<strong>And a whole lot of paranoia to boot.</strong><hr></blockquote>
For you maybe. I'd happily "take the risk". If you back up like you're supposed to, have insurance on the thing and use common sense, chances are you have nothing to be paranoid about.
[quote]<strong>There will always be a market for EXPANDABLE AND UPGRADEABLE, and AFFORDABLE, boxes to use either as home servers or workstations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No one is saying there isn't. However, they just might not be from Apple, that's all. A switch might be in store for you, my man.
After a point, when you're not getting what you want or need (or expect), it might be time to look elsewhere, at another company?
Yeah, I wasn't really on it like that, Scates. More like: I haven't even got this book yet but I'm already obsessing about a bag/sleeve that will let me keep it basically attached to my body all day long. I can't imagine leaving it anywhere at work, though no one would steal it, I hope; or leaving it in my car, NO WAY; or definitely not at the library/university. Im like a chick obsessively clinging to her bag and the damn thing won't be here for at least a couple of weeks.
They should make those things like you see high-end couriers use: some long handcuff thing attached to a case, then the case is on a tether, strapped around your waist.
"You take my laptop, you take me with it, pal!"
That's the one issue (theft) that, unfortunately, comes into the picture when you go with a laptop...especially one as gorgeous, small and light as the new 12" PowerBook.
I'm jealous that you're getting one. Post lots of cool photos and get ready to answer a gazillion questions about it!
Yes, theft is a serious concern for any laptop owner. If you're going to go anywhere public, be sure to buy a Kensington security cable to lock it down with anytime you're not physically at it. Not perfect, but at least it's a deterrent, and they'd need a pair of bolt-cutters or a hacksaw to get your machine (without breaking the case, anyway).
So the question remains, where does the iBook fit in?
I disagree with the poster who mentioned the birth of the 12 inch AlBook could mean the death of the iBook.
Obviously, the iBook will have to get an upgraded processor (read: G4) *someday.* Until then, (and even when that day comes), I can see minor speed bumps but most importantly, price drops. Yes, I believe Apple will, and wisely should, drop the price of the low-end iBook even more than $999.
An ultra-cheap iBook has several advantages, namely:
1) Since performance would be so much less than powerbooks or even other iBooks, a $600-$800 iBook would pose no "cannibalization" threat to the other product line, and would...
2) Introduce a whole new market to the Mac. Apple knows that students, young and teen-twenties, are a valuable target market- they'll become the next generation of die-hard Mac users. I know I have...
<strong> Introduce a whole new market to the Mac. Apple knows that students, young and teen-twenties, are a valuable target market- they'll become the next generation of die-hard Mac users. I know I have...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I totally agree. All of my friends at university love to dump all over the Mac, but they've completely fallen in love with my iBook, even the folks I know in engineering who love to talk about the 3.06 Ghz HT P4 can't peel themselves away from it. They all tell me they'd love to get one but it's purely a matter of cost. If Apple positioned the iBook where it positions (positioned?) the G3 iMac, at a price point of ~$799, I'm sure they'd net alot of people like my friends who are still unsure about getting one.
The iBook still has a lot going for it, and I'm sure it won't die because of the 12" PB G4. For starters, I'm sure that despite the new Aluminum enclosure, it still won't be as rugged as an iBook.
I know that not too many people have said it but for those who have, how can anyone say that the 17" powerbook should/could/will replace the iMac? IMO, until lapzilla's price tag loses some weight (to the tune of $1400) it will NEVER be a suitable replacement for an iMac.
Except for price, it already is, and then some. I know I would never buy an AIO over a laptop. Ergonomic objections are easily dismissed with a hundred bucks worth of stand, keyboard and mouse. Sure AIO can be a little faster for a lot less right now, but if trends continue, it won't matter, laptops will reach a price performance level where they're just more attractive than an AIO unit. Expandable towers/boxen/cubes/headless computers? Completely different, they'll continue to have a reason to exist, but I just see laptops attracting more consumers, students, and business people than will want AIO's in the comming years.
Matsu has some milelage with his 'laptop' only future argument.
As always. It would be the 'timing' of such a move.
We've already seen laptop sales go increasingly upwards. If Apple are saying 50% in a few years, I'd pay attention. They nailed the lack of floppy and 'death of crt' and the 'PDAs' are pants arguments.
Laptop for the future. Well, I'd see at least a 50% role.
What's stopping them from overtaking desktops in significance. Performance.
But with THAT 17 inch bump. Less so.
Height ergonomics..? Stand.
Keyboard/display rigidy? Detachable?
Look at it now.
Apple's iBook is £795 including VAT in the UK! Are you gonna buy that or the iMac G3 with inferior specs for a hundred less?
Exactly.
There aren't many design hurdles for the laptop to overcome.
If you needed more power...perhaps you'd plug it into a docking station or an X-grid?
However, I don't want to see the ridding of my beloved iMac flat or 'power'Mac desktops just yet, thanks. I like their form factor...
i hope, this is one area where apple has always succeeded, and it looks like times aren't a'changing anytime soon
...god bless apple for their innovative laptops, a friend of mine uses a PC and he said his next desktop will be a PC, but if u ask him if he were to get a laptop what he would get, he wouldn't recommend anything other then a mac
<strong>Matsu has some milelage with his 'laptop' only future argument.
Laptop for the future. Well, I'd see at least a 50% role.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I do remember back in the '80s when Steve was around at Apple he did envision a future where a laptop Mac would represent not just the future of Apple, but the future of computing...at least that's what I remember reading in "AppleDesign". That's why he agressively pushed his "Mac in a Book by 1986" ideal. Perhaps now that he's back, and in a position of greater power than he had before, he can now truly finish what he started. (Turning Apple into a laptop/portables-only company??? It's crazy enough that Steve would try it--and would probably pull it off, too. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> )
I don't know about you, but my eyes usually get pretty fatigued after using laptop quality LCDs. As long as it's cheaper to build better, slightly larger desktop versions of portable-esque PCs, there will be a market for them. Would I buy an iMac over a PowerBook to place in a study, on a kitchen counter-top, in family room? You bet. They mesh better as solid, stationary fixtures in their surroundings. The components are better and cheaper.
Apple and Steve are not planning to move to an all laptop line anytime soon if ever. There will always be a market for desktops simply because of the size that new technologies will need to fit in an enclosure larger than a book. Steve also said he thinks Apple's sales of laptops will be 35% of all of their computer sales this year...only a 3% jump over 2002. If Apple's 2003 is the year of the laptop then 2% growth in that sector of their business isnt really astounding. Going at 3% a year it will take about 6 years for the notebooks to reach 50% of Apple's computer sales.
You're right of course, for now, and probably for the future too, but the gap keeps slowly shrinking, or even if it doesn't exactly shrink, it becomes less important. Will display quality matter to most when laptop displays are 10 better than today? Even if they aren't quite as good as desktop displays, fewer people will be able to see a difference. Same with speed. We still need it today, and will also ned it in the future. But if for 99% of the tasks you do a laptop is within a fraction of a percent of a desktop, will most consumers notice?
I think expansion and easy upgradeability are the only things you'd notice. Drives especially. drop in a cheap HDD or three to make a home A/V server. upgrade your optical to the latest standard DVD-A/V, HD-DVD, whatever comes out next. Mebbe swap out the sound card to match, or the drop in a card for the latest I/O compliance, firewire XYZ, etc etc. Quality and price differences between laptops and desktops are shrinking all the time.
<strong>You're right of course, for now, and probably for the future too, but the gap keeps slowly shrinking, or even if it doesn't exactly shrink, it becomes less important. Will display quality matter to most when laptop displays are 10 better than today? Even if they aren't quite as good as desktop displays, fewer people will be able to see a difference. Same with speed. We still need it today, and will also ned it in the future. But if for 99% of the tasks you do a laptop is within a fraction of a percent of a desktop, will most consumers notice?
I think expansion and easy upgradeability are the only things you'd notice. Drives especially. drop in a cheap HDD or three to make a home A/V server. upgrade your optical to the latest standard DVD-A/V, HD-DVD, whatever comes out next. Mebbe swap out the sound card to match, or the drop in a card for the latest I/O compliance, firewire XYZ, etc etc. Quality and price differences between laptops and desktops are shrinking all the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>I've thought long and hard before contributing to this discussion and I've decided that I don't agree the with vision of a laptop only future. There are a number of reasons why desktop computers will never be replaced by laptops.
First of all, ergonomics is not to be underestimated. Stands, arms, and other furniture or equipment, do a decent job of screen and keyboard placement. However, these workstations are still less ergonomic than what is accomplished by hardware specifically designed for the task. If you've ever had severe back, neck, wrist, elbow, or shoulder issues from prolonged computer use, ergonomics becomes your ONLY concern.
This is closely linked to my second point. Screens are approaching price points where average users can afford lcd displays larger than what is reasonable to carry around in a laptop. Thus, if you value screen size over portability, laptops are not the solution. While external displays can be connected to laptops, the consumer would be paying for two displays. Many people would rather spend that money on a still larger display.
A similar situation exists for keyboards and pointing devices. Laptop keyboards and trackpads are never as cheap, ergonomic, or as complete as desktop keyboards. Once again, while desktop peripherals can be connected to a laptop, this still means the consumer has to buy two sets of hardware instead of one.
Displays and input devices are very important to some users and especially older users. People with poor vision or arthritis will desire the largest affordable display and most easily controlled/used input devices. It is important to realize that we're just now getting our first wave of elderly computer users. This is not a small percentage of the population!
Finally, some people do not value portability at all and a few actually prefer non-portable computers. That's right, some people do not want a portable computer simply because it IS portable. Here are two examples of these types of consumers.
Many businesses like to maintain strict control of who has access to company data. Almost not business wants its payroll information to made public, or human-resource files, or performance reviews, or technical drawings... If companies put laptops on everyone's desk, we'd have a massive problem with assuring that computers stayed at work instead of going home for nightly web browsing or a child's science report. It is just simpler for these businesses to have machines that can't be carried out in a briefcase.
Two, something recently lost, especially in the American culture, is the separation of work and leisure. People are no longer leaving work at the workplace, taking it everywhere along with mobile phones and a pile of work related papers. It is yet to be seen if this is a permanent trend or just a mis-step in the adoption of information-age devices. Many reformed workaholics actually take measures like turning off phones during dinner and removing computers from home living areas. I used to have a computer in my living room but removed it. Simple its availability changed the way people socialize when they visit me.
These are the reasons why laptops will never completely replace desktops. Both forms have distinct applications for which the other is no substitute.
Desktops will get smaller but they'll not go away in the long term. Apple and other PC manufacturers can shrink the size of their computers by using smaller and thinner drives, thinner optical drives, new expansion slots like PCI-Express that use smaller and shorter cards, more options on the motherboard so you need less expansion slots, cooler chips that need less active cooling so you waste less space on noisy fans, etc. Apple had the right idea with the cube, but it was priced wrong. i think they should give it another go, this time with modern parts and see where it takes them.
Nobody seems to have picked up that Jobs said "Portables" not "Laptops". There is quite a distinction as portables includes Notebooks, Tablets, PDAs and even small AIOs.
<strong>Nobody seems to have picked up that Jobs said "Portables" not "Laptops". There is quite a distinction as portables includes Notebooks, Tablets, PDAs and even small AIOs.</strong><hr></blockquote>Interesting... anyone wanna do the leg-work to check what word he's used in previous years?
Comments
<strong>And a whole lot of paranoia to boot.</strong><hr></blockquote>
For you maybe. I'd happily "take the risk". If you back up like you're supposed to, have insurance on the thing and use common sense, chances are you have nothing to be paranoid about.
[quote]<strong>There will always be a market for EXPANDABLE AND UPGRADEABLE, and AFFORDABLE, boxes to use either as home servers or workstations.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No one is saying there isn't. However, they just might not be from Apple, that's all. A switch might be in store for you, my man.
After a point, when you're not getting what you want or need (or expect), it might be time to look elsewhere, at another company?
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
"You take my laptop, you take me with it, pal!"
That's the one issue (theft) that, unfortunately, comes into the picture when you go with a laptop...especially one as gorgeous, small and light as the new 12" PowerBook.
I'm jealous that you're getting one. Post lots of cool photos and get ready to answer a gazillion questions about it!
I disagree with the poster who mentioned the birth of the 12 inch AlBook could mean the death of the iBook.
Obviously, the iBook will have to get an upgraded processor (read: G4) *someday.* Until then, (and even when that day comes), I can see minor speed bumps but most importantly, price drops. Yes, I believe Apple will, and wisely should, drop the price of the low-end iBook even more than $999.
An ultra-cheap iBook has several advantages, namely:
1) Since performance would be so much less than powerbooks or even other iBooks, a $600-$800 iBook would pose no "cannibalization" threat to the other product line, and would...
2) Introduce a whole new market to the Mac. Apple knows that students, young and teen-twenties, are a valuable target market- they'll become the next generation of die-hard Mac users. I know I have...
Dangerous. Joe Dangerous.
<strong> Introduce a whole new market to the Mac. Apple knows that students, young and teen-twenties, are a valuable target market- they'll become the next generation of die-hard Mac users. I know I have...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I totally agree. All of my friends at university love to dump all over the Mac, but they've completely fallen in love with my iBook, even the folks I know in engineering who love to talk about the 3.06 Ghz HT P4 can't peel themselves away from it. They all tell me they'd love to get one but it's purely a matter of cost. If Apple positioned the iBook where it positions (positioned?) the G3 iMac, at a price point of ~$799, I'm sure they'd net alot of people like my friends who are still unsure about getting one.
The iBook still has a lot going for it, and I'm sure it won't die because of the 12" PB G4. For starters, I'm sure that despite the new Aluminum enclosure, it still won't be as rugged as an iBook.
<strong>For starters, I'm sure that despite the new Aluminum enclosure, it still won't be as rugged as an iBook.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not sure about that.
The iBook scratches pretty easily but we'll probably get a better idea of the Powerbook's durability once they're used in real world situations.
As always. It would be the 'timing' of such a move.
We've already seen laptop sales go increasingly upwards. If Apple are saying 50% in a few years, I'd pay attention. They nailed the lack of floppy and 'death of crt' and the 'PDAs' are pants arguments.
Laptop for the future. Well, I'd see at least a 50% role.
What's stopping them from overtaking desktops in significance. Performance.
But with THAT 17 inch bump. Less so.
Height ergonomics..? Stand.
Keyboard/display rigidy? Detachable?
Look at it now.
Apple's iBook is £795 including VAT in the UK! Are you gonna buy that or the iMac G3 with inferior specs for a hundred less?
Exactly.
There aren't many design hurdles for the laptop to overcome.
If you needed more power...perhaps you'd plug it into a docking station or an X-grid?
However, I don't want to see the ridding of my beloved iMac flat or 'power'Mac desktops just yet, thanks. I like their form factor...
Thoughtfully yours,
Lemon Bon Bon
...god bless apple for their innovative laptops, a friend of mine uses a PC and he said his next desktop will be a PC, but if u ask him if he were to get a laptop what he would get, he wouldn't recommend anything other then a mac
<strong>Matsu has some milelage with his 'laptop' only future argument.
Laptop for the future. Well, I'd see at least a 50% role.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I do remember back in the '80s when Steve was around at Apple he did envision a future where a laptop Mac would represent not just the future of Apple, but the future of computing...at least that's what I remember reading in "AppleDesign". That's why he agressively pushed his "Mac in a Book by 1986" ideal. Perhaps now that he's back, and in a position of greater power than he had before, he can now truly finish what he started. (Turning Apple into a laptop/portables-only company??? It's crazy enough that Steve would try it--and would probably pull it off, too. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> )
I think expansion and easy upgradeability are the only things you'd notice. Drives especially. drop in a cheap HDD or three to make a home A/V server. upgrade your optical to the latest standard DVD-A/V, HD-DVD, whatever comes out next. Mebbe swap out the sound card to match, or the drop in a card for the latest I/O compliance, firewire XYZ, etc etc. Quality and price differences between laptops and desktops are shrinking all the time.
<strong>You're right of course, for now, and probably for the future too, but the gap keeps slowly shrinking, or even if it doesn't exactly shrink, it becomes less important. Will display quality matter to most when laptop displays are 10 better than today? Even if they aren't quite as good as desktop displays, fewer people will be able to see a difference. Same with speed. We still need it today, and will also ned it in the future. But if for 99% of the tasks you do a laptop is within a fraction of a percent of a desktop, will most consumers notice?
I think expansion and easy upgradeability are the only things you'd notice. Drives especially. drop in a cheap HDD or three to make a home A/V server. upgrade your optical to the latest standard DVD-A/V, HD-DVD, whatever comes out next. Mebbe swap out the sound card to match, or the drop in a card for the latest I/O compliance, firewire XYZ, etc etc. Quality and price differences between laptops and desktops are shrinking all the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>I've thought long and hard before contributing to this discussion and I've decided that I don't agree the with vision of a laptop only future. There are a number of reasons why desktop computers will never be replaced by laptops.
First of all, ergonomics is not to be underestimated. Stands, arms, and other furniture or equipment, do a decent job of screen and keyboard placement. However, these workstations are still less ergonomic than what is accomplished by hardware specifically designed for the task. If you've ever had severe back, neck, wrist, elbow, or shoulder issues from prolonged computer use, ergonomics becomes your ONLY concern.
This is closely linked to my second point. Screens are approaching price points where average users can afford lcd displays larger than what is reasonable to carry around in a laptop. Thus, if you value screen size over portability, laptops are not the solution. While external displays can be connected to laptops, the consumer would be paying for two displays. Many people would rather spend that money on a still larger display.
A similar situation exists for keyboards and pointing devices. Laptop keyboards and trackpads are never as cheap, ergonomic, or as complete as desktop keyboards. Once again, while desktop peripherals can be connected to a laptop, this still means the consumer has to buy two sets of hardware instead of one.
Displays and input devices are very important to some users and especially older users. People with poor vision or arthritis will desire the largest affordable display and most easily controlled/used input devices. It is important to realize that we're just now getting our first wave of elderly computer users. This is not a small percentage of the population!
Finally, some people do not value portability at all and a few actually prefer non-portable computers. That's right, some people do not want a portable computer simply because it IS portable. Here are two examples of these types of consumers.
Many businesses like to maintain strict control of who has access to company data. Almost not business wants its payroll information to made public, or human-resource files, or performance reviews, or technical drawings... If companies put laptops on everyone's desk, we'd have a massive problem with assuring that computers stayed at work instead of going home for nightly web browsing or a child's science report. It is just simpler for these businesses to have machines that can't be carried out in a briefcase.
Two, something recently lost, especially in the American culture, is the separation of work and leisure. People are no longer leaving work at the workplace, taking it everywhere along with mobile phones and a pile of work related papers. It is yet to be seen if this is a permanent trend or just a mis-step in the adoption of information-age devices. Many reformed workaholics actually take measures like turning off phones during dinner and removing computers from home living areas. I used to have a computer in my living room but removed it. Simple its availability changed the way people socialize when they visit me.
These are the reasons why laptops will never completely replace desktops. Both forms have distinct applications for which the other is no substitute.
[ 01-13-2003: Message edited by: dfiler ]</p>
<strong>Nobody seems to have picked up that Jobs said "Portables" not "Laptops". There is quite a distinction as portables includes Notebooks, Tablets, PDAs and even small AIOs.</strong><hr></blockquote>Interesting... anyone wanna do the leg-work to check what word he's used in previous years?