Greetings Powerdoc, I would only contribute to what you said by saying it is how leadership and government leads and rules. Hitler and the Nazis had an idea of how to lead and rule but it was not pluralistic. It was rather a more narrow philosophy of control and influence. Any religion on its own is neither good nor bad per say. It is when a government chooses a form of leadership and rule that sides against and guards against a pluralistic society that I view as dangerous and immoral.
Fellowship
You are right, but in order to have an harmony the religion must respect the law of the countries. The sharia canno't cohibitate with modern value of democratia. To my humble and ignorant advice, the sharia is not an important aspect of islam and should be removed. Some group of muslims think otherwise, therefore, they will try to make apply these laws, because it's in import ant aspect of their religions for them.
Pluralistic society imply a sharing of some common values of democratia, without this sharing nothing is possible : you will just obtain various group of people obeying to differents laws. Unfortunately no perfect isolation of a group tower another is possible, there will be always a case implying two members of the two communities. When such a case occur both communities will accept the judgement if only both share the sames laws.
Like Immanuel Goldstein said in a earlier post, religions should respect the laws of each countries. Laws tends to control the real life, and are not concerned by the spiritual life. Some religious laws do not create interference with countrie laws, like what you are supposed to eat (because according to nearly all democratic laws you can eat whatever you want exept human flesh), others like Sharia obviously create interferences.
I do not live in Pakistan nor does it affect me how they govern themselves. I ask you all how you view the combination of Church and State in Government. I firmly believe in a secular and pluralistic style of government that is not hardline in any religion.
I don't think anyone apart from extremists would disagree with you there, FCiB.
As far as I am concerned, there is nothing wrong with Islam per say.....
It is the imposition of shariah law that truly sucks..
Mind you, there are plenty of bad things about our societal values..so I really don't think it is out business to throw stones.
Besides which, people invariably get sick of oppression no matter from what quarter..so given time. the people of Pakistan will toss in their passion for fundamentalism and take on the mantle of liberty..islam style...
I doubt that Pakistanis feel "out of control". The "law is not decided upon by the people it's enforced on"? I thought you was not an advocate or a lawyer.
US citizens must feel "on control". All those are actual laws btw.
Okay so how does one pass a new islamic law? How does one change an old islamic law? You can't. Ergo there's no control over it. Duh?
Strong convictions leads to strongs antagonism in discussions forums, but for my part i never considered Fship or any othes members of second class citizens especially on the sole basis of their faith.
You seems to cry Wolf here.
I have been 1st class all the way. If I were put in prison for my religious beliefs of shot and killed for them then I might feel I was being treated as a second class citizen.
Being that I have my life and my health and I am filled with joy every day for me is first class.
Comments
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Greetings Powerdoc, I would only contribute to what you said by saying it is how leadership and government leads and rules. Hitler and the Nazis had an idea of how to lead and rule but it was not pluralistic. It was rather a more narrow philosophy of control and influence. Any religion on its own is neither good nor bad per say. It is when a government chooses a form of leadership and rule that sides against and guards against a pluralistic society that I view as dangerous and immoral.
Fellowship
You are right, but in order to have an harmony the religion must respect the law of the countries. The sharia canno't cohibitate with modern value of democratia. To my humble and ignorant advice, the sharia is not an important aspect of islam and should be removed. Some group of muslims think otherwise, therefore, they will try to make apply these laws, because it's in import ant aspect of their religions for them.
Pluralistic society imply a sharing of some common values of democratia, without this sharing nothing is possible : you will just obtain various group of people obeying to differents laws. Unfortunately no perfect isolation of a group tower another is possible, there will be always a case implying two members of the two communities. When such a case occur both communities will accept the judgement if only both share the sames laws.
Like Immanuel Goldstein said in a earlier post, religions should respect the laws of each countries. Laws tends to control the real life, and are not concerned by the spiritual life. Some religious laws do not create interference with countrie laws, like what you are supposed to eat (because according to nearly all democratic laws you can eat whatever you want exept human flesh), others like Sharia obviously create interferences.
That's just i wanted to say.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I do not live in Pakistan nor does it affect me how they govern themselves. I ask you all how you view the combination of Church and State in Government. I firmly believe in a secular and pluralistic style of government that is not hardline in any religion.
I don't think anyone apart from extremists would disagree with you there, FCiB.
Barto
It is the imposition of shariah law that truly sucks..
Mind you, there are plenty of bad things about our societal values..so I really don't think it is out business to throw stones.
Besides which, people invariably get sick of oppression no matter from what quarter..so given time. the people of Pakistan will toss in their passion for fundamentalism and take on the mantle of liberty..islam style...
There is always hope...
Originally posted by Giaguara
Excuse me?
I doubt that Pakistanis feel "out of control". The "law is not decided upon by the people it's enforced on"? I thought you was not an advocate or a lawyer.
US citizens must feel "on control". All those are actual laws btw.
Okay so how does one pass a new islamic law? How does one change an old islamic law? You can't. Ergo there's no control over it. Duh?
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Strong convictions leads to strongs antagonism in discussions forums, but for my part i never considered Fship or any othes members of second class citizens especially on the sole basis of their faith.
You seems to cry Wolf here.
I have been 1st class all the way. If I were put in prison for my religious beliefs of shot and killed for them then I might feel I was being treated as a second class citizen.
Being that I have my life and my health and I am filled with joy every day for me is first class.
Fellowship