Oh, and I don't think the iBook is going anywhere, either. We'll see Apple continue to push the price down a bit further, and bump the technology up. Imagine a laptop with a SuperDrive and a G4 for $999.
[B]Where's the statement from IBM that commits/guarantees the 970 will be cheaper than a G4?
I highly doubt it. /B]
Well, it won't be cheaper than the 1GHz and lower chips, which are plentiful. But the rarer 1.42GHz chips which are a special bin split that Mot produced especially for Apple? I would be VERY suprised if the 970 is not cheaper than them. The verification on those out of normal specs would be very costly and uncommon, two elements to drive up prices.
Quote:
It might be cheaper for IBM to make a 970 than it is for moto to make a G4, but that only means that it will be a highly profitable CPU for IBM itself to produce and sell. Given that Apple can't really turn to anyone else, and that the 970 would enter into the upper echelon of desktop CPU's, expect a comensurate price per part. 300mm wafers and .13u fab process are good for IBM, eventually they'll be good for Apple too, but I stress eventually, at least in terms of costs, in terms of performance a 970 would be good right now! I fully expect that MOST PPC 970 parts cost more than all but the top speed G4's and Apple wouldn't put those into an iMac/iBook anyway. With .13u G4's and SMC partnership, G4 yeilds will improve, and moto's prices will come down too.
Remember this about the 970. Much of the verification work on the process was completed with the Power 4+, which shares huge chunks of logic with the 970. The IBM .13 micron process has been running for months now producing Power 4+ CPU's. The little fab pixies have been using the process to successfully produce a much larger chip (the Power 4+) with far more rigourous production constraints successfully for many months now. Compared to the Power 4+, the 970 is a walk in the park for them. 1/2 the transistors, 1/4 the area, looser validation parameters and far more bin splits to mop up marginal chips. (i.e. if a Power 4+ chips doesn't validate at 1.3GHz, they don't do validations for lower speeds because they don't sell them. The chip is discarded. I would argue that if a 970 doesn't validate at 1.4GHz, there will be 1.2GHz and 1.0GHz bins for it to validate against that Apple could use in notebooks.)
This chip will be cheap to produce, and will be cheaper for Apple than the over 1.2GHz G4's.
I don't think so, IBM knows what they can get for it and exactly who needs and how badly. Eventually cheaper? yes, but not for the first two quarters I reckon.
Only the very fastest G4's are expensive (1.25-1.42) the rest are about 75-125, IBM will not beat those prices for a while. With .13u 7457 (which is ready) chips in the 1-1.5Ghz range will drop to the bottom end of the G4 pric range and 1.6-2Ghz will be in the expensive range. I don't expect Apple to use those, but the other G4's will be ther in the consumer line, and probably in the PB's for a little while too.
Looking at the performance numbers IBM is talking about, and the pricing structures of x86 and PPC, I'd be very surprised if IBM sold any single model of PPC970 to Apple for less than 200-250 at the low end.
Looking at the performance numbers IBM is talking about, and the pricing structures of x86 and PPC, I'd be very surprised if IBM sold any single model of PPC970 to Apple for less than 200-250 at the low end.
Then Apple would likely stick with G4 for certain product categories. Certainly helps Apple differentiate their lines over 970-only.
No, I think IBM will get this out at a reasonably low price just to get it out there in force and Apple will commit to higher volume for the same reason. Nobody is going to do loss-leader here, but now that we've got the OS and (hopefuly) the performance, let's not lose the war over a few dollars gained in the early battle.
IBM wouldn't be doing the 970 if it wasn't a big-picture play, and I don't think they'll blow it over small-picture issues.
I don't think so, IBM knows what they can get for it and exactly who needs and how badly. Eventually cheaper? yes, but not for the first two quarters I reckon.
Only the very fastest G4's are expensive (1.25-1.42) the rest are about 75-125, IBM will not beat those prices for a while.
i would take a 1.5 Ghz G4 iBook....i think some others here might too
calling mr cates, we have a thread for you to reply in
g
Yes, hands down. As many here know, I'm MUCH more into the iGear (as opposed to the pro stuff), so if I could get a nice G4-powered iBook that is 200-400MHz faster than my current 800MHz LCD iMac (AND for $500-800 less than a PowerBook), I'd be all over it like a monkey on a hash brown.
It's actually all I've ever really asked for (check the archives!).
It's not like I'm pushing the limit on anything I do, but I do use OS X full-time and I do use iTunes, iPhoto and stuff like that. But I also don't quite fall into the "970 or nothing at all!" camp, so yeah...a 1-1.2GHz G4 iBook with AirPort Extreme, 60GB hard drive, iMac-level graphics (32MB) and MAYBE a SuperDrive would be a dream come true, to be honest.
The 14" widescreen thing is negotiable. Would be NICE...but it's not a deal-killer.
I'd max out the RAM, buy a snazzy case and retire from these boards. Or completely take them over. One of the two...
how much speed does one need, the much touted "wintel tablets" are like 1.3g and the battery life isn't up to the ibook level, why can't apple say ah ha we are parity as to speed, and salespeople keep talking speed but lets face it 90% don't need more than 1.0-1.5 but need ram and "goodies" wireless, outputs, screen res, faster superdrive etc. I'd get the 970 laptop only so i won't have to upgrade in 2 years. Apple should be celebrating, and exploiting this and maximize this info---take advantage of this, people are listening since 25% return wintel unit for "nonusability" from i think USA today
Those prices seem well off to me. Moto documents put the first SOI parts cheaper than that, way back when 1Ghz was the top end. Now that 1.42 is the top end, I expect 1Ghz parts are much much cheaper than that in 10K quantities. Not those parts aren't from moto, but from a dealer putting a nice mark-up on them.
As long as iBooks can get cheaper and PowerBooks get stronger....that is the recipe for the future of the two lines...and yeah a 14" wide iBook might make me forget about the 12" PB....well, not quite.
I received a phone call from a guy at the Apple store today. He started out by telling me that I was a preferred customer with a standing line of credit and that I had received a coupon for $25 off of any purchase at the Apple Store. I told him my next purchase would most likely be an iBook and that I was waiting for the rumored Gobi version of the G3 before I'd be making any purchases. His reply was; "Well, I think you'll be really happy by the end of the month (I'm unsure if he said this month or next month). So, I assume that we may be seeing an update to the G3 soon. I thought that I'd share this with you guys. I'm also hoping for an end to the 640MB limit on RAM, and an update to USB 2.0 on this new revision. Hopefully we will also see a price reduction (I can always hope can't I?).
Yes. And these things are built like tanks, almost like the PoweBook 12". Apple hardware is becoming of almost Nintendo-quality strength, though not yet industructible like a Nintendo! My sister spilled a literal gallon of milk into our N64 and it works 100% fine. For a while the third controller needed to be plugged in and out a few times to make it work but now it's ok. That is quality. Not that I don't baby my Apple but I hate "delicate" electronics.
Anybody minds price reduction? And a small speed bump? Raise your hands. So? Nobody? Make a sticker saying 'iBook not dead', stick it onto the screen and read it aloud five times a minute, taking a deep breath in between.
Comments
Oh, and I don't think the iBook is going anywhere, either. We'll see Apple continue to push the price down a bit further, and bump the technology up. Imagine a laptop with a SuperDrive and a G4 for $999.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Matsu
[B]Where's the statement from IBM that commits/guarantees the 970 will be cheaper than a G4?
I highly doubt it. /B]
Well, it won't be cheaper than the 1GHz and lower chips, which are plentiful. But the rarer 1.42GHz chips which are a special bin split that Mot produced especially for Apple? I would be VERY suprised if the 970 is not cheaper than them. The verification on those out of normal specs would be very costly and uncommon, two elements to drive up prices.
It might be cheaper for IBM to make a 970 than it is for moto to make a G4, but that only means that it will be a highly profitable CPU for IBM itself to produce and sell. Given that Apple can't really turn to anyone else, and that the 970 would enter into the upper echelon of desktop CPU's, expect a comensurate price per part. 300mm wafers and .13u fab process are good for IBM, eventually they'll be good for Apple too, but I stress eventually, at least in terms of costs, in terms of performance a 970 would be good right now! I fully expect that MOST PPC 970 parts cost more than all but the top speed G4's and Apple wouldn't put those into an iMac/iBook anyway. With .13u G4's and SMC partnership, G4 yeilds will improve, and moto's prices will come down too.
Remember this about the 970. Much of the verification work on the process was completed with the Power 4+, which shares huge chunks of logic with the 970. The IBM .13 micron process has been running for months now producing Power 4+ CPU's. The little fab pixies have been using the process to successfully produce a much larger chip (the Power 4+) with far more rigourous production constraints successfully for many months now. Compared to the Power 4+, the 970 is a walk in the park for them. 1/2 the transistors, 1/4 the area, looser validation parameters and far more bin splits to mop up marginal chips. (i.e. if a Power 4+ chips doesn't validate at 1.3GHz, they don't do validations for lower speeds because they don't sell them. The chip is discarded. I would argue that if a 970 doesn't validate at 1.4GHz, there will be 1.2GHz and 1.0GHz bins for it to validate against that Apple could use in notebooks.)
This chip will be cheap to produce, and will be cheaper for Apple than the over 1.2GHz G4's.
Only the very fastest G4's are expensive (1.25-1.42) the rest are about 75-125, IBM will not beat those prices for a while. With .13u 7457 (which is ready) chips in the 1-1.5Ghz range will drop to the bottom end of the G4 pric range and 1.6-2Ghz will be in the expensive range. I don't expect Apple to use those, but the other G4's will be ther in the consumer line, and probably in the PB's for a little while too.
With .13u 7457 (which is ready) chips in the 1-1.5Ghz range will drop to the bottom end of the G4 pric range
i would take a 1.5 Ghz G4 iBook....i think some others here might too
calling mr cates, we have a thread for you to reply in
g
Originally posted by Matsu
Looking at the performance numbers IBM is talking about, and the pricing structures of x86 and PPC, I'd be very surprised if IBM sold any single model of PPC970 to Apple for less than 200-250 at the low end.
Then Apple would likely stick with G4 for certain product categories. Certainly helps Apple differentiate their lines over 970-only.
No, I think IBM will get this out at a reasonably low price just to get it out there in force and Apple will commit to higher volume for the same reason. Nobody is going to do loss-leader here, but now that we've got the OS and (hopefuly) the performance, let's not lose the war over a few dollars gained in the early battle.
IBM wouldn't be doing the 970 if it wasn't a big-picture play, and I don't think they'll blow it over small-picture issues.
That's good business sense.
Originally posted by Matsu
I don't think so, IBM knows what they can get for it and exactly who needs and how badly. Eventually cheaper? yes, but not for the first two quarters I reckon.
Only the very fastest G4's are expensive (1.25-1.42) the rest are about 75-125, IBM will not beat those prices for a while.
http://www.arrow.com:80/aws/pg_webc/...&start_index=0
Originally posted by thegelding
i would take a 1.5 Ghz G4 iBook....i think some others here might too
calling mr cates, we have a thread for you to reply in
g
Yes, hands down. As many here know, I'm MUCH more into the iGear (as opposed to the pro stuff), so if I could get a nice G4-powered iBook that is 200-400MHz faster than my current 800MHz LCD iMac (AND for $500-800 less than a PowerBook), I'd be all over it like a monkey on a hash brown.
It's actually all I've ever really asked for (check the archives!).
It's not like I'm pushing the limit on anything I do, but I do use OS X full-time and I do use iTunes, iPhoto and stuff like that. But I also don't quite fall into the "970 or nothing at all!" camp, so yeah...a 1-1.2GHz G4 iBook with AirPort Extreme, 60GB hard drive, iMac-level graphics (32MB) and MAYBE a SuperDrive would be a dream come true, to be honest.
The 14" widescreen thing is negotiable. Would be NICE...but it's not a deal-killer.
I'd max out the RAM, buy a snazzy case and retire from these boards. Or completely take them over. One of the two...
All I know is if Apple produced the widescreen iBook that you drew, I would by one in a heartbeat and retire from these boards too!
Larry