I never understood the strategy of announcing big products AFTER the holiday season and DURING tax season. Sure, there's a quieter press atmosphere resulting in more attention, but be serious now.
I guess the products they announce in January never ship until the summer anyways. Hm, guess I answered my own question.
<strong>How about this: what if there were two decoders on chip, a PPC and a x86-64? They could add dual decoders to smooth the transition to x86-64 if that is what they wanted to do, or use it for a windows compatibility mode. There are many things that a processor that is compatible with two instruction sets could to. Also, if anyone has ever noticed, AMD is has never been mentioned at an expo for speed comparisons, and they have been comparing PPC processors to x86 processors for years... they could have been working with AMD all that time.
If you had a mac with an X86 brain, then technically, it should be quite an easy manouver to emulate windows - for those who need their software legacy.
Then, for Mac OS X software, there's a chip that emulates a PPC until software makers make their software installers able to detect and install the appropriate version of software - PPC or X86.
BUT, even better, say AMD has made an X86 AND PPC compatible chip. Oh, wait, you just said that.
Anyway. I'm definitely not a programmer or microprocessor engineer. It just sounds like a cool idea to make a hybrid PPC / X86 chip that works on both platforms. I mean, bar some proprietary Apple ROMS, there's not a lot of difference between a mac mobo and an x86 mobo anymore, except for FSB speed and what not.
anyway, talking out of my arse here. We'll see ina few hours.
The only long term reason to switch architecture is to take advantage of competition on the X86 side in order to keep CPU/memory/mobo/IO performance up to par with industry wide advancements. But untill an X86 successor is clearly determined, choosing either IA64 or X86-64 is foolhardy.
You might say, well, Apple will choose it and stick with it even if Windows doesn't, but it that's the case they can just stay with the PPC. If lack of competition makes for a lazy Moto or IBM, what's to stop AMD (having lost the next gen window platform) from also getting lazy and selling Apple what they damn well please? It's not like Apple would be able to turn to someone else without great difficulty at that point.
If there will be any switch, it will only be AFTER M$ has clearly thrown support to one 64bit platform over the other, not before.
All the pain of switching, just to bet against Intel?
I don't know about "you people" but what I understand is that you think there is some value to x86 architecture. I don't. If you like x86 architecture so much buy one and run windows XP. It looks just like OS X. That way you won't have anything to worry about anymore.
Just a thought....If there is going to be some big AMD/Apple announcement at Comdex, wouldn't Apple need some new hardware to be ready very shortly? Otherwise, who would want to buy any of their "old" Motorola powered boxes? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
If Apple really is going to go with the Hammer, that would explain the massive case ventilation and the "leaf blower," which some of you are probably going to have to get used to hearing.
This will either have to be a niche machine - even within Apple's market - or have some AltiVec equivalent on board, partly for political reasons (developer investment) and partly because AV can still whomp anything out there when it kicks in, even in its current bandwidth-starved state.
moki mentioned something about vector functions built into the memory controller. But the Hammer has a memory controller on die, so I'm not sure whether he was referring to a top-secret vector engine added to Hammer, or another implementation that Apple has in mind, like an intermediate chipset between RAM and the processor (but that opens a can of worms.)
I could see Apple rolling out Hammer-based servers, especially for render farms and the like, and maybe a high-end workstation. Not only because the Hammer is a poor choice from an industrial design point of view (high wattage, mediocre performance/watt), but because those markets are new enough to have very little in the way of legacy Mac applications. Most UNIX server apps are a 'configure && make install' away from running happily on a Hammer-based machine.
Despite my opening joke, I'll bet that PowerMacs remain PPC, even if this does happen. They still have to run the full suite of applications. If AtAT is correct, they'll still be able to boot into OS 9 from a CD, and that would seal it.
Apparently the Keynote has been rescheduled for tomorrow according to TechTV - or so say someone at Ars. Doesn't make sense those if the guy has been verified as already having spoken about (the AMD 64)....
Who knows. The whole Apple on AMD ideas is full of holes anyway. But it still would be interesting if Apple were to use the 802.11b chip or motherboard of something of that nature....
"In a keynote address to the information technology industry at COMDEX Tuesday, Hector Ruiz, AMD (NYSE: AMD) president and chief executive officer, asserted that all technology industries must refocus on delivering solutions that are truly driven by customers and their unique needs."
I think there was a keynote by Mr. Ruiz.
Nothing shattering that I see. Maybe I don't get it, or Ruiz decided to use Apple's style PR hype from the last MWNY.
Comments
I guess the products they announce in January never ship until the summer anyways. Hm, guess I answered my own question.
<strong>How about this: what if there were two decoders on chip, a PPC and a x86-64? They could add dual decoders to smooth the transition to x86-64 if that is what they wanted to do, or use it for a windows compatibility mode. There are many things that a processor that is compatible with two instruction sets could to. Also, if anyone has ever noticed, AMD is has never been mentioned at an expo for speed comparisons, and they have been comparing PPC processors to x86 processors for years... they could have been working with AMD all that time.
[ 11-18-2002: Message edited by: imacman287 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Heh, I was just about to post the same idea.
If you had a mac with an X86 brain, then technically, it should be quite an easy manouver to emulate windows - for those who need their software legacy.
Then, for Mac OS X software, there's a chip that emulates a PPC until software makers make their software installers able to detect and install the appropriate version of software - PPC or X86.
BUT, even better, say AMD has made an X86 AND PPC compatible chip. Oh, wait, you just said that.
Anyway. I'm definitely not a programmer or microprocessor engineer. It just sounds like a cool idea to make a hybrid PPC / X86 chip that works on both platforms. I mean, bar some proprietary Apple ROMS, there's not a lot of difference between a mac mobo and an x86 mobo anymore, except for FSB speed and what not.
anyway, talking out of my arse here. We'll see ina few hours.
The only long term reason to switch architecture is to take advantage of competition on the X86 side in order to keep CPU/memory/mobo/IO performance up to par with industry wide advancements. But untill an X86 successor is clearly determined, choosing either IA64 or X86-64 is foolhardy.
You might say, well, Apple will choose it and stick with it even if Windows doesn't, but it that's the case they can just stay with the PPC. If lack of competition makes for a lazy Moto or IBM, what's to stop AMD (having lost the next gen window platform) from also getting lazy and selling Apple what they damn well please? It's not like Apple would be able to turn to someone else without great difficulty at that point.
If there will be any switch, it will only be AFTER M$ has clearly thrown support to one 64bit platform over the other, not before.
All the pain of switching, just to bet against Intel?
Do you people understand anything?
This will either have to be a niche machine - even within Apple's market - or have some AltiVec equivalent on board, partly for political reasons (developer investment) and partly because AV can still whomp anything out there when it kicks in, even in its current bandwidth-starved state.
moki mentioned something about vector functions built into the memory controller. But the Hammer has a memory controller on die, so I'm not sure whether he was referring to a top-secret vector engine added to Hammer, or another implementation that Apple has in mind, like an intermediate chipset between RAM and the processor (but that opens a can of worms.)
I could see Apple rolling out Hammer-based servers, especially for render farms and the like, and maybe a high-end workstation. Not only because the Hammer is a poor choice from an industrial design point of view (high wattage, mediocre performance/watt), but because those markets are new enough to have very little in the way of legacy Mac applications. Most UNIX server apps are a 'configure && make install' away from running happily on a Hammer-based machine.
Despite my opening joke, I'll bet that PowerMacs remain PPC, even if this does happen. They still have to run the full suite of applications. If AtAT is correct, they'll still be able to boot into OS 9 from a CD, and that would seal it.
[ 11-19-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
MSKR
<strong>Any word yet? Gates had his keynote, going to tuesday evening now, when should we expect this announcement?</strong><hr></blockquote>
AMD ceo spoke at 9:00 am (Mountain time?) but no news yet...
Apple releasing X86 Macs.... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
-Owl
Screw you guys, I'm going home.
[ 11-19-2002: Message edited by: Moogs ]</p>
<strong>Apparently the Keynote has been rescheduled for tomorrow according the TechTV - or so say someone at Ars.</strong><hr></blockquote>
hehe then the wall grows legs and runs off... <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
-Owl
<a href="http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?day0/223230394&ticker=amd"; target="_blank">http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?day0/223230394&ticker=amd</a>;
"In a keynote address to the information technology industry at COMDEX Tuesday, Hector Ruiz, AMD (NYSE: AMD) president and chief executive officer, asserted that all technology industries must refocus on delivering solutions that are truly driven by customers and their unique needs."
I think there was a keynote by Mr. Ruiz.
Nothing shattering that I see. Maybe I don't get it, or Ruiz decided to use Apple's style PR hype from the last MWNY.
[ 11-19-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]
[ 11-19-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
<a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/021119/192555_1.html"; target="_blank">AMD Keynote</a>