One-third believe WMD have been found...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/n...nt/6085261.htm



Quote:

WASHINGTON - A third of the American public believes U.S. forces have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, according to a recent poll. Twenty-two percent said Iraq actually used chemical or biological weapons.



But such weapons have not been found in Iraq and were not used.



Before the war, half of those polled in a survey said Iraqis were among the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001. But most of the Sept. 11 terrorists were Saudis; none was an Iraqi.



The results startled even the pollsters who conducted and analyzed the surveys. How could so many people be so wrong about information that has dominated news coverage for almost two years?

...



This why Bush's approval rating is in the 60's and not the 30's. You can thank the Conservative News Networks and the omnipresent fear of being labled unpatriotic.



Quote:

That is, of having their beliefs conflict with the facts. Kull noted that the mistaken belief that weapons had been found "is substantially greater among those who favored the war."




Yay for ignorance!
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 42
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    "Alright guys, lets get to these trailer parks and pump up these polls."



    I bet these are the same people Leno gets to be on Jaywalking.



    Oh and I'm sure they asked EVERY single American, and this is reason enough to crucify American society, yet again.
  • Reply 2 of 42
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    I'm not going to say this proves anything, but it's certainly scary. Any rational thoughts as to how we could get to this point? I mean, I could be more than happy to jump on the 'it's not a liberal media' bandwagon because it seems obvious. But before I do, is there any other explanation?
  • Reply 3 of 42
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    people who are home when the pollsters call and talk to them, on average, are less intelligent than the people who tell the pollsters to piss off and hang up?
  • Reply 4 of 42
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    Let's just say it: Americans are an inferior form of life.
  • Reply 5 of 42
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    I'm not going to say this proves anything, but it's certainly scary. Any rational thoughts as to how we could get to this point? I mean, I could be more than happy to jump on the 'it's not a liberal media' bandwagon because it seems obvious. But before I do, is there any other explanation?



    1. Bush has publicly stated that "we have found the weapons of mass destruction."

    2. For several weeks after the war was over, there were almost daily reports about "likely" chemical/biological weapons. Of course, not a single one of them panned out, but that point got out.
  • Reply 6 of 42
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    The common refrain of "the news is not reporting on this" is total crap.
  • Reply 7 of 42
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    do you have a link to the full text where he stated "we have found the weapons of mass destruction".



    i tried to find it but with no luck, just the one phrase. wasn't it in some other country, not covered by any US media?



    if that's the case, how would his saying this make any difference in people's perceptions.
  • Reply 8 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    do you have a link to the full text where he stated "we have found the weapons of mass destruction".



    "You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons," Bush said in an interview before leaving today on a seven-day trip to Europe and the Middle East. "They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two.



    "And we'll find more weapons as time goes on," Bush said. "But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them."



    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?nav=hptop_tb
  • Reply 9 of 42
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    people who are home when the pollsters call and talk to them, on average, are less intelligent than the people who tell the pollsters to piss off and hang up?



    And those are the same polls that showed a majority of american supported the war. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
  • Reply 10 of 42
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    Quote:

    and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons," Bush said in an interview before leaving today on a seven-day trip to Europe and the Middle East. "They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two.



    "And we'll find more weapons as time goes on," Bush said. "But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them."



    what's what all that stink was about re: a quote saying "we fond banned weapons"?



    damn, i swear.....



    a single course on logic would teach you what that sentence structure means. it doesn't say "we have found banned weapons."



    but of course, depending on how you want to headline it.....



    sensationalism is bad for quality news reporting.



    as for having my cake and eating it to, if you'll notice i don't quote polls. unless i can see what questions they asked, word for word, i don't trust them. much to easy to manipulate them to get the answer you want.
  • Reply 11 of 42
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    do you have a link to the full text where he stated "we have found the weapons of mass destruction".



    i tried to find it but with no luck, just the one phrase. wasn't it in some other country, not covered by any US media?



    if that's the case, how would his saying this make any difference in people's perceptions.




    Yeah I think it was in Poland. Linkage.



    That article didn't have the full quote, but here's a fuller quote that I believe is accurate.



    Quote:

    We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, we found them.



    You could argue that he's saying they found laboratories, not the actual WMD themselves, but then 1) why did he explicitly say "we found the weapons of mass destruction" and 2) even those laboratories are in dispute.
  • Reply 12 of 42
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    this part "And we'll find more weapons as time goes on" is the only sketchy part of what he said. either he's referring to the labs as some sort of weapons, or he's saying that they've found weapons and plan on finding more.



    in light of the rest of the quote though, i believe it's logical to infer he's still talking about the labs. whether or not they're really weapons labs.....
  • Reply 13 of 42
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    a single course on logic would teach you what that sentence structure means. it doesn't say "we have found banned weapons."



    yes it does.
  • Reply 14 of 42
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    Quote:

    "You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons," Bush said in an interview before leaving today on a seven-day trip to Europe and the Middle East. "They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two.



    "And we'll find more weapons as time goes on," Bush said. "But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them."






    that's the entire text, verbatim.



    A=Bush

    B=Powell

    X=Iraq

    Y=Labs

    Z=WoMD





    A says B states X posseses Y.

    Y leads to Z.

    Y = illegal

    Y = against resolutions.

    2Y have been found.



    We will find more Z.

    No Y or Z = false



    The statement "We found them" could mean

    Found Y or Z = true

    Found 2Y = true



    both are plural, both would fit within th above statments.



    the only real catch is "We will find more Z". it's only true if Y leads to Z.



    however, if Y leads to Z, then the entire thing is true.
  • Reply 15 of 42
    We know that that WMDs have not been found in Iraq because we're constantly arguing and splitting hairs over this issue.



    A great many people don't care about the details, and Bush's "we found them" is good enough.



    The Bush administration consists of some very capeable, media savvy and intelligent individuals. They know who their target demographic is and they know how to feed them what they want to hear.
  • Reply 16 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    that's the entire text, verbatim.



    A=Bush

    B=Powell

    X=Iraq

    Y=Labs

    Z=WoMD





    A says B states X posseses Y.

    Y leads to Z.

    Y = illegal

    Y = against resolutions.

    2Y have been found.



    We will find more Z.

    No Y or Z = false



    The statement "We found them" could mean

    Found Y or Z = true

    Found 2Y = true



    both are plural, both would fit within th above statments.



    the only real catch is "We will find more Z". it's only true if Y leads to Z.



    however, if Y leads to Z, then the entire thing is true.




    Sure, in Bizarro world. Or if you leave out the fact that the labs were not definitely used to create bio weapons.



    Here's one for you. My grandmother has a knife in her kitchen. Knives can be used to stab people. Therefore my grandmother stabs people.
  • Reply 17 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Outsider

    I bet these are the same people Leno gets to be on Jaywalking.





    and the people that watch jay leno.
  • Reply 18 of 42
    I don't get it. Bush said:



    Quote:

    We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories.



    alcimedes says of that sentence:



    Quote:

    it doesn't say "we have found banned weapons."



    Was alcimedes writing about a different sentence? A different Bush? Does it depend on what my definition of 'is' is or something?
  • Reply 19 of 42
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah

    a different sentence? A different Bush?



    No, just a different set of standards for conservatives than for everyone else.
  • Reply 20 of 42
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Alcimedes. I read it as you are saying that:



    Quote:

    But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them.



    means that Bush states that they have either found banned manufacturing devices OR banned weapons.



    I read it as "Those who say we haven´t found banned manufacturing devices AND those who say we haven´t found banned weapons are wrong." For me thats the only way to read the sentence. Or else this sentence would be right: "Those who say the moon is made of green cheese or dust and rocks are wrong. It is".



    But since they found neither Bush is wrong either way...
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