Democratic Presidential Primary, Round Two

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Well, since the last poll here, Howard Dean has leapt into the top three in scientific polls.



http://www.tribnet.com/24hour/politi...-6348412c.html



http://deancalltoaction.blogspot.com...html#200391113



However, all is not good news for Howard Dean. He's lost my vote. Why? I have some serious issues with what he said in this Q&A on the environment. That and his conservative stance on gun control has pushed me away from him.



He drives an SUV and didn't know what a worm bin was. I will not support someone who drives an SUV (and makes silly excuses for that) and who doesn't know what a worm bin is. SUVs are a menace to the environment and others on the road, hybrid or not. Hundreds of lives would be saved if SUVs sales were severely restricted. SUVs are unsafe compared to mid-to-large sedans and are far more lethal to other cars in accidents.



Kerry now has my support, but I wish Al Gore would run. IMHO, Al Gore is superior to everyone who is currently running.



I've narrowed the field to six candidates that I feel are making a genuine effort to win and not running for other reasons. Al Sharpton is running to mobilize minority voters and draw attention to certain issues while Moseley-Braun is running to make sure Al Sharpton doesn't win.



Any of six I've listed will beat Bush. It's only a matter to pick the best one. There is no doubt in my mine of that fact.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 41
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    I'm still voting for Lieberman, but my spidey sense tells me Kerry will get the nomination. He'll be a decent candidate.
  • Reply 2 of 41
    existenceexistence Posts: 991member
    Here's an hour-long stream of a pinic yesterday in Iowa featuring many of the Democratic candidates.



    http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/hdrive/rwh060803.rm



    There's an interesting tidbit involving Bob Graham and The War(tm) 18 to 19 minutes into the stream.
  • Reply 3 of 41
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    I'm still voting for Lieberman, but my spidey sense tells me Kerry will get the nomination. He'll be a decent candidate.



    Personally, Lieberman would be the worst choice for the party. He is too strongly pro-Isreal, he is religiously (and hence mostly socially) conservative. He is a Republican for the most part...
  • Reply 4 of 41
    existenceexistence Posts: 991member
    http://pcdean.org/



    Fellowship?
  • Reply 5 of 41
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by billybobsky

    Personally, Lieberman would be the worst choice for the party. He is too strongly pro-Isreal, he is religiously (and hence mostly socially) conservative. He is a Republican for the most part...



    Yeah, well Existence didn't have an option for Sharpton, so Lieberman was my second choice.



    [edit]The New Republic is running a sort of primary of their own to evaluate the candidates. It's pretty good, with the usual New Republic-ish take on things. And it's one of the few things that you don't actually have to pay for anymore on their site.
  • Reply 6 of 41
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    Yeah, well Existence didn't have an option for Sharpton, so Lieberman was my second choice.









    I voted Dean. He probably doesn´t stand a chance against Bush but sometimes you have to lose an election to mark that there is a difference in politics. The race towards the middle may earn you votes but it kills democracy.



    I like this bit from Dean:



    Quote:

    "I think it's less productive to worry about how much rich people have than to worry about how much middle-class and working people have ... Rather than attacking executive salaries, which I do agree are a real problem, I want to build a middle-class safety net, so that people in the middle class in this country can be sure they'll have health insurance, can be sure they'll have opportunities for their kids to go to college."



  • Reply 7 of 41
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    A worm bin? He isn't good enough to be president because he is ignorant of worm bins?



    Sheesh. Some people's priorities. You'd think that would be correctable.
  • Reply 8 of 41
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders





    I voted Dean. He probably doesn´t stand a chance against Bush but sometimes you have to lose an election to mark that there is a difference in politics. The race towards the middle may earn you votes but it kills democracy.



    I like this bit from Dean:






    "kills democracy"? That's just about the dumbest thing I think I've ever read from you.
  • Reply 9 of 41
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence



    Kerry now has my support, but I wish Al Gore would run. IMHO, Al Gore is superior to everyone who is currently running.




    HAHAHA... Besides, Al Gore already won the presidency once and found the perks weren't that good.
  • Reply 10 of 41
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Al Gore would be the 3rd or 4th strongest candidate out of those guys, MAYBE. He was weak, if you can't admit that now you have problem. He sucked, hard.



    I voted Dean because I'll most likely vote for Dean. I wouldn't like to see Bush's foreign policy leave office but I can live with that if we've got a semi-real liberal actually working in government at such a high level.



    I like Dean. If he develops a stronger commitment to secure America's international dominance militarily and economically he'll have my vote sealed up.
  • Reply 11 of 41
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    "kills democracy"? That's just about the dumbest thing I think I've ever read from you.



    Thanks. That means I must be writing stellar stuff



    One thing I think is great about american politics is the diversity allowed. Dean is again and again using parts of european social systems as something to strive towards. If a danish politican did the same and said "Hey look at USA. Lets use their educational/social/healt care/prison system" he would not be taken seriously. Now I don´t want any of those systems here but diversity in political argumentation is importent to keep democracy alive.



    That is what makes the in two party system so sad. Look at the last presidential race. "Passionate conservative" on one side and "Democate with etics" on the other. If we took the rhetoric serious there were no choice.



    How low voting percent does it take before you would consider democracy in danger? Under 65% and we would find it a huge problem and look for anomy in our society. How long time since the voting percent was so high in USA?
  • Reply 12 of 41
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    "kills democracy"? That's just about the dumbest thing I think I've ever read from you.



    You have to admit that having one option (ie the center) is undemocratic in a political system. G Washington warned of such a thing...
  • Reply 13 of 41
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    The two-party dominance is a double-edged sword. It isn't just bad.



    There is a reason the US is the dominant world power, and that is not unrelated to the political stability provided by a somewhat homogenous government.



    We don't go through major upheavals in government so we don't suffer because of them.



    So when I see a guy like Dean who isn't just contrarian (note stance on guns) I am very pleased.



    Stability is important, those from a continent responsible for the two worst wars of modern times should realize this.
  • Reply 14 of 41
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    So you like Dean compared to the other democrats?
  • Reply 15 of 41
    existenceexistence Posts: 991member
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...man-usat_x.htm



    Lieberman will have a hard time.



    Quote:

    But now some Jewish Democrats are ambivalent about a man who is more religious and more conservative than most of them...



    And



    Quote:

    Lieberman's pollster, Mark Penn, says Lieberman has a 93% approval rating among Jews. But only about half that percentage pick him when asked whom they'd vote for in a Democratic primary.



  • Reply 16 of 41
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Anders:



    Quote:

    So you like Dean compared to the other democrats?



    Absolutely. As a rule I abhor Democrats because they're either too Republican (see: Al Gore and Lieberman) or they are pricks (see: the Kennedy family, Kucinich).



    Dean seems like a smart guy who uses his own mind to make decisions and doesn't tow the party line.
  • Reply 17 of 41
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    Anders:







    Absolutely. As a rule I abhor Democrats because they're either too Republican (see: Al Gore and Lieberman) or they are pricks (see: the Kennedy family, Kucinich).



    Dean seems like a smart guy who uses his own mind to make decisions and doesn't tow the party line.








    A first. I have disagreed with EVERYTHING you have stated in the past regarding everything from politics to music.
  • Reply 18 of 41
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence

    Well, since the last poll here, Howard Dean has leapt into the top three in scientific polls.



    http://www.tribnet.com/24hour/politi...-6348412c.html



    http://deancalltoaction.blogspot.com...html#200391113



    However, all is not good news for Howard Dean. He's lost my vote. Why? I have some serious issues with what he said in this Q&A on the environment. That and his conservative stance on gun control has pushed me away from him.



    He drives an SUV and didn't know what a worm bin was. I will not support someone who drives an SUV (and makes silly excuses for that) and who doesn't know what a worm bin is. SUVs are a menace to the environment and others on the road, hybrid or not. Hundreds of lives would be saved if SUVs sales were severely restricted. SUVs are unsafe compared to mid-to-large sedans and are far more lethal to other cars in accidents.



    Kerry now has my support, but I wish Al Gore would run. IMHO, Al Gore is superior to everyone who is currently running.



    I've narrowed the field to six candidates that I feel are making a genuine effort to win and not running for other reasons. Al Sharpton is running to mobilize minority voters and draw attention to certain issues while Moseley-Braun is running to make sure Al Sharpton doesn't win.



    Any of six I've listed will beat Bush. It's only a matter to pick the best one. There is no doubt in my mine of that fact.




    Isn't it a little presumptuous to assume Republicans will have no say in who is president as your poll suggests?



    Likewise your reasons for NOT supporting Dean shows exactly why Bush will likely landslide.



    I wonder which portion of the voting is larger. Those who hate SUV's and love worm bins, or those who are indifferent to both or love SUV's?



    Nick
  • Reply 19 of 41
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    Isn't it a little presumptuous to assume Republicans will have no say in who is president as your poll suggests?



    Likewise your reasons for NOT supporting Dean shows exactly why Bush will likely landslide.



    I wonder which portion of the voting is larger. Those who hate SUV's and love worm bins, or those who are indifferent to both or love SUV's?



    Nick




    Would any of us grovel at Bush's feet?
  • Reply 20 of 41
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Anders





    I voted Dean. He probably doesn´t stand a chance against Bush but sometimes you have to lose an election to mark that there is a difference in politics. The race towards the middle may earn you votes but it kills democracy.




    Yeah, I've noticed that you don't like Lieberman. You've mentioned it several times.



    Dean has become the rising star, mostly because he's the one dark horse with a shot, and he's really the only serious candidate who has been strongly anti-war. But he is also quite pro gun, which is about as close to a deal-breaker as you can get with me.



    And I don't think Lieberman is as "conservative" as people suggest. I like him because 1. he has an interesting story being an orthodox Jew with a shot at the presidency, 2. he was Gore's running mate in the election fiasco of 2000 and so I think benefits from remaining hard feelings about that, and 3. I think he makes the perfect foil to Bush - he neutralizes Bush's primary perceived strengths (anti-terrorism) but beats him on other issues.



    I don't like the overt religiosity, but let's face it, religion is a huge part of American politics, like it or not. Clinton and Gore were self-professed born again Christians. There's just no way to get away from it, as much as I would like. And in general, it's the toxic combination of Christianity and right-wing ideology that's the real turn off to me, neither of which apply to Lieberman.
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...man-usat_x.htm



    Lieberman will have a hard time.




    Huh? Self-loathing Jews? That's a shocker!
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