Looks like there won't be any new PBs for a while and maybe not for another 7 weeks. Mid-September, according to this latest bit from MacBoodle (edited for English):
Quote:
- [ Rumors ] Still of the news of the portables - Lionel - 10:00:43
Information which follows will have for you a taste of already considering. But since they result from a source reliable and different from the preceding rumors on the portables, one can regard them as confirmations.
Motorola had promised processors 7457 in a number sufficient for May. However at the date of today, APPLE does not have any to lace its new portables enough.
Wearied, Steve Jobs gives at Motorola the nickname scum-a-rola into private.
APPLE had done everything to ship the portables before the school re-entry, but one is likely not to see them arriving before during September, and losing these significant sales of beginning of year.
For Powerbook G5, APPLE could in theory use the given rhythm Processor with 1.4 GHz for these machines. But the motherboard controller must be engraved in 0.09 Microns, and will not be ready for 6 months. Only good news, they should start their career with 1.8 and 2 GHz with first G5 engraved in 0.09 Microns.
This is very disappointing. MOSR has more about PBs today, saying backlighting for KBs across the board, which is nice.
There's actually not much in the way of "insider" information there. It's publicly known that Mot punted the 7457 back from the beginning of this year, and also that it's currently shipping in test motherboards, slated for general release in Q4.
Late spring is primo school shopping season, which is why the iBook was introduced, and subsequently updated, in late spring.
It's pretty obvious that the 7455 isn't going anywhere further as a CPU, so Apple has either the 7457 or the 970 to go to. The '57 is an obvious, drop-in-and-go choice, and the 970 is a complete cipher - but it's not outside the realm of possibility that the crucial bits of a 970-based board will need to be fabbed on 90nm to work in a PowerBook. All we know is that IBM hopes to move to 90nm "quickly," whatever that means. (Note to Gobi fans: There will be no G3 with SIMD for a good while yet.)
My bet is that Apple had intended to announce the PowerBooks at MWSF, and stagger the shipping out as Mot ramped up production of the 7457. Instead, they have to wait 9 months or so, which neatly coincides with the usual time between PowerBook updates anyway.
So, basically, without any recourse to "rumors" or what-have-you, it's pretty clear that a PowerBook refresh is due for this fall, powered by the MPC7457. The 970 is a wild card, because we simply don't have enough information about it.
Pscates gets on to me for taking him too seriously about his musing out loud that the 15" would remain Titanium, when I disagreed with that... and here's someone again taking pscates seriously,
Have I again made a mistake by taking taliesin too seriously too?
My post wasn't clear. My point was that the titanium was not the cause for the issues that the powerbook had with airport range and heat. Nor is aluminum the solution. The Powerbook will probably be aluminum next go round. But it will be for cost reasons. Titanium is sexy and makes a bold design statement. But at the gauges that those stampings are made at, they are prone to denting. I think what pscates was trying to say, was that we don't know what is gonna happen. We have gotten zero solid info from the pipeline to tell us one way or the other. The safe money is on making the whole line aluminum. But if they didn't, the world would not end for me.
So, basically, without any recourse to "rumors" or what-have-you, it's pretty clear that a PowerBook refresh is due for this fall, powered by the MPC7457. The 970 is a wild card, because we simply don't have enough information about it.
Guess that's true.
Is anyone fabbing any chips at .09µ? Seems like it's such a new process that it'd be really hard to make anything before March which is what I'd consider the soonest we can expect a PBG5.
The sooner Apple can shed itself of Scum-a-rola, the better.
I did not read the whole thread so maybe someone else has already mentioned it. Motorola has all product specifications of the 7457 on its site. 1,3 GHZ with 10 watts, sounds like the interim powerbook to me
Is anyone fabbing any chips at .09µ? Seems like it's such a new process that it'd be really hard to make anything before March which is what I'd consider the soonest we can expect a PBG5.
I'm not that up on it. At Semicon West last week I heard discussions that the dimensions of some production chips are now about 60nm. These are the sizes of some features of the chips. I don't know how they characterize the wafer process as a whole.
Also it seems likely that Apple will raise the prices of the new PBs back up to the old level when the new models comes out.
I, for one, don't think this is true. The Powerbooks are now lagging behind their Wintel counterparts in clock speed, actual speed and battery life. This will not change until the .09 G5s and/or fuel cell batteries. Price cuts are in order for the next round of 7457 'Books.
I did not read the whole thread so maybe someone else has already mentioned it. Motorola has all product specifications of the 7457 on its site. 1,3 GHZ with 10 watts, sounds like the interim powerbook to me
I'm not that up on it. At Semicon West last week I heard discussions that the dimensions of some production chips are now about 60nm. These are the sizes of some features of the chips. I don't know how they characterize the wafer process as a whole.
Some of the features on the 970 are even smaller than 60nm, but it's still fabbed on a 130nm process.
Motorola used to play games with using one of the smaller features on the G4 (the gates?) to measure process size so they always looked like they were ahead of everyone.
As far as I know, there's no volume production at 90nm yet. That's for late this year / early next year. Intel expects to be there first, IBM will probably be hard on Intel's heels, and if Crolles works out Motorola and its European partners will not be long after.
I, for one, don't think this is true. The Powerbooks are now lagging behind their Wintel counterparts in clock speed, actual speed and battery life. This will not change until the .09 G5s and/or fuel cell batteries. Price cuts are in order for the next round of 7457 'Books.
Agree, except for the fuel cell. Apple's marvelous PB's were/are fantastic except for their July 03 performance. 1GHz! please!. Im willing to buy a G4 @ 1.33, but would consider the 17" if it gets 2x7457's. Oh, and Apple never reduces prices when they update, well get better specs instead.
They have reduced prices with PowerBook revisions in the past. Just ask anyone who had just purchased a new 800MHz TiBook a week before it was speed bumped. They're likely still VERY upset about it.
Well I just ordered a 1 Gzh 15" PB. I think it is a pretty good hedge since I get the EDU discount.
That's a fairly hefty 'hedge'.. all one has to do is remember back last year to the $1000+ price drops overnight... And price rises? Oh i don't think so... Just check out the price points on the G5's - exactly the same as the G4's.. (when you un-Superdrive the bottom two)
I sure hope your gamble pays off, but i got a feeling it aint gunna..
Titanium effectively blocks AirPort signals. Aluminum, on the other hand, makes an effective antenna. It's not an accident that the aluminum 'Books suddenly got reception as good as the iBook's.
Titanium is used for rf shielding as is aluminum and copper.
An antenna has to a conduct electrons and titanium does that nicely, aluminum is a better conductor (silver is the best). Both cases are at ground potential. The key is to configure the antenna in such a way as to create a ground plane for the rf energy being transmitted. I haven't measured it (but I will, now that you got me thinking about it) but I would imagine the the swr (standing wave ratio-a measure of antenna's effectiveness) is better on the AL because if its placement.
Quote:
Casting and machining titanium are prohibitive, which is why Apple doesn't do either. The cases for the TiBook are stamped from sheets.
True, they are stamped I didn't suggest otherwise. The my point was that titanium is expensive to deal with. Stampings not withstanding, the material costs a great deal more than aluminum. Titanium is not lighter (pound for pound) than aluminum but it is stronger this allows it to be used in smaller dimensions for the same strength.
Comments
Information which follows will have for you a taste of already considering. But since they result from a source reliable and different from the preceding rumors on the portables, one can regard them as confirmations.
Motorola had promised processors 7457 in a number sufficient for May. However at the date of today, APPLE does not have any to lace its new portables enough.
Wearied, Steve Jobs gives at Motorola the nickname scum-a-rola into private.
APPLE had done everything to ship the portables before the school re-entry, but one is likely not to see them arriving before during September, and losing these significant sales of beginning of year.
For Powerbook G5, APPLE could in theory use the given rhythm Processor with 1.4 GHz for these machines. But the motherboard controller must be engraved in 0.09 Microns, and will not be ready for 6 months. Only good news, they should start their career with 1.8 and 2 GHz with first G5 engraved in 0.09 Microns.
This is very disappointing. MOSR has more about PBs today, saying backlighting for KBs across the board, which is nice.
Late spring is primo school shopping season, which is why the iBook was introduced, and subsequently updated, in late spring.
It's pretty obvious that the 7455 isn't going anywhere further as a CPU, so Apple has either the 7457 or the 970 to go to. The '57 is an obvious, drop-in-and-go choice, and the 970 is a complete cipher - but it's not outside the realm of possibility that the crucial bits of a 970-based board will need to be fabbed on 90nm to work in a PowerBook. All we know is that IBM hopes to move to 90nm "quickly," whatever that means. (Note to Gobi fans: There will be no G3 with SIMD for a good while yet.)
My bet is that Apple had intended to announce the PowerBooks at MWSF, and stagger the shipping out as Mot ramped up production of the 7457. Instead, they have to wait 9 months or so, which neatly coincides with the usual time between PowerBook updates anyway.
So, basically, without any recourse to "rumors" or what-have-you, it's pretty clear that a PowerBook refresh is due for this fall, powered by the MPC7457. The 970 is a wild card, because we simply don't have enough information about it.
Originally posted by shetline
Pscates gets on to me for taking him too seriously about his musing out loud that the 15" would remain Titanium, when I disagreed with that... and here's someone again taking pscates seriously,
Have I again made a mistake by taking taliesin too seriously too?
My post wasn't clear. My point was that the titanium was not the cause for the issues that the powerbook had with airport range and heat. Nor is aluminum the solution. The Powerbook will probably be aluminum next go round. But it will be for cost reasons. Titanium is sexy and makes a bold design statement. But at the gauges that those stampings are made at, they are prone to denting. I think what pscates was trying to say, was that we don't know what is gonna happen. We have gotten zero solid info from the pipeline to tell us one way or the other. The safe money is on making the whole line aluminum. But if they didn't, the world would not end for me.
Originally posted by taliesin
The safe money is on making the whole line aluminum. But if they didn't, the world would not end for me.
You can bet your butt they will
Originally posted by Amorph
So, basically, without any recourse to "rumors" or what-have-you, it's pretty clear that a PowerBook refresh is due for this fall, powered by the MPC7457. The 970 is a wild card, because we simply don't have enough information about it.
Guess that's true.
Is anyone fabbing any chips at .09µ? Seems like it's such a new process that it'd be really hard to make anything before March which is what I'd consider the soonest we can expect a PBG5.
The sooner Apple can shed itself of Scum-a-rola, the better.
http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps...018rH3bTdG8653
It seems yields are pitiful and that's why the new PBs are delayed. It sucks!
Originally posted by Rolo
Is anyone fabbing any chips at .09µ? Seems like it's such a new process that it'd be really hard to make anything before March which is what I'd consider the soonest we can expect a PBG5.
I'm not that up on it. At Semicon West last week I heard discussions that the dimensions of some production chips are now about 60nm. These are the sizes of some features of the chips. I don't know how they characterize the wafer process as a whole.
Well it might seem that motorola has dissapointed us again...
867Mhz, 1.0 Ghz, 1.3Ghz ... on a 167Mhz Bus
But I am optimistic, lower power requirements on a .13 process, and double the L2 cache will make a decent laptop chip.
Also remember that the 7455 is not listed to go up to 1.4Ghz, only 1Ghz... Faster chips than expected could come.
If the new PB's come out next Tuesday, my computer won't have shipped yet so it will be upgraded to the new model.
But if its going to be another month or so I'll have a computer when I enter college, instead of a computer on back order due to high demand.
Also it seems likely that Apple will raise the prices of the new PBs back up to the old level when the new models comes out.
1 Gzh with L3 cache seems plenty fast. The only thing lacking is Airport reception and bluetooth.
Originally posted by jante99
Also it seems likely that Apple will raise the prices of the new PBs back up to the old level when the new models comes out.
I, for one, don't think this is true. The Powerbooks are now lagging behind their Wintel counterparts in clock speed, actual speed and battery life. This will not change until the .09 G5s and/or fuel cell batteries. Price cuts are in order for the next round of 7457 'Books.
Originally posted by jante99
Also it seems likely that Apple will raise the prices of the new PBs back up to the old level when the new models comes out.
Based on what inside information?
Originally posted by pim_fortuyn
I did not read the whole thread so maybe someone else has already mentioned it. Motorola has all product specifications of the 7457 on its site. 1,3 GHZ with 10 watts, sounds like the interim powerbook to me
http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps...018rH3bTdG8653
there is another link to a PDF from motorola about the 7457
e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7457EC.pdf
interesting thing. in table 7 the power use characteristics are not much different to the other chips:
867 MHz 1.0 GHz 1.3 GHz
Full-Power Mode
Typical 14.8 15.8 18.7
Maximum 21.0 22.0 26.0
another interesting thing, in section 1.4 it says the transistor count is 58 million.
19W at 1.3GHz and 58 million transistors. both these things sound more like a 970 characteristics.
Originally posted by neutrino23
I'm not that up on it. At Semicon West last week I heard discussions that the dimensions of some production chips are now about 60nm. These are the sizes of some features of the chips. I don't know how they characterize the wafer process as a whole.
Some of the features on the 970 are even smaller than 60nm, but it's still fabbed on a 130nm process.
Motorola used to play games with using one of the smaller features on the G4 (the gates?) to measure process size so they always looked like they were ahead of everyone.
As far as I know, there's no volume production at 90nm yet. That's for late this year / early next year. Intel expects to be there first, IBM will probably be hard on Intel's heels, and if Crolles works out Motorola and its European partners will not be long after.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
I, for one, don't think this is true. The Powerbooks are now lagging behind their Wintel counterparts in clock speed, actual speed and battery life. This will not change until the .09 G5s and/or fuel cell batteries. Price cuts are in order for the next round of 7457 'Books.
Agree, except for the fuel cell. Apple's marvelous PB's were/are fantastic except for their July 03 performance. 1GHz! please!. Im willing to buy a G4 @ 1.33, but would consider the 17" if it gets 2x7457's. Oh, and Apple never reduces prices when they update, well get better specs instead.
Originally posted by jante99
Well I just ordered a 1 Gzh 15" PB. I think it is a pretty good hedge since I get the EDU discount.
That's a fairly hefty 'hedge'.. all one has to do is remember back last year to the $1000+ price drops overnight... And price rises? Oh i don't think so... Just check out the price points on the G5's - exactly the same as the G4's.. (when you un-Superdrive the bottom two)
I sure hope your gamble pays off, but i got a feeling it aint gunna..
Originally posted by Amorph
Titanium effectively blocks AirPort signals. Aluminum, on the other hand, makes an effective antenna. It's not an accident that the aluminum 'Books suddenly got reception as good as the iBook's.
Titanium is used for rf shielding as is aluminum and copper.
An antenna has to a conduct electrons and titanium does that nicely, aluminum is a better conductor (silver is the best). Both cases are at ground potential. The key is to configure the antenna in such a way as to create a ground plane for the rf energy being transmitted. I haven't measured it (but I will, now that you got me thinking about it) but I would imagine the the swr (standing wave ratio-a measure of antenna's effectiveness) is better on the AL because if its placement.
Casting and machining titanium are prohibitive, which is why Apple doesn't do either. The cases for the TiBook are stamped from sheets.
True, they are stamped I didn't suggest otherwise. The my point was that titanium is expensive to deal with. Stampings not withstanding, the material costs a great deal more than aluminum. Titanium is not lighter (pound for pound) than aluminum but it is stronger this allows it to be used in smaller dimensions for the same strength.