fallacy of assuming that the point you're trying to prove is true within the proof.
Nitpicks and pet peeves aside, this is a good point. Apple does have to figure out what features the Cube can offer within its design constraints, and how many people would want them.
If a correctly priced Cube, with the appropriate features, fills that customers needs.... oh crap now I'm just rambling, nevermind
The 970 opens a window for the Cube's return, simply because it's different enough to allow Apple to do something "revolutionary" (note the quotes), or possibly even revolutionary. I wouldn't hold out for a consumer Cube, though. I have a feeling it would remain a professional line, for the simple reason that Jobs equates "consumer" with "AIO" (and there's a case to be made there) and he always has.
Originally posted by CubeDude
The gfx card should be AGP, not PCI. PCI isn't supported by Quartz Extreme. All Apple has to do is make sure that the AGP slot can hold full size cards.
Oops, I meant AGP not PCI.
4 x 4 x 4 = 64
a 64bit processor in a cubic machine - ok, too much kabbala.
but i like the idea, presenting the first, lets say 10.000 970ers in a cubic shape - as "developer dream machine edition" ;-)
ok, now start throwing stones at me
Originally posted by Aphelion
As far as a Cube Redux, this is a no brainer. Just slap a 970 in it and offer it to all the developers at the WWDC this June...
There must be some 970's that fail the 1.4 ~ 1.8 GHz tests but run reliably at lower voltages and speeds. Running these chips at 1.0 ~ 1.2 GHz would make the heat output acceptable for the Cube's passive cooling (or even the Powerbook).
How about a mobo for the 970 in a Powerbook used in the Cube2? The integrated video card would allow the AGP slot to ship open, allowing expansion.
This is of course a most optimistic of speculation, and would require that Apple have planned this out for many months. If this be the case I'll take it over the top with a choice of a 970 Powerbook or Cube2 with the same mobo for a low price 970 workstation for developers at WWDC.
This would allow Apple to announce the Powermac 970 towers, taking orders and deposits for September release. Giving developers a jump start of three months to test and debug Panther's 970 performance and stability.
... Aphelion
still waiting for some color paul:
here is the red and green colors...the smoked grey is also a choice
g
Dual processor -- Powermac
That seems like the only reason to approach the cube again.
cube: single processor, video card can be upgraged, ram added (2 open slots), one open apg slot (priced from 1299 to 1799 depending on chip speed and video card...ie for 1299 you get G4 1.2 with ati 9000 video card...for 1499 you get 970 1.2 and new ati 9200 video card...for 1799 you get 970 1.4 and ati 9700 video card)
PM: dual and quad processor, video card can be upgraded, ram added (4 open slots), 4 open apg slots (priced from 1699 on up)
iMac and eMac--single processor, can add ram
g
if you bundle those cubes with monitors they would fly---
i would take the middle cube with a 20 lcd please
Originally posted by pscates
"Gee, but it's great to be back home...home is where I wanna be-eeee...I've been on the road so long..."
Bet you didn't think anyone knew that S&G song, didya?
One of my faves.
The first time I ever heard the words "slander" and "libel" and I went to look them up. I was in third grade.
My experience exactly. I can't believe someone else has that same story. LOVE that song.