I can't see a novel new feature which Apple could use to enter this market like the did with the iPod (first big hard disk MP3 player) so there is little point in entering here.
You don't consider hard drive based DV recording a novel new feature?
Actually, I consider HDD based DV recording to be a step backwards. Tapes are mor durable, reliable and replacable, oh and did I mention -- CHEAPER!!!
Tapes greatly increase the autonomy of the device, I'd say tapes are better for video.
Now, what would be interesting is an iPod as digital wallet, an app for your iPod that let it access mass storage USB or the particular drivers of popular models and DL the images over the USB straight to a photo directory on you iPod. You don't need color, you don't need to view the pics, just to know that they're there. Then you can blank you card and keep shooting. When you get home and dock your iPod, it launches iTunes and iPhoto and you can get to work.
Apple could make a camera and sell it, and perhaps spawn a limited range of cameras. But they would have to be reasonably priced (NOT cheaper) but better than other offerings in a significant way.
Actually, I consider HDD based DV recording to be a step backwards. Tapes are mor durable, reliable and replacable, oh and did I mention -- CHEAPER!!!
Sigh.
Why does everyone assume that a HD based camcorder forces anyone to give up tape? Yes, mini DVD tapes have many advantages, for some people. If that is your preferred method of video capture and archiving then several major camera manufacturers will be happy to accomodate you.
But, for a sizeable portion of consumers, tapes are a pain in the ass. HD capture combines still and video into one sealed box that anyone can operate. If Apple builds such a device they will sell a million of them, just like the iPod.
Don't like HD based camcorders? Don't buy one. Nobody's forcing you.
Uhh, relax, you want an HD based recorder? Go buy a high-end telecine solution. What level of compression are we dealing with? The storage capacity of a small drive will be limited and will require syncing with another device.
Tape just requires changing a tape.
TAPES DO NOT CONFUSE ANYONE! I guarantee you that more consumers will be daunted by syncing to a computer than they will by changing tapes!
HDD failure is something to consider, if it breaks down your camcorder is buggered. Tapes are far more reliable in the conditions where a camera is used.
This is the kind of person who would love an iCam. She wants an iPod style solution to her photography and videography needs. One box, one cable, no tapes, no external or removeable batteries, and most importantly the ability to choose still or video on the fly.
Current solutions are not anywhere near adequate. Spend one day with real people in the real world and you'll agree. There is a massive need for the first truly useable all in one camera. Apple will build it. It will be gorgeous. It will be drop dead simple to use. It will be on the cover of Time.
Yes, absolutely.
My mom is a Photoshop-based artist and yet I've hesitated to get her a digital camera. It took her years to get her head around the work flow she has now and she tends to ignore anything that would change it: more hassle than it's worth. Tried to get her going on Painter; forget it. Tried to get her going with better scanner software; forget it. Tried to get her going on OSX; forget it.
If she went digital cam it would be easier, cheaper, and faster. (and likely better quality than scanning in prints). The only way she is going to do that is if it is VERY easy and clean. Today's solutions are not.
Your taking video of an important event. Your baby suddenly does something cute and you wish you had a still photo. Just push the snapshot button. The video continues and a high quality still image is also recorded. Foveon allows this. That's what I want. There are pluses and minuses to both types of storage. Steve will have to convince me they made the right decision on storage.
When I said Foveon was alread kinda "consumerish" I refered to different arguments about price (the SD9 did debuted at 1800 USD, well down on 6MP D-SLR's of the time) and to arguments about smaller file sizes, it packs more detail into a smaller MP "rating" since each pixel is a full color job as opposed to a one channel only pixel. Cool, but not without problems, the sensor may not be capable of the same ISO sensitivities as bayer patterns since light has to pass through a much thicker depth in the sensor. Two, the sensor also requires processing, right now the sigma only shoots RAW, not good for consumers.
Video will probably stick with 3 separate sensors, and depending on what Camera makers do, stills might also stick largely with mosaic patterns (either bayer or superCCD). Foveon does become intriguing for combi-still/video devices.
But, in reality it isn't neccessary even for video. There are plenty of consumer video cameras with only one CCD that and you don't need a Foveon to provide dual mode functionality. The shutter system is more important actually, almost any 2/3rd" video sensor can be used for stills aswell.
-Built-in removable 10 GB 1.8" iPod-type hard drive
Please pass the crack.
Quote:
Originally posted by MFfan310
-3x Carl Zeiss optical zoom lens
-MPEG-2/MPEG-4 video recording capability
-1.8" LCD display
-Included FireWire dock
-Total integration with iMovie, iPhoto
-$499
Seriously man, I'm jonesing here, and whatever you're smoking looks to be primo.
Quote:
Originally posted by MFfan310
Also, as part of the introduction, you'll get 50 free iPhoto prints from Kodak with the purchase of an iShot!
Accessories:
-iShot Hard Disk Cards ($99 for 10 GB, $149 for 15 GB, $249 for 30 GB)
-iShot Printer Dock-a dye-sub dedicated photo printer for the iShot similar to Kodak's, but it can print up to 8x10 photos ($249)
-iShot Photo Paper Packs for Printer Dock in glossy or matte-available in 4x6 and 8x10 sizes (prices vary based on number of sheeets and paper size)
Sounds cool, huh?
Why $499? Apple could sell a lot more if they priced it at $99. Oh, and why not have unlimited iPhoto prints? Why just 50? You people just don't get it. <sigh>
Why $499? Apple could sell a lot more if they priced it at $99. Oh, and why not have unlimited iPhoto prints? Why just 50? You people just don't get it. <sigh>
He forgot to post the 'one more thing spec':
The $499 iShot has a Porn-O-Vision? setting. With it, the Foveon combines optical and digital technology for near perfect clothes removal of all subjects. It'll even take off an extra few pounds.
With all due respect to EP, I just don't see a HD-based video camera as a practical alternative. Not for pros, not for amateurs.
Anyone who's ever worked with DV will tell you that DV takes up lots of space. Who wants to go through the hassle of shuffling off hours of video from your camera every time you want to go shoot something else? Remember that capturing video happens in realtime, so if you have 2 hours of video on your camera it will take 2 hours to pull it off. And once it's on your Mac it still takes up LOTS of space, until you archive it...which is painfully slow even with a 2X DVD burner.
No, you cannot compare MP3s & digital stills with digital video. Video takes up thousands of times as much space. Not to metion the extra power and weight requirements of a HD. I'm sorry but I really believe that tape -- or someone other cheap, reliable media -- is going to be with us for a while.
I'm sorry but I really believe that tape -- or someone other cheap, reliable media -- is going to be with us for a while
I'm sure they could come up with some sort of suitable alternative. The hard disk in the iPod isn't particularly huge for 30Gb. Most people would struggle to fill that, even on a long vacation surely?
Okay, I realise that it is still rather large compared with most digital camcorders, but I'm sure they could make a device around the same size as two iPods stuck together in the not too distant future? Make it in the same finish as the G4 PowerBook, and they could be onto a winner - make the hard disk ejectable for easy replacement as well. I like the sound of this the more I think about it!
It might cost a bit more, but Apple could probably design the cameras with a custom drive bay/sled that is based on FireWire (custom connector though) so that it is Hot swapable. This would answer the need to swap media out on the road, without requiring a computer present on the trip.
So people should spend hundreds on an extra HD when they can get blank tapes for $6?
I'm sure Apple could make a swappable HD. I'm sure they could make them smaller and lighter and lower-powered. But why? We all have HDs in our Macs and we all know the simple truth; no matter how big they are they are never big enough.
But HD volume isn't really the issue. Apple could make a 500GB HD the size of a matchbox for $20 and it wouldn't matter. The question is who wants to move hours and hours of video between the HD on their camera and the HD on their Mac when they can just pop in a blank tape?
Comments
Originally posted by G_Warren
I can't see a novel new feature which Apple could use to enter this market like the did with the iPod (first big hard disk MP3 player) so there is little point in entering here.
You don't consider hard drive based DV recording a novel new feature?
Tapes greatly increase the autonomy of the device, I'd say tapes are better for video.
Now, what would be interesting is an iPod as digital wallet, an app for your iPod that let it access mass storage USB or the particular drivers of popular models and DL the images over the USB straight to a photo directory on you iPod. You don't need color, you don't need to view the pics, just to know that they're there. Then you can blank you card and keep shooting. When you get home and dock your iPod, it launches iTunes and iPhoto and you can get to work.
Apple could make a camera and sell it, and perhaps spawn a limited range of cameras. But they would have to be reasonably priced (NOT cheaper) but better than other offerings in a significant way.
Originally posted by Matsu
Actually, I consider HDD based DV recording to be a step backwards. Tapes are mor durable, reliable and replacable, oh and did I mention -- CHEAPER!!!
Sigh.
Why does everyone assume that a HD based camcorder forces anyone to give up tape? Yes, mini DVD tapes have many advantages, for some people. If that is your preferred method of video capture and archiving then several major camera manufacturers will be happy to accomodate you.
But, for a sizeable portion of consumers, tapes are a pain in the ass. HD capture combines still and video into one sealed box that anyone can operate. If Apple builds such a device they will sell a million of them, just like the iPod.
Don't like HD based camcorders? Don't buy one. Nobody's forcing you.
Tape just requires changing a tape.
TAPES DO NOT CONFUSE ANYONE! I guarantee you that more consumers will be daunted by syncing to a computer than they will by changing tapes!
HDD failure is something to consider, if it breaks down your camcorder is buggered. Tapes are far more reliable in the conditions where a camera is used.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
This is the kind of person who would love an iCam. She wants an iPod style solution to her photography and videography needs. One box, one cable, no tapes, no external or removeable batteries, and most importantly the ability to choose still or video on the fly.
Current solutions are not anywhere near adequate. Spend one day with real people in the real world and you'll agree. There is a massive need for the first truly useable all in one camera. Apple will build it. It will be gorgeous. It will be drop dead simple to use. It will be on the cover of Time.
Yes, absolutely.
My mom is a Photoshop-based artist and yet I've hesitated to get her a digital camera. It took her years to get her head around the work flow she has now and she tends to ignore anything that would change it: more hassle than it's worth. Tried to get her going on Painter; forget it. Tried to get her going with better scanner software; forget it. Tried to get her going on OSX; forget it.
If she went digital cam it would be easier, cheaper, and faster. (and likely better quality than scanning in prints). The only way she is going to do that is if it is VERY easy and clean. Today's solutions are not.
Video will probably stick with 3 separate sensors, and depending on what Camera makers do, stills might also stick largely with mosaic patterns (either bayer or superCCD). Foveon does become intriguing for combi-still/video devices.
But, in reality it isn't neccessary even for video. There are plenty of consumer video cameras with only one CCD that and you don't need a Foveon to provide dual mode functionality. The shutter system is more important actually, almost any 2/3rd" video sensor can be used for stills aswell.
The Apple iShot
-Foveon X3 CMOS sensor
-Built-in removable 10 GB 1.8" iPod-type hard drive
-3x Carl Zeiss optical zoom lens
-MPEG-2/MPEG-4 video recording capability
-1.8" LCD display
-Included FireWire dock
-Total integration with iMovie, iPhoto
-$499
Also, as part of the introduction, you'll get 50 free iPhoto prints from Kodak with the purchase of an iShot!
Accessories:
-iShot Hard Disk Cards ($99 for 10 GB, $149 for 15 GB, $249 for 30 GB)
-iShot Printer Dock-a dye-sub dedicated photo printer for the iShot similar to Kodak's, but it can print up to 8x10 photos ($249)
-iShot Photo Paper Packs for Printer Dock in glossy or matte-available in 4x6 and 8x10 sizes (prices vary based on number of sheeets and paper size)
Sounds cool, huh?
Originally posted by MFfan310
OK, here we go again:
The Apple iShot
-Foveon X3 CMOS sensor
-Built-in removable 10 GB 1.8" iPod-type hard drive
Please pass the crack.
Originally posted by MFfan310
-3x Carl Zeiss optical zoom lens
-MPEG-2/MPEG-4 video recording capability
-1.8" LCD display
-Included FireWire dock
-Total integration with iMovie, iPhoto
-$499
Seriously man, I'm jonesing here, and whatever you're smoking looks to be primo.
Originally posted by MFfan310
Also, as part of the introduction, you'll get 50 free iPhoto prints from Kodak with the purchase of an iShot!
Accessories:
-iShot Hard Disk Cards ($99 for 10 GB, $149 for 15 GB, $249 for 30 GB)
-iShot Printer Dock-a dye-sub dedicated photo printer for the iShot similar to Kodak's, but it can print up to 8x10 photos ($249)
-iShot Photo Paper Packs for Printer Dock in glossy or matte-available in 4x6 and 8x10 sizes (prices vary based on number of sheeets and paper size)
Sounds cool, huh?
Why $499? Apple could sell a lot more if they priced it at $99. Oh, and why not have unlimited iPhoto prints? Why just 50? You people just don't get it. <sigh>
-DCQ
Originally posted by DCQ
Why $499? Apple could sell a lot more if they priced it at $99. Oh, and why not have unlimited iPhoto prints? Why just 50? You people just don't get it. <sigh>
He forgot to post the 'one more thing spec':
The $499 iShot has a Porn-O-Vision? setting. With it, the Foveon combines optical and digital technology for near perfect clothes removal of all subjects. It'll even take off an extra few pounds.
iShot without Porn-O-Vision? is only $299.
Originally posted by MFfan310
-Built-in removable 10 GB 1.8" iPod-type hard drive
Isn't "built-in removeable" a contradiction in terms? Hey, at least Matsu could have a stack of hard drives to replace his stack of DV tapes.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Isn't "built-in removeable" a contradiction in terms? Hey, at least Matsu could have a stack of hard drives to replace his stack of DV tapes.
-DCQ
Anyone who's ever worked with DV will tell you that DV takes up lots of space. Who wants to go through the hassle of shuffling off hours of video from your camera every time you want to go shoot something else? Remember that capturing video happens in realtime, so if you have 2 hours of video on your camera it will take 2 hours to pull it off. And once it's on your Mac it still takes up LOTS of space, until you archive it...which is painfully slow even with a 2X DVD burner.
No, you cannot compare MP3s & digital stills with digital video. Video takes up thousands of times as much space. Not to metion the extra power and weight requirements of a HD. I'm sorry but I really believe that tape -- or someone other cheap, reliable media -- is going to be with us for a while.
I'm sorry but I really believe that tape -- or someone other cheap, reliable media -- is going to be with us for a while
I'm sure they could come up with some sort of suitable alternative. The hard disk in the iPod isn't particularly huge for 30Gb. Most people would struggle to fill that, even on a long vacation surely?
Okay, I realise that it is still rather large compared with most digital camcorders, but I'm sure they could make a device around the same size as two iPods stuck together in the not too distant future? Make it in the same finish as the G4 PowerBook, and they could be onto a winner - make the hard disk ejectable for easy replacement as well. I like the sound of this the more I think about it!
I'm sure Apple could make a swappable HD. I'm sure they could make them smaller and lighter and lower-powered. But why? We all have HDs in our Macs and we all know the simple truth; no matter how big they are they are never big enough.
But HD volume isn't really the issue. Apple could make a 500GB HD the size of a matchbox for $20 and it wouldn't matter. The question is who wants to move hours and hours of video between the HD on their camera and the HD on their Mac when they can just pop in a blank tape?