Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
In the real world (as opposed to universities) any real application involves hundreds of people. They all contain atrocities such as this and worse.
Yes, because any group of hundreds of people is going to contain some lazy idiots. Period.
There's zero excuse for such coding practices, whether it's one person, or a hundred.
As the team size scales, standards and code reviews become much more critical to make sure crap like this doesn't seep in. You handhold the perps, and they either get it and become useful members of the team, or you boot them the hell out because they're just going to cause you more trouble than they're worth.
And please, no more disparaging remarks about ivory towers, eh? I spent many years in the 'real world', and frankly, it's the same no matter where you go, sorry. To be honest, I found it nauseating that the 'professionals' frequently had worse standards and practices than the students taking introductory courses. "Yay! I'm out of the training grounds, and into the real world, where people *know* what they're doing, where they know *better*, where... hey, this code SUCKS!"
And please, no more disparaging remarks about ivory towers, eh? I spent many years in the 'real world', and frankly, it's the same no matter where you go, sorry. To be honest, I found it nauseating that the 'professionals' frequently had worse standards and practices than the students taking introductory courses. "Yay! I'm out of the training grounds, and into the real world, where people *know* what they're doing, where they know *better*, where... hey, this code SUCKS!"
And how!
There are definitely some good commercial programmers out there, but the sheer amount of bad VB code and unintelligible "C++" is terrifying.
(I'll probably launch into a jeremiad about C++ shortly after AirSluf finishes his against so-called engineers. )
Oh god, don't get me started about coders (I refuse to call them programmers, engineers, or architects) that run C code through a C++ compiler and call it 'OO'... "But it *compiles*!" *THWACK*
Yes, because any group of hundreds of people is going to contain some lazy idiots. Period.
And since any group contains them, all app code contains worse atrocities.
Quote:
As the team size scales, standards and code reviews become much more critical to make sure crap like this doesn't seep in. You handhold the perps, and they either get it and become useful members of the team, or you boot them the hell out because they're just going to cause you more trouble than they're worth.
Or else you make them "code owners", "technology leaders" or some other fancy title.
Quote:
And please, no more disparaging remarks about ivory towers, eh? I spent many years in the 'real world', and frankly, it's the same no matter where you go, sorry. To be honest, I found it nauseating that the 'professionals' frequently had worse standards and practices than the students taking introductory courses. "Yay! I'm out of the training grounds, and into the real world, where people *know* what they're doing, where they know *better*, where... hey, this code SUCKS!"
Nothing disparaging. It's just that in the real world, due to time constraints and interdependency, code reviews and standards are never enforced, and tests miss a lot. In the ivory tower, work is either individual, or done by very small teams, so interdependecy is less of a problem.
If the code works, but it sucks, nobody will change it. The powers that be will deem the programmer's time better spent on new features. Like the saying goes, there's always time to do it over, but never time to do it right. In the ivory tower you do it better, because there's usually no "next version". Even if there is, it will be done by someone else.
And since any group contains them, all app code contains worse atrocities.
Oh, the stories I could tell...
"Look, you do that, and when the plane crosses the equator, it will *FLIP OVER*, and the pilot is going to be *DAMNED* annoyed..." <six months later> "Told ya." <-- never hard code your coordinate transforms assuming northern hemisphere.
Quote:
Or else you make them "code owners", "technology leaders" or some other fancy title.
The 'crap floats' school of management, eh?
Quote:
Nothing disparaging. It's just that in the real world, due to time constraints and interdependency, code reviews and standards are never enforced, and tests miss a lot. In the ivory tower, work is either individual, or done by very small teams, so interdependecy is less of a problem.
If the code works, but it sucks, nobody will change it. The powers that be will deem the programmer's time better spent on new features. Like the saying goes, there's always time to do it over, but never time to do it right. In the ivory tower you do it better, because there's usually no "next version". Even if there is, it will be done by someone else.
Actually, I find that ivory tower == real world for such things. It's no different, except *maybe* in academia, people will stop and entertain a new idea or two without going all ape about it thinking it's going to save the company within a week...
"Look, you do that, and when the plane crosses the equator, it will *FLIP OVER*, and the pilot is going to be *DAMNED* annoyed..." <six months later> "Told ya." <-- never hard code your coordinate transforms assuming northern hemisphere.
I think that plane flipping over story is an urban legend. Here's my favorite true story. I once did a code review for some transaction that the profiler showed was taking a long time. It was written in PL/I, so I'll give you the C equivalent of what I found there:
Code:
while(x>=30) x = x - 30;
You want to talk about laziness? This guy couldn't be bothered to look up the remainder operator in the PL/I Language Reference Manual located[list=1][*]on his shelf, and...[*]in online documentation right at his terminal.[/list=1]
I don't work there anymore, but last I heard, he made team leader. Oh, well, that's what you get working for the government.
Kickaha and Amorph couldn't moderate themselves out of a paper bag. Abdicate responsibility and succumb to idiocy. Two years of letting a member make personal attacks against others, then stepping aside when someone won't put up with it. Not only that but go ahead and shut down my posting priviledges but not the one making the attacks. Not even the common decency to abide by their warning (afer three days of absorbing personal attacks with no mods in sight), just shut my posting down and then say it might happen later if a certian line is crossed. Bullshit flag is flying, I won't abide by lying and coddling of liars who go off-site, create accounts differing in a single letter from my handle with the express purpose to decieve and then claim here that I did it. Everyone be warned, kim kap sol is a lying, deceitful poster.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
I think that plane flipping over story is an urban legend. Here's my favorite true story. I once did a code review for some transaction that the profiler showed was taking a long time. It was written in PL/I, so I'll give you the C equivalent of what I found there:
Code:
while(x>=30) x = x - 30;
You want to talk about laziness? This guy couldn't be bothered to look up the remainder operator in the PL/I Language Reference Manual located[list=1][*]on his shelf, and...[*]in online documentation right at his terminal.[/list=1]
I don't work there anymore, but last I heard, he made team leader. Oh, well, that's what you get working for the government.
One of my favorite bits of code that doesn't involve a Byzantine setup to explain:
Code:
if (someConditionIsMet) {
// set the member variable here
}
That made it all the way to QA before I reported the rather amusing bug it introduced.
That's what you get working for the private sector.
I think that plane flipping over story is an urban legend.
It's not. But... the urban legend is an exaggeration. It happened in a *simulator* at Evans & Sutherland, where I worked. It incorporated a simulation of a new guidance system from the Air Force for veracity. The 'engineer' who wrote *our* code hard-coded Northern Hemisphere, and when it got the data from the guidance 'system'...
*FLIP*
The urban legend is that it actually happened in flight.
The pilot didn't care, he had to change his shorts anyway.
the os wont be 64 bit untill there are more 64 bit processors
Not picking on you, but opinions about when OS X will be 64-bits keep coming up and one thing is never defined. What do you mean by a 64-bit OS? Everyone has something different in mind about what makes an OS 64-bits, but nobody says what it is.
1. The OS is all 64-bit code and will only run 64-bit applications. If old 32-bit applications are run, they requires some kind of emulation to support them.
2. The OS is all 64-bit code but it runs both 32 and 64-bit applications.
3. The OS is a mix of 64 and 32-bit code but all performance critical code is 64-bit and it runs both 32 and 64-bit applications.
4. The OS has the minimum of 64-bit code, but enough to fully support all 64-bit applications. It runs both 32 and 64-bit applications with no significant performance hit, but the OS itself may not be running at top efficiency.
5. The OS runs 32-bit application but there is not complete support for 64-bit applications.
I believe Panther will be at level 4, and eventually it will move to level 3 or 2 and stay there. I personally would say that anything at level 4 or higher is 64-bit. You may say something different.
Comments
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
Originally posted by synp
In the real world (as opposed to universities) any real application involves hundreds of people. They all contain atrocities such as this and worse.
Yes, because any group of hundreds of people is going to contain some lazy idiots. Period.
There's zero excuse for such coding practices, whether it's one person, or a hundred.
As the team size scales, standards and code reviews become much more critical to make sure crap like this doesn't seep in. You handhold the perps, and they either get it and become useful members of the team, or you boot them the hell out because they're just going to cause you more trouble than they're worth.
And please, no more disparaging remarks about ivory towers, eh? I spent many years in the 'real world', and frankly, it's the same no matter where you go, sorry. To be honest, I found it nauseating that the 'professionals' frequently had worse standards and practices than the students taking introductory courses. "Yay! I'm out of the training grounds, and into the real world, where people *know* what they're doing, where they know *better*, where... hey, this code SUCKS!"
Originally posted by Kickaha
And please, no more disparaging remarks about ivory towers, eh? I spent many years in the 'real world', and frankly, it's the same no matter where you go, sorry. To be honest, I found it nauseating that the 'professionals' frequently had worse standards and practices than the students taking introductory courses. "Yay! I'm out of the training grounds, and into the real world, where people *know* what they're doing, where they know *better*, where... hey, this code SUCKS!"
And how!
There are definitely some good commercial programmers out there, but the sheer amount of bad VB code and unintelligible "C++" is terrifying.
(I'll probably launch into a jeremiad about C++ shortly after AirSluf finishes his against so-called engineers.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Yes, because any group of hundreds of people is going to contain some lazy idiots. Period.
And since any group contains them, all app code contains worse atrocities.
As the team size scales, standards and code reviews become much more critical to make sure crap like this doesn't seep in. You handhold the perps, and they either get it and become useful members of the team, or you boot them the hell out because they're just going to cause you more trouble than they're worth.
Or else you make them "code owners", "technology leaders" or some other fancy title.
And please, no more disparaging remarks about ivory towers, eh? I spent many years in the 'real world', and frankly, it's the same no matter where you go, sorry. To be honest, I found it nauseating that the 'professionals' frequently had worse standards and practices than the students taking introductory courses. "Yay! I'm out of the training grounds, and into the real world, where people *know* what they're doing, where they know *better*, where... hey, this code SUCKS!"
Nothing disparaging. It's just that in the real world, due to time constraints and interdependency, code reviews and standards are never enforced, and tests miss a lot. In the ivory tower, work is either individual, or done by very small teams, so interdependecy is less of a problem.
If the code works, but it sucks, nobody will change it. The powers that be will deem the programmer's time better spent on new features. Like the saying goes, there's always time to do it over, but never time to do it right. In the ivory tower you do it better, because there's usually no "next version". Even if there is, it will be done by someone else.
Originally posted by synp
And since any group contains them, all app code contains worse atrocities.
Oh, the stories I could tell...
"Look, you do that, and when the plane crosses the equator, it will *FLIP OVER*, and the pilot is going to be *DAMNED* annoyed..." <six months later> "Told ya." <-- never hard code your coordinate transforms assuming northern hemisphere.
Or else you make them "code owners", "technology leaders" or some other fancy title.
The 'crap floats' school of management, eh?
Nothing disparaging. It's just that in the real world, due to time constraints and interdependency, code reviews and standards are never enforced, and tests miss a lot. In the ivory tower, work is either individual, or done by very small teams, so interdependecy is less of a problem.
If the code works, but it sucks, nobody will change it. The powers that be will deem the programmer's time better spent on new features. Like the saying goes, there's always time to do it over, but never time to do it right. In the ivory tower you do it better, because there's usually no "next version". Even if there is, it will be done by someone else.
Actually, I find that ivory tower == real world for such things. It's no different, except *maybe* in academia, people will stop and entertain a new idea or two without going all ape about it thinking it's going to save the company within a week...
Originally posted by Kickaha
Oh, the stories I could tell...
"Look, you do that, and when the plane crosses the equator, it will *FLIP OVER*, and the pilot is going to be *DAMNED* annoyed..." <six months later> "Told ya." <-- never hard code your coordinate transforms assuming northern hemisphere.
I think that plane flipping over story is an urban legend. Here's my favorite true story. I once did a code review for some transaction that the profiler showed was taking a long time. It was written in PL/I, so I'll give you the C equivalent of what I found there:
while(x>=30) x = x - 30;
You want to talk about laziness? This guy couldn't be bothered to look up the remainder operator in the PL/I Language Reference Manual located[list=1][*]on his shelf, and...[*]in online documentation right at his terminal.[/list=1]
I don't work there anymore, but last I heard, he made team leader. Oh, well, that's what you get working for the government.
Now I guess they should have banned me rather than just shut off posting priviledges, because kickaha and Amorph definitely aren't going to like being called to task when they thought they had it all ignored *cough* *cough* I mean under control. Just a couple o' tools.
Don't worry, as soon as my work resetting my posts is done I'll disappear forever.
Originally posted by synp
I think that plane flipping over story is an urban legend. Here's my favorite true story. I once did a code review for some transaction that the profiler showed was taking a long time. It was written in PL/I, so I'll give you the C equivalent of what I found there:
Code:
while(x>=30) x = x - 30;
You want to talk about laziness? This guy couldn't be bothered to look up the remainder operator in the PL/I Language Reference Manual located[list=1][*]on his shelf, and...[*]in online documentation right at his terminal.[/list=1]
I don't work there anymore, but last I heard, he made team leader. Oh, well, that's what you get working for the government.
One of my favorite bits of code that doesn't involve a Byzantine setup to explain:
if (someConditionIsMet) {
// set the member variable here
}
That made it all the way to QA before I reported the rather amusing bug it introduced.
That's what you get working for the private sector.
Originally posted by synp
I think that plane flipping over story is an urban legend.
It's not. But... the urban legend is an exaggeration. It happened in a *simulator* at Evans & Sutherland, where I worked. It incorporated a simulation of a new guidance system from the Air Force for veracity. The 'engineer' who wrote *our* code hard-coded Northern Hemisphere, and when it got the data from the guidance 'system'...
*FLIP*
The urban legend is that it actually happened in flight.
The pilot didn't care, he had to change his shorts anyway.
Originally posted by Nano
the os wont be 64 bit untill there are more 64 bit processors
Not picking on you, but opinions about when OS X will be 64-bits keep coming up and one thing is never defined. What do you mean by a 64-bit OS? Everyone has something different in mind about what makes an OS 64-bits, but nobody says what it is.
1. The OS is all 64-bit code and will only run 64-bit applications. If old 32-bit applications are run, they requires some kind of emulation to support them.
2. The OS is all 64-bit code but it runs both 32 and 64-bit applications.
3. The OS is a mix of 64 and 32-bit code but all performance critical code is 64-bit and it runs both 32 and 64-bit applications.
4. The OS has the minimum of 64-bit code, but enough to fully support all 64-bit applications. It runs both 32 and 64-bit applications with no significant performance hit, but the OS itself may not be running at top efficiency.
5. The OS runs 32-bit application but there is not complete support for 64-bit applications.
I believe Panther will be at level 4, and eventually it will move to level 3 or 2 and stay there. I personally would say that anything at level 4 or higher is 64-bit. You may say something different.