But you must realize most new Mac buyers are PC people. They know how to use a mouse. They really can handle two buttons and a scroll, their skull really won't implode without a 1 button mouse. And for a new computer user it is not that much harder to learn anyway.
you guys don't get it... Apple has a 1 button mouse standard to force developers to think NOT because they think the average user is retarded...
with that said they should put 2 buttons on the laptops and leave one button on the desktops...
Paul why would you want developers to think in terms of a one-button mouse? ALL Mac systems should come with multi-button mice. Contextual menus are a good interface, if used correctly (make sure it's still WYSIWYG so you don't have to click around like Winblows)
G-dog that was an awesome post. I agree. Perhaps it could charge through a variety of methods. Your idea is so good it makes me cry to think what Apple could do with the mouse. The Pro Mouse just sucks.
It is optical, so it has the neat red laser thingamagig.
It is not a laser. It is a Light Emitting Diode, A.K.A. an LED.
Do not confuse laser light with normal, scattering light. With a laser, the beam is focused and if you move the light further away from a target, the spot will not get bigger (actually it does, but not enough for your eye to be able to tell the difference.) With light sources that scatter photons everywhere (like your standard light bulb, LED, CRT or LCD) the spot will grow as the light source gets further away from the target.
You guys saw that the German retailer who opened the new Apple boxes that contain the 970 claims that the mouse is 2 button optical with a Scroll Wheel. Lets hope that they are right!
Also they claim the specs on the 2 machines they have are
2ghz
and 2.4ghz wouldn't that be a real treat from Apple!
Paul why would you want developers to think in terms of a one-button mouse?
I'm not Paul, but I agree with what he said so I'd like to take a stab at your question. The reason Apple would want developers to think in terms of a one-button mouse is to assure that they develop their software so it can be used with simply a mouse and a single button - that in fact is a very good reason to continue shipping one-button mice. The very fact that Mac software can be used with just one button will inherently make the Mac "easier" to use, because it will force developers to assure all functions of their software can be accessed visually, on screen, and that the users can browse through the buttons, widgets, and menus on screen to find features. This basically guarantees that if the user stares at their screen long enough, they'll figure out how to do whatever it is they are trying to do.
That is not to say that I am in favor of a one button mouse. By no means would I choose to use a one button mouse - my right mouse button and scroll wheel are heavily used. However, it is to everyone's benefit that there is more than one way to do the same function within an application. So long as Apple sticks with a one-button mouse, developers will be very unlikely to hide required functions within a contextual menu only, as you see in the Windows world. There are many functions in Windows which can be accessed only through a contextual menu, and that's just not cool.
I have to say I totally agree with Inkhead's post a while ago. It's time for Macs to ship with two button scroll mice. I think contextual menus are a good tool, as long as they're consistent. Eudora, for example, has the worst contextual menus I've ever used. Right click anywhere, on anything, and you get a menu with a single grayed out item, labeled "Help." Mail, though, as well as some web browsers, have excellent contextual menus. The thing is, contextual menus allow you to see what you can do to a certain object without having to a) figure out how to select the object and b) hunt around various menus in the menubar to find the function you're looking for. In Mail, this is very useful. If I want to move a message to a certain mailbox, I can just right click and look for the function, rather than selecting the message and trying to find which menu that particular function is in.
For those who argue that multi-button mice are no good unless you know what all the buttons do... come on. That hasn't been a valid argument for a really long time. How many people don't know what right-clicking is? How many people don't know what a scroll wheel does? They're pretty straightforward controls, and if you don't know how to use them right away, they should become somewhat apparent after a few minutes of use. Now I agree that a ten button mouse, like Chucker said, wouldn't be very useful because it would be clumsy, but we're not talking about ten buttons. The most buttons any mouse I know of has eight (counting scroll-click), on the Logitech MX500/700. If you program them yourself, I don't see why it would be a problem. But, if it's the type of person who can't figure that sort of thing out anyway, then I doubt they'd be buying a third-party mouse in the first place.
Heh, I don't know how many times I've had PC-using friends ask me if Macs can use two button mice, or why Macs can't use them. I just tell them that the Mac OS fully supports multiple buttons without any additional software. I think it would help Apple's image for PC users if they provided two button scroll mice.
Mac applications have always been known for easy-of-use and being well designed and polished. Shipping a two button mouse shouldn't change that. There will always be crappy developers for all platforms. But the good ones will have better apps and innovative uses for the second button, even the kinda uses that the windows world hasn't adopted.
Mac applications won't all go to hell just because apple ships with a two button mouse. Most mac applications as of now write extra code to support functions for people who use the second button. aside from the basic control click.
The moral is this:
Anybody who knows anything about computers ends up buying a two button mouse anyway for their mac. The only people I actually know that use a 1 button mouse are people who don't know that it's easy to switch to a different mouse, or are afraid to try something different and have had one button forever.
I've never met a person who I didn't switch to a two button mouse ask for their one button mouse back.
PC users are expected to use a two button mouse, after all you can just click the one button on the left and never use the second. I don't think mac users should be insulted and forced out of the box to use a one button mouse.
If apple had a page in the order form that said "Choose Your Mouse: 1 button mouse, or 2 button mouse with scroll wheel" and it had pictures the one button mouse would hardly ever sell. The point is apple needs to offer the mainstream solution as the primary mouse. The small group of people that prefer one button can just order it instead of a "default" two button mouse.
Then people wouldn't walk over and go, "Hey, that mac it's cool. Oh what's with the crippled mouse? Where did the buttons go? Is that a mouse or a giant suppository?"
And you can't tell me Apple doesn't think about it. I've been to their headquarters, I've seen the offices and MOST Apple employees DO NOT use the Apple mouse, rather they have a two button mouse or trackball on their desk.
There have always been rumors about Apple switching, my guess is they were just holding out for the next radical system change to introduce it.
What is the point in offering a multi-button mouse anyway? They are widely availabale already from 3rd parties and work just fine. I'd rather just see Apple spend time and money focusing on things that really matter.
By the way: I have a 5 button scrollwheel trackball optical mouse and an Apple Pro mouse, and I find both to be quite useful. I'd prefer others not generalize those who use the one buttons as the fearful or the uninformed, as this is simply not the case.
One point many seem not to be addressing is that one of the main reasons the one button mouse is still in play is because of the ease of use provided by the keyboard shortcuts. These shortcuts are used less on PCs because of the multi-button mouse. And once you're knowledgable as to what the keyboard shortcuts are, they are much faster than multiple mouse clicks.
What is the point in offering a multi-button mouse anyway? They are widely availabale already from 3rd parties and work just fine. I'd rather just see Apple spend time and money focusing on things that really matter.
By the way: I have a 5 button scrollwheel trackball optical mouse and an Apple Pro mouse, and I find both to be quite useful. I'd prefer others not generalize those who use the one buttons as the fearful or the uninformed, as this is simply not the case.
One point many seem not to be addressing is that one of the main reasons the one button mouse is still in play is because of the ease of use provided by the keyboard shortcuts. These shortcuts are used less on PCs because of the multi-button mouse. And once you're knowledgable as to what the keyboard shortcuts are, they are much faster than multiple mouse clicks.
Because Apple shouldn't cripple people out of the box.
Why should Apple ship with a nVidia high end video card when they could just as easily ship with a old Rage 128? You can buy an nVidia at the store...
You do this things because I shouldn't have to buy a two button mouse. If i want a one button mouse I SHOULD have to special ORDER that. I'd prefer that Apple stopped assuming we are all Apes that need a big button.
I'd prefer that Apple stopped assuming we are all Apes that need a big button.
Yeah but the big button looks cool doesn't it? I think Apple have always made mice that look good, but perhaps aren't as practical as other offerings from Apple. Now I never owned one so disagree with me if you so choose, but what about the 'puck' mouse that came with the old iMacs.
I think that multi-button scroll mice are great but Apple have traditionally never made them.
It'd be great to see what Johnathan Ives could make of that kind of mouse design, but if they're going to do it I think it'll be wireless, becuase that would be cool and as we know Apple always make cool products.
Of course I agree that a single button mouse with a cord should be kept on as an option for education users, a wireless mouse in a school environment would be a nightmare.
In Mail, this is very useful. If I want to move a message to a certain mailbox, I can just right click and look for the function, rather than selecting the message and trying to find which menu that particular function is in.
or you could just use the 1 button to DRAG the message wherever you want...
the point is this if 2 buttons were standard then more and more applications would begin to rely on contextual menus... that is not a good thing...
with that said there IS a single mouse button "stigma" with macs and I have had to explain this to a lot of people that macs can use multibutton mice... but if they think that they cant they wouldn't even think about getting a mac in the first place...
the problem is that crappy windows interfaces has caused a good percetage of the computer-using population into relying on the 2nd button and contextual menus which eventhough it may be a time saver is in the long run NOT a good thing because less time is spent on designing an interface that does not need to use a contextual menu for any reason... it makes things more complex and NOT simple no matter how you look at it... (unless of course you consider right-clicking on various parts of an interface looking for a particular function is a good thing--because it is not... and admit it, you have done this before in poorly designed programs)
Yeah but the big button looks cool doesn't it? I think Apple have always made mice that look good, but perhaps aren't as practical as other offerings from Apple. Now I never owned one so disagree with me if you so choose, but what about the 'puck' mouse that came with the old iMacs.
I think that multi-button scroll mice are great but Apple have traditionally never made them.
It'd be great to see what Johnathan Ives could make of that kind of mouse design, but if they're going to do it I think it'll be wireless, becuase that would be cool and as we know Apple always make cool products.
Of course I agree that a single button mouse with a cord should be kept on as an option for education users, a wireless mouse in a school environment would be a nightmare.
That's horrible. You mean to tell me we can blast 7 people into space, around the moon and Apple couldn't make a beautiful 2 button mouse with scroll wheel? Have a little faith man!
That's horrible. You mean to tell me we can blast 7 people into space, around the moon and Apple couldn't make a beautiful 2 button mouse with scroll wheel? Have a little faith man!
I wasn't saying they'll never do it, if they do today or in the near future i'll definately be getting one.
I think that the options are limited. Apple won't make a mouse that you have to put new batteries in (or they might) so they need some other ingenious way of powering the mouse. I myself prefer the kinetic method, that'd be really cool.
This would SUCK when using iSync to sync with my phone over bluetooth coz the mouse would drop out.
Not sure who wrote that... but more than one bluetooth device can talk with computer at one time. The computer acts as a BT wireless hub, similar to airport base station. That is why BT gives something similar to a MAC address to every device it "sees" on the BT network (printer, mouse, keyboard, cell phone, pda, etc). Think about it, how could you have a BT mouse and keyboard, and use both at the same time (according to your statement) ?
Comments
multi button mouse for powermacs
little america flags for some, signed autographed bjork posters for others.
It charges through USB when connected.
This would solve the education wants cords but otherwise we want wireless.
It could also use heat to charge itself as said before.
Here is a little article on it: Thermal Power
Originally posted by Aquatic
But you must realize most new Mac buyers are PC people. They know how to use a mouse. They really can handle two buttons and a scroll, their skull really won't implode without a 1 button mouse. And for a new computer user it is not that much harder to learn anyway.
you guys don't get it... Apple has a 1 button mouse standard to force developers to think NOT because they think the average user is retarded...
with that said they should put 2 buttons on the laptops and leave one button on the desktops...
G-dog that was an awesome post. I agree. Perhaps it could charge through a variety of methods. Your idea is so good it makes me cry to think what Apple could do with the mouse. The Pro Mouse just sucks.
Originally posted by iplead5th
It is optical, so it has the neat red laser thingamagig.
It is not a laser. It is a Light Emitting Diode, A.K.A. an LED.
Do not confuse laser light with normal, scattering light. With a laser, the beam is focused and if you move the light further away from a target, the spot will not get bigger (actually it does, but not enough for your eye to be able to tell the difference.) With light sources that scatter photons everywhere (like your standard light bulb, LED, CRT or LCD) the spot will grow as the light source gets further away from the target.
Also they claim the specs on the 2 machines they have are
2ghz
and 2.4ghz wouldn't that be a real treat from Apple!
Originally posted by Aquatic
Paul why would you want developers to think in terms of a one-button mouse?
I'm not Paul, but I agree with what he said so I'd like to take a stab at your question. The reason Apple would want developers to think in terms of a one-button mouse is to assure that they develop their software so it can be used with simply a mouse and a single button - that in fact is a very good reason to continue shipping one-button mice. The very fact that Mac software can be used with just one button will inherently make the Mac "easier" to use, because it will force developers to assure all functions of their software can be accessed visually, on screen, and that the users can browse through the buttons, widgets, and menus on screen to find features. This basically guarantees that if the user stares at their screen long enough, they'll figure out how to do whatever it is they are trying to do.
That is not to say that I am in favor of a one button mouse. By no means would I choose to use a one button mouse - my right mouse button and scroll wheel are heavily used. However, it is to everyone's benefit that there is more than one way to do the same function within an application. So long as Apple sticks with a one-button mouse, developers will be very unlikely to hide required functions within a contextual menu only, as you see in the Windows world. There are many functions in Windows which can be accessed only through a contextual menu, and that's just not cool.
For those who argue that multi-button mice are no good unless you know what all the buttons do... come on. That hasn't been a valid argument for a really long time. How many people don't know what right-clicking is? How many people don't know what a scroll wheel does? They're pretty straightforward controls, and if you don't know how to use them right away, they should become somewhat apparent after a few minutes of use. Now I agree that a ten button mouse, like Chucker said, wouldn't be very useful because it would be clumsy, but we're not talking about ten buttons. The most buttons any mouse I know of has eight (counting scroll-click), on the Logitech MX500/700. If you program them yourself, I don't see why it would be a problem. But, if it's the type of person who can't figure that sort of thing out anyway, then I doubt they'd be buying a third-party mouse in the first place.
Heh, I don't know how many times I've had PC-using friends ask me if Macs can use two button mice, or why Macs can't use them. I just tell them that the Mac OS fully supports multiple buttons without any additional software. I think it would help Apple's image for PC users if they provided two button scroll mice.
Mac applications won't all go to hell just because apple ships with a two button mouse. Most mac applications as of now write extra code to support functions for people who use the second button. aside from the basic control click.
The moral is this:
Anybody who knows anything about computers ends up buying a two button mouse anyway for their mac. The only people I actually know that use a 1 button mouse are people who don't know that it's easy to switch to a different mouse, or are afraid to try something different and have had one button forever.
I've never met a person who I didn't switch to a two button mouse ask for their one button mouse back.
PC users are expected to use a two button mouse, after all you can just click the one button on the left and never use the second. I don't think mac users should be insulted and forced out of the box to use a one button mouse.
If apple had a page in the order form that said "Choose Your Mouse: 1 button mouse, or 2 button mouse with scroll wheel" and it had pictures the one button mouse would hardly ever sell. The point is apple needs to offer the mainstream solution as the primary mouse. The small group of people that prefer one button can just order it instead of a "default" two button mouse.
Then people wouldn't walk over and go, "Hey, that mac it's cool. Oh what's with the crippled mouse? Where did the buttons go? Is that a mouse or a giant suppository?"
And you can't tell me Apple doesn't think about it. I've been to their headquarters, I've seen the offices and MOST Apple employees DO NOT use the Apple mouse, rather they have a two button mouse or trackball on their desk.
There have always been rumors about Apple switching, my guess is they were just holding out for the next radical system change to introduce it.
I put $50 on a new two button apple mouse at WWDC
By the way: I have a 5 button scrollwheel trackball optical mouse and an Apple Pro mouse, and I find both to be quite useful. I'd prefer others not generalize those who use the one buttons as the fearful or the uninformed, as this is simply not the case.
One point many seem not to be addressing is that one of the main reasons the one button mouse is still in play is because of the ease of use provided by the keyboard shortcuts. These shortcuts are used less on PCs because of the multi-button mouse. And once you're knowledgable as to what the keyboard shortcuts are, they are much faster than multiple mouse clicks.
Originally posted by rageous
What is the point in offering a multi-button mouse anyway? They are widely availabale already from 3rd parties and work just fine. I'd rather just see Apple spend time and money focusing on things that really matter.
By the way: I have a 5 button scrollwheel trackball optical mouse and an Apple Pro mouse, and I find both to be quite useful. I'd prefer others not generalize those who use the one buttons as the fearful or the uninformed, as this is simply not the case.
One point many seem not to be addressing is that one of the main reasons the one button mouse is still in play is because of the ease of use provided by the keyboard shortcuts. These shortcuts are used less on PCs because of the multi-button mouse. And once you're knowledgable as to what the keyboard shortcuts are, they are much faster than multiple mouse clicks.
Because Apple shouldn't cripple people out of the box.
Why should Apple ship with a nVidia high end video card when they could just as easily ship with a old Rage 128? You can buy an nVidia at the store...
You do this things because I shouldn't have to buy a two button mouse. If i want a one button mouse I SHOULD have to special ORDER that. I'd prefer that Apple stopped assuming we are all Apes that need a big button.
Originally posted by webmail
I'd prefer that Apple stopped assuming we are all Apes that need a big button.
Yeah but the big button looks cool doesn't it? I think Apple have always made mice that look good, but perhaps aren't as practical as other offerings from Apple. Now I never owned one so disagree with me if you so choose, but what about the 'puck' mouse that came with the old iMacs.
I think that multi-button scroll mice are great but Apple have traditionally never made them.
It'd be great to see what Johnathan Ives could make of that kind of mouse design, but if they're going to do it I think it'll be wireless, becuase that would be cool and as we know Apple always make cool products.
Of course I agree that a single button mouse with a cord should be kept on as an option for education users, a wireless mouse in a school environment would be a nightmare.
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno
In Mail, this is very useful. If I want to move a message to a certain mailbox, I can just right click and look for the function, rather than selecting the message and trying to find which menu that particular function is in.
or you could just use the 1 button to DRAG the message wherever you want...
the point is this if 2 buttons were standard then more and more applications would begin to rely on contextual menus... that is not a good thing...
with that said there IS a single mouse button "stigma" with macs and I have had to explain this to a lot of people that macs can use multibutton mice... but if they think that they cant they wouldn't even think about getting a mac in the first place...
the problem is that crappy windows interfaces has caused a good percetage of the computer-using population into relying on the 2nd button and contextual menus which eventhough it may be a time saver is in the long run NOT a good thing because less time is spent on designing an interface that does not need to use a contextual menu for any reason... it makes things more complex and NOT simple no matter how you look at it... (unless of course you consider right-clicking on various parts of an interface looking for a particular function is a good thing--because it is not... and admit it, you have done this before in poorly designed programs)
Originally posted by dnisbet
Yeah but the big button looks cool doesn't it? I think Apple have always made mice that look good, but perhaps aren't as practical as other offerings from Apple. Now I never owned one so disagree with me if you so choose, but what about the 'puck' mouse that came with the old iMacs.
I think that multi-button scroll mice are great but Apple have traditionally never made them.
It'd be great to see what Johnathan Ives could make of that kind of mouse design, but if they're going to do it I think it'll be wireless, becuase that would be cool and as we know Apple always make cool products.
Of course I agree that a single button mouse with a cord should be kept on as an option for education users, a wireless mouse in a school environment would be a nightmare.
That's horrible. You mean to tell me we can blast 7 people into space, around the moon and Apple couldn't make a beautiful 2 button mouse with scroll wheel? Have a little faith man!
Originally posted by webmail
That's horrible. You mean to tell me we can blast 7 people into space, around the moon and Apple couldn't make a beautiful 2 button mouse with scroll wheel? Have a little faith man!
I wasn't saying they'll never do it, if they do today or in the near future i'll definately be getting one.
I think that the options are limited. Apple won't make a mouse that you have to put new batteries in (or they might) so they need some other ingenious way of powering the mouse. I myself prefer the kinetic method, that'd be really cool.
This would SUCK when using iSync to sync with my phone over bluetooth coz the mouse would drop out.
Not sure who wrote that... but more than one bluetooth device can talk with computer at one time. The computer acts as a BT wireless hub, similar to airport base station. That is why BT gives something similar to a MAC address to every device it "sees" on the BT network (printer, mouse, keyboard, cell phone, pda, etc). Think about it, how could you have a BT mouse and keyboard, and use both at the same time (according to your statement) ?