I love the feel and look of the pro mouse, but even though it is plugged in and on my desk I rarely use it. The scroll wheel on my (IBM) after-market mouse is essential for me, and the second button is useful and easier than tipping my chair forward to reach the keyboard.
The existing pro mouse could easily be given this functionality by adding a scroll wheel and implementing a second "button" by using a rocking motion to have a forward "click" and "back" click.
This would leave the mouse buttonless but add the functionality of of three (you could also click the wheel) button mouse. Apple would still have something unique, yet functional.
I'm becoming a bit of an ergo zealot. I gotta say, that I HATE using the scroll wheel on ms M$ mouse. It's so slow and terrible. Even it were fast, it'd still be an ergo nightmare. PgUP and PgDN are definitely the way to scroll or arrow keys for smaller movements. Much easier on the hands than the scroll wheel which though seeming handy, is REALLY REALL REALLY bad for your hands. There is almost NO WAY to place the traditional scroll wheel in a ergonomicaly safe manner.
I'm liking my one button mouse pad better and better each day. Click & Hold is a better solution than click & double click, much less strain when a lifetime of computing passes under your fingers, just learn a little patience and it's ultimately faster too, healthy hands equal faster typing and navigation. Seems like an apology, but it isn't.
Ctrl-Click vs. right mouse button. I'll say that it's convenient to have that extra button, but I find myself liking the Ctrl click, though on the laptop keyboard, that's virtually the same thing, everything falls to hand. If you type right, though, even on the desktop keyboard, everything should fall to hand. The ultimate power keyboard would DUPLICATE the arrow keys on both sides of the keyboard, then CTRL and ARROWS, would fall to hand no matter if you're a lefty or righty. At the end, as someone who goes back and forth between OSX and XP, I find no substantial advantage to two mouse buttons (EEEK!!! Can't believe I wrote that, but I don't, really)
I actually find the single mouse button, somehow purer, if not simpler, if that makes any sense. Perhaps Amorph, a hockey puck zealot, could explain! haha...
What I do think would be supremely useful, different, and ergonomic, would be to rethink the scroll wheel as an iPod type jog dial. I don't think it would be easy to incorporate that into the mouse, and probably not productive, but it would be something to have sitting on the keyboard (at least) Not just for scrolling documents, but for manipulating any number of sliders in graphic apps, and all sorts of color adjustment or frame by frame scrubbing, or audio manipulation especially in the iApps.
First, the older ones had physical buttons, so for the sake of this post, I'll be talking about the newer non-moving parts versions.
Of the touch sensitive areas (buttons) on the new iPods there are actually 3 distinct implementations, all with varying degrees of success.
4 small smooth plastic, depressed areas.
1 circular jog track with a frosted, matte feel.
1 raised smooth plastic area in the middle of the jog dial.
In my personal experience (only presented as such) I find that the surface that has had the best responsiveness, I'd dare say 100%, has been the matte jog dial.
Second is the raised center button.
The worst has been the 4 depressed smooth plastic holes.
The situation is that normal finger oils (the ones that smear up the silvery back or the iPod so easily) pile up over time and obscure input. Sometimes forward and back fail to work. Now a simple wipe of the iPod on your pants or shirt or a napkin or whatever of course cleans it up enough but the 4 depressed buttons are deep enough to not get cleaned fully.
I can assume that an iPod with all matte buttons would be far more successful at accurate input. I also think they should be raised but maybe not. I'd need to see and use it.
So, with these things in mind, let's assume that Apple comes out with a multibutton input device, assume they want to, assume they won't leapfrog ahead with some new paradigm altogether.
We can see that Apple has been playing with refining multi-button input for years - with the iPod. Also note Apple's moving away from moving parts: going optical, making the entire mouse body be the button (I imagine this means less parts; it does in the aesthetic sense), using touchsensitive surfaces instead of physical buttons on the Cube, displays, iPod.
I would imagine that Apple might not be so much anti-multibutton mice so much as anti-all prior incarnations of them.
I'm not going to say they are going to the iPod's circular jog dial on a mouse. I simply don't see it that literally. What I can see is a mouse whose body is identical to the current optical Apple mice except it will not rock; no physical rocker switch. (But I have problems with this; are users now so used to the entire mouse rocking?)
The left and right sides near the front are touchsensitive areas which the user can define as primary click or control click. Between them is a slightly depressed area with a matte finish. It is oblong and rounded at both ends and runs about 1.5 inches. The user can live scroll sliding their finger up and down the track. Clicking one end of the scroll track triggers page up and the other end page down. Press and hold either end triggers a smooth continuous scroll.
So, no physical buttons, uses same technology as iPod. Same mouse body. Adds nothing visually/aesthetically except a slight bezel strip.
Charge cradle in keyboard. Apologies to whoever also proposed this. It's kinda a no brainer if you can get beyond whether Apple will ever make a multi button mouse. The iPod proves that they are not incapable of making useful multibutton devices. But a mouse (in conjunction with Mac OS) is a far cry from controlling a handheld music player. I still bet Apple will keep the Mac at 1 button forever on principle. Although with the death of strict human interface guidelines who knows what "this" Apple will do tomorrow?
No, I meant that Apple will probably not put a circular jog dial on a mouse since it is far too awkward for anything but the thumb. Although if it was much smaller, like the size of a quarter coin it might be ok. I just think that a circular jog dial would cause too much movement.
The Kensington mouse above is the moving parts version of what I was talking about. I think Apple would make the unit entirely solid with no moving parts. Smooth plastic as it is now, but with the center strip slightly depressed and a matte finish for better tactile feedback.
The only thing then would be the feedback of the click (since I think it would not rock back and forward). Now imagine if it had the iPod's clicking sound via the same micro speaker so the click would be artificial. Hey, why not... Could even have 2 different click tones for each button, plus a scrolling sound.
This is coming from a guy that keeps his iPod flat next to his mouse....so I have experience in using the iPod as the mouse if only accidentally
Originally posted by wyntir The most likely answer is that they're pretty confusing to novice computer users. Even I, using two button mice for 5+ years, sometimes press the wrong button. (I know, I know, embarrassing.) And for someone who has never used a computer before, two buttons is about 200% more intimidating than just one. You remember those mouse tutorials Apple computers used to come with - a single button is confusing enough
So, are you saying Mac users can't count to two? What other excuse could you be making up for not having a two button mouse with scroll wheel?
Comments
Originally posted by reynard
You know if they sold a 2-button, scrolling mouse it would be a $100 anyway.
so true, so true
The existing pro mouse could easily be given this functionality by adding a scroll wheel and implementing a second "button" by using a rocking motion to have a forward "click" and "back" click.
This would leave the mouse buttonless but add the functionality of of three (you could also click the wheel) button mouse. Apple would still have something unique, yet functional.
Aphelion ...
I'm liking my one button mouse pad better and better each day. Click & Hold is a better solution than click & double click, much less strain when a lifetime of computing passes under your fingers, just learn a little patience and it's ultimately faster too, healthy hands equal faster typing and navigation. Seems like an apology, but it isn't.
Ctrl-Click vs. right mouse button. I'll say that it's convenient to have that extra button, but I find myself liking the Ctrl click, though on the laptop keyboard, that's virtually the same thing, everything falls to hand. If you type right, though, even on the desktop keyboard, everything should fall to hand. The ultimate power keyboard would DUPLICATE the arrow keys on both sides of the keyboard, then CTRL and ARROWS, would fall to hand no matter if you're a lefty or righty. At the end, as someone who goes back and forth between OSX and XP, I find no substantial advantage to two mouse buttons (EEEK!!! Can't believe I wrote that, but I don't, really)
I actually find the single mouse button, somehow purer, if not simpler, if that makes any sense. Perhaps Amorph, a hockey puck zealot, could explain! haha...
What I do think would be supremely useful, different, and ergonomic, would be to rethink the scroll wheel as an iPod type jog dial. I don't think it would be easy to incorporate that into the mouse, and probably not productive, but it would be something to have sitting on the keyboard (at least) Not just for scrolling documents, but for manipulating any number of sliders in graphic apps, and all sorts of color adjustment or frame by frame scrubbing, or audio manipulation especially in the iApps.
First, the older ones had physical buttons, so for the sake of this post, I'll be talking about the newer non-moving parts versions.
Of the touch sensitive areas (buttons) on the new iPods there are actually 3 distinct implementations, all with varying degrees of success.
- 4 small smooth plastic, depressed areas.
- 1 circular jog track with a frosted, matte feel.
- 1 raised smooth plastic area in the middle of the jog dial.
In my personal experience (only presented as such) I find that the surface that has had the best responsiveness, I'd dare say 100%, has been the matte jog dial.Second is the raised center button.
The worst has been the 4 depressed smooth plastic holes.
The situation is that normal finger oils (the ones that smear up the silvery back or the iPod so easily) pile up over time and obscure input. Sometimes forward and back fail to work. Now a simple wipe of the iPod on your pants or shirt or a napkin or whatever of course cleans it up enough but the 4 depressed buttons are deep enough to not get cleaned fully.
I can assume that an iPod with all matte buttons would be far more successful at accurate input. I also think they should be raised but maybe not. I'd need to see and use it.
So, with these things in mind, let's assume that Apple comes out with a multibutton input device, assume they want to, assume they won't leapfrog ahead with some new paradigm altogether.
We can see that Apple has been playing with refining multi-button input for years - with the iPod. Also note Apple's moving away from moving parts: going optical, making the entire mouse body be the button (I imagine this means less parts; it does in the aesthetic sense), using touchsensitive surfaces instead of physical buttons on the Cube, displays, iPod.
I would imagine that Apple might not be so much anti-multibutton mice so much as anti-all prior incarnations of them.
I'm not going to say they are going to the iPod's circular jog dial on a mouse. I simply don't see it that literally. What I can see is a mouse whose body is identical to the current optical Apple mice except it will not rock; no physical rocker switch. (But I have problems with this; are users now so used to the entire mouse rocking?)
The left and right sides near the front are touchsensitive areas which the user can define as primary click or control click. Between them is a slightly depressed area with a matte finish. It is oblong and rounded at both ends and runs about 1.5 inches. The user can live scroll sliding their finger up and down the track. Clicking one end of the scroll track triggers page up and the other end page down. Press and hold either end triggers a smooth continuous scroll.
So, no physical buttons, uses same technology as iPod. Same mouse body. Adds nothing visually/aesthetically except a slight bezel strip.
Charge cradle in keyboard. Apologies to whoever also proposed this. It's kinda a no brainer if you can get beyond whether Apple will ever make a multi button mouse. The iPod proves that they are not incapable of making useful multibutton devices. But a mouse (in conjunction with Mac OS) is a far cry from controlling a handheld music player. I still bet Apple will keep the Mac at 1 button forever on principle. Although with the death of strict human interface guidelines who knows what "this" Apple will do tomorrow?
Originally posted by johnq
I'm not going to say they are going to the iPod's circular jog dial on a mouse. I simply don't see it that literally.
Why not? Kensington already has something similiar:
http://www.kensington.com/html/1216.html#
Originally posted by Dave K.
Why not? Kensington already has something similiar:
http://www.kensington.com/html/1216.html#
No, I meant that Apple will probably not put a circular jog dial on a mouse since it is far too awkward for anything but the thumb. Although if it was much smaller, like the size of a quarter coin it might be ok. I just think that a circular jog dial would cause too much movement.
The Kensington mouse above is the moving parts version of what I was talking about. I think Apple would make the unit entirely solid with no moving parts. Smooth plastic as it is now, but with the center strip slightly depressed and a matte finish for better tactile feedback.
The only thing then would be the feedback of the click (since I think it would not rock back and forward). Now imagine if it had the iPod's clicking sound via the same micro speaker
This is coming from a guy that keeps his iPod flat next to his mouse....so I have experience in using the iPod as the mouse if only accidentally
Originally posted by wyntir The most likely answer is that they're pretty confusing to novice computer users. Even I, using two button mice for 5+ years, sometimes press the wrong button. (I know, I know, embarrassing.) And for someone who has never used a computer before, two buttons is about 200% more intimidating than just one. You remember those mouse tutorials Apple computers used to come with - a single button is confusing enough
So, are you saying Mac users can't count to two? What other excuse could you be making up for not having a two button mouse with scroll wheel?