Wow. I've never seen people ignore reality to this extent just to get their hopes up about a product. Well i don't mind you continuing to waste your time posting about how the G5 is gonna come half a year early, just PLEASE don't come on here 10 minutes after the keynote saying "Apple sucks, theyre going out of business".
From Clive - But your assumption has no logic to back it up!?
Oh I have no logic. Because IBM stated that they will start sampling 970 in Q2, that means nothing is going to be available earlier. IBM can say anything they want but what they do can be different from time to time. At first, I wasn't completely sure that 970 can be used for the next Mac because early details from IBM did not mention Altivec but did mention some sort of SMD unit with 160 instructions built in. The G4 has 162 instructions, so it is not really the same. Few weeks later. IBM has stated the SMD has 162 instructions as opposed to 160 and its Altivec compatible. So, press release can change from time to time.
Another point makes it even clearer, Apple has been busy rebuilding its base and find new ways to increase market share. Their digital hub, coupled with IPOD, Firewire and now even iSync, Iphoto and iCal , all designed to tap into both everyday business and entertaining needs. With Apple, new software strategy and their new vision to capitalize into newer industry such as Hollywood (Final Cut Pro) and consumer video revolution (iMovie). They really need to stay ahead of time. And as you see, Apple retail store and overall sales outperform the PC market. However, their massive effort still only capitalizes 5% market share. Market share should be at least 10% by now. Doesn't that give you a signal, that something else is missing. There are two main reasons why PC users will not switch to Macs.
Reason number one: Mac platform lacks apps and file formats are not compatible - this issue has been partially addressed by iapps strategy along with some big software makers pledges to develop new apps native for OSX. Apple also uses iSync to find new friends such as syncing with bluetooth phones and Palm without the need for those vendors to develop a separate set of applications for Macs. This helps but that is only half the solution.
As for second reason why PC users will stay away: is clockspeed, Intel loves to bluff numbers and performance with unusual high number of pipelines in order to generate frequency but Intel indeed uses the strategy well, with clockspeed increase substantially coupled with an enhance L2, definitely on par compared with top of the line G4 , and the bus that tries to keep the processor busy, with DDR support for FSB also, where is Motorola on this one. OK, may be numbers are misleading, but few years ago even G3 proclaim Pentium are turtle and few years later, you know the story. Altivec helps but not all apps fly and Motorola hasn?t done much since then. So what Apple has done recently on this issue, not much. Since superchips need enhanced process and $$$ for development, Motorola is currently in financial trouble, and Apple is not their priority customer either. Theres not much Apple can expect since Motorola cannot be part of the equation. So Apple must address performance for the next issue. It so happens that IBM seems to have a solution at the right place and may be even the best time, why won?t it be possible that Apple will adopt it first. 970 can be use on other computing platform, but which one is more important than Apple. Apple is the largest unix vendor and probably is the only alternative platform capable of rebuilding its market share to compete with PC. IBM probably designs the 970 with Apple in mind since IBM likes SJ strategy and wants to help out. (Remember, SJ wants more market share, meaning more unit sales than current) So Apple is not important, 970 is definitely a Mac priority from IBM.
U guys are all Mac users, so am I, SJ makes solutions and he knows for sure if Mac continues to use PowerPC, processor must continue to excel, otherwise switch to Intel. I think there is more than logic. Programmer even tells me to moan about it. What is that to moan, its just a simple thread, there is no bet involve, no need to give each other a bad name like Jackass and I am definitely not religious. This is only my 50th post. I?m entitle to my own opinion, I agree I can be wrong too, I am not god and I am definitely not obsess. If all is missing its just a simple question mark for the topic title, I am sorry about it. I am definitely not trying to jack up the response by using this title either. So fxxk you all very much.
From WishIwasblack- Yes we do. IBM told everyone flat out, Q3. If they beat that, then it'll be Q2.
We absolutely know for sure based on facts that there will be no G5 at MWSF. No speculation, no special "logic". Just cold, hard facts. Your the jackass here, buddy.
Yea, I see, why don't you just read the newspapers. what the fxck are you posting if you are so fxxking certain. U shouldn't be here at all. I am not your buddy either. Go and bud-fxxk yourself, BUDDY.
Everyone take 5, count to 100, grow a thicker skin, whatever you have to do.
I don't want to see any more insults or not-quite-cussing. tiramisubomb, that means you too. Every single one of your latest stream of replies could have - and should have - been made civilly.
From Big Mac - Unfortunately, I am confident that we won't see 970 Macs at MWSF. I'll be at the keynote, so I'll find out directly. If I am wrong (which I would love to be, but won't), then tiramisubomb can expect $10 from me to his email address once I get back.
Well, Big Mac, I am not that poor, I can afford a Big Mac. Thanks for your concern.
[quote]Originally posted by Transcendental Octothorpe:
<strong>
That might just be their only option.
I hope as much as anyone that the 970 will appear this Jan, but I don't really expect it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't expect it either, just statng the abvious.
[quote]<strong> Apple may not have been able to swing a deal with IBM that required IBM's total silence on the 970 until Apple's release. Bear in mind that Apple didn't really have any other options, so if IBM says "we don't work that way, take it or leave it" Apple had little choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If IBM is using the ApplePI stuff that has been rumored, then they did have to sign an NDA.
<strong> [quote]
Oh, and for those still unsure whether Apple is even going to USE the 970 (some still seem to doubt), I have no doubt. I have been told by those who would know at IBM that "we have won all Apple business". Think what you like.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If we really look at how much coverage that the Apple IBM connection is getting it is unreal. If it were not for the Apple stores and very high demand for the iMac and very good sales of the iBook Apple would be very bad off. I don't think that the executive group would allow this to happen. There are options, none cheap, but there are were options. The Apple system chip is one, glad to see that it is shipping. Quartz extreme is another. ROI was another, I tink that MOTO would have been happy to do that. Maybe ROI is a stopgap looming.
From Amorph -Everyone take 5, count to 100, grow a thicker skin, whatever you have to do.
I don't want to see any more insults or not-quite-cussing. tiramisubomb, that means you too. Every single one of your latest stream of replies could have - and should have - been made civilly.
Thanks for your concern, What r u, my dad? I come here for a simple post. I was polite, and I did not start out anything with anyone. But these AI members are just bunch of pricks. If you want me to behave, tell these punks to behave.
<strong>From Amorph -Everyone take 5, count to 100, grow a thicker skin, whatever you have to do.
I don't want to see any more insults or not-quite-cussing. tiramisubomb, that means you too. Every single one of your latest stream of replies could have - and should have - been made civilly.
Thanks for your concern, What r u, my dad? I come here for a simple post. I was polite, and I did not start out anything with anyone. But these AI members are just bunch of pricks. If you want me to behave, tell these punks to behave.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>From Programmer - Just so long as he doesn't come back here after MWSF moaning about how Apple let him down again.
When did I ever say that? U must have some vision problems. Fuxxking Dick.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This reply is out of line. I believe the Programmer comment to be tongue-in-cheek humor, nothing more. If it is something more than it would be the first time for Programmer that I have seen. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
I firmly believe IBM can deliver the chips in lower frequency earlier, perhaps as soon as Q103.
Based on what evidence? Is it based on what you want to happen? Bah, how religious of you to believe without any evidence.
_________________
If u want evidence, go to talk to a guy who got caught by Apple. This is a forum, I am not in court. I believe what I like and what the fxck does that have to do with religious. Another fuxking idiot who think himself is funny. Diu Lee Lo Mo
JOIN THE PRO-DEATH MOVEMENT! Yea, why don't u kill yourself too. Thats for you too Xidius
This is nothing to do with you. No offense to you anyway. I don't post here often. But these guys are really fxxking insulting. I have no grudge, but I am not a punch bag. Its just me. I don't care. They can shove it up their asxholx
I don't have the slightest clue as to when we will see an overhauled PowerMac that sports the 970 chip. However, I will not be overly surprised if it's announced early in 2003. The potential reasons have been covered: Silence from Apple regarding IBM's announcement, the timing from IBM's announcement having the potential for significantly lower sales of current PM hardware for quite a few months, etc.
What also should be considered (not a new thought) is that the new case designs from Apple (Windtunnel) appeared almost too far in advance of their real need if we are not to see the new chips until the second half of 2003. I can't recall one good reason for the Windtunnel case being needed for current G4-based designs. I could see Apple wanting to get them out there ahead of the 970 so if any possible flaw turns up, they will have the chance of correcting it for the 970 intro. Apple has done this before but not, IIRC, upwards of a year ahead of time.
Also, when IBM talks about 3Q2003 availability, they could be referring to general availability. By and large, a public announcement usually refers to general availability. Does that mean that the chip is not available to a partner (ie non-public customer) beforehand?
(Windtunnel) appeared almost too far in advance of their real need ..... . I can't recall one good reason for the Windtunnel case being needed for current G4-based designs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Many people have posted similar statements. But, as far as I know we have no spec.'s on the 1.25GHz Motorola G4's. Maybe they do need the windtunnels high velocity, maximum torque, massive heat sink cooling, especially in dual machines. Why hasn't Motorola published spec.'s yet, could it be this cpu will never see the light of day outside of the windtunnels?
I could be wrong, er, uh, wait a minute, I didn't say anything, so I can't be wrong but I might not be right.
Comments
When did I ever say that? U must have some vision problems. Fuxxking Dick.
Oh I have no logic. Because IBM stated that they will start sampling 970 in Q2, that means nothing is going to be available earlier. IBM can say anything they want but what they do can be different from time to time. At first, I wasn't completely sure that 970 can be used for the next Mac because early details from IBM did not mention Altivec but did mention some sort of SMD unit with 160 instructions built in. The G4 has 162 instructions, so it is not really the same. Few weeks later. IBM has stated the SMD has 162 instructions as opposed to 160 and its Altivec compatible. So, press release can change from time to time.
Another point makes it even clearer, Apple has been busy rebuilding its base and find new ways to increase market share. Their digital hub, coupled with IPOD, Firewire and now even iSync, Iphoto and iCal , all designed to tap into both everyday business and entertaining needs. With Apple, new software strategy and their new vision to capitalize into newer industry such as Hollywood (Final Cut Pro) and consumer video revolution (iMovie). They really need to stay ahead of time. And as you see, Apple retail store and overall sales outperform the PC market. However, their massive effort still only capitalizes 5% market share. Market share should be at least 10% by now. Doesn't that give you a signal, that something else is missing. There are two main reasons why PC users will not switch to Macs.
Reason number one: Mac platform lacks apps and file formats are not compatible - this issue has been partially addressed by iapps strategy along with some big software makers pledges to develop new apps native for OSX. Apple also uses iSync to find new friends such as syncing with bluetooth phones and Palm without the need for those vendors to develop a separate set of applications for Macs. This helps but that is only half the solution.
As for second reason why PC users will stay away: is clockspeed, Intel loves to bluff numbers and performance with unusual high number of pipelines in order to generate frequency but Intel indeed uses the strategy well, with clockspeed increase substantially coupled with an enhance L2, definitely on par compared with top of the line G4 , and the bus that tries to keep the processor busy, with DDR support for FSB also, where is Motorola on this one. OK, may be numbers are misleading, but few years ago even G3 proclaim Pentium are turtle and few years later, you know the story. Altivec helps but not all apps fly and Motorola hasn?t done much since then. So what Apple has done recently on this issue, not much. Since superchips need enhanced process and $$$ for development, Motorola is currently in financial trouble, and Apple is not their priority customer either. Theres not much Apple can expect since Motorola cannot be part of the equation. So Apple must address performance for the next issue. It so happens that IBM seems to have a solution at the right place and may be even the best time, why won?t it be possible that Apple will adopt it first. 970 can be use on other computing platform, but which one is more important than Apple. Apple is the largest unix vendor and probably is the only alternative platform capable of rebuilding its market share to compete with PC. IBM probably designs the 970 with Apple in mind since IBM likes SJ strategy and wants to help out. (Remember, SJ wants more market share, meaning more unit sales than current) So Apple is not important, 970 is definitely a Mac priority from IBM.
U guys are all Mac users, so am I, SJ makes solutions and he knows for sure if Mac continues to use PowerPC, processor must continue to excel, otherwise switch to Intel. I think there is more than logic. Programmer even tells me to moan about it. What is that to moan, its just a simple thread, there is no bet involve, no need to give each other a bad name like Jackass and I am definitely not religious. This is only my 50th post. I?m entitle to my own opinion, I agree I can be wrong too, I am not god and I am definitely not obsess. If all is missing its just a simple question mark for the topic title, I am sorry about it. I am definitely not trying to jack up the response by using this title either. So fxxk you all very much.
We absolutely know for sure based on facts that there will be no G5 at MWSF. No speculation, no special "logic". Just cold, hard facts. Your the jackass here, buddy.
Yea, I see, why don't you just read the newspapers. what the fxck are you posting if you are so fxxking certain. U shouldn't be here at all. I am not your buddy either. Go and bud-fxxk yourself, BUDDY.
I don't want to see any more insults or not-quite-cussing. tiramisubomb, that means you too. Every single one of your latest stream of replies could have - and should have - been made civilly.
[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
Well, Big Mac, I am not that poor, I can afford a Big Mac. Thanks for your concern.
<strong>
That might just be their only option.
I hope as much as anyone that the 970 will appear this Jan, but I don't really expect it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't expect it either, just statng the abvious.
[quote]<strong> Apple may not have been able to swing a deal with IBM that required IBM's total silence on the 970 until Apple's release. Bear in mind that Apple didn't really have any other options, so if IBM says "we don't work that way, take it or leave it" Apple had little choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If IBM is using the ApplePI stuff that has been rumored, then they did have to sign an NDA.
<strong> [quote]
Oh, and for those still unsure whether Apple is even going to USE the 970 (some still seem to doubt), I have no doubt. I have been told by those who would know at IBM that "we have won all Apple business". Think what you like.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If we really look at how much coverage that the Apple IBM connection is getting it is unreal. If it were not for the Apple stores and very high demand for the iMac and very good sales of the iBook Apple would be very bad off. I don't think that the executive group would allow this to happen. There are options, none cheap, but there are were options. The Apple system chip is one, glad to see that it is shipping. Quartz extreme is another. ROI was another, I tink that MOTO would have been happy to do that. Maybe ROI is a stopgap looming.
I don't want to see any more insults or not-quite-cussing. tiramisubomb, that means you too. Every single one of your latest stream of replies could have - and should have - been made civilly.
Thanks for your concern, What r u, my dad? I come here for a simple post. I was polite, and I did not start out anything with anyone. But these AI members are just bunch of pricks. If you want me to behave, tell these punks to behave.
<strong>From Amorph -Everyone take 5, count to 100, grow a thicker skin, whatever you have to do.
I don't want to see any more insults or not-quite-cussing. tiramisubomb, that means you too. Every single one of your latest stream of replies could have - and should have - been made civilly.
Thanks for your concern, What r u, my dad? I come here for a simple post. I was polite, and I did not start out anything with anyone. But these AI members are just bunch of pricks. If you want me to behave, tell these punks to behave.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>From Programmer - Just so long as he doesn't come back here after MWSF moaning about how Apple let him down again.
When did I ever say that? U must have some vision problems. Fuxxking Dick.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This reply is out of line. I believe the Programmer comment to be tongue-in-cheek humor, nothing more. If it is something more than it would be the first time for Programmer that I have seen. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
<strong><a href="http://www.angermgmt.com/angertoolkit.html"; target="_blank">here you go tb.</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm from Indiana, we throw chairs, and from-time-to-time throttle! Works for me.
quote
I firmly believe IBM can deliver the chips in lower frequency earlier, perhaps as soon as Q103.
Based on what evidence? Is it based on what you want to happen? Bah, how religious of you to believe without any evidence.
_________________
If u want evidence, go to talk to a guy who got caught by Apple. This is a forum, I am not in court. I believe what I like and what the fxck does that have to do with religious. Another fuxking idiot who think himself is funny. Diu Lee Lo Mo
JOIN THE PRO-DEATH MOVEMENT! Yea, why don't u kill yourself too. Thats for you too Xidius
This is nothing to do with you. No offense to you anyway. I don't post here often. But these guys are really fxxking insulting. I have no grudge, but I am not a punch bag. Its just me. I don't care. They can shove it up their asxholx
(first and only. I promise
Guess I was wrong.......
I think somebody needs a prozac smoothie!
I don't have the slightest clue as to when we will see an overhauled PowerMac that sports the 970 chip. However, I will not be overly surprised if it's announced early in 2003. The potential reasons have been covered: Silence from Apple regarding IBM's announcement, the timing from IBM's announcement having the potential for significantly lower sales of current PM hardware for quite a few months, etc.
What also should be considered (not a new thought) is that the new case designs from Apple (Windtunnel) appeared almost too far in advance of their real need if we are not to see the new chips until the second half of 2003. I can't recall one good reason for the Windtunnel case being needed for current G4-based designs. I could see Apple wanting to get them out there ahead of the 970 so if any possible flaw turns up, they will have the chance of correcting it for the 970 intro. Apple has done this before but not, IIRC, upwards of a year ahead of time.
Also, when IBM talks about 3Q2003 availability, they could be referring to general availability. By and large, a public announcement usually refers to general availability. Does that mean that the chip is not available to a partner (ie non-public customer) beforehand?
<strong>
(Windtunnel) appeared almost too far in advance of their real need ..... . I can't recall one good reason for the Windtunnel case being needed for current G4-based designs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Many people have posted similar statements. But, as far as I know we have no spec.'s on the 1.25GHz Motorola G4's. Maybe they do need the windtunnels high velocity, maximum torque, massive heat sink cooling, especially in dual machines. Why hasn't Motorola published spec.'s yet, could it be this cpu will never see the light of day outside of the windtunnels?
I could be wrong, er, uh, wait a minute, I didn't say anything, so I can't be wrong but I might not be right.
[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
I don't want to throw a fly in the oinment here, but when IBM talks releases dates, are they talking physical or fiscal calenders?
Apple's fiscal calender (and much of the computer industry I believe) begins in October, so January would be Q2 to Apple.
That's not saying that there will be a 970 at MWSF, but April could be a reasonable time, which fits in with the previous, once removed, PM update.
TheFly