Let's Debate: The Case FOR and AGAINST

2

Comments

  • Reply 20 of 41
    C'mon, would you trust a website inspired by a soap opera?



    You are part of that soap opera buddy, you posted on Al!
  • Reply 22 of 41
    This makes so damn much sense:



    iMacs: Apollo G4, ~1 GHz



    Powermacs: G5, 1, 1.2, 1.4 GHz.



    Titanium? Perhaps it gets the Apollo at next revision, but not at MWSF.



    iBook? Sahara beckons.



    G3 iMacs would be so lame. All they would amount to is a new display, new case, same old motherboard...yawn. Apple will want to differentiate the iMacs from other computers, and the G4 is the way to do it. It's time, to start advertising the G4's capabilities. And didn't Jobs say that in 2002 the iMac would be getting the superdrive? Far as I know the superdrive needs altivec in order to burn at reasonable speeds. So there we have it, a high end, uber-iMac priced to go at $1700 (but it can burn DVDs!)





    If the powermacs go G5, then it would really ice the GHz cake if Apple would put a damn 2nd drive bay in the stinkin' case! It's the best case in the world, EXCEPT! EXCEPT1, for having no extra drive bays.



    I'm sure that this is because Apple wants to reap profits from Firewire sales. Since Apple gets royalities on Firewire, they purposely screw Powermac buyers by leaving out a second drive bay. Those bastards.
  • Reply 23 of 41
    iBook? Sahara beckons.



    WE WILL SEE A LARGE iBook SPEED BUMP. Education is in their DNA.



    Riddle: DNA I SEE + Sahara = *%) Mhz.
  • Reply 24 of 41
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:

    <strong>KidRed writes....







    ummm, no. MOT is losing money like everyone else. No one is going to buy them out. MOT is, overall, an unbelievably successful company. They had been profitable EVERY year for the last like 15 years without fail. These are their first losses in a long, long time. They will come back....though they still piss me off.</strong><hr></blockquote>





    This is not my opinion, this was a AP news article. (can't find the link) Moto is looking to be bought out. They are looking to drop their semiconductor division to be more appealing to a potential buyer.
  • Reply 25 of 41
    F*ck Motorola. They've put Apple in the sh*tter.



    I wish I could throw plastic beer bottles at them!
  • Reply 26 of 41
    A bit off the topic but does anybody have access to Audiogalaxy.com? I need the Rudy Theme song for an iMovie and i cant get it!!!!!
  • Reply 27 of 41
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,997member
    [quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

    <strong>





    This is not my opinion, this was a AP news article. (can't find the link) Moto is looking to be bought out. They are looking to drop their semiconductor division to be more appealing to a potential buyer.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    They may sell of semiconductors. MOT itself is not going to be bought out. No way.
  • Reply 28 of 41
    I could see Apple/IBM working it out so that IBM can take whatever assets they need from MOT's semiconductor business and in turn become Apple's primary source for processors. There's no reason for Apple to take on the full cost of going in-house with development when IBM is, frankly, wonderful at it (for a PC company, I really like IBM). Without MOT to strongarm them onto the back burner, I think they could really make these chips take off - and that is the answer, not selling out to AMD or something like that.



    -S
  • Reply 29 of 41
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    "I could see Apple/IBM working it out so that IBM can take whatever assets they need from MOT's semiconductor business and in turn become Apple's primary source for processors. "



    Makes sense to me, why hasn't it happened? and happened a long time ago. There must be some reason. Maybe we don't know everything that goes on behind closed doors.
  • Reply 30 of 41
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    [quote]Teenagers whose connections are huffing whippits while masturbating. Whatever.<hr></blockquote>



    you should talk



    If you don't want to believe me... don't. why should I care but don't try insulting me. I never just come out and say I know someone who knows something. In fact the last time I did was back in 2000 with Mac OS X and everything I said was correct except for FCP being compatible in Classic. I wouldn't say something if I didn't trust in it. believe me, the last thing I need is to be embarrased like I was with the "Mercury Rising" thing
  • Reply 31 of 41
    anandanand Posts: 285member
    Hey people, do you remember that movie that As The Apple Turns says mentions the G5 - it was called "Kate and something" ... well everyone said that how could that come out before Macworld - Jobs would do a Balmer. Well I just heard that that movie was supposed to be released in late Febuary - not now. I wonder if that means anything!
  • Reply 32 of 41
    ptrashptrash Posts: 296member
    The G5 seems like a very likely introduction for MWSF. I think it will be here because of the longer keynote and total Apple secrecy LOCKDOWN.



    Outside of these boards (and a few other place Apple enthusiasts confregate), how many people really care about the G5? These are going to be expensive machines, selling to the top portion of Apple's market. I don't know what percentage of Apple's sales go to the Powermac, but I'm skeptical that the introduction of a faster processor would be the cause of all of this hullabaloo. Another poster pointed out that the big consumer elctronics show starts on Tuesday, Jan 8 and I'm really starting to wonder if we're going to see a the introduction of a completely new product. We know that a Taiwanese manafacturer has made some allusion as to getting an Apple contract for new LCD screens, and lot's of people have assumed that this points to an LCD Imac. But do we know the size of these screens? Could these be the screens for the long-rumored succesor to the Newton? If Apple introduces a new PDA like thingie I really doubt that they'd put out the G5 too.



    The other issue is the secrecy lockdown. Other's have raised the point that the introduction of new processors requires extensive bug and compatibility testing. Yet Apple is supposedly doing all of the G5 testing in-house, which we assume is to prevent leaks. For Apple to release a processor with a substantially different architecture, they have to be pretty sure of the new product's stability-or risk a public relations nightmare. Now if they had the thing for a good amount of time, I could see it being a possiblity that they've checked the thing out. But considering that the rumor sites have only just reported Motorola getting the bugs out of their manafacturing process, it just doesn't seem likely (and the G5 rumors have only just surfaced in the last few months)enough time has elapsed for a quality testing program to be completed. Could it be that the reason they haven't sent the new boxes out is becasue they weren't done testing in house, and the secrecy we've attributed to trying to keep the lid on the G5 development is really about the new product?



    [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: Ptrash ]</p>
  • Reply 33 of 41
    If Apple introduces a new PDA like thingie I really doubt that they'd put out the G5 too.



    Jesus Christ! Do you really think one products release has anything to do with anothers? Apple releases products when they are finished and when the lifecycle of that product is over so they can replace it with the new one. Regarding new products that are not just updates, Apple can release them anytime they want to after their completion.



    apple is not going to talk about ONE product for 2.5 hours, are they?
  • Reply 34 of 41
    That's a very good list of Pro's. I want to think we'll see the G5, but I'm terrified I'll get my hopes up and they'll be dashed.



    I'm particularly worried about the G5 and associated stuff being rushed out. If there are bugs, serious incompatabilities, etc. I see it being a crusher for Apple. The timeline we're seeing doesn't seem to give enough time for testing.



    Asfor a MOT buyout, that's real questionable. The whole company CAN'T be bought. It's one of the 10 or 20 biggest companies in the world. Nobody is big enough to buy them, be it GE, MSFT, or Oracle. Intel might be able to swing a merger, but there's no reason to and anti-trust would never allow it. AMD could ally even more, etc.



    What MOT is looking to do is sell their chip making business. The fabs are what are costing them, and according to guys like Eskimo they suck at fabbing anyway. However, IBM doesn't want much from them. It already has better fabs. They're the high-end IP people. IBM isn't a PC maker, they're a server, mainframe and services company. Embedded stuff isn't what they want.



    This is interesting and tricky, but unfortunately none of my people in Motorola are placed to know anything about this kind of stuff.
  • Reply 35 of 41
    eskimoeskimo Posts: 474member
    [quote]Originally posted by KD5MDK:

    <strong>

    What MOT is looking to do is sell their chip making business. The fabs are what are costing them, and according to guys like Eskimo they suck at fabbing anyway. However, IBM doesn't want much from them. It already has better fabs. They're the high-end IP people. IBM isn't a PC maker, they're a server, mainframe and services company. Embedded stuff isn't what they want.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I just read they are moving to close another fab now. Now they recently closed MOS 1 and 2 this past summer I believe it was. MOS 8 is already scheduled for shutdown. What does this leave them? MOS 11, 12, and 13. So are they going to shutdown 11 and be left with just 2 fabs for MOS logic such as CPUs? Doesn't sound positive to me. I'd say if Moto isn't the partner announced to be building a 300mm fab with AMD then they are really getting ready to sell their SPS unit.
  • Reply 36 of 41
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,997member
    [quote]Originally posted by KD5MDK:

    <strong>That's a very good list of Pro's. I want to think we'll see the G5, but I'm terrified I'll get my hopes up and they'll be dashed.



    I'm particularly worried about the G5 and associated stuff being rushed out. If there are bugs, serious incompatabilities, etc. I see it being a crusher for Apple. The timeline we're seeing doesn't seem to give enough time for testing.



    Asfor a MOT buyout, that's real questionable. The whole company CAN'T be bought. It's one of the 10 or 20 biggest companies in the world. Nobody is big enough to buy them, be it GE, MSFT, or Oracle. Intel might be able to swing a merger, but there's no reason to and anti-trust would never allow it. AMD could ally even more, etc.



    What MOT is looking to do is sell their chip making business. The fabs are what are costing them, and according to guys like Eskimo they suck at fabbing anyway. However, IBM doesn't want much from them. It already has better fabs. They're the high-end IP people. IBM isn't a PC maker, they're a server, mainframe and services company. Embedded stuff isn't what they want.



    This is interesting and tricky, but unfortunately none of my people in Motorola are placed to know anything about this kind of stuff.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yup. MOT is huge. It is their semiconductor unit that is a pile right now...esp in fab process. The whole company is NOT going to be bought out.
  • Reply 37 of 41
    [quote]Originally posted by apple_otaku:

    <strong>Note the keynote is only 2 hours.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    That's not what was said when Apple announced that Steve's kenote would be the 7th instead of the 8th. They said he would speak for 2 1/2 hours. This would indicate he has alot to talk about.



    I say we're gettin' a G5!
  • Reply 38 of 41
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,997member
    Also, I just realized that The Register has had multiple sources on the G5, not just one. Go check it out.



    Sounds like at least two major ones and a few minor ones.....



    PM G5. mmmmmm.....PowerMac.
  • Reply 39 of 41
    crusadercrusader Posts: 1,129member
    For:

    I want one



    Against:

    It's apple. Who knows?
  • Reply 40 of 41
    msleemslee Posts: 143member
    JD:



    You are right.



    The best thing for Apple would be to throw G5 into the Powermac line, Apollo into the iMac (or whatever succeeds the iMac in that market), Apollo into the TiBook, and let IBM go balls out with the Sahara into the G3



    Now, obviously, this is predicated on how Motorola has faired with chip fabbing.'



    This is totally conjecture, but I'd imagine that Motorola took it in the eye after the G4 speed decrease debacle. No doubt they have contacted other firms specializing in fabbing chips (or acquired experts who have mastery over this area) to attempt to avoid any major problems.



    But I don't know about this AMD connection, simply because IBM already has a past relationship with both Apple (good) and Motorola (probably more competitive at the corporate level). But more importantly, IBM has a proven track record of compentancy in several important core areas:

    1.) Fabbing. IBM has great foundries

    2.) Advanced Research-SOI, development of Power4

    3.) Application of these advanced technologies to high-end products (aka execution): Power4

    4.)Not laying off loads of employees (important for a strategic partner).



    I would imagine that IBM's scientists and engineers probably had a chance to assist Motorola in designing this chip and the processes meant to make them. Lets hope that this will allow Motorola to implent manufacturing processes that will be more profitable, and give Motorola the incentive to stay in RISC-design business. Furthermore, lets hope that the combined expertise of IBM and Motorola (which is pretty f*cking formidable, IMO) leads to some powerful chips that don't require small fission devices for power.



    I really do hope to see G5 this January. I wouldn't buy one (no way am I going first generation), but I would be first in line to get an Apollo equipped Combo LCD iMac.



    Best of luck to everyone!



    [ 12-22-2001: Message edited by: mslee ]</p>
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