Well, the whole 'Sosa/McGuire' homerun record deal ... the record they were breaking was set at a time when the number of games in a season was a lot less than today. So they also had more chance to hit those homers than some of the previous record holders.
Nope. The record they broke was set by Roger Maris. The season was 162 games long for him too. The previous record was 60 set by Babe Ruth but he did that in only 154 games which is why for years many people still regarded Ruth as the "true" record holder.
Mark McGwire broke Maris' record in 1998 with 70 homeruns. Barry Bonds broke McGwire's record in 2001 with 73 home runs. They both played in more games than did Ruth, of course, but they also hit their homeruns at a far faster clip so it's a moot point. When Ruth hit his 60 he did so at a rate of one every 2.5667 games. This means that if he played 8 more games that year he probably would have hit 3 more home runs. McGwire hit at a rate of one every 2.3143 games. Bonds hit a home run every 2.2191 games. Sosa's rate was one every 2.4545 games.
When comparing stats there are other factors as relevant as the number of games. In 1927 Ruth didn't have to worry about facing a fresh reliever in the latter innings of a game. How many dingers did he get off of a spent starter late in a game? Also Ruth and Maris had a lot more protection in their line-ups than did either McGwire or Bonds. Bonds set a record for number of walks the year he broke the record. How many quality pitches do you think he saw that year?
Nope. The record they broke was set by Roger Maris. The season was 162 games long for him too. The previous record was 60 set by Babe Ruth but he did that in only 154 games which is why for years many people still regarded Ruth as the "true" record holder.
Mark McGwire broke Maris' record in 1998 with 70 homeruns. Barry Bonds broke McGwire's record in 2001 with 73 home runs. They both played in more games than did Ruth, of course, but they also hit their homeruns at a far faster clip so it's a moot point. When Ruth hit his 60 he did so at a rate of one every 2.5667 games. This means that if he played 8 more games that year he probably would have hit 3 more home runs. McGwire hit at a rate of one every 2.3143 games. Bonds hit a home run every 2.2191 games. Sosa's rate was one every 2.4545 games.
When comparing stats there are other factors as relevant as the number of games. In 1927 Ruth didn't have to worry about facing a fresh reliever in the latter innings of a game. How many dingers did he get off of a spent starter late in a game? Also Ruth and Maris had a lot more protection in their line-ups than did either McGwire or Bonds. Bonds set a record for number of walks the year he broke the record. How many quality pitches do you think he saw that year?
you're bill james aren't you? good post! but remember the babe did all that while entertaining hookers 2 at a time and drinking like a drowning man the night before.
you're bill james aren't you? good post! but remember the babe did all that while entertaining hookers 2 at a time and drinking like a drowning man the night before.
you mean the guy who hit 49 homeruns his rookie year, and also won the golden glove (later)? that one dimensional hack?
Gold Gloves really aren't that hard to come by. JT Snow has six of em! And Snow also had a career year where he hit 28 homers, but he's still not an offensive player...there-by making him one dimensional. Plus, Snow's a first baseman like Marky-boy was...probably the easiest fielding position there is. If MO VAUGHN could handle first base....
sure, but if you suck at fielding they don't give you a gold glove.
as for the phony comments, his rookie year when he had 49 homeruns, there was one game left in the season. at that time there were only a dozen or so players who'd ever hit 50 homeruns in a season. he had a chance as a rookie to join that list by missed his last game of the season to be with his wife who had just given birth to their sun.
(sorry, but i was a huge mcguire fan as a kid, and my best friend loved boggs. we used to go back and forth. it kind of annoyed me when everyone and their grandma started paying attention to him after he started hitting all those homeruns)
sure, but if you suck at fielding they don't give you a gold glove.
being a slugger makes it a hell of a lot easier to win the gold glove, especially at a power position like first base. the voters see that someone was a great offensive player and automatically correlate that w/ being a good baseball player, and thus must be a good defensive player. this is why this award has become such a joke, and i have absolutely no respect for it, especially at the first base position. some players deserve it, and get it, but there are still alot that get it that dont deserve it. look at JT Snow, as eugene pointed out. JT is one of the best defensive first basemen in baseball, but cant hit a lick. he has to be almost twice as good as other first basemen defensively just to be considered because of the negative image he originally gave himself w/ his weak bat. but now that he has established himself as a premiere defensive player, it is a given to everyone that he is a solid first baseman, which is why the voters continually give him this award. mac wasnt a terrible first baseman, but he sure as hell wasnt a great one. he was merely adequate.
and when i say he is one-dimensional, i look at him compared to some 5-tool players. he has only one of these tools, hitting for power, which is why i refuse to call him a good baseball player. he was merely a good slugger.
Well, the whole 'Sosa/McGuire' homerun record deal ... the record they were breaking was set at a time when the number of games in a season was a lot less than today. So they also had more chance to hit those homers than some of the previous record holders.
Maris' record was set in a 162 game season. Some people wanted to attach an asterisk to it because Ruth set the old record in 154 games. But no asterisk needed for Mac/Bonds. For number of games, anyway.
this is part of what is destroying the game. damn i hate the press...
the press loved roberto clemente.
sammy is dominican by the way.
i just think some people (the press?) see through sammy's humble facade. at times he's been despised in the clubhouse at times, he has a valet who gets a locker next to his. in order to have a locker the valet is officially bullpen assistant or something like that. there are a lot of reasons to resent him.
i don't resent or hate him but i gave up on the hero worship thing a long time ago. (except ernie banks) i don't expect millionaires in general to be idealists, because if i was one i sure wouldn't be.
i think he's a great player who usually gives his all. i don't think he's as good a clutch player as some, when he gets hot he's just amazing to watch. he also works on things he thinks he deficient at.
my only problem with him is some of the things that come out of his mouth, and that may be a language thing. (showing up late at spring training and telling players that have been working out for two weeks that everything is cool cause sammy is in the house now)
and blaming the press well that's just ludicrous, some pilloried him, some were pretty sweet to him.
i'm inclined to believe he was going through a crisis of confidence and was pulling the corked bat out to get an edge, he had used the same bat off and on since coming off the dl.
i just think some people (the press?) see through sammy's humble facade. at times he's been despised in the clubhouse at times, he has a valet who gets a locker next to his. in order to have a locker the valet is officially bullpen assistant or something like that. there are a lot of reasons to resent him.
i don't resent or hate him but i gave up on the hero worship thing a long time ago. (except ernie banks) i don't expect millionaires in general to be idealists, because if i was one i sure wouldn't be.
i think he's a great player who usually gives his all. i don't think he's as good a clutch player as some, when he gets hot he's just amazing to watch. he also works on things he thinks he deficient at.
my only problem with him is some of the things that come out of his mouth, and that may be a language thing. (showing up late at spring training and telling players that have been working out for two weeks that everything is cool cause sammy is in the house now)
and blaming the press well that's just ludicrous, some pilloried him, some were pretty sweet to him.
i'm inclined to believe he was going through a crisis of confidence and was pulling the corked bat out to get an edge, he had used the same bat off and on since coming off the dl.
see, i understand this and i think it's a valid perspective. however, i think the same should be applied to big mac. the press loved him, but i dont think their adoration of him was warrented. maybe he was just the ultimate suckup...
Someone was pulling the thread off topic by defending Bonds or some other player, can't remember, don't care to look. I asked them to keep the player flames out of the thread.
I don't think the 70+ OK bats gets him off the hook in any way. He wouldn't keep 10 corked bats because it would be too easy to get busted. Having one is 'safer' and makes you look less guilty.
I do think the home run #498 bat that was not corked works in his favor though.
see, i understand this and i think it's a valid perspective. however, i think the same should be applied to big mac. the press loved him, but i dont think their adoration of him was warrented. maybe he was just the ultimate suckup...
didn't mcguire have a general disdain for the press? i mean before the record? and when it got crazy?
the problem that sportswriters have is that they know stuff that they can't write about, either because it's just not relevant (like a recent cub manager who liked 'em young) or it's semi relevent but reporting it would make them pariahs, (mark grace's absolute hatred of sosa. hundley drinking, farnsworths drinking etc.) and make it difficult to do there jobs.
the only thing people in the press love is a good story, and by that i mean something people just can't get enough of.
see, i understand this and i think it's a valid perspective. however, i think the same should be applied to big mac. the press loved him, but i dont think their adoration of him was warrented. maybe he was just the ultimate suckup...
didn't mcguire have a general disdain for the press? i mean before the record? and when it got crazy?
the problem that sportswriters have is that they know stuff that they can't write about, either because it's just not relevant (like a recent cub manager who liked 'em young) or it's semi relevant but reporting it would make them pariahs, (mark grace's absolute hatred of sosa. hundley drinking, farnsworths drinking etc.) and make it difficult to do there jobs.
the only thing people in the press love is a good story, and by that i mean something people just can't get enough of.
As an Aussie I actually prefer baseball to cricket..
There is a football ( winter ) & baseball (summer) stadium just a short distance away from where I live..Some summer nights ( played under lights ) you can hear the baseball crowds roaring their appproval over a strike out or home run..
But what I want to ask.. is what is the rule concerning the make up of a bat?
they do use aluminum in college high school, and little leagues.
the bat:
rule 1.10
(a) The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2 3/4 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. The bat shall be one piece of solid wood. NOTE: No laminated or experimental bats shall be used in a professional game (either championship season or exhibition games) until the manufacturer has secured approval from the Rules Committee of his design and methods of manufacture. (b) Cupped Bats. An indentation in the end of the bat up to one inch in depth is permitted and may be no wider than two inches and no less than one inch in diameter. The indentation must be curved with no foreign substance added. (c) The bat handle, for not more than 18 inches from its end, may be covered or treated with any material or substance to improve the grip. Any such material or substance, which extends past the 18 inch limitation, shall cause the bat to be removed from the game. NOTE: If the umpire discovers that the bat does not conform to (c) above until a time during or after which the bat has been used in play, it shall not be grounds for declaring the batter out, or ejected from the game. (d) No colored bat may be used in a professional game unless approved by the Rules Committee.
why he was ejected and will be suspended:
rule 6.06.d
(d) He uses or attempts to use a bat that, in the umpire's judgment, has been altered or tampered with in such a way to improve the distance factor or cause an unusual reaction on the baseball. This includes, bats that are filled, flat surfaced, nailed, hollowed, grooved or covered with a substance such as paraffin, wax, etc. No advancement on the bases will be allowed and any out or outs made during a play shall stand. In addition to being called out, the player shall be ejected from the game and may be subject to additional penalties as determined by his League President.
No, it doesn't because corked bats don't help one damn bit.
obviously sammy disagrees with you, he has one, to put on "shows" for the fans. (which according to the trib this morning, he's usually the first done with B.P. so not too many fans get to see his "show".) so he thinks it helps.
i know physics professors everywhere are weighing in with their opinions (on whether a corked bat aids to distance), but clearly sammy hasn't been swinging the bat real well since he was beaned and eight strikes outs in two games (some with the same bat) has his confidence shaken. and i think the cork was more for confidence than physics instructors.
and i don't think he was using it to hit the ball further i think he was using it to get around quicker. it's not illegal because it makes the ball go farther it's illegal because it artificially increases swing speeds.
Comments
Originally posted by pyr3
Well, the whole 'Sosa/McGuire' homerun record deal ... the record they were breaking was set at a time when the number of games in a season was a lot less than today. So they also had more chance to hit those homers than some of the previous record holders.
Nope. The record they broke was set by Roger Maris. The season was 162 games long for him too. The previous record was 60 set by Babe Ruth but he did that in only 154 games which is why for years many people still regarded Ruth as the "true" record holder.
Mark McGwire broke Maris' record in 1998 with 70 homeruns. Barry Bonds broke McGwire's record in 2001 with 73 home runs. They both played in more games than did Ruth, of course, but they also hit their homeruns at a far faster clip so it's a moot point. When Ruth hit his 60 he did so at a rate of one every 2.5667 games. This means that if he played 8 more games that year he probably would have hit 3 more home runs. McGwire hit at a rate of one every 2.3143 games. Bonds hit a home run every 2.2191 games. Sosa's rate was one every 2.4545 games.
When comparing stats there are other factors as relevant as the number of games. In 1927 Ruth didn't have to worry about facing a fresh reliever in the latter innings of a game. How many dingers did he get off of a spent starter late in a game? Also Ruth and Maris had a lot more protection in their line-ups than did either McGwire or Bonds. Bonds set a record for number of walks the year he broke the record. How many quality pitches do you think he saw that year?
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Nope. The record they broke was set by Roger Maris. The season was 162 games long for him too. The previous record was 60 set by Babe Ruth but he did that in only 154 games which is why for years many people still regarded Ruth as the "true" record holder.
Mark McGwire broke Maris' record in 1998 with 70 homeruns. Barry Bonds broke McGwire's record in 2001 with 73 home runs. They both played in more games than did Ruth, of course, but they also hit their homeruns at a far faster clip so it's a moot point. When Ruth hit his 60 he did so at a rate of one every 2.5667 games. This means that if he played 8 more games that year he probably would have hit 3 more home runs. McGwire hit at a rate of one every 2.3143 games. Bonds hit a home run every 2.2191 games. Sosa's rate was one every 2.4545 games.
When comparing stats there are other factors as relevant as the number of games. In 1927 Ruth didn't have to worry about facing a fresh reliever in the latter innings of a game. How many dingers did he get off of a spent starter late in a game? Also Ruth and Maris had a lot more protection in their line-ups than did either McGwire or Bonds. Bonds set a record for number of walks the year he broke the record. How many quality pitches do you think he saw that year?
you're bill james aren't you? good post! but remember the babe did all that while entertaining hookers 2 at a time and drinking like a drowning man the night before.
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
you're bill james aren't you? good post! but remember the babe did all that while entertaining hookers 2 at a time and drinking like a drowning man the night before.
Originally posted by alcimedes
you mean the guy who hit 49 homeruns his rookie year, and also won the golden glove (later)? that one dimensional hack?
Gold Gloves really aren't that hard to come by. JT Snow has six of em! And Snow also had a career year where he hit 28 homers, but he's still not an offensive player...there-by making him one dimensional. Plus, Snow's a first baseman like Marky-boy was...probably the easiest fielding position there is. If MO VAUGHN could handle first base....
Originally posted by bunge
No, this thread was about Sammy's corked bat, dumba$$, not about which player is the best.
And Sosa's corked bat calls into question where he ranks on the list of best hitters in baseball.
as for the phony comments, his rookie year when he had 49 homeruns, there was one game left in the season. at that time there were only a dozen or so players who'd ever hit 50 homeruns in a season. he had a chance as a rookie to join that list by missed his last game of the season to be with his wife who had just given birth to their sun.
(sorry, but i was a huge mcguire fan as a kid, and my best friend loved boggs. we used to go back and forth. it kind of annoyed me when everyone and their grandma started paying attention to him after he started hitting all those homeruns)
Originally posted by satchmo
Perhaps because he was the picture of the All-American ball player. White and born in raised in the U.S.A. Where as Sosa is Cuban(?) and black.
this is part of what is destroying the game. damn i hate the press...
Originally posted by bunge
No, this thread was about Sammy's corked bat, dumba$$, not about which player is the best.
why the hell are you even posting on this thread?? you have nothing useful to add except being a jackass.
Originally posted by alcimedes
sure, but if you suck at fielding they don't give you a gold glove.
being a slugger makes it a hell of a lot easier to win the gold glove, especially at a power position like first base. the voters see that someone was a great offensive player and automatically correlate that w/ being a good baseball player, and thus must be a good defensive player. this is why this award has become such a joke, and i have absolutely no respect for it, especially at the first base position. some players deserve it, and get it, but there are still alot that get it that dont deserve it. look at JT Snow, as eugene pointed out. JT is one of the best defensive first basemen in baseball, but cant hit a lick. he has to be almost twice as good as other first basemen defensively just to be considered because of the negative image he originally gave himself w/ his weak bat. but now that he has established himself as a premiere defensive player, it is a given to everyone that he is a solid first baseman, which is why the voters continually give him this award. mac wasnt a terrible first baseman, but he sure as hell wasnt a great one. he was merely adequate.
and when i say he is one-dimensional, i look at him compared to some 5-tool players. he has only one of these tools, hitting for power, which is why i refuse to call him a good baseball player. he was merely a good slugger.
Originally posted by pyr3
Well, the whole 'Sosa/McGuire' homerun record deal ... the record they were breaking was set at a time when the number of games in a season was a lot less than today. So they also had more chance to hit those homers than some of the previous record holders.
Maris' record was set in a 162 game season. Some people wanted to attach an asterisk to it because Ruth set the old record in 154 games. But no asterisk needed for Mac/Bonds. For number of games, anyway.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
this is part of what is destroying the game. damn i hate the press...
the press loved roberto clemente.
sammy is dominican by the way.
i just think some people (the press?) see through sammy's humble facade. at times he's been despised in the clubhouse at times, he has a valet who gets a locker next to his. in order to have a locker the valet is officially bullpen assistant or something like that. there are a lot of reasons to resent him.
i don't resent or hate him but i gave up on the hero worship thing a long time ago. (except ernie banks) i don't expect millionaires in general to be idealists, because if i was one i sure wouldn't be.
i think he's a great player who usually gives his all. i don't think he's as good a clutch player as some, when he gets hot he's just amazing to watch. he also works on things he thinks he deficient at.
my only problem with him is some of the things that come out of his mouth, and that may be a language thing. (showing up late at spring training and telling players that have been working out for two weeks that everything is cool cause sammy is in the house now)
and blaming the press well that's just ludicrous, some pilloried him, some were pretty sweet to him.
i'm inclined to believe he was going through a crisis of confidence and was pulling the corked bat out to get an edge, he had used the same bat off and on since coming off the dl.
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
the press loved roberto clemente.
sammy is dominican by the way.
i just think some people (the press?) see through sammy's humble facade. at times he's been despised in the clubhouse at times, he has a valet who gets a locker next to his. in order to have a locker the valet is officially bullpen assistant or something like that. there are a lot of reasons to resent him.
i don't resent or hate him but i gave up on the hero worship thing a long time ago. (except ernie banks) i don't expect millionaires in general to be idealists, because if i was one i sure wouldn't be.
i think he's a great player who usually gives his all. i don't think he's as good a clutch player as some, when he gets hot he's just amazing to watch. he also works on things he thinks he deficient at.
my only problem with him is some of the things that come out of his mouth, and that may be a language thing. (showing up late at spring training and telling players that have been working out for two weeks that everything is cool cause sammy is in the house now)
and blaming the press well that's just ludicrous, some pilloried him, some were pretty sweet to him.
i'm inclined to believe he was going through a crisis of confidence and was pulling the corked bat out to get an edge, he had used the same bat off and on since coming off the dl.
see, i understand this and i think it's a valid perspective. however, i think the same should be applied to big mac. the press loved him, but i dont think their adoration of him was warrented. maybe he was just the ultimate suckup...
Originally posted by _ alliance _
why the hell are you even posting on this thread?
Someone was pulling the thread off topic by defending Bonds or some other player, can't remember, don't care to look. I asked them to keep the player flames out of the thread.
I don't think the 70+ OK bats gets him off the hook in any way. He wouldn't keep 10 corked bats because it would be too easy to get busted. Having one is 'safer' and makes you look less guilty.
I do think the home run #498 bat that was not corked works in his favor though.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
see, i understand this and i think it's a valid perspective. however, i think the same should be applied to big mac. the press loved him, but i dont think their adoration of him was warrented. maybe he was just the ultimate suckup...
didn't mcguire have a general disdain for the press? i mean before the record? and when it got crazy?
the problem that sportswriters have is that they know stuff that they can't write about, either because it's just not relevant (like a recent cub manager who liked 'em young) or it's semi relevent but reporting it would make them pariahs, (mark grace's absolute hatred of sosa. hundley drinking, farnsworths drinking etc.) and make it difficult to do there jobs.
the only thing people in the press love is a good story, and by that i mean something people just can't get enough of.
Originally posted by _ alliance _
see, i understand this and i think it's a valid perspective. however, i think the same should be applied to big mac. the press loved him, but i dont think their adoration of him was warrented. maybe he was just the ultimate suckup...
didn't mcguire have a general disdain for the press? i mean before the record? and when it got crazy?
the problem that sportswriters have is that they know stuff that they can't write about, either because it's just not relevant (like a recent cub manager who liked 'em young) or it's semi relevant but reporting it would make them pariahs, (mark grace's absolute hatred of sosa. hundley drinking, farnsworths drinking etc.) and make it difficult to do there jobs.
the only thing people in the press love is a good story, and by that i mean something people just can't get enough of.
Originally posted by Eugene
If MO VAUGHN could handle first base....
I know he was good when he was with Boston, but being a Mets fan I know for a fact MO VAUGHN CAN'T handle first!
There is a football ( winter ) & baseball (summer) stadium just a short distance away from where I live..Some summer nights ( played under lights ) you can hear the baseball crowds roaring their appproval over a strike out or home run..
But what I want to ask.. is what is the rule concerning the make up of a bat?
Somehow I got the impression that wood was out..?
they do use aluminum in college high school, and little leagues.
the bat:
rule 1.10
(a) The bat shall be a smooth, round stick not more than 2 3/4 inches in diameter at the thickest part and not more than 42 inches in length. The bat shall be one piece of solid wood. NOTE: No laminated or experimental bats shall be used in a professional game (either championship season or exhibition games) until the manufacturer has secured approval from the Rules Committee of his design and methods of manufacture. (b) Cupped Bats. An indentation in the end of the bat up to one inch in depth is permitted and may be no wider than two inches and no less than one inch in diameter. The indentation must be curved with no foreign substance added. (c) The bat handle, for not more than 18 inches from its end, may be covered or treated with any material or substance to improve the grip. Any such material or substance, which extends past the 18 inch limitation, shall cause the bat to be removed from the game. NOTE: If the umpire discovers that the bat does not conform to (c) above until a time during or after which the bat has been used in play, it shall not be grounds for declaring the batter out, or ejected from the game. (d) No colored bat may be used in a professional game unless approved by the Rules Committee.
why he was ejected and will be suspended:
rule 6.06.d
(d) He uses or attempts to use a bat that, in the umpire's judgment, has been altered or tampered with in such a way to improve the distance factor or cause an unusual reaction on the baseball. This includes, bats that are filled, flat surfaced, nailed, hollowed, grooved or covered with a substance such as paraffin, wax, etc. No advancement on the bases will be allowed and any out or outs made during a play shall stand. In addition to being called out, the player shall be ejected from the game and may be subject to additional penalties as determined by his League President.
Originally posted by Eugene
And Sosa's corked bat calls into question where he ranks on the list of best hitters in baseball.
No, it doesn't because corked bats don't help one damn bit.
Originally posted by BR
No, it doesn't because corked bats don't help one damn bit.
obviously sammy disagrees with you, he has one, to put on "shows" for the fans. (which according to the trib this morning, he's usually the first done with B.P. so not too many fans get to see his "show".) so he thinks it helps.
i know physics professors everywhere are weighing in with their opinions (on whether a corked bat aids to distance), but clearly sammy hasn't been swinging the bat real well since he was beaned and eight strikes outs in two games (some with the same bat) has his confidence shaken. and i think the cork was more for confidence than physics instructors.
and i don't think he was using it to hit the ball further i think he was using it to get around quicker. it's not illegal because it makes the ball go farther it's illegal because it artificially increases swing speeds.