<strong>There WILL NOT be a revision in the powerbook range till Feb 2003 - I really don't know how else I can keep trying to convince you all</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well in that case, Apple's awfully F'n stupid...because look at their quarterly earnings...the "pros" aren't buying it. It's obvious to everyone else why they aren't buying it: Price/performance is not there! Get with it fellas! <------ (that's to Apple management)
[quote]Originally posted by klinux:
<strong>Yes, countb, although I have seen, used, and like the MS tablet, I too believe that Apple could make a much better one.
The major problem I see is that the Apple version would still have that Apple $$$ premium.</strong><hr></blockquote>Oh, there's no question Apple could build a better one. Will they?
[quote] It's obvious to everyone else why they aren't buying it: Price/performance is not there! <hr></blockquote>
I disagree. I think that right now price/performance is there. Right now the 800mhz ti is one of the best perfroming notebooks and is the best as far as design form etc. The problem is the potential price/potential performance factor. As is classic of Apple customers (me included)people just stop buying 5 months out because they believe a new model is on deck and they do not want to plop down 3 grand for a notebook that you can get for 2 grand two weeks later, not to mention the 2 grand one will have better perfromance. EXAMPLE: I go to Apple.com and order a 800mhz fully loaded for $3500, it is possible if not likely that on Nov. 5 Apple will release a new powerbook and could a new rev 800mhz with all the custom features that have become standard in the new rev for $2500. I know I would kick myself, and that is why people are waiting. Apple's secret, infrequent, and nonsense way of updating products is at fault. Smaller more frequent updates are the answer rather than infrequent random updates, but it will never happen.
I just wish Apple products would evolve rather than mutate.
<strong>Yes, countb, although I have seen, used, and like the MS tablet, I too believe that Apple could make a much better one.
The major problem I see is that the Apple version would still have that Apple $$$ premium.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And Apple makes stuff which screams BUY ME! I own an iPod for this reason. But yes, price is an issue, it needs to be under $800 - which could be done I think by using G3s, built-in batteries etc
I can't sign up to the practicalities of a tablet.
Would the greasy smears and marks from your hand not prevent use of a tablet for more than point and click browsing? If I'm browsing I like the base of the laptop so I can angle the screen properly if it's on a table or my lap.
Am I missing something? It shouldn't be about using the technology, it should be about the application.
With that said...the scale of the "fake?" duo may be just large enough to be usefull, and small enough to be practical...
It's like web tv...who wants to read an email or view a page in low resolution from across the room.
the only practical way to include a tablet on the powerbook is to enhance the trackpad area. For one thing Photoshop users need the keyboard for shortcuts, and hiding the keyboard limits all sorts of other applications. As for entering data, have you sat and 'written' with a stylus for more than 10 seconds? After the novelty wears off it's a pain in the backside, and ultimately slower than a keyboard.
However, a drawing surface below the keyboard would be flippin' marvelous
Tablets have a lot of theoretical advantages. The problem has always been translating them into practical advantages. For example:
Handwriting might be slower than typing for trained or experienced typists, but handwriting is more universal, friendlier to languages like Chinese, much less likely to result in RSI, and much more versatile insofar as it makes it easy and intuitive to mix text and graphics, delete words, transpose characters, etc. with standard motions. Pens are much more gesture friendly - and therefor much more capable of expressing different commands concisely to a computer - than mice are. That's theory. In practice, recognizing handwriting, and distinguishing text from images from gestures, has proven to be a daunting problem. In despite of the pen's theoretical ergonomic advantage, most pen-interface styluses are tiny and cramping (Wacom's is a welcome exception). Furthermore, pens are different enough from mice that it's not adequate to treat them like mice. Sure, you can treat pecking with a pen like pointing and clicking with a mouse, but that's about it. That means that the tablet's user interface should really be reengineered for a pen instead of a mouse and keyboard, and the applications have to be able to adapt to the versatility of the pen. Also, the interface would have to be redesigned for a small, dense screen. Aqua on a 10" screen? Not likely. By now, of course, you've got something that's its own platform, which means it can't leverage the Mac's application base, which is another problem. Cocoa and Java/Swing are high enough level that most of those apps could make the leap easily enough (though not effortlessly), but there would be no such luck for Carbon apps.
Weight and battery life are also issues. The biggest reason to leave off an optical drive isn't that it's too big, it's that it adds half a pound and eats batteries. Hard drives are also heavy and hungry, and AirPort is hungry as well. Maybe the tablet could forgo AirPort in favor of a built-in cell phone? There is a delicate balance here: The things that could make a tablet more independent also distinguish it less from a laptop and tether the user more often (because the battery doesn't last), but the things that could make a tablet lighter and longer-lasting would make it dependent on a "normal" Mac - or at least, the bagful of accessories familiar to any subnotebook user - for full functionality.
I'm leaning toward the latter idea - of the tablet as adjunct to a Mac - because in both home and enterprise settings, the computer or network you sync with is never going to be too far away, and a light weight with an all-day battery life would make it especially convenient and versatile. Apple could also be relieved of trying to make it a fully interactive multimedia machine, as well - if you want that, get a notebook - and they could price it attractively.
But they'd have to deal with all the issues I outlined above first, and there's the rub. If I'm going to get a tablet, it's going to be something engineered to best exploit the form, not a funny-looking notebook.
As for a hybrid tablet/notebook: It's either going to be a cumbersome tablet or a funny-looking notebook. The idea is superficially appealing, but I think a tablet is difficult enough to do right without trying to merge it with a different form that presents a different interface to the user (trackpad and keyboard).
Comments
<strong>There WILL NOT be a revision in the powerbook range till Feb 2003 - I really don't know how else I can keep trying to convince you all</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well in that case, Apple's awfully F'n stupid...because look at their quarterly earnings...the "pros" aren't buying it. It's obvious to everyone else why they aren't buying it: Price/performance is not there! Get with it fellas! <------ (that's to Apple management)
[quote]Originally posted by klinux:
<strong>Yes, countb, although I have seen, used, and like the MS tablet, I too believe that Apple could make a much better one.
The major problem I see is that the Apple version would still have that Apple $$$ premium.</strong><hr></blockquote>Oh, there's no question Apple could build a better one. Will they?
[ 10-16-2002: Message edited by: Dave Hagan ]</p>
I disagree. I think that right now price/performance is there. Right now the 800mhz ti is one of the best perfroming notebooks and is the best as far as design form etc. The problem is the potential price/potential performance factor. As is classic of Apple customers (me included)people just stop buying 5 months out because they believe a new model is on deck and they do not want to plop down 3 grand for a notebook that you can get for 2 grand two weeks later, not to mention the 2 grand one will have better perfromance. EXAMPLE: I go to Apple.com and order a 800mhz fully loaded for $3500, it is possible if not likely that on Nov. 5 Apple will release a new powerbook and could a new rev 800mhz with all the custom features that have become standard in the new rev for $2500. I know I would kick myself, and that is why people are waiting. Apple's secret, infrequent, and nonsense way of updating products is at fault. Smaller more frequent updates are the answer rather than infrequent random updates, but it will never happen.
I just wish Apple products would evolve rather than mutate.
[ 10-16-2002: Message edited by: FlashGordon ]</p>
<strong>Yes, countb, although I have seen, used, and like the MS tablet, I too believe that Apple could make a much better one.
The major problem I see is that the Apple version would still have that Apple $$$ premium.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And Apple makes stuff which screams BUY ME! I own an iPod for this reason. But yes, price is an issue, it needs to be under $800 - which could be done I think by using G3s, built-in batteries etc
Blackcat
I don't know much about this but what if apple made the next powerbook out of liquid metal. It is supposed to be stronger and lighter than titanium.
<a href="http://www.liquidmetal.com"; target="_blank">www.liquidmetal.com</a>
just an idea?
[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: macman424 ]</p>
Would the greasy smears and marks from your hand not prevent use of a tablet for more than point and click browsing? If I'm browsing I like the base of the laptop so I can angle the screen properly if it's on a table or my lap.
Am I missing something? It shouldn't be about using the technology, it should be about the application.
With that said...the scale of the "fake?" duo may be just large enough to be usefull, and small enough to be practical...
It's like web tv...who wants to read an email or view a page in low resolution from across the room.
jw
[ 10-22-2002: Message edited by: Laughingboy ]</p>
However, a drawing surface below the keyboard would be flippin' marvelous
Handwriting might be slower than typing for trained or experienced typists, but handwriting is more universal, friendlier to languages like Chinese, much less likely to result in RSI, and much more versatile insofar as it makes it easy and intuitive to mix text and graphics, delete words, transpose characters, etc. with standard motions. Pens are much more gesture friendly - and therefor much more capable of expressing different commands concisely to a computer - than mice are. That's theory. In practice, recognizing handwriting, and distinguishing text from images from gestures, has proven to be a daunting problem. In despite of the pen's theoretical ergonomic advantage, most pen-interface styluses are tiny and cramping (Wacom's is a welcome exception). Furthermore, pens are different enough from mice that it's not adequate to treat them like mice. Sure, you can treat pecking with a pen like pointing and clicking with a mouse, but that's about it. That means that the tablet's user interface should really be reengineered for a pen instead of a mouse and keyboard, and the applications have to be able to adapt to the versatility of the pen. Also, the interface would have to be redesigned for a small, dense screen. Aqua on a 10" screen? Not likely. By now, of course, you've got something that's its own platform, which means it can't leverage the Mac's application base, which is another problem. Cocoa and Java/Swing are high enough level that most of those apps could make the leap easily enough (though not effortlessly), but there would be no such luck for Carbon apps.
Weight and battery life are also issues. The biggest reason to leave off an optical drive isn't that it's too big, it's that it adds half a pound and eats batteries. Hard drives are also heavy and hungry, and AirPort is hungry as well. Maybe the tablet could forgo AirPort in favor of a built-in cell phone? There is a delicate balance here: The things that could make a tablet more independent also distinguish it less from a laptop and tether the user more often (because the battery doesn't last), but the things that could make a tablet lighter and longer-lasting would make it dependent on a "normal" Mac - or at least, the bagful of accessories familiar to any subnotebook user - for full functionality.
I'm leaning toward the latter idea - of the tablet as adjunct to a Mac - because in both home and enterprise settings, the computer or network you sync with is never going to be too far away, and a light weight with an all-day battery life would make it especially convenient and versatile. Apple could also be relieved of trying to make it a fully interactive multimedia machine, as well - if you want that, get a notebook - and they could price it attractively.
But they'd have to deal with all the issues I outlined above first, and there's the rub. If I'm going to get a tablet, it's going to be something engineered to best exploit the form, not a funny-looking notebook.
As for a hybrid tablet/notebook: It's either going to be a cumbersome tablet or a funny-looking notebook. The idea is superficially appealing, but I think a tablet is difficult enough to do right without trying to merge it with a different form that presents a different interface to the user (trackpad and keyboard).
[ 10-24-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]
[ 10-24-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>