the local CBS news showed a home video tape from 10 years ago. at a birthday party weller actaully drove his car over a small stone ledge/fence. made a serious mess to his car but no one was hurt.
i think that's what's going to push this into a full blown court case...
ps. i say we keep 16 year olds from behind the wheel as well~
If a 16 year old ever did this because of their lack of skills as a driver you know they would get charged with something very serious. But if you old then they take your keys away and say to the victims "sorry, he didn't know what he was doing"
the local CBS news showed a home video tape from 10 years ago. at a birthday party weller actaully drove his car over a small stone ledge/fence. made a serious mess to his car but no one was hurt.
Does he live with family? They should have taken his keys away years ago if that's true. Getting a license should be harder in this country, but still, common sense should be able to prevent many of these kinds of accidents. None of my grandparents lived on their own after they reached their 80s...they're like kids at that point and need to be supervised.
Does he live with family? They should have taken his keys away years ago if that's true.
It's a weird situation. I have a grandfather, almost 100 years old, and he keeps passing the test. What can the family do? We could steal his keys, but he bought the car, pays for the insurance, etc. We could just as easily say insurance companies shouldn't be allowed to insure a driver over 70 years old.
But this is America. If you're old and can drive you should be allowed to drive.
The real answer lies in a more accurate driving test, not age legislation. I remember reading about a state (I don't think it was Illinois) that upped its test requirements so that a passing grade was based on a 16 year old's level of education. So many people failed that the state had to drop the age back to 14 years old. Not that a 14 year old could drive, but undereducated people could drive.
So, strengthen the testing and reduce errors and problems.
If a 16 year old ever did this because of their lack of skills as a driver you know they would get charged with something very serious. But if you old then they take your keys away and say to the victims "sorry, he didn't know what he was doing"
Completely true. Double standards suck, ok.
You can treat the elderly like babies, (Oh he didn't know what he's doing, im sure he is sorry) but babies don't drive cars. He should spend the rest of his days in a cell.
Driving tests do nothing. I had a relative that has worked at the DMV most of her life and can tell you tests are very lax. For just about everything, not just follow-up tests.
And don't think I'm hard just on the elderly. Drunk drivers should also pay a much higher price then they do now.
This guy's already in a cell for the rest of his life. Obviously he should never be behind the wheel again and his insurance company should pay out the wazoo to the victims (someone might as well take their money -- insurance companies are the biggest scam on the planet)...but can you imagine the guilt this guy must have? If I were him, I probably would've already slit my wrists.
Time and again, this sort of "out of control" scenario is being played out on our roads to deadly effect.
So many times we hear of people mistaking the brake for the accelerator...
And the thing is no one seems to realise that the real root of the problem lies in how car controls are laid out.
The universally accepted combination of brake & accelerator pedals side by side along with clutch have remained the same for nearly one hundred years.
Yet people who study these things (ergonomists) and psychologists can tell you that the level of motor skills needed for this sort of layout is very high & very complex in terms of co-ordinating feet and hands.
It is about time car designers recognised these issues & brought the whole system into the 21st Century.
For a start..all of us have been in emergency braking situations. Our instinct is to grip the steering wheel tightly. So why don't car designers utilise that to put brake sensors into steering wheels ?
Or better still..get rid of the steering wheel altogether and use a steering column similar to that of motor bike handle bars with brake levers.
( Ferrari already does something like this in Formula one )
This single step, ( putting brake grip/handles on steering collumn ) would go a long way towards reducing the carnage on the roads..
In Indiana there is some sort of law for that. My grandpa who is 80 this last year had to take what I *think* is a test for every 10 years for over the age of 60. But don't quote me on this, I am not sure of the specifics or if that is the length of time it is. Anyways, very very sad.
I'm fairly certain that those tests are volunteer.
And Eugene, read the rest of his post. I'm sure that man will never see the inside of a prison for this accident (as it clearly was one), but he will be tortured for the rest of his life. Put yourself in his shoes... you accidentally kill ten people in a terrible car crash. That has got to be terrible... I don't think I would need jail time to tell me that I did something wrong, and to keep me from doing it again. That is the basic goal of our penal system, whether you think it works or not.
All this bitching about old people this and old people that. When really, the population over 60 can't be responsible for very many car crashes.
YES DAMMIT! ALL UR GRANPAS ARE BELONG IN JAIL. [/sorry]
Also note that the population decreases as you increase the age. That means that even though the 'per capita' rate increases slightly at 70, I doubt the actual numbers would increase simply because there are so many fewer drivers at that age.
Changing the topic slightly, I think that drunk driving really should be enforced more than speeding.
the tests never tell it all. in many parts of europe, you get the drivers licence when you are 18 (or when you take the 1st test) + 2 years old UNTILL you are 70 years old wioth O N E T E S T. whatever you change between that. untreated diabetes, EDs, failing kidneys etc, (which can cause a dramatic sugar level drop (you faint out for no reason if you do anything) ... untill you are 70 you are "ok". then after one test, you are ok untill you are 80 ...
if you knew i'd lose my consciousness without really warnings before, would you let me drive? if i passed my second licence (permanent one) i am in most caces allowed to (unless REALLY specifically otherwise stated) drive untlll i am 70 ... would you still feel ok? i'm not telling it's specifically ME (just whoever). does it feel safe? if you faint ONCE for no reason it does feel even less safe. and i'm not specific at all for location. MANY parts of europe. USA etc allow a person to get licence when 16/18 (+2) years untill 70 years with ONE licence and test ... \
I figured it might be a metaphor. The way Moogs put it, the metaphor came before the context.
Quote:
Also note that the population decreases as you increase the age. That means that even though the 'per capita' rate increases slightly at 70, I doubt the actual numbers would increase simply because there are so many fewer drivers at that age.
Changing the topic slightly, I think that drunk driving really should be enforced more than speeding.
This was the gist of my reply to Moogs. It's just not that common a problem to justify such testing when deadly accidents are much more common down the age ladder. If they're going to reform the system, young inexperienced drivers and DUI cases should take priority.
This could still happen to young people or those without medical conditions. Drastic preemptive measures against the elderly aren't going to stop drunk drivers or people who fall asleep at the wheel. I have a 90 year old grandfather who is sharp both physically and mentally. He could have a stroke or heart attack just like that, but so could a 40 year old man who eats a lot of fast food.
I'm talking about the level of risk of a certain demographic of drivers. I agree that this could happen to anybody behind the wheel but there is an increased risk with the elderly. Just as there is an increased risk with teenage males.
Just target high-risk drivers, revoke more licences, impose heftier fines. This guy had already crashed his car before, perhaps his family or his doctor should have done something to stop this from happening again. Someone has to be accountable for this and it's not necessarily the old guy. His family allowed him to drive, so did his doctor, so did the DMV. Maybe his insurance company should've stopped his coverage.
If all efforts had been exhausted to keep him from driving and he had still made the choice to drive then the fault would lie solely on him.
bauman your stats may not be correct. It's normalized for number of drivers (100,000) but it may be better for number of miles driven.
Ok. Here is a very thorough article by the NHTSA that has the info you are looking for. VMT stands for Vehicle Miles Travelled.
Here are the graphs of interest:
I think that should show that the elderly aren't much of a risk to society... definitely better drivers than teens are.
Also of note... the Male/Female distinction comes out in the wash when you go by number of miles travelled. I knew males were in more crashes, but it makes sense when those two graphs are side by side.
>>man plowed his car through the two blocks of this busy farmers market on Arizona Avenue today. So far, there are 8 dead and up to 50 injured. One of the dead is 2 year old.
I can't imagine losing a loved one in an accident like this. The relatives of the dead must be devastated.
For me, it's another proof that there can't be a god. What f*cking creator would let things like that happen? It simply doesn't make sense. And don't tell me that those dead people were called by God to "serve a better purpose". That's just bullsh*t.
I'm sorry for the families. It wasn't destiny, just bad luck.
>>man plowed his car through the two blocks of this busy farmers market on Arizona Avenue today. So far, there are 8 dead and up to 50 injured. One of the dead is 2 year old.
I can't imagine losing a loved one in an accident like this. The relatives of the dead must be devastated.
For me, it's another proof that there can't be a god. What f*cking creator would let things like that happen? It simply doesn't make sense. And don't tell me that those dead people were called by God to "serve a better purpose". That's just bullsh*t.
I'm sorry for the families. It wasn't destiny, just bad luck.
Comments
i think that's what's going to push this into a full blown court case...
ps. i say we keep 16 year olds from behind the wheel as well~
Originally posted by keyboardf12
the local CBS news showed a home video tape from 10 years ago. at a birthday party weller actaully drove his car over a small stone ledge/fence. made a serious mess to his car but no one was hurt.
Does he live with family? They should have taken his keys away years ago if that's true. Getting a license should be harder in this country, but still, common sense should be able to prevent many of these kinds of accidents. None of my grandparents lived on their own after they reached their 80s...they're like kids at that point and need to be supervised.
they haven't said when/if his last drivers test was i don't think.
Originally posted by Eugene
Does he live with family? They should have taken his keys away years ago if that's true.
It's a weird situation. I have a grandfather, almost 100 years old, and he keeps passing the test. What can the family do? We could steal his keys, but he bought the car, pays for the insurance, etc. We could just as easily say insurance companies shouldn't be allowed to insure a driver over 70 years old.
But this is America. If you're old and can drive you should be allowed to drive.
The real answer lies in a more accurate driving test, not age legislation. I remember reading about a state (I don't think it was Illinois) that upped its test requirements so that a passing grade was based on a 16 year old's level of education. So many people failed that the state had to drop the age back to 14 years old. Not that a 14 year old could drive, but undereducated people could drive.
So, strengthen the testing and reduce errors and problems.
Originally posted by Scott
If a 16 year old ever did this because of their lack of skills as a driver you know they would get charged with something very serious. But if you old then they take your keys away and say to the victims "sorry, he didn't know what he was doing"
Completely true. Double standards suck, ok.
You can treat the elderly like babies, (Oh he didn't know what he's doing, im sure he is sorry) but babies don't drive cars. He should spend the rest of his days in a cell.
Driving tests do nothing. I had a relative that has worked at the DMV most of her life and can tell you tests are very lax. For just about everything, not just follow-up tests.
And don't think I'm hard just on the elderly. Drunk drivers should also pay a much higher price then they do now.
Originally posted by Moogs
This guy's already in a cell for the rest of his life
I bet you a shiny penny this won't happen.
So many times we hear of people mistaking the brake for the accelerator...
And the thing is no one seems to realise that the real root of the problem lies in how car controls are laid out.
The universally accepted combination of brake & accelerator pedals side by side along with clutch have remained the same for nearly one hundred years.
Yet people who study these things (ergonomists) and psychologists can tell you that the level of motor skills needed for this sort of layout is very high & very complex in terms of co-ordinating feet and hands.
It is about time car designers recognised these issues & brought the whole system into the 21st Century.
For a start..all of us have been in emergency braking situations. Our instinct is to grip the steering wheel tightly. So why don't car designers utilise that to put brake sensors into steering wheels ?
Or better still..get rid of the steering wheel altogether and use a steering column similar to that of motor bike handle bars with brake levers.
( Ferrari already does something like this in Formula one )
This single step, ( putting brake grip/handles on steering collumn ) would go a long way towards reducing the carnage on the roads..
Originally posted by Jeremiah Rich
In Indiana there is some sort of law for that. My grandpa who is 80 this last year had to take what I *think* is a test for every 10 years for over the age of 60. But don't quote me on this, I am not sure of the specifics or if that is the length of time it is. Anyways, very very sad.
I'm fairly certain that those tests are volunteer.
And Eugene, read the rest of his post. I'm sure that man will never see the inside of a prison for this accident (as it clearly was one), but he will be tortured for the rest of his life. Put yourself in his shoes... you accidentally kill ten people in a terrible car crash. That has got to be terrible... I don't think I would need jail time to tell me that I did something wrong, and to keep me from doing it again. That is the basic goal of our penal system, whether you think it works or not.
All this bitching about old people this and old people that. When really, the population over 60 can't be responsible for very many car crashes.
Here you go, straight from the Norfolk District Attorny:
Age of Driver Deaths per 100,000 Drivers
16-20 61.33
21-24 46.35
25-34 32.90
35-44 26.52
45-54 23.32
55-64 21.55
65-69 20.57
over 69 28.08
YES DAMMIT! ALL UR GRANPAS ARE BELONG IN JAIL. [/sorry]
Also note that the population decreases as you increase the age. That means that even though the 'per capita' rate increases slightly at 70, I doubt the actual numbers would increase simply because there are so many fewer drivers at that age.
Changing the topic slightly, I think that drunk driving really should be enforced more than speeding.
if you knew i'd lose my consciousness without really warnings before, would you let me drive? if i passed my second licence (permanent one) i am in most caces allowed to (unless REALLY specifically otherwise stated) drive untlll i am 70 ... would you still feel ok? i'm not telling it's specifically ME (just whoever). does it feel safe? if you faint ONCE for no reason it does feel even less safe. and i'm not specific at all for location. MANY parts of europe. USA etc allow a person to get licence when 16/18 (+2) years untill 70 years with ONE licence and test ...
Originally posted by bauman
And Eugene, read the rest of his post.
I figured it might be a metaphor. The way Moogs put it, the metaphor came before the context.
Also note that the population decreases as you increase the age. That means that even though the 'per capita' rate increases slightly at 70, I doubt the actual numbers would increase simply because there are so many fewer drivers at that age.
Changing the topic slightly, I think that drunk driving really should be enforced more than speeding.
This was the gist of my reply to Moogs. It's just not that common a problem to justify such testing when deadly accidents are much more common down the age ladder. If they're going to reform the system, young inexperienced drivers and DUI cases should take priority.
Originally posted by Eugene
This could still happen to young people or those without medical conditions. Drastic preemptive measures against the elderly aren't going to stop drunk drivers or people who fall asleep at the wheel. I have a 90 year old grandfather who is sharp both physically and mentally. He could have a stroke or heart attack just like that, but so could a 40 year old man who eats a lot of fast food.
I'm talking about the level of risk of a certain demographic of drivers. I agree that this could happen to anybody behind the wheel but there is an increased risk with the elderly. Just as there is an increased risk with teenage males.
Just target high-risk drivers, revoke more licences, impose heftier fines. This guy had already crashed his car before, perhaps his family or his doctor should have done something to stop this from happening again. Someone has to be accountable for this and it's not necessarily the old guy. His family allowed him to drive, so did his doctor, so did the DMV. Maybe his insurance company should've stopped his coverage.
If all efforts had been exhausted to keep him from driving and he had still made the choice to drive then the fault would lie solely on him.
I still think we should keep those medling 16year olds off the road though!
Originally posted by Scott
bauman your stats may not be correct. It's normalized for number of drivers (100,000) but it may be better for number of miles driven.
Ok. Here is a very thorough article by the NHTSA that has the info you are looking for. VMT stands for Vehicle Miles Travelled.
Here are the graphs of interest:
I think that should show that the elderly aren't much of a risk to society... definitely better drivers than teens are.
Also of note... the Male/Female distinction comes out in the wash when you go by number of miles travelled. I knew males were in more crashes, but it makes sense when those two graphs are side by side.
I can't imagine losing a loved one in an accident like this. The relatives of the dead must be devastated.
For me, it's another proof that there can't be a god. What f*cking creator would let things like that happen? It simply doesn't make sense. And don't tell me that those dead people were called by God to "serve a better purpose". That's just bullsh*t.
I'm sorry for the families. It wasn't destiny, just bad luck.
Originally posted by lolo
>>man plowed his car through the two blocks of this busy farmers market on Arizona Avenue today. So far, there are 8 dead and up to 50 injured. One of the dead is 2 year old.
I can't imagine losing a loved one in an accident like this. The relatives of the dead must be devastated.
For me, it's another proof that there can't be a god. What f*cking creator would let things like that happen? It simply doesn't make sense. And don't tell me that those dead people were called by God to "serve a better purpose". That's just bullsh*t.
I'm sorry for the families. It wasn't destiny, just bad luck.
how can God watch over every single person?
Originally posted by lolo
*just discovered Robert Anton Wilson*
Even if I did believe in God, your argument against the fact is overused and boring. Try again when you can exclude 'teen' from your age.
Nevermind. I keep forgetting who I'm talking to.
I feel like a million years old.